Help with BP Rehab Estimator

New to Real Estate · Member since 2022 · 147 posts · 120 votes

I am doing research to prepare for my BRRRR endeavors and will also just about start J. Scotts books on the topic. I came across the BiggerPockets Rehab Estimator and tried to use it on a random property in Ohio. There are a couple things I am a little confused about.

The first is that it estimates a total of $2784 for flooring for a 980 sqft house. I am no expert on flooring but that sounds like its barely enough for the material?

The second thing is, one of the first questions is how many ft of counters, which I put 14 for. But then under the kitchen category there is counters as well? So what are these counters for then?

Here is the link of the report: https://drive.google.com/file/...

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David RobertsonBusiness Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 758 posts · 780 votes

Here's the problem with estimating tools that "estimate for you"....if you are using this tool you have no idea how any of these prices are being calculated and most of the calculations are wrong.

I tried out the new BP "Rehab Estimator tool" and it looks like you have zero control over the cost of anything. All of the prices are provided by "Kukun" with no ability to customize the pricing or use your own prices.

Every investor across the nation should have their own pricing sheet that they use that uses their specific materials and labor prices from their local contractors. You should not be using some else's prices (or Kukun's algorithm), you should be using your own prices from your local contractors and using the specific material selections you picked for your project.

Here's an example of how bad some of the data is in Kukun and why it's not practical for investors that are wanting to create accurate estimates for their projects:

I just added "Exterior Doors" to my project, and I was told that 4 single doors and 1 double door is $59,352 in Kansas City, MO which is 20x what I would actually pay as an investor.

You don't need a fancy algorithm to tell you what something costs, you need to know basic math and have a general understanding of how much materials cost and what contractors charge for specific repairs.

If I have 5 exterior doors I need replaced (4 single entry doors, 1 french patio) this is how I would estimate the costs:

- Single exterior door labor 4 x $250/each = $1,000

- Single door material 4 x $300/each = $1,200

- French patio door labor 1 x $400/each = $400

- French patio door material 1 x $750/each = $750

Total = $3,350

Add 25% profit for your contractor and the quote should be around $5k for 5 doors.

The hard part is finding out what your contractors charge, after that it's just basic math that you can do in a spreadsheet.

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Andy SabischPro Member
Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2021 · 660 posts · 561 votes
4y
First off you need to realize that the numbers in the rehab estimator (and other tools out there) is that the exponential increase in costs is not and really can't unless they have links to pull SKU pricing (which you can do on certain products . . . we did that for items we use and know are fluid in pricing). For things like flooring, if you are going to use Home Depot, Lowe's, Lumber Liquidators (or whatever they are called now), spend a little time and see what the price per ft2 or yd plus installation is . . . you can always override the calculator tool with the current, local prices. The same holds true with labor costs . . . some areas are much higher than others so you really need to feel the local trades out to see what numbers might need to be adjusted.

For the counters, it does not look like you entered something correctly. The detail page for the kitchen shows 17 ft2 which with a standard width works out to be 8.5' long . . . is that correct? Since you have counters in both the bath and kitchen totals, you should not have a separate line item for counters. Go back and take a look at what you entered . . . and watch the prices as we have found you can be in for a shock if you rely on the results without questioning the totals.
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Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
$2784 for flooring of a 980SF home is $2.84 per SF. That seems low even if you use $1 tile or laminate material throughout as the labor will certainly be higher than $2 per SF for install. This is where you need to adjust pricing according to your local costs in these calculators, if not, garbage in, garbage out.
For counter tops, remember those measurements are meant for square footage, not linear footages. Your counter top depth for a kitchen is 2ft so if you have 14 linear feet, you have 28sf. Other countertops would include bath/laundry/bar/misc. These calculators are only as good as the person inputting the correct numbers, otherwise they will be off which defeats the purpose.
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David RobertsonBusiness Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2010 · 758 posts · 780 votes
4y
Here's the problem with estimating tools that "estimate for you"....if you are using this tool you have no idea how any of these prices are being calculated and most of the calculations are wrong.

I tried out the new BP "Rehab Estimator tool" and it looks like you have zero control over the cost of anything. All of the prices are provided by "Kukun" with no ability to customize the pricing or use your own prices.

Every investor across the nation should have their own pricing sheet that they use that uses their specific materials and labor prices from their local contractors. You should not be using some else's prices (or Kukun's algorithm), you should be using your own prices from your local contractors and using the specific material selections you picked for your project.

Here's an example of how bad some of the data is in Kukun and why it's not practical for investors that are wanting to create accurate estimates for their projects:

I just added "Exterior Doors" to my project, and I was told that 4 single doors and 1 double door is $59,352 in Kansas City, MO which is 20x what I would actually pay as an investor.

You don't need a fancy algorithm to tell you what something costs, you need to know basic math and have a general understanding of how much materials cost and what contractors charge for specific repairs.

If I have 5 exterior doors I need replaced (4 single entry doors, 1 french patio) this is how I would estimate the costs:

- Single exterior door labor 4 x $250/each = $1,000

- Single door material 4 x $300/each = $1,200

- French patio door labor 1 x $400/each = $400

- French patio door material 1 x $750/each = $750

Total = $3,350

Add 25% profit for your contractor and the quote should be around $5k for 5 doors.

The hard part is finding out what your contractors charge, after that it's just basic math that you can do in a spreadsheet.
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Luka Jozic
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New to Real Estate · Member since 2022 · 147 posts · 120 votes
4y
That makes a lot of sense thank you for that response. I guess finding out what they charge in labor costs for certain things is not too difficult. The hard part is figuring out how long it takes.
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Andy SabischPro Member
Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2021 · 660 posts · 561 votes
4y
If you do not have a relationship with a contractor, you are not high on their priority list . . . just a fact of life. You can feel some out for costs and time frame but if you find one that can come right over, there is usually a reason they are not booked. We found that out in the early days and I usually tell people if you find someone that can be right over, keep calling . . if you find one booked, that is often the one you want.
We have a few that we use almost exclusively and now the quality they provide. If we need an estimate for say a roof, I know that when I call they want to keep the relationship going and we get the estimate and gets the job if we get the property. Starting out, we were lucky to get a call back.
As I mentioned before, join your local REIG and see if you can get some contacts that route as the contractors that deal with investors are not always the ones you get referrals from your neighbor

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Bob S.
Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Luka Jozic:

I am doing research to prepare for my BRRRR endeavors and will also just about start J. Scotts books on the topic. I came across the BiggerPockets Rehab Estimator and tried to use it on a random property in Ohio. There are a couple things I am a little confused about.

The first is that it estimates a total of $2784 for flooring for a 980 sqft house. I am no expert on flooring but that sounds like its barely enough for the material?

The second thing is, one of the first questions is how many ft of counters, which I put 14 for. But then under the kitchen category there is counters as well? So what are these counters for then?

Here is the link of the report: https://drive.google.com/file/...

Rehab estimator, really ? You do not need that. All you need is to connect with those doing deals out there and allow them to handle. You will not believe how inexpensive it is to do rent ready properties in Cleveland. You seem to be working to hard, when you should not be so involved
typical prices, install new gas furnace (typical 1200- 1500 sq ft house) $1800, minor spackling, paint entire house, $2500ish, replace countertop, 350ish, NW HW tank , 950 , So this gives you and idea, If you need a new roof, about $280 a sq
Good luck
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