Multi-family Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 4 votes
I am remodeling one apartment in a 4-plex. Each unit has a fireplace, and I would like to eventually remove them all for safety, insurance, and space reasons. This post is meant to seek out thoughts on what to best do with them.
The unit I am working in is below another one, so removing this one probably means that I would need to replace the one above at the same time. I am assuming that the bottom chimney supports the top one, but before doing anything would obviously have a pro come and look.
Another option I am considering is to put an electric 'fake' fireplace inserted where the wood currently goes. Is that a good idea? I would like to know 1) if it would be safe, and 2) if it would just be tacky?
Real Estate Investor · WI · Member since 2013 · 125 posts · 33 votes
12y
Hi Derek, the natural gas fireplace inserts look much better, maybe even luxurious. They are pretty much idiot proof as evidenced by installation in upscale hotel/resort rooms. Use timers. Could be a big attraction to potential renters and a one up on the competition. Of course You'd have to run the gas lines which is not really that bad anymore with the flexible gas pipe.
The fireplace chimneys should be separate thru the chase.
I read Your post and I thought that You should know what I know, and that is sooner or later some one WILL try to start the wood burning fireplace with gasoline, it's only a matter of time. So You're on the right track.
Real Estate Investor · WI · Member since 2013 · 125 posts · 33 votes
12y
Hi Derek, the natural gas fireplace inserts look much better, maybe even luxurious. They are pretty much idiot proof as evidenced by installation in upscale hotel/resort rooms. Use timers. Could be a big attraction to potential renters and a one up on the competition. Of course You'd have to run the gas lines which is not really that bad anymore with the flexible gas pipe.
The fireplace chimneys should be separate thru the chase.
I read Your post and I thought that You should know what I know, and that is sooner or later some one WILL try to start the wood burning fireplace with gasoline, it's only a matter of time. So You're on the right track.
Please get rid of the wood burning fire places if you can and it makes financial sense. The liability and maintenance issues alone should justify removing them. @John Adamkewitz suggestion was a good one.
But whatever you decide replace it with something else.
Aurora, CO · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
I have an electric fireplace at home and I really like it. They don't necessarily look tacky-- I'll admit some of them do! But I love that you can have it on without the heat and get a nice ambiance.
I put an electric "stove" style fire in an old coal fireplace in one of my first rentals, partly to ensure that the tenants didn't try to light a fire there
Multi-family Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 4 votes
12y
Thanks for the quick tips everybody! I had thought about a gas fireplace, but ruled it out because I just assumed it would be too expensive. I definitely like the way they look. That may be a better option than removing the fireplace altogether, although it wouldn't add any extra space to the room.
Do you know if I would need to replace both this one and the fireplace in the unit above at the same time?
Do you know if I would need to replace both this one and the fireplace in the unit above at the same time?
Hey Derek,
I'm not a fireplace expert by any account, BUT I do know that the two fireplaces (one on top of the other) cannot be hooked together because if they were, the lower fireplace could not draft correctly and would smoke out the unit above it, most likely pissing off the upstairs neighbors who now have their living room on fire.
You see what I mean? The answer to the question is no.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Gas inserts require separate gas lines as well as the insert. If you have gas it may be worth it. If you have to use propane think about the setup and how to have each tenant pay their own.
Thanks for the quick tips everybody! I had thought about a gas fireplace, but ruled it out because I just assumed it would be too expensive. I definitely like the way they look. That may be a better option than removing the fireplace altogether, although it wouldn't add any extra space to the room.
Do you know if I would need to replace both this one and the fireplace in the unit above at the same time?
Derek,
The two fireplaces most likely connect to separate flues in the same physical chimney stack {at least you hope they do}. If you are planning to stop-up the lower fireplace - or install a gas or electric insert - you will not need to disturb the fireplace above.
On the other hand, if you want to remove the fireplace(s) entirely, then gravity suggests you start at the top and work your way down :-)
Investor · Norway, ME · Member since 2013 · 27 posts · 16 votes
12y
Hi Derek,
I have a gas fireplace in my rental and it is definitely a big selling point. Gas inserts typically cost between $500-$2500 and installation into an existing masonry fireplace ranges between $500 and $1500. It wouldn't hurt to get someone from a stove shop to come out and give you an estimate. I agree with the other posters above, remove the wood burning fireplaces as it is only a matter of time before someone does something inane.
Multi-family Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 4 votes
12y
@Roy N. - Gravity is my nemesis in this case. :) It would be nice to remove the fireplace entirely, but because of the tenant in the unit above it probably won't work for me at this time.
I think I will get estimates for each (removal or replacement with gas) anyway and go from there. Thanks everyone!
We had a multi-units where each unit had their own propane fireplace. Each tenant had their own propane tank rentals the stank up bottles. The fireplace was the only thing that used propane. some tenants chose not to get the propane so they essentially had decorative fireplaces.
We have removed free standing wood burning stoves from rentals but have never torn out brick/masonry fireplaces and chimneys. That could be very expensive to remove and patch.
I am currently looking to adding a natural gas fireplace to a rental to jazz it up. Gas is already in the unit ans separately metered.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@David Krulac What did that cost you to add? I know the propane can be done but it adds another cost and you need to think about where to put multiple tanks. Here the stove company would put the insert in and the propane company has to add the piping. The propane company also charges tank rental and the low use propane is pricey. I know other parts of the country it is not a big cost. I am leaving some fireplaces as decorative for that reason. I would not recommend to take the units out but weigh the lower cost electric conversion vs. the fact it just doesn't look as good as gas.
I did not add the propane fireplaces, they were there when I bought the building. These were townhouses and each unit had a place for the tank outside their unit, so the tanks were not grouped together.
Yes, propane which is a petroleum by product and is priced closer to oil than natural gas can be pricey. It is much more expensive than natural gas since it is not a by product of natural gas. Compressed natural gas is cheaper than propane but I have not seen fireplaces for CNG yet or individual tanks for CNG.
As I said previously, I would not remove a masonry fireplace and chimney and would expect the costs to be thousands, its not an easy job and the repairs to reframe and drywall the inside and reside the outside are just too costly.
I have removed swimming pools which I consider a hazard in rental properties but not fireplaces.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Here, propane is more expensive then oil if you use a company. Oil you can just call around. Propane you have to contract unless you use a really small tank and take it in for fill yourself. I had propane in PA years ago and it wasn't as big an issue nor was it pricey. they delivered to my 100 lb tanks - no problem. No minimum use A couple of years ago we had a propane fireplace installed. The install of a propane fireplace unit was 300.00, the unit 1000 up, and tank rental 60 a year plus so much gas. times that by 4.
I would agree taking out fireplaces would be expensive. Mostly I have seen people drywall them in and not remove masonry. You don't get the space back though.
Multi-family Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 4 votes
12y
Just wanted to give an update on this - I received quotes to install a gas fireplace, ranging from $2000 - $2500. One of the companies also offered to uninstall the wood fireplace for $125. It turns out that nothing was load-bearing, as the walls were just for decoration and to hide the metal piping.
It took them about 3 hours to remove it, and now I only need to sheet rock the corner! To me, this was the win-win solution: little cost and no more fire hazard.
Eventually, I will do the same in the other units. Thanks again for all the ideas!
Investor · Norway, ME · Member since 2013 · 27 posts · 16 votes
12y
Thanks for the update, @Derek Knorr . I always love it when people provide the conclusion to their problems in the same post they started! I'm glad you were able to find a cost effective solution. In this case it was VERY cost effective!