General Contractor losing money and potentially bailing on the job.

General Contractor losing money and potentially bailing on the job.

Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 57 votes

I have a General Contractor that gave me a bid. We agreed on an Independent Contractor's Agreement, and a Scope of Work. I certainly didn't tell him how much material to use but I stated what needed to be done.

We are about a week away from completion and he is stressed because they are $4500 in the hole. They still have about a week to go with paint, and finishing materials like toilets, vanities, faucets, etc. to finish. I owe him $5,000, but that was supposed to include the carpet which will be roughly $2,000. All in all, he is probably going to be $10,000 in the hole.

He does mostly framing. He was way off on his material cost on the inside work. His work has been great and timely. He has offered to show me his P&L for the job.

2 options I thought of:

1) Work with him a bit. He has done everything he said he would beyond my expectations. I can't see doing anything over $5,000. I based my budget on his bid and he was a little more than another bid from another GC. I'd like to tie this 'bonus' to the sale of the house, but I don't think that will help him, based on what he has told me. I picked this contractor because of his credentials. He will still take a significant loss. He may not accept this and walk off the job...

2) I let him work until he says I can't do it anymore (days) and tell him to abide by the contract or be sued.

I've paid him $41k and he is owed $5k on the last draw (I made the mistake of paying ahead of the agreed upon draw schedule, although I kept him working for a couple more weeks).

Sorry for the long post. This guy and his crew has been great. He's in trouble and I've already helped him in several instances like paying ahead of the draw and letting him use materials from other jobs instead of the ones specified in the scope of work.

Can any experienced rehabbers offer any advice?

Thanks!

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Puyallup, WA · Member since 2013 · 2 posts · 2 votes
12y

I am also a general contractor experienced in rehab work. This field is a different animal than ANY other in construction. If a GC does not know his costs (both materials and labor/subs) he will lose his shorts on a rehab. Margins are very slim with not much room for mistakes. Most guys in construction get caught off guard when entering the rehab world. With that said, find out more about this guy. Is he new to rehabbing? Check references to see if he has gone over budget on a job before. Where is the shortfall on your job - was it his deficiency, or was the scope not detailed enough and he got nickel and dimed to death? He may be similar to me in that he will just absorb costs to make to customer happy (to the detriment to himself). Find out what subs he has used and get proof that they are paid up. Has he taken draws for himself without paying his subs? If so, it says something about his character.

Just keep in mind this point - DO NOT PAY HIM THE FINAL PAYMENT until you have lean releases from him and know that his subcontractors and suppliers are paid in full! In our state, a supplier or subcontractor can place a lien against the property if they have not been paid by the general contractor, EVEN IF THE GENERAL HAS BEEN PAID IN FULL. I am sure you do not want the property encumbered when trying to sell or refi it.

He sounds like he is taking the hit and trying to hold up his side of the agreement. If that is the case, be fair with him - he is a good contractor that you will want to have around. I have been in the same situation and have learned a lot from my mistakes - we all learn from mistakes. But I have also formed great business relationships with investors after working through similar problems such as this. I am not saying he should be paid what he is asking for - just be fair and view this as building relationships, if you see him as a part of your "team" you are building.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Member since 2013 · 866 posts · 487 votes
    12y

    A good GC is worth their weight in gold.

    After auditing the books, I would probably try to work with him assuming it didn't eliminate my ability to make a profit on the deal and I wanted to work with him in the future.

    Honestly though, your biggest risk isn't with the GC, it is with the subs. If he is having financial difficulty and hasn't been paying the subs, they can and will seek their payments from you no matter what your contract with the GC says.

  • Flipper · Irvine, CA · Member since 2013 · 349 posts · 45 votes
    12y

    Do you plan on using him again? I also would go over is numbers, check his receipts, and work with him on the numbers. You said he is doing a great job, you can't expect him to work for a loss.

    If he didn't perform, that would be another story.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    12y

    When honest mistakes are made I try not to take advantage, I'd cover real costs, I don't allow someone to profit, at least the usual profit from their mistakes. I've mentioned before to contractors that the job will be finished, if another contractor has to come in it will cost much more than where we are and that I'd have no choice but to hold them responsible for amounts over their bid. That could put a smallish contractor out of business, in some areas it may be grounds for the loss of a license. So, he has more to lose than profit if he walks off. He might as well move from the area or work for someone else.

    I'd try to work it out so that he doesn't lose but he got himself in the deal and you based your transactions on what he proposed, so he needs to take responsibility too. You too can lose out as you may get a judgment if he walks but you have to collect, that's a different matter, so that should give you an incentive to be fair with him. If you save his tail and he knows it, you may get a good contractor for future deals, with a sharper pencil put to them by both of you. :)

  • Ridgefield, NJ · Member since 2013 · 1 post · 0 votes
    12y

    May I suggest the following:

    I am also a general contractor, and if I under estimate the job, i eat it to protect my reputation, but never by 25%, yikes, he probably did not get estimates from his subs. Question his references or your sources to see if he has ever done this with anyone else. What ever monies extra you give him for being a nice guy, comes out of your pocket (profit). I agree, good contractors are hard to find, but it appears this guy has stepped out of his expertise. Usually, the contract is the contract except for out of the ordinary circumstances, unknown, unforeseen circumstances. If you choose to give him more money than you contacted for, consider this, make it a personal loan to him and his company, tie him up, which he has to repay or work off another job for you. Good learning experience for him and no financial loss for you. Remember, at the end of this venture, it is only about money.

  • Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 57 votes
    12y

    Thanks Duncan. I appreciate that detail about the subs. I will ask that direct question and want proof.

    I absolutely intended on using him again. I have another project queued up in fact.

    Henry, that's a great idea also on the personal loan. He obviously stepped out of his expertise, but his workmanship has been great.

    I meet with him tomorrow so I will see what his proposal is first. I will tell him that I need a day to think about it. I'll also consult with my lawyer just to be safe.

    Thanks again.

  • Puyallup, WA · Member since 2013 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    12y

    I am also a general contractor experienced in rehab work. This field is a different animal than ANY other in construction. If a GC does not know his costs (both materials and labor/subs) he will lose his shorts on a rehab. Margins are very slim with not much room for mistakes. Most guys in construction get caught off guard when entering the rehab world. With that said, find out more about this guy. Is he new to rehabbing? Check references to see if he has gone over budget on a job before. Where is the shortfall on your job - was it his deficiency, or was the scope not detailed enough and he got nickel and dimed to death? He may be similar to me in that he will just absorb costs to make to customer happy (to the detriment to himself). Find out what subs he has used and get proof that they are paid up. Has he taken draws for himself without paying his subs? If so, it says something about his character.

    Just keep in mind this point - DO NOT PAY HIM THE FINAL PAYMENT until you have lean releases from him and know that his subcontractors and suppliers are paid in full! In our state, a supplier or subcontractor can place a lien against the property if they have not been paid by the general contractor, EVEN IF THE GENERAL HAS BEEN PAID IN FULL. I am sure you do not want the property encumbered when trying to sell or refi it.

    He sounds like he is taking the hit and trying to hold up his side of the agreement. If that is the case, be fair with him - he is a good contractor that you will want to have around. I have been in the same situation and have learned a lot from my mistakes - we all learn from mistakes. But I have also formed great business relationships with investors after working through similar problems such as this. I am not saying he should be paid what he is asking for - just be fair and view this as building relationships, if you see him as a part of your "team" you are building.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y

    The big question is whether he underbid all the other GCs you got quotes from. In other words, if you hadn't found him, how much would you have paid? If you would have paid significantly more had you not found him, that tells me that he was just bad at estimating, and since you likely would have had to pay more for the job in every other case, I think you should eat some of the cost (to be nice and keep the relationship). Think of it this way -- you would have had to pay the extra anyway.

    Now, if he wasn't the low bid (or others were close), that tells me that he was just inefficient. This is a worse case for you, as had you gone with another GC, you would have gotten as good a price, but without the headache (and risk). In this case, I'd be less willing to work with him on price, as he literally cost you money.

    Just my $.02...

  • Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 57 votes
    12y

    I went over there tonight when I knew he would be gone. He is working as though there is not an issue. All the flooring is down except for the carpet which he was going to sub out. I am going to sub that out. I'm quite impressed with how he is forging along, even though he is in a bad spot.

    He is going to be looking for about $7k when all is said and done, but I'm going to have to come out of pocket on carpet which will be roughly $3k. That's $10k over budget, which is significant.

    He bid the same as the other GC I used previously. He did not severely underbid. I know for a fact that he did things in much greater detail than the other GC I did not use this time.

    I will ask for verification to show his subs were paid. Should I ask for lien releases from each sub? I planned on getting one from him directly. I was not sure about each sub.

    I'm definitely going to work with him. We just need to agree on what is fair. I will review his numbers and assess where I'm at.

    From what he says, his material costs were way off. I asked for budgets on all the finishing materials and I stuck within those budgets. I did not specify amount of drywall, framing, trim, and paint. Those are the main issues from what he has told me thus far.

    Thanks again, everyone. This is immensely helpful.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Dan Costantino:

    I will ask for verification to show his subs were paid. Should I ask for lien releases from each sub? I planned on getting one from him directly. I was not sure about each sub.

    Yes, if you'll be getting lien waivers, get them from the subs. If the GC failed to pay them, they can still lien the house, even if the GC provides a lien waiver.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    12y

    I too an a contractor , what you described is called an education , to get an education it generally cost money , or time . I have gotten jobs , lost money , BUT I finished the job , I NEVER ASKED FOR MORE . I learned my lesson and never made the same mistake twice . If your guy was within 5 to 8 grand of any other bid he just plain mismanaged the finances on the job . IF you pay him more , the next time he will play the same card on you .

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    12y

    Sounds to me like he just got in over his head. I see it a lot with framers trying to build houses or be builders. I see a lot of remodelers so desperate for work they underbid a job or they spend the draws meant for the subs to feed their family because they don't have anything else going. They figure they'll make it up on the next job, but the next job becomes the next and so on. Probably nothing more than incompetence honestly. It happens a lot in construction. On the next job, I'd buy the materials for him and have them delivered and pay construction manager type of structure for him. I knew some guys flipping houses a few years ago that hired some guy to manage and swing a hammer when needed. They paid him a living wage and cut him in on a percentage of profits when house sold.

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