First time fix and flip opportunity in Stamford Connecticut

Meriden, CT · Member since 2018 · 702 posts · 501 votes

Hey @Beau Wollens. Welcome to BiggerPockets. You are correct that there is a lot of variability in prices. Even from contractors on a project you can get quotes that vary by 50% or more. The big thing that determines the price is what actually has to be done and the finishes that you select.

I know you said it is a gut remodel but are the floors still good? Is the layout still good or are you moving lots of walls? Is the roof good? Is the foundation good? If the foundation is good, the roof is good, the floors are good, the layout is good, you are probably saving at least $100k right there in labor/materials.

The other thing that frequents adds a lot of cost is when the unknown occurs. We had an underground oil tank that we thought was a 270 gallon. It ended up being about 1000 gallons. Removing it cost us an additional $5k over our estimate. When you have things that you do not know how bad they are until you open up pandora's box, it is hard to perfectly predict the cost.

I'd be happy to have a more in-depth conversation if interested. DM me if interested. I'd love to share whatever advice I can.

1 Reply

Nicholas L.Pro Member

Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

1y

@Beau Wollens

just curious - why aren't you being "allowed" to do an inspection? and even if you aren't going to do an inspection, can you walk it with a couple contractors?

bottom line - you can't use a square foot estimate... you need a bottoms up estimate as @Samuel Eddinger alluded to.

so... clean-out and demo? furnace? roof? water heater? doors? windows? floors? carpet? bathroom(s)? kitchen? appliances? basement? electrical? landscaping? etc.

and - you need to copy comps. so - what are the comps selling for, and what features do they have? you copy those features and you (hopefully) get that price.

1 Reply

Corby GoadeBusiness Member

Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

1y

Quote from @Beau Wollens:

Hey Everyone,

I am an extremely novice real estate investor looking for some advice on an opportunity I have on the table. I have the option to buy a 1,300-sqft 3-bed, 1.5-bath house in South End neighborhood of Stamford, CT, from a family member before it goes on the market. The past tenant was a hoarder and the apartment has not been lived in or touched since 1999 (26 years)!

I have been told by a contractor that the foundation of the building is intact, so it does not need to be torn down but requires a "gut renovation down to the studs." After some research online, I am reading that the cost per square foot on a gut renovation of this nature in Stamford CT is anywhere from $150-$350, which is ultimately not very helpful, because at $150 per sq ft, this is a very appealing project with a total profit of ~$175K (46% ROI) and at $350 per sq ft, it very much isn't, because it would be a net loss of 83K (haha).

QUESTIONS:

What can I do refine my estimate a bit given that I am not allowed to a formal inspection on the property?

Can anyone share a breakdown or budget for a similar project in a similar area? What were the biggest line items? How does this number breakdown?

What are the largest pitfalls one may run into that turn this from a 150 to 350 ordeal? Is this price differential largely a matter of how high-end you make the finishes? Or is it other factors?

Does the cost per sqft account for electric and plumbing?

If you are familiar with this area, any further recommendations or resources you are willing to provide, I am super grateful.

Here are the numbers I put together. Feel free to share any thoughts you have here as well.

Welcome! Very cool that you are analyzing a deal that might work for you. As you mentioned, that expense range is not super helpful.

Are you under contract? Why wouldn't you be able to have a formal inspection?

0 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member

OP

Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

1y

Quote from @Corby Goade:

Quote from @Beau Wollens:

Hey Everyone,

I am an extremely novice real estate investor looking for some advice on an opportunity I have on the table. I have the option to buy a 1,300-sqft 3-bed, 1.5-bath house in South End neighborhood of Stamford, CT, from a family member before it goes on the market. The past tenant was a hoarder and the apartment has not been lived in or touched since 1999 (26 years)!

I have been told by a contractor that the foundation of the building is intact, so it does not need to be torn down but requires a "gut renovation down to the studs." After some research online, I am reading that the cost per square foot on a gut renovation of this nature in Stamford CT is anywhere from $150-$350, which is ultimately not very helpful, because at $150 per sq ft, this is a very appealing project with a total profit of ~$175K (46% ROI) and at $350 per sq ft, it very much isn't, because it would be a net loss of 83K (haha).

QUESTIONS:

What can I do refine my estimate a bit given that I am not allowed to a formal inspection on the property?

Can anyone share a breakdown or budget for a similar project in a similar area? What were the biggest line items? How does this number breakdown?

What are the largest pitfalls one may run into that turn this from a 150 to 350 ordeal? Is this price differential largely a matter of how high-end you make the finishes? Or is it other factors?

Does the cost per sqft account for electric and plumbing?

If you are familiar with this area, any further recommendations or resources you are willing to provide, I am super grateful.

Here are the numbers I put together. Feel free to share any thoughts you have here as well.

Welcome! Very cool that you are analyzing a deal that might work for you. As you mentioned, that expense range is not super helpful.

Are you under contract? Why wouldn't you be able to have a formal inspection?

I am not under contract. Regarding inspection, I am honestly not sure. I need to inquire further on that. I believe it's because the property is being sold "as-is," and they are unwilling to make repairs or negotiate based on findings. Come to think of it, though, I can't imagine why they wouldn't let me perform one just to understand how much I can offer.

1 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member

OP

Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

1y

Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@Beau Wollens

just curious - why aren't you being "allowed" to do an inspection? and even if you aren't going to do an inspection, can you walk it with a couple contractors?

bottom line - you can't use a square foot estimate... you need a bottoms up estimate as @Samuel Eddinger alluded to.

so... clean-out and demo? furnace? roof? water heater? doors? windows? floors? carpet? bathroom(s)? kitchen? appliances? basement? electrical? landscaping? etc.

and - you need to copy comps. so - what are the comps selling for, and what features do they have? you copy those features and you (hopefully) get that price.

Thank you this is helpful.

I am honestly not sure. Regarding inspection, I need to inquire further on that. I believe it's because the property is being sold "as-is," and they are unwilling to make repairs or negotiate based on findings. Come to think of it, though, I can't imagine why they wouldn't let me perform one to understand how much I can offer.

0 Reply

Zachary DealPro Member

Lender · Member since 2023 · 465 posts · 425 votes

1y

As others have noted, being able to complete and inspection and walking the property with a at least one contractor is critical to understand the potential costs, etc. I would recommend planning for some unexpected costs on an extensive rehab like this, especially if the current tenant didn't treat the house well.

[email protected]

1 Reply

Jaron WallingPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

1y

@Beau Wollens "What can I do refine my estimate a bit given that I am not allowed to a formal inspection on the property?" - Given your experience level, without an inspection, I'd turn around and walk away. Family or not it's giving big red flags.

Every house I have purchased was sold "as-is" (good opportunities) and had no bearing on the deal. It's not like a REO auction or tenant occupied property. We do inspections on every deal and make realistic offers that are usually low.

1 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member

OP

Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

1y

Quote from @Samuel Eddinger:

Hey @Beau Wollens. Welcome to BiggerPockets. You are correct that there is a lot of variability in prices. Even from contractors on a project you can get quotes that vary by 50% or more. The big thing that determines the price is what actually has to be done and the finishes that you select.

I know you said it is a gut remodel but are the floors still good? Is the layout still good or are you moving lots of walls? Is the roof good? Is the foundation good? If the foundation is good, the roof is good, the floors are good, the layout is good, you are probably saving at least $100k right there in labor/materials.

The other thing that frequents adds a lot of cost is when the unknown occurs. We had an underground oil tank that we thought was a 270 gallon. It ended up being about 1000 gallons. Removing it cost us an additional $5k over our estimate. When you have things that you do not know how bad they are until you open up pandora's box, it is hard to perfectly predict the cost.

I'd be happy to have a more in-depth conversation if interested. DM me if interested. I'd love to share whatever advice I can.

Hey Sam,

Thanks for coming back here. Here is the rather brief insight I received:

"The house structure is good, but it needs a complete gut. The front porch needs a few rafters changed, but the structure is good. You will need a new roof and new siding for the exterior. The interior is a total gut: new insulation, sheetrock, plumbing, electric, kitchen, bathroom, doors, windows, and landscaping. We couldn't see the floors (too much trash), but probably safe to assume those should be replaced as well. I was not able to get into the basement, so I am unsure about the water heater and gas."

Even though they weren't able to get into the basement, I am sure the water heater/boiler needs to be replaced.

0 Reply

Corby GoadeBusiness Member

Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

1y

Quote from @Beau Wollens:

Quote from @Corby Goade:

Quote from @Beau Wollens:

Hey Everyone,

I am an extremely novice real estate investor looking for some advice on an opportunity I have on the table. I have the option to buy a 1,300-sqft 3-bed, 1.5-bath house in South End neighborhood of Stamford, CT, from a family member before it goes on the market. The past tenant was a hoarder and the apartment has not been lived in or touched since 1999 (26 years)!

I have been told by a contractor that the foundation of the building is intact, so it does not need to be torn down but requires a "gut renovation down to the studs." After some research online, I am reading that the cost per square foot on a gut renovation of this nature in Stamford CT is anywhere from $150-$350, which is ultimately not very helpful, because at $150 per sq ft, this is a very appealing project with a total profit of ~$175K (46% ROI) and at $350 per sq ft, it very much isn't, because it would be a net loss of 83K (haha).

QUESTIONS:

What can I do refine my estimate a bit given that I am not allowed to a formal inspection on the property?

Can anyone share a breakdown or budget for a similar project in a similar area? What were the biggest line items? How does this number breakdown?

What are the largest pitfalls one may run into that turn this from a 150 to 350 ordeal? Is this price differential largely a matter of how high-end you make the finishes? Or is it other factors?

Does the cost per sqft account for electric and plumbing?

If you are familiar with this area, any further recommendations or resources you are willing to provide, I am super grateful.

Here are the numbers I put together. Feel free to share any thoughts you have here as well.

Welcome! Very cool that you are analyzing a deal that might work for you. As you mentioned, that expense range is not super helpful.

Are you under contract? Why wouldn't you be able to have a formal inspection?

I am not under contract. Regarding inspection, I am honestly not sure. I need to inquire further on that. I believe it's because the property is being sold "as-is," and they are unwilling to make repairs or negotiate based on findings. Come to think of it, though, I can't imagine why they wouldn't let me perform one just to understand how much I can offer.

As-Is, doesn't mean "as-is" if you negotiate and write your contract appropriately. I hope you are working with an excellent agent or broker, they can create leverage and opportunity for you while protecting your interest.

0 Reply

Kelly Helstein

Real Estate Agent · Fairfield County · Member since 2021 · 5 posts · 2 votes

1y

Hi - I'm an agent in the Stamford/Greenwich area. I have to agree with Corby, "as is" should still allow you to do inspections for informational purposes only. Have you received an accepted offer at this point?

0 Reply

Elio Campiolo Jr

Rental Property Investor · Stamford, CT · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 33 votes

1y

Hey @Beau Wollens, late to the party, but curious to know what you ended up doing here. I'm local to Stamford and always willing to talk about the market or anything relating to real estate in general, feel free to reach out.

0 Reply

Trevor Finn

Real Estate Consultant · Columbia, MD · Member since 2017 · 160 posts · 55 votes

1y

Hey @Beau Wollens

Your numbers show a massive swing in potential profit, so refining your renovation estimate is critical. The biggest cost variables are structural surprises, electrical/plumbing overhauls, and environmental hazards (asbestos, lead, etc.). Since you can’t do a formal inspection, a detailed contractor walk-through and phased renovation estimate are key.

Have you considered checking city records for past permits to uncover any unaddressed issues? Since Stamford’s market supports higher-end finishes, who is your target buyer, and do you really need top-tier finishes to maximize ROI?

What’s your contingency plan if costs overrun?

0 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member
OP
Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
1y
Quote from @Trevor Finn:

Hey @Beau Wollens
Your numbers show a massive swing in potential profit, so refining your renovation estimate is critical. The biggest cost variables are structural surprises, electrical/plumbing overhauls, and environmental hazards (asbestos, lead, etc.). Since you can’t do a formal inspection, a detailed contractor walk-through and phased renovation estimate are key.

Have you considered checking city records for past permits to uncover any unaddressed issues? Since Stamford’s market supports higher-end finishes, who is your target buyer, and do you really need top-tier finishes to maximize ROI?
What’s your contingency plan if costs overrun?
All good questions. How do I answer them?
0 Reply

Aaron RamPro Member

Investor · Stamford, CT · Member since 2011 · 52 posts · 20 votes

1y

@Beau Wollens A bit late to reply, but please tell me you bought this deal. A 3BR, 1.5BA in the South End—just the land alone is worth more than $175K. You could have picked it up, flipped it right back on the market for $300K without lifting a finger, or done a basic builder-grade renovation and sold it for $625K+.

Also, most homes in the South End fall under RMF or R6 multifamily zoning. If the lot is at or near 6,000 sq. ft., there’s a strong chance you could legally convert to a two-family. Right now, the average two-family sale in Stamford is $818K—and that’s not even for a newly finished one.

Good luck if this opportunity is still around. Feel free to reach out if I can help in any way.

2 Reply

Jaron WallingPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

1y

Quote from @Aaron Ram:

@Beau Wollens A bit late to reply, but please tell me you bought this deal. A 3BR, 1.5BA in the South End—just the land alone is worth more than $175K. You could have picked it up, flipped it right back on the market for $300K without lifting a finger, or done a basic builder-grade renovation and sold it for $625K+.

Also, most homes in the South End fall under RMF or R6 multifamily zoning. If the lot is at or near 6,000 sq. ft., there’s a strong chance you could legally convert to a two-family. Right now, the average two-family sale in Stamford is $818K—and that’s not even for a newly finished one.

Good luck if this opportunity is still around. Feel free to reach out if I can help in any way.

Dang, I hope he bought it! Seems like a no home run opportunity after reading your post.

0 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member

OP

Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

1y

Quote from @Aaron Ram:

@Beau Wollens A bit late to reply, but please tell me you bought this deal. A 3BR, 1.5BA in the South End—just the land alone is worth more than $175K. You could have picked it up, flipped it right back on the market for $300K without lifting a finger, or done a basic builder-grade renovation and sold it for $625K+.

Also, most homes in the South End fall under RMF or R6 multifamily zoning. If the lot is at or near 6,000 sq. ft., there’s a strong chance you could legally convert to a two-family. Right now, the average two-family sale in Stamford is $818K—and that’s not even for a newly finished one.

Good luck if this opportunity is still around. Feel free to reach out if I can help in any way.

Update. I have an accepted offer. Thanks all.

1 Reply

Beau WollensPro Member

OP

Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

1y

Quote from @Jaron Walling:

Quote from @Aaron Ram:

@Beau Wollens A bit late to reply, but please tell me you bought this deal. A 3BR, 1.5BA in the South End—just the land alone is worth more than $175K. You could have picked it up, flipped it right back on the market for $300K without lifting a finger, or done a basic builder-grade renovation and sold it for $625K+.

Also, most homes in the South End fall under RMF or R6 multifamily zoning. If the lot is at or near 6,000 sq. ft., there’s a strong chance you could legally convert to a two-family. Right now, the average two-family sale in Stamford is $818K—and that’s not even for a newly finished one.

Good luck if this opportunity is still around. Feel free to reach out if I can help in any way.

Dang, I hope he bought it! Seems like a no home run opportunity after reading your post.

I did. :)

1 Reply

First time fix and flip opportunity in Stamford Connecticut - Total Gut Renovation

First time fix and flip opportunity in Stamford Connecticut - Total Gut Renovation

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