Illegal electric install found after closing. What would you do?

Illegal electric install found after closing. What would you do?

Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 7 votes

I'm a couple months into owning a rental property in NY. Bigger Pockets was a huge getting it nailed down! Now I've got my first post-purchase question.

The home I purchased was a gut renovation flip. To make a long story short: Our tenants reported that the main circuit breaker has been tripping with some frequency, so we brought an electrician out today.

He isolated the problem: romex wiring outside the house going to the central A/C unit. We have to re-run the wiring inside PVC or galvanized pipe, and will need to punch through some walls to make it happen. I'm waiting on an estimate form the electrician, but based on our conversation, I wouldn't be surprised if it comes in around $2Kish.

One thing that the electrician noted is that using Romex for exterior electricity is "illegal" for outdoor electricity in NYC. I don't know the specifics of the code here, but I am very inclined to reach out to the seller and ask them to handle this fix. I'm thinking that I would have some leverage based on the fact that their wiring did not seem to be up to code, and I figured that a friendly reach out might be better at this stage than going super in depth into their legal obligations, etc.

If anyone on the forums has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear!

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San Francisco, CA · Member since 2014 · 345 posts · 281 votes
11y

Welcome to landlording.  This won't be the last time something like this comes up.  You can get wrapped up in blaming the inspector or the seller or whatever, but you own the place.  Fix it and find something more important to worry about.   It could be worse.  

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  • Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    YOU need to prove to the electric company that you just bought the property. YOU did not put in the meter and get the electricity started. YOU are calling to get it in your name, NOW, not $3k ago.

    Personally, if I saw a new meter, new electrical panel outside or inside, THAT is when I would have checked with the city to see if permits were pulled, BEFORE CLOSING. Its called due diligence during you option period. If they didn't have permits I would have raised a stink about it.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    Something is wrong here . If the main breaker was tripping due to the wire going to the AC unit , you have a bigger problem . It should only trip the breaker for the AC unit , not the main . The romex may not be up to todays code , but if it were sized right it wouldnt be the cause of the problem .  It takes a WHOLE lot to trip a main breaker . 

    And there is no need to re run ANY inside wire , you just have to take care of the wire outside the house .  That would be about 6 feet from the disconnect box to the unit .

  • Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    2y
    @Rick Pozos:

    I did not know this at the time. I was too busy focusing on other big things. Plus an there was an amendment to our sales contract,  which the seller was appointed all responsibilities of making sure electric was up to code. Contract was signed saying he would do things with a licensed electrician and by the code etc. He installed a new panel box in the home and did so without a permit. Is every buyer supposr to assume a licensed electrician would NOT pull a permit and do things right? Idk in what world when a contract says do things up to code etc that gave him the idea that wouldn't include getting a permit. The contract had already been signed and I was in the home when I had to get a copy of the work estimate to the insurance that is when the no permit issue came up. His realtor then sent me a text saying well you didn't state you wanted a permit. To my reply. It's the law. Why would I need to tell you to do things legally. They scrambled and got an after the fact permit 3 months later on the panel box but now the meter is an issue and again. IT is in the standard procedure guidelines documents that the utility put out for the public, and over 10 times it says the electric company will not turn on the electric to a new meter without an finalized inspection i.e. permit. How does the buyer need to make sure a HUGE utility company also follows their own rules as well. It was assumed since the utility company supposedly installed the meter that they also saw a permit and or inspection prior to to doing so. 

  • Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes
    2y

    How old is the HVAC. A worn out compressor can draw a lot of power and trip the breaker. 

    Did they bury the Romex. If not you should be able to visibly see any breaks in the wire. Although not up to code, exposed romex will last decades if its not physically damaged by rodents etc.  

  • Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    2y
     @Craig Janet:

    How old is the HVAC. 

    The hvac is a 4 ton unit it's older but it works great. The utility company came out yesterday and I showed him the outside breaker box and told him according to neighbors that was installed before the meter change and then the house panel box change. The seller did that first in attempt to get more power to the HVAC so he wondered if the breaker is connected to the meter directly. So even though I have my ac on a high temperature setting and its kicking off it may still be drawing power bc it's hooked straight to meter. Would this be valid? Does this seem like it could be an issue? Is the outside breaker suppose to be hooked straight to the meter directly. 

    Thank you

  • Mark WilliamsPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2010 · 63 posts · 35 votes
    2y

    In the world of real estate, learning experiences like these are par for the course. Every property comes with its unique challenges, and encountering electrical issues is quite common. It's great that you're taking steps to address this promptly and professionally.

    Remember that continuous learning and adapting to unexpected situations are all part of the journey in real estate investing. Even experienced investors encounter surprises, so don't be discouraged by this experience. Instead, use it as an opportunity to expand your knowledge and refine your due diligence process for future investments.

    Wishing you the best of luck with resolving the electrical issue and with your rental property endeavors. If you have any more questions or need further advice, feel free to ask. The Bigger Pockets community is a valuable resource, and there are many experienced investors willing to share their insights.

  • Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Na Stark:
     @Craig Janet:

    How old is the HVAC. 

    The hvac is a 4 ton unit it's older but it works great. The utility company came out yesterday and I showed him the outside breaker box and told him according to neighbors that was installed before the meter change and then the house panel box change. The seller did that first in attempt to get more power to the HVAC so he wondered if the breaker is connected to the meter directly. So even though I have my ac on a high temperature setting and its kicking off it may still be drawing power bc it's hooked straight to meter. Would this be valid? Does this seem like it could be an issue? Is the outside breaker suppose to be hooked straight to the meter directly. 

    Thank you


     I'm not sure I'm following what your describing. Outdoor units are supposed to have a disconnect (sometimes a breaker) outdoors near the the unit. The outdoor disconnect/breaker should be connected to another breaker at the main panel (where ever yours is located.)

    Can you be specific when you say its hooked up directly to the meter? Do you mean its hooked up to the main breaker panel. 

  • Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Craig Janet:
    Quote from @Na Stark:
     @Craig Janet:

    I do have an outside breaker for the and from what I discovered today and what the utility company has theorized is that the seller ran the ac outside breaker straight to the meter on top of another line for the main house .. so two lines from the meter feeding power. Idk if this is legit. Again there was no permit pulled on the work that was done nor can the utility company provide any documentation that they installed the meter. The issue that I discovered today is that when the ac is on but set to a temperature to shut off and it does shut off its still pulling 4kw an hour versus if I just switch it off. Whatever the seller did electrically the ac will still draw a large amount of power even when it not running vs just switching it off. The other question I have is should two lines of power being running to the house? How dangerous is this? 

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