Hardwood Flooring - Rehab Recommendations for Long Term Stability

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Hardwood Flooring - Rehab Recommendations for Long Term Stability

Andy Peck
Investor · Chicago, IL - Illinois · Member since 2014 · 5 posts · 0 votes

Hey BP,

I'm looking to close on a 3-plex (3 flat) in Chicago in the beginning of December and doing an FHA full 203k rehab of the property.

One of the items we are upgrading for long term buy and hold stability is the flooring since the area can demand higher quality rents. The house is outdated and currently has laminate so were tearing that out and we looking at either doing Oak or Pine flooring.

My General Contractor mentioned cutting costs on the project since we are doing all 3 units with hardwood and using Pine instead of Oak and then sealing it to make it stronger for long term durability.

Has anyone here gone with Pine versus Oak for flooring and had good long term stability with tenants wear and tear? I'm trying to see what the opportunity cost is to save on the flooring now versus potentially having to redo/reseal it every time tenants move out.

Any advice on proper sealing or Poly to ensure the Pine lasts through wear and tear so I don't have to re-seal it every time I have a new tenant move in? I understand it is a softer wood than Oak, but seeing if we can save on the rehab costs but open to recommendation from what other investors have run into with this.

Open to any other recommendations on procedure or wood to use for this situation.

Thanks!

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Dante Pirouz
Investor · Almont, MI · Member since 2015 · 360 posts · 302 votes
10y

We try to refurbish and keep hardwood floors (HW) when we find it in the house (usually under crappy, stinky carpet) by refinishing it. Tenants love it and I use extra thick coats of dark stain if there is a lot of discoloration and damage and always double or triple up on the coats of varnish so that it can withstand a beating. At that point it is virtually waterproof so even with pets it holds up really well. Laminate is great and we do use it in kitchens and bathrooms and when the HW is non existent but it is more expensive per square foot (tends to cost us about $1.70/sf when we install ourselves but can be much more) than HW refinishing. We always do HW refinishing in-house so the cost is only renting the sander and the stain if needed and varnish maybe $200 in total for a whole house/unit vs. $1500-$2000. Hope that helps!

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  • Keith Lewis
    Interior Decorator · Canton, MI · Member since 2015 · 129 posts · 100 votes
    10y

    Andy,

    Is money a REAL factor for you? IF you've got it budgeted for HARD wood then why go with something that you obviously know is inferior to your needs. If you don't want to be resurfacing( not refinishing) after every tenant then don't go with wood. Wood requires maintenance. It can demand a higher dollar in rent but that should include the maintenance. Otherwise look into better quality LVT (something with an AO or Ceramic Finish for scratch resistance. Also have you check the sound ordinance in your area regarding putting hard surface of any type on second and third stories without soundproofing? You may have none but if you do and have to do a rip out there goes your profit.

    0Reply
  • Byron Bohlsen
    Investor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 173 posts · 53 votes
    10y

    What do the comps have? 

    Unless its way high end rental real hardwood seems like a bad idea. You can buy very nice looking laminate that lasts longer and is cheaper. 

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  • Dante Pirouz
    Investor · Almont, MI · Member since 2015 · 360 posts · 302 votes
    10y

    We try to refurbish and keep hardwood floors (HW) when we find it in the house (usually under crappy, stinky carpet) by refinishing it. Tenants love it and I use extra thick coats of dark stain if there is a lot of discoloration and damage and always double or triple up on the coats of varnish so that it can withstand a beating. At that point it is virtually waterproof so even with pets it holds up really well. Laminate is great and we do use it in kitchens and bathrooms and when the HW is non existent but it is more expensive per square foot (tends to cost us about $1.70/sf when we install ourselves but can be much more) than HW refinishing. We always do HW refinishing in-house so the cost is only renting the sander and the stain if needed and varnish maybe $200 in total for a whole house/unit vs. $1500-$2000. Hope that helps!

    2Reply
  • Casey Kleinhenz
    Developer · Bentonville, AR · Member since 2013 · 45 posts · 25 votes
    10y

    Glue down vinyl plank on a concrete slab is bombproof. All material over a crawlspace is going to require refreshing more often than I like.

    1Reply
  • Steven Gesis
    Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 390 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Andy Peck:

    Hey BP,

    I'm looking to close on a 3-plex (3 flat) in Chicago in the beginning of December and doing an FHA full 203k rehab of the property.

    One of the items we are upgrading for long term buy and hold stability is the flooring since the area can demand higher quality rents. The house is outdated and currently has laminate so were tearing that out and we looking at either doing Oak or Pine flooring.

    My General Contractor mentioned cutting costs on the project since we are doing all 3 units with hardwood and using Pine instead of Oak and then sealing it to make it stronger for long term durability.

    Has anyone here gone with Pine versus Oak for flooring and had good long term stability with tenants wear and tear? I'm trying to see what the opportunity cost is to save on the flooring now versus potentially having to redo/reseal it every time tenants move out.

    Any advice on proper sealing or Poly to ensure the Pine lasts through wear and tear so I don't have to re-seal it every time I have a new tenant move in? I understand it is a softer wood than Oak, but seeing if we can save on the rehab costs but open to recommendation from what other investors have run into with this.

    Open to any other recommendations on procedure or wood to use for this situation.

    Thanks!

     Hey Andy, I think everyone made some great points, depending on where you are and the profile of the area, you may want to consider installing a T&G Laminate, fairly inexpensive, easy install, scratch proof and will be much more sustainable for tenant turnover. Your short term and long term costs will be much less as the aesthetic of the floors will last much longer than a floor refurbishing.  This is one side of the argument. On the other hand, we do sometimes implement both in homes, we do try to retain and refinish existing hardwood if the floor is in good condition. However, if you are considering installing all new flooring because your hardwood is not existing or in poor condition, I would highly consider just a laminate good quality floor instead. I would not go with the pine, it is thin, softer than oak and will not be sustainable for refinishing multiple times after turnover like oak.

    Much luck #TeamTurnkey

    0Reply
  • Stephen Hundley
    Realtor · Lafayette, LA · Member since 2011 · 296 posts · 175 votes
    10y

    I recommend glue down vinyl plank 

    0Reply
  • Alex Stewart
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 27 votes
    10y
    I would put down the Allure laminate flooring from home depot. It is inexpensive, looks good, and is pretty close to indestructible which is critical in rentals.
    1Reply
  • John Weidner
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 200 votes
    10y

    you won't lose on Oak Hardwood. It will attract renters.   I would avoid Pine and stick with Oak.  

    Between tenants you can do a buff and reseal with Poly.  Doesn't require a full sand 

    0Reply
  • Lumi Ispas
    Real Estate Consultant · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 720 posts · 439 votes
    10y

    @Andy Peck, oak has been used for over 100 years in Chicago for a reason. It's a strong wood that resist anything. Stay with what works. 

    I deviated twice from oak and lost both times: I used prefinished, engineered hardwood once in a condo I flipped and I sold the place for 10K less than if it had the solid oak. The buyers were not trusting my prefinished, floating floors and all complained about it. I almost ripped it all out to install the real thing.

    The second time I used bamboo as I wanted to cut costs and the wood started looking cheap very quickly. 

    Now I learned my lesson: oak everywhere and I stain it if the unit is high end!

    Good luck to you!

    0Reply
  • Alec McCullough
    Houston, TX · Member since 2015 · 98 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    I had a hardwood flooring business and my family has done hardwood for years absolutely don't use pine in your rental it's an extremely soft wood and will not last at all. Oak is a good solid wood and I would go pre-finished over unfinished the finishes are much higher quality, harder, more durable and in terms of costs you'll spend less over paying someone to sand a finish an unfinished floor. If you're going hardwood do harder woods like oak, maple, hickory and stay away from softer stuff like cherry, walnut, or pine. 

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 256 votes
    10y

    @Andy Peck - if you have access to Southern Yellow Pine, it is a popular and durable choice... readily available, as flooring in our area and obviously, even more so further south.  Of course, since logistics affect economics, it's a lower cost product here, but may not be elsewhere.

    On a project I did many moons ago (albeit for an owner occupant) we used oak in the primary living areas, cherry in the kitchen and Southern Yellow Pine in the master bedroom.  All stained, and since all 3/4" tongue and groove, it was smooth and seamless. Transitions occurred at doors or cased openings.  Still looks great nearly twenty years later and has not been refinished since (but again, owner occupant).

    Regardless of oak vs. pine, keep in mind that the labor to install, sand, finish, etc. shouldn't be any different.  Additionally, not all oak or pine or many specie of wood are of equal durability and cost, so be sure of what you get.  In these parts, white oak is more expensive to source than red oak (white oak is harder than red, but red is more common than white).  Longleaf Southern Yellow Pine is is harder than say Shortleaf Yellow Pine.

    Google "Janka hardness test" - it's a listing of "hardness" for a plethora of woods.  Keep in mind though that this listing is generally for compressive "denting" and does not account for the finish.  The wood of most floors perform very well over time... it's the finish that tends to deteriorate, scratch and look bad over time.

    Good luck to you!

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