Do Hard Money company, reviews?
Noblesville, IN · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 4 votes
Do Hard Money company, reviews?
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesthey charge 3k up front.. with no guarantee of funding so if you don't have any money or very little
be careful.. mixed reviews on the company on BP.. also when you dig into it you will realize you will need a pretty good amount of capital to do a loan with them..
if you have no real capital to do this your making a huge mistake.. you need to first get capital.
if you have capital then you can take these high leverage loans..
also beginners have a hard time finding deals that will meet their criteria and thereby you lose your 3k.
65 Replies
- Rolling Meadows, IL · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes7y@Jay Hinrichs Jay, I wish my wife and I would have found your post beforehand. That is are situation right now. After endless weeks and a couple months of searching and viewing homes we finally found one where we had enough capital but the deal fell through because DoHardMoney did not agree with our ARV even though we had multiple evals done which supported our numbers. We were forced to try to renegotiate the purchase price with the Bank(owner) and that went south. So I agree the deals have to be perfect deals before they will move forward.
- Lender · Oakbrook, IL · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 9 votes7y
When you don't have a lot of capital I would suggest finding a partner and form an LLC. Most lenders need just one guarantor and if you find someone with investor experience even better, you will get a much better rate.
- Lender · Oakbrook, IL · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 9 votes7y
@Ariel Laureano you are right it seems like the appraisers are making it more and more difficult for borrowers.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ariel Laureano:
@Jay HinrichsJay, I wish my wife and I would have found your post beforehand. That is are situation right now. After endless weeks and a couple months of searching and viewing homes we finally found one where we had enough capital but the deal fell through because DoHardMoney did not agree with our ARV even though we had multiple evals done which supported our numbers. We were forced to try to renegotiate the purchase price with the Bank(owner) and that went south.
So I agree the deals have to be perfect deals before they will move forward.
there is another DHM thread were Jacque the owner now says the 3k is optional and the person posting said so as well. Were you told the 3k is now optional.. that would be a much better situation for new borrowers.. and or new flippers.. who are frankly the target of any lender advertising 100% financing.. I get the risk part for the company.. just on the surface though it just seems the 3k for newbie who never did a deal is something that many times will be lost as they will never find a deal that makes it through underwriting.. I have seen this many times with the larger guru's that promise funding .. and yes if the deal is a unicorn you can get it other wise what most people can find it just never happens.. EM gets lost deals never close.. 3k which is mandatory from some people but according to Jacque is not.. so who knows where the truth lies.. probably somewhere in the middle. So my question to you is did you was the 3k mandatory for you or was it an option.. and you just chose to pay it.. or did submit loan requests by simply paying the 650 for their in house apprasials and underwriting.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Patrick Donnelly:
@Ariel Laureano you are right it seems like the appraisers are making it more and more difficult for borrowers.
Patrick if I was guessing DHM does there own internal valuations.. much like a lendinghome .. etc.. I suspect and of course don't know for sure but I suspect that these are not true 3rd party appraisals like you would see a bank order.. Maybe someone who has gone through the process can talk about what kind of apprasials they are talking about .. in house valuations or a real 3rd party appraisal service.
- Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y@Jay Hinrichs You are correct, they do an in house appraisal. I contacted them when I was first starting out, lured in by the 100% financing bait, and spoke with them. At that time, I was under the impression that the $3000 was mandatory, although it may have just been that they were pushing that angle and I didnt ask the right questions. For the $3000, according to what i was told, you get access to their "system" that included a deal calculator, of some sort, where you can enter your deal details to see if it passes the DHM "sniff test". I would love to know the approval rate of loans that pass the initial deal calculator.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@kristihawkins @Jason D. Kristi Hawkins and I had a long conversation on this company as she is planning on using them.. and she assured us on BP that the 3k was not mandatory anymore.. but then U have others say it for sure is..
so I don't know.. but in reality its just 3k for their brand of information.. if you think it has 3k of value what ever their calculator and other materials that they give you then that is up to the borrower buyer.
However in the lending world this is just not the norm.. most HML are going to help U with valuations just because they don't want to loan into bad deals.. so other than an appraisal fee .. the rest is free.. and no one needs a calculator this is about as simple math as it gets.. if you need a calculator to figure out if your deal pencils then to me your not ready to be doing these deals in the first place LOL
- Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y@Jay Hinrichs like I said, maybe the $3k wasnt mandatory, but it didnt sound like there was another option. And this was a few years back so things may have changed. As you said, all HMLs vet deals before approving, so the entrance fee for DHM didnt provide any value for me. Maybe they are more involved in the entire process than others, but that can be a double edged sword. @Sam Shueh I have not seen those terms personally. My first HML was 20% down at 10.5% for a 9 month term. Even first timers can get better than 50% DP and 15% interest, if they shop around
- New Bern, NC · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 3 votes7y@Joanna Schutte https://www.biggerpockets.com/topics/620064
- Flipper/Rehabber · North Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2017 · 141 posts · 104 votes7y
I'm going to be completely honest: When I first heard of DoHardMoney a year ago I was ecstatic! I couldn't wait to use them until I called them and they said they need $3,000 up front. I was like " Ehh whatever," and then I ended up reading a bunch of messed up reviews about them so I said forget it. My dad ended up bringing them up one day and said he liked their "100% financing system," so he gave them a call and he asked me if it's something we should do so I said " Ehh whatever." So he decided to get the 100% financing system and I promise you not even a scammer claiming to be from the IRS could've scammed us like how we got scammed from DoHardMoney. I'm in jersey so our market is $100k-$500k for a discounted deal, unless your deep south or deep north. These guys only loan to $250k and the max rehab is only $40-50k. I'm into gut jobs, not minor rehabs, I had a deal I had that should've qualified for 100% financing and it was a HUD deal and these guys refused to finance it because the contract wasn't in " DoHardMoney And Or Assigns." I had the contract in my LLC name and because the deal didn't match their criteria because it had termite damage they didn't want to finance it. You need a PERFECT deal to get financing from these guys. If you really want to get started find a partner with money and use their money for a downpayment with a REAL hard money lender.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I'm going to be completely honest: When I first heard of DoHardMoney a year ago I was ecstatic! I couldn't wait to use them until I called them and they said they need $3,000 up front. I was like " Ehh whatever," and then I ended up reading a bunch of messed up reviews about them so I said forget it. My dad ended up bringing them up one day and said he liked their "100% financing system," so he gave them a call and he asked me if it's something we should do so I said " Ehh whatever." So he decided to get the 100% financing system and I promise you not even a scammer claiming to be from the IRS could've scammed us like how we got scammed from DoHardMoney. I'm in jersey so our market is $100k-$500k for a discounted deal, unless your deep south or deep north. I had a deal I had that should've qualified for 100% financing and it was a HUD deal and these guys refused to finance it because the contract wasn't in " DoHardMoney And Or Assigns." I had the contract in my name and because the deal didn't match their criteria because it had termite damage they didn't want to finance it. You need a PERFECT deal to get financing from these guys. If you really want to get started find a partner with money and use their money for a downpayment with a REAL hard money lender.
Maybe Jacque can come on and clarify but Kristi Hawkins described there program and its really more of a JV program than a loan .. and it sounded like the properties had to go into an LLC that you were both on.. and if you default they don't have to foreclose.. at least that is the way I understood it from Kristi.. and I am good with the vehicle but then they should not be advertising that they do loans they should be advertising that they are JV partners.. and its fine to give a JV partner a very large return.. I get that..
but when you advertise no money down 100% financing who are you going to get calling you.. Exactly those with little to no money and many that are beginners so they are not up to speed on complicated vesting and JV schemes..
- Hard Money Lender · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 75 votes7y
Disclosure - Director of PR for Do Hard Money
@Jonathan Schoap - once again we're sorry you had a disappointing experience with someone on our team. Members of our executive team have tried to reach out to you and I have given you complete access to the software- if you log in you will be able to access it and we'd be more than happy to walk you through all of the property finding and marketing features it contains.
@Jason D. - the enrollment has never been mandatory in order to get access to our funding, we have funding options that don't require access to the resources in that system. I am sorry that it wasn't made clearer when you spoke with a member of our team. We do have funding that is more in line with the other terms being discussed here, and no one needs to buy anything from us in order to get one of those loans. As far as what is included in the enrollment, it is far more than a calculator, and the calculator itself is not like most other deal calculators, it contains the very specific criteria of our no/low cash to close funding, so it rejects many deals that other calculators might indicate are good deals. The value is not in the calculator, but all of the information that goes into it, so that you can learn how to recognize that very specific type of deal. There are other resources as part of enrollment as well- I messaged you to give you access to the software (different from the calculator) if you are interested in checking it out please message me and I will get you access.
@Jay Hinrichs Our evaluation process is pretty comprehensive. And yes, most lenders will help you with the valuation process, we provide far more help because so many new investors don't know what they are doing. There is not as much value there for more seasoned investors with a few deals behind them. Our evaluators are independent, we give them the guidelines for valuing properties that correlate with our no /low cash to close funding, but we don't tell them whether or not to recommend any deal. We have at least 2 of these independent evaluations completed, which means 2 real estate professionals who live, work and have sold homes in the immediate area go out separately, without communicating with each other or the borrower at all. By the time an evaluation is done 18-21 comps have been pulled as well as the evaluators giving a written report and pictures. Then the compliance process would start, with the contractor bid being vetted by a construction project manager to make sure planned repairs are what needs to be done to bring the property in line with the recently sold and on the current market competing properties, and that the bid is reasonably priced for professional grade work. Our compliance team will also look at the area for other risk factors- things that might impact whether or not the home can be rehabbed and sold within the loan period. We don't just look at the profitability of the deal when we are extending the low/no cash to close funding, but whether or not it has a good chance of selling within that time frame. A deal can be profitable and still considered too risky for that type of loan. We can extend a more traditional loan offer for the deals that warrant it as well, we hate turning down the opportunity to fund someone's deal.
@Ariel Laureano - I am having our customer success manager reach out to you, and I have messaged you here. We will get you some more help with property finding and valuing.
- Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y@Jacque Fairbourn thank you for that detailed description. I appreciate the offer but it's not something I'm currently looking for. It does sound like more of a joint venture relationship than a lender/lendee relationship, which some people may need. It just seems to me that there are A LOT of hoops to get through to get a deal closed. So explain to me this.... I just went through the quesionairre to apply for a loan, outside of the program, and was told that you dont lend in Florida. Then went back and went through the "program" and Florida didnt seem to be a problem.... This is the type of thing that turns people off
- Hard Money Lender · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 75 votes7y
@Jason D. - not sure what you mean by "went back through the program and Florida didn't seem to be a problem" - could you call me and explain to me where you saw that or came across that. (my phone number is in my signature)
Earlier this year we did lend in Florida, but that changed approximately a month ago, so if we missed it in a calculator or on a webpage I would like to find it and get it corrected.
- Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes7y
I wouldn't recommend. It really seems like false advertising to me, shifty shady stuff. They no longer charge the $3,000 upfront but they roll it into your loan if you ever get one as a "risk" fee I'm sorta wondering if anyone has been funded by them, I've read a lot post various places that people are not, even those with experience,
They charge over a $1000 cant remember the exact amount to put the property in an LLC. You can't do it yourself. They have a lot of extra charges that I have not see with other HML.
They charge $650 for an "evaluation" which is pretty steep, conveniently the ARV amounts are too low for funding, even though you have comps for much more. This seems like a cash grab. I've had a HML actually look at comps before ordering the appraisal to see if they think it will come in around the ARV needed.
I've read other post about all sorts of other reasons they won't loan such as a poor performing school district. They do mislead by making it seem so easy to get 100% financing.
- Rental Property Investor · Cleveland Ohio · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 0 votes7y
So I just got off the phone with Steve from DHM and he told me
That the 3K was not optional and you had to have skin in the game.
I told him that I wholesale and I don't need the backend support. He replied its not just backend support.
I wholesale a lot of great deals and I would love to flip one and capitalize . I like the 100% financing because I can just focus on the fix & flip and pay the monthly interest on the backend.
Its not 100% financing if I have to pay up front 3K before I even have a deal to fund.
I asked Steve if there were anyway we could work around the 3k deposit and he flat out told me NO and we ended the call.
My gut feeling told me not to do it after reading BP's reviews.
Thank you
- Hard Money Lender · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 75 votes7y
Disclosure - Director of PR DoHardMoney
@Cynthia Miller - we do charge the $3000 in order to get access to the tools and resources that make it possible for us to extend no and low cash to close funding, and if you are not enrolled and want that type of funding then you'll need to pay that risk fee as well as set up the LLC in a specifically structured manor in order to get that funding. If you wish to obtain a traditional hard money loan with a down payment, monthly payment etc, neither of those things are necessary.
@Frank A. Henry - I will have Steve reach out to you.
- Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 7 votes7y
@Jacque Fairbourn I signed up for Do Hard Money yesterday and paid the $3000. I was very excited to work with you guys after speaking with some staff members on the phone and hearing about the support you offer to new and inexperienced investors.
The first day I signed up, I could not even login to the account as the website was glitching out every time I went to the log on page. Today I was finally able to get past the login in screen and access some of the DHM tools, but the one I was most interested in, the property finding tool was not working.
It turns out the conversations I had with your staff about the no and low money down programs were very misleading. The tools that you "offer" that I believed set you apart from other HMLs I have researched were not even working. I am very disappointed in the service so far and will be requesting a full refund.
For other new investors out there, I WOULD NOT recommend paying the $3000 dollars to this company.
- Hard Money Lender · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 75 votes7y
I am sorry you have experienced some frustration getting started. When I review your account it appears as though you've not yet met with your account advisor to alk through the back office and show you how things work. Someone will be reaching out to you today.
- Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
This is my first time posting, and I will tend to agree with what has been shared regarding the negative experiences from DHM's "members". I signed up for their "system" on 08/14/2018, like any other newbie thinking that it truly is 100% financing like most others. The $3,495.00 upfront investment is required, and there is no way around having to pay that fee.
To date, I have had multiple issues. The first time, DHM was unable to get their so called evaluators to turn in the evaluations after waiting over 10 days. However, they ended up refunding the $650 "evaluation fee" since none of their realtors they enlisted ever went to the property that I had under contract. That was 45 days of work down the drain and I ended up losing the deal.
I am now under contract on another property, and the comps the evaluators submitted are in no way comparable to any ARV property in my location. During the evaluation process, I went back and forth with customer support to keep abreast about the evaluator submissions. During one of the calls, the young lady shared that they are having a hard time getting evaluators here in Michigan because it is a "new market" for them (her words not mine). I enlisted several realtor friends to contact DHM in order to become evaluators for them since the 2 times I have attempted to use DHM to get a deal financed, that has been the main hold up.
Talking with my "senior consultant" S***n, was not helpful like they try to sell you on either... DHM sticks to the hard line of the "deal is not profitable" no matter what. My mentor who has been in this business for over 15 years and several other individuals I have talked with have never heard of a someone utilizing trulia to pull statistics on a property and claiming that as unquestionable data. @Jacque Fairbourn you have my permission to share the results of the 2 evals submitted on one my deal here on BP. One of the evaluators used by DHM supplied one comp of a $1 active sale 110 miles away, and a $1 recently sold comparable that is supposedly 78 miles away (both with NO ADDRESS provided). A "boarded up property" is any home that literally has the doors and windows boarded up on the home IMHO, yet DHM classifies a "boarded up property" as any property that is vacant or is currently under renovation. To be clear, evaluators used by DHM are encouraged to use the lowest comps they find in the area as was shared with me by my senior consultant.... You will have an extremely difficult time find a profitable property that meets their criteria using their so called "Advanced Deal Analyser" because of how the evaluators are encouraged to develop comps. I get is err on the side of caution, but that is not what they tell you in their so called unique and exceptional learning material/videos or handouts....
I have chalked up my experience with DHM as an expensive $4000 lesson... You are basically paying for a very cheaply made but very expensive community college E-Learning course. I would tell any one to due your due diligence before signing any agreement with DHM. It is your fault as a borrower if you lose money as most Legitimate Hard Money / Private Money Lenders do not require money upfront! The only thing you may pay up front is for an appraisal and that is to a third party appraiser who is able to be researched and found online and verifiable as an appraiser.
- Hard Money Lender · West Jordan, UT · Member since 2015 · 105 posts · 75 votes7y
I will certainly look into your deals and get back with you. The enrollment fee is NOT required. It is required if you have poor credit or no experience and want access to the low or no cash to close funding. All of our other funding options are available without enrolling if your deal meets the specific loan criteria for one of those options. The money upfront is for the system, not for a loan.
- 7yChristi HawkinsPro MemberColumbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 237 posts · 142 votes
@Jay Hinrichs Just to be clear you were the one who described it as a JV partnership but scheme, really? I'm going to try this one more time, the way they set up the LLC is to make it easier in the event of a default. They do an SPE transfer (Special Purpose Entity) instead of going through the full foreclosure process. The borrower either signs over the property voluntarily or it goes to public sale. Because everything is set up in the LLC there is no damage to the borrowers credit. They are managing partners in the LLC but they are NOT partners in the profit the borrower makes on flipping the property. You can call it whatever you want but don't describe it as a scheme
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Christi Hawkins:
@Jay Hinrichs Just to be clear you were the one who described it as a JV partnership but scheme, really? I'm going to try this one more time, the way they set up the LLC is to make it easier in the event of a default. They do an SPE transfer (Special Purpose Entity) instead of going through the full foreclosure process. The borrower either signs over the property voluntarily or it goes to public sale. Because everything is set up in the LLC there is no damage to the borrowers credit. They are managing partners in the LLC but they are NOT partners in the profit the borrower makes on flipping the property. You can call it whatever you want but don't describe it as a scheme
Christi Scheme does not have a negative connotation.. it can be a scheme or a model or what have you but it certainly is a JV deal.. when both lender and borrower are members of an llc that is on its face what it is. Keep in mind most of these borrowers have zero experience and really have no clue. From our interaction your far more sophisticated regarding contracts than the average never done a flip or a hml in my life borrower/client. So you fully understand this.. but it took hundreds of replys on threads to get just one person to actually come out with how they set these deals up.. the owner was not going to do it.
Also no HML reports to fico.. and private foreclosure with lenders that don't report to fico does not show up on your credit.. so that's just another mis leading not true statement. But like I said if I was them and to circumvent the foreclosure time lines in Mortgage states I would do exactly the same thing if the borrowers are no money no experience borrowers.. in essence they are just bird dogs.. What about the 3k needed.. we are back to others saying it mandatory and then the owners saying its not. seems pretty strange that people working in their office would be confused LOL.. this is a pretty simple concept you either do or you don't need the 3k..
- 7yChristi HawkinsPro MemberColumbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 237 posts · 142 votes
Model sounds much better and I wasn't trying to mislead I was just explaining that in the event of a default the borrower lives to fight another day and doesn't end up with a Foreclosure on their record. I really didn't know that was a normal practice with HML's On the 3k, I corrected it somewhere because I was wrong about it, if you want 100% financing it IS mandatory if you don't need 100% financing you do NOT have to put up 3k. I agree about the different statements coming directly from them, it's not a good look. I can say the people I've spoken with have been consistent the entire time, maybe I've been lucky or knew the right questions to ask, I don't know which
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