Green light our first flip!

Green light our first flip!

Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes

My girlfriend and I are about to jump in on our first flip and was hoping to get the green light from people here.

We've been searching for rental properties mainly but happened upon a foreclosure that came up for sale just 2 days ago.

It's a 1100 square foot 4/1.5 situated in a mediocre-good neighborhood. The street it is on is good with a lot of renovated and new construction homes.

While looking at it late last night our realtor found out from the listing agent that there is another offer that came in that day, the listing agent hadn't ran it buy the bank yet, however and will be doing so this afternoon. Ideally we want our offer to come in at the same time...

The house is listed at $29,900, appraised at 108k.
We would come in with 17k cash and take out a 15k personal loan or line of credit (we want to offer $31,500 considering there is another offer?)

The house is really not in bad shape from our first look. Thinking about new drywall, new floors, kitchen remodel and other cosmetic work. We'd do some of the labor (demo, we can lay down flooring) and contract the rest. Rough estimate looks at 15-18k renovation tops.

We'd hope to list the house for 100k. Comps in the area:
6/28/10: 128k for a 3/1 903 sq ft renovated home 1 block down

5/27/10: 81k for a 2/1 672 sq ft renovated home 1 block down

7/23/10: 94.8k for a 2/1.5 700 sq ft total renovation 2 blocks down

10/04/10: 96k for a 4/2 1400 sq ft not renovated .2 miles down

7/2/10: 121k for a 3/1 1100 sq ft .1 miles down

Thoughts?

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Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
15y

With apologies - maybe you thought all this through already and I'm preaching to the choir. Maybe not and I'll give you a few thinking points!

For doing a large amount of sheetrock (Over, say, 50 boards), I'd expect to pay $13/board hung and finished... plus the cost of the board and mud and tape, so about $20/board by the time all is said and done.

For a job the size you're talking, you need to find a crew that has the tools to do it right... by that I mean a bazooka, drum sanders, stilts, etc. DO NOT hire a chump with a set of knives and a bucket of mud. You will be disappointed.

HOWEVER... Before you jump into replacing all the sheetrock, you need to take a step back and consider that it won't just be sheetrock you're dealing with.

You'll need to pull off ALL the trim... possibly replacing a lot of it when it inevitably breaks in the process. Then you'll have to pay someone to repair it, nail it back into place... caulk and paint.

Also, if the wall board is a different thickness than sheetrock you may run into an issue with the window and door casings needing to be adjusted for the difference in thickness.

Not to mention the time and money spent tearing out all the sheetrock and surgically removing the trim, labeling it, storing it, etc.

Also, a painter is going to charge extra to paint virgin rock. He'll need to prime, then coat twice to make it right. He won't be able to go through the house with a single coat of good paint and let it go at that like he could with already-painted rock.

The sheetrock guy will need to come back after the primer coat and do touchup work...

All of this means that your paint and sheetrock will take 2-3 times longer than it would if you just painted the wall board.

In other words, replacing all the sheetrock in a house is a gift that can keep right on giving... think long, long and hard before you go tearing it out!

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  • Rental Property Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2008 · 189 posts · 75 votes
    15y

    Gotta agree with Ryan O, get on the exterior. I've made the mistake of holding off only to have 2-3 weeks of bad weather. When the weather breaks all the contractors are taking care of their big accounts while I am paying another month of holding cost. Anytime you can have multiple jobs going without interference between them you are saving holding costs.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Thanks guys, I definitely planned on having exterior guys starting work prior to the interior finishing..

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    So I've been tossing around the idea of converting the 1/2 bath into a full. to do so, I'd have to tear down a wall and convert the adjacent room's closet into the shower, plus frame up a new closet in said room.

    Even with doing so the bathroom is still very small. With the wall tear down the shower could still only be 60x29 at the most with the toilet having only about 6 inches of clearance between the shower.

    Forget trying to put a 1 piece shower in the space... I'd have to build the shower from the ground up using tile. Also, an open type shower with just a single glass enclosure could save a few inches... maybe something like this

    http://freshome.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/small-bathroom_glass-shower.jpg

    Has anyone done something like this and if so would you recommend it?

    I almost want to say to myself to K.I.S.S. and keep it 1.5 bath...

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Update:

    House is moving right along. Got behind schedule due to a delay in financing (see my other thread) but everything is back up and running now.

    Some milestones -
    Structure was fixed, 2 piers were added
    Wall dividing kitchen and living room removed
    Wood paneling removed and drywall hung
    Electric upgraded, new fixtures

    This weekend -
    Work starts on the roof and siding
    Drywall finished
    Paint begins

    Quick notes and lessons learned -
    Negotiate with EVERY contractor, I've agreed to pay the full bid price from 2 contractors only because their bid seemed fair at the time and was substantially lower than competitors. In hindsight, I probably could have squeezed out 10-15% from these deals.

    Keep track of the measurements contractors are taking. I've had some say the siding on my house would need 18 square of siding while others were as low as only 12 square.

    Do not schedule electricity to be turned on the same day as work to begin. If so, be prepared for the city to show up promptly at 4:00 PM

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2011 · 252 posts · 56 votes
    15y

    Sounds like everything is moving along pretty nicely. What did you decide to do with the half bath? We did a shower only in the master (although its a 25 sq foot shower) and I have a feeling thats why no offers have come in yet. It should be alright in the spare though.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    We decided to k.i.s.s. and keep the home a 1.5bath. I don't regret in in hindsight. After much though, we concluded that having a 1.5 bath will be less of a risk than stuffing an extra small shower in an already tight bathroom. We just didn't want any big negative feature of the house to stick in the minds of would-be buyers.

    With that said, good luck with your house Jim!

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2011 · 70 posts · 11 votes
    15y

    Congrats!
    You aren't using a general contractor right? If so I recommend showing up to the property everyday, multiple times if possible. Just make sure every work is being done on time.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Well I had subcontractors lined up for everything...

    Midway through rehab my sider/roofer offered to finish the house for a good price with very little management on my part. I saw some of his previous work and was convinced that he could get it done. So, I'am off to a wedding in Chicago now while the house is finishing up by the 8th. I have a buddy who I'll be paying a little to check up on the property for me once or twice a day. The contractor has agreed to send me pics periodically and I plan to call everyday to see how things are going.

    Hoping this doesn't come back to bite me in the butt later.

    oh and last question: When looking for a real estate agent is it customary to hold meetings at the property for interviews? I'm interested in what agents are coming up with in terms of marketing strategies, ARV, etc.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    The rehab is complete and it's been on the market since Monday. A lot of positive comments from neighbors! Hoping for a quick sale at $109,000. For that price the new owners should be getting a lot of value for their money. Pics below:

  • Rental Property Investor · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2011 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    15y

    Please keep us updated! I'm about to start my first flip, and like to see there are others being successful at this as well.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Finally got the pics to work! Pics:

    PS: The countertops and microwave hood come in tomorrow due to a last minute delay. Decided to list anyway as I didn't want to lose another couple of days of market time.

  • Wholesaler · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 294 posts · 152 votes
    15y

    The house looks good. Did you stick to your original budget?

  • Real Estate Investor · Salem, OR · Member since 2011 · 422 posts · 149 votes
    15y

    It looks great, you guys did some great work!!! The negative I can see is the lack of curb appeal "thanks google earth". The house doesn't really fit in the neighborhood.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    We did go over budget, roughly 6k actually. Some unexpected termite work plus deciding after the fact to replace the roof accounted for most of that 6k. Also, small items and contractor nickel and diming definitely helped put us over budget. We made a lot of mistakes on this house but hopefully it'll all be worth it if it sells. We plan to list for 3 months and if no one buys we'll look for renters.

    @Rusty: The curb appeal was a big issue for us. We hope the landscaping, new siding, shutters, and the new porch rail will help offset some of the curb appeal. We think it's enough to get potential buyers into the house, once inside we hope the interior blows them away.

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Quick update: Got a full price offer plus $2k today! Buyer is using VA financing. Now we just have to pass inspection and hope it appraises for that much...

    Any tips on a smooth closing?

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2011 · 252 posts · 56 votes
    15y

    congrats man...about 3 weeks on market and full price offer. Nice work.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2011 · 475 posts · 141 votes
    15y

    House looks great! Way to knock it out of the park on the first one.

    My wife is working with a client on the first VA loan we have ever handled, so I don't have much advice on how that works.

    I can say avoid Wells Fargo if there is any way. I'm pretty sure Satan himself handles the underwriting for WF.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Congrats Glenn!

    In my experience, VA is a bit tougher on inspections and will often reinspect after repairs are made to verify. Other than that, they aren't much different than any other lending program, and for the most part, the VA loans I've dealt with have been pretty easy (though that may just be coincidence :)...

  • Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2011 · 446 posts · 171 votes
    15y

    Finally closed on this one earlier this week. Appraisal came back good. However, buyer was really picky with inspection and repairs and that gave me more headache than anything else during this flip. Ended up spending an extra 2.5k on repairs than I initially thought... More details to come and more number crunching but initial numbers looks like we'll clear just north of 25k, market time 14 days, and 2 1/2 months total from buying the property.

    I'll be back with the ROI and other stats soon! Thanks for all the tips guys/gals. I DEFINITELY learned a lot and can't wait to apply the knowledge onto the next deal.

    -Glenn

  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Glenn Espinosa:
    Finally closed on this one earlier this week. Appraisal came back good. However, buyer was really picky with inspection and repairs and that gave me more headache than anything else during this flip. Ended up spending an extra 2.5k on repairs than I initially thought... More details to come and more number crunching but initial numbers looks like we'll clear just north of 25k, market time 14 days, and 2 1/2 months total from buying the property.

    I'll be back with the ROI and other stats soon! Thanks for all the tips guys/gals. I DEFINITELY learned a lot and can't wait to apply the knowledge onto the next deal.

    -Glenn

    Congrats Glenn. What a great job, I look forward to seeing the final numbers!

  • Wholesaler · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 294 posts · 152 votes
    15y

    Congrats on the sale... I love seeing another REI completing a deal!

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