AC and Copper Theft Issues
Rehabber · Lake Conroe Area, TX · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 15 votes
I've had two condenser units on two different houses stolen (one was just the copper) in the last few weeks. It's very frustrating as you know, and always seems to happen when the house is for sale.
I've read through some comments but just thought I would start a new topic to get some ideas from fellow rehabbers or landlords on ways to prevent theft or vandalism. In my situation, it's specifically been HVAC related, but I've seen all kinds.
Anyone use cameras?
Any comments or ideas are greatly appreciated.
A pad lock on the disconnect may also slow down a more novice thug, when it comes to stealing a condensor.
You could also pour a concrete pad and possibly bolt the condensor down to the pad.
As it pertains to a theft on the day of the close, I think it would be the problem of the person owning the property at the time it was noticed. If the deal closed and then it was noticed, I think you're off the hook. The downside of putting a cage on the unit is that it will send a bad message to potential buyers. You're in a tough spot either way.
Folks, you can get as "secure" as you want and there is still no guarantees. IMO, you are looking for easy and inexpensive deterrents that make the neighbor's house more attractive to crooks. Real cameras are great, but they don't physically stop the theft. *MAYBE* you catch the perp and you feel good about it, but was it really worth the money and the trouble to play Dick Tracey? If something costs a couple hundred bucks, I certainly don't want to ALSO have to baby sit it.
Security measures should be considered along with the potential profits and actual value of a unit. I'm not going to spend $1,000 turning my D property into Fort Knox. I will use my cheap deterrents and take my chances. This is just another part of the risk to consider when investing in a property. Ironically, the units that need the most securing are the ones in the crappiest neighborhoods that are worth the least...
I am curious to know if the 50 percent rule resulting from the nationwide apartment study accounted for vandalism and theft expenses as well as standard maintenance. I suppose it would have as I don't see repairs for vandalism and theft being accounted for differently than any other repair....
I've heard of some thieves backing up a pickup and ripping the cages right out...
Security measures should be considered along with the potential profits and actual value of a unit...
Brian,
I absolutely agree! I was just addressing some of the earlier posts offering free education on some of the equipment and systems out there for the gamut of investor properties represented. I certainly wouldn't spend much money on a shack in the war zone of south central LA but I might spend a bit more on expensive work and/or materials sitting at a job site in West LA, Hollywood Hills, etc. where SFR's can go for $2M-$3M and up.
For good bread & butter working class rental/resale rehabs I'd opt for posting "video surv in use signs" motion sensor lights outside, a timer on a radio & lamp inside and talk to the neighbors. Heck you might make some friends and learn of other properties you can acquire in the process!
BTW, in case you didn't catch it in my comments - if someone really wants in their going to get in. If they're disturbed, doped up, illiterate, the psychology/logic of most deterrents will be lost having no effect. Best to make your property less attractive to an opportunist so they move down the block to an easier target.
LA
This used to be very common in my area. I saw damage to REOs that just didn't make sence. The amount of labor that was spent on ripping out the copper was huge...I bet at the end of the day, they didn't make much more per hour than if they would have just gotten a minimum wage job.
The good news is that a couple years ago in my county (possible the entire state of California?) passed new laws that cracked down on scrap yards/dealers. Everything that comes in is documented now. They photograph your car, trailer, licence, and your face. I think there are even limits to how much copper you can bring in. This pretty much stopped the problem.
LA
Larry, I am thankful for your input and it was coincidental my post appeared after yours and was not directed at anyone per say. I shared on this post earlier and when it popped up again it reminded me that since the last time I posted, I started considering the cost/benefit ratio of security precautions. I hear people talk about ripping out copper to put in pex to reduce maintenance and vandalism. Then I think "why not just wait until (if) something happens before spending the money?" There can't be that big of an advantage to replacing something that is in place vs replacing something that has been stolen. This is an extreme example, but it just got me thinking about the subject in general.
BH-
I agree these criminals will steal ANYTHING, especially when on drugs, etc... They even stole my cage at a few properties!!
The problem with getting the AC stolen here in SW Florida isn't replacing the unit (especially when insurance covers it)... its the mold removal and remediation. With no AC in a vacant property here, in particular during summer months the mold thrives.
The second unit that was stolen at my last property hit was when I was away on vacation. Didn't discover it until 2 weeks later.
Insurance was ready to drop me, not because it was the second AC unit they had to replace but because of the mold removal and remediation costs... nearly 3 times more than the replacement ac unit!!
The system I have now would have sent me a text message and called me to say the unit was tampered with or stolen. That's the only reason my carrier didn't drop me.
Take it from someone who knows... be proactive and protect your ac unit BEFORE they steal it.
Police reports, insurance deductible, battling with the insurance company... then waiting for the claim to be approved and get paid. The whole process with insurance took me over a month, then almost another month to get the mold taken care of and the AC replaced, all the while my investment property sat vacant.
The A/C Trax unit... well worth the investment. I don't EVER want to deal with this nightmare again.
Gene-
They passed a similar law here in FL a few months ago (Lee and Collier Counties). The scrap yards make so much money taking this copper in illegally at a cut throat rate that the profit is HUGE for them in the end! Now the thieves are stealing twice as many units to make up for the lower prices they're being paid. Its like nobody stopped them at all.
This problem is MUCH MUCH bigger than a local law will ever fix.
some times I take the copper plumbing out and put it on the lawn, then go back with Pex. Word sometimes get around that the copper is already gone since it had been sitting outside for the taking.
Every single time I replaced the units they were stolen AGAIN within 3-4 months.
FINALLY came across this company called Asset Trax. I ordered one of there ac trax units for a new condenser when we installed it instead of a cage. Units been untouched for 5 months.
The unit cost me $199 vs the $400 something I paid per cage.
Last week I replaced all my cages with these units.
Website is http://www.easygpsonline.com
Definitely recommend checking them out. I dealt with a man named Bruce.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the great recommendation Jim!
A solution to consider...
1. Install a tree stand within twenty yards of AC unit.
2. Purchase a bow and a quiver full of arrows with dull broadheads. (Shotgun will work just fine but may alert other prey to your presence.)
3. Hang copper fittings along path to unit as an attractant.
Happy hunting!!
My 2 cents... buy a Hunting/Game Camera with cellular uplink. $300 The camera sends the picture to your phone within 60 seconds of motion activation. $20/month for service. Only pay on months needed. See photo of thief in the act. Then call the police and catch them in the act.
What I normally do on flips, is not have the outside unit installed until after the new buyer closes. Write it in the contract, home builders do this a lot around here.
Crazy how many people on here get their units stolen. I can't imagine the nerve people have to go and steal such an item. It's obvious all of you should use pex instead of copper when you can and when you can't you just need to get those walls closed up as fast as possible and find ways to prevent people from getting inside. Main thing is closing up the walls. Work long extra hours side by side with you contractor, pay him extra to work long hours to get the walls closed. Out smart the dumb crooks and you will be better off.
i have vacant units in war zones, and have had good luck with simplisafe security systems. you could use these outside as well. they also come with crazy loud alarms that can be installed on the outside. since i have been using these, i haven't had any major losses. it is easy to move them and re-install them as needed at new locations.