Luxury Vinyl Plank or Refinished Hardwood Floors?

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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Luxury Vinyl Plank or Refinished Hardwood Floors?

Jason Zeiner
Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes

I have just begun on my first property renovation and my initial plan was to install LVP in the entire first floor and install new carpet on the stairs and second floor. That was until I pulled up a corner of the carpet to discover hardwood floors underneath. It seems like the entire house may have hardwood floors and now I have to decide if I want to refinish them instead.

Looking up rates for refinishing hardwood floors appears to be between $3.50-$5 per square foot where LVP starts at around ~$2.80 per square foot. The tradeoff is the refinishing rates are for someone else to do the job where the LVP numbers are materials only and I would install it myself.

The strategy for this property is to rehab then rent it out. So I'm not going to for maximum re-sale value like I would if it were a flip. Since this is a rental would you rather have the durability of LVP or is hardwood good enough? Those with hardwood floors, have you noticed any issues with your tenants damaging them, especially with pets?

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Joe P.
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
6y

I'm surprised people have said hardwoods, especially for a rental. Even if they're weren't old pine as described, I'd probably still put LVP down.

Hardwoods might net you some extra money for renting, but where you'll REALLY see the return is if you were selling.

Hardwoods would prevent you from renting to people with pets -- pets will destroy hardwood especially if its weak. As will moving around furniture and general wear and tear.

If its my property and its a buy-and-hold, I'm putting down the vinyl and getting 20+ years out of it while its rented. Then if I want to sell, I'm ripping it up (for free, not hard to do on your own), and having a professional refinish.

We're not talking astronomical differences in rents for hardwoods versus LVP -- its not like people pay $200 more a month because of a difference in flooring. I've seen LVP as durable and almost as nice as hardwoods these days, so most people don't even know the difference unless you specialize in high-end rentals. The market (for 90%+ of rentals) will dictate your rent, e.g. 1 bedroom nets $500, 2 bedroom nets $1000, etc. You adding hardwoods is not going to make those numbers 700 and 1200. 550 and 1050? Maybe. But refinishing them just to get ruined in 5 years by people who don't care about it...and it would be considered wear and tear...is not worth it.

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  • Don Meinke
    Investor · Northeast, NE · Member since 2015 · 258 posts · 83 votes
    6y

    No question, refinish the hardwood.  Buy and explain felt furniture pads for ALL legs of every piece.  Explain how expensive ANY scratches will be, damage charged to them.  I have seen lots of crappy scratched up vinyl plank too.

    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    Don, thanks for the input.

    I learned a lesson when talking with a contractor about the floors. Unfortunately, it turns out the "hardwood" floors are really just old pine subfloors. When the house was built there was no OSB or plywood and pine boards were what was used. What this means for me is that I will need a new subfloor to level everything out before putting in vinyl plank. 

    1Reply
  • Billy Smith
    Shawnee Mission, KS · Member since 2016 · 719 posts · 313 votes
    6y

    Hardwood floors gets more money most of the time .

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jason Zeiner:

    Don, thanks for the input.

    I learned a lesson when talking with a contractor about the floors. Unfortunately, it turns out the "hardwood" floors are really just old pine subfloors. When the house was built there was no OSB or plywood and pine boards were what was used. What this means for me is that I will need a new subfloor to level everything out before putting in vinyl plank. 

    Hi, Jason. You're not the first on this board to mistake old plank subfloors for something else. Good luck, man.

    1Reply
  • Brian Ellis
    Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Heres a thought.. Salvage the antique pine and use that as flooring over the new subfloor.

    0Reply
  • Clayton Boyle
    Real Estate Agent · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 97 posts · 76 votes
    6y

    Sand down the peaks, edges, etc and any hardware sticking out of the pine subfloor, clean it and then install LVP over that. You should be able to get the subfloor pretty close to level and able to install something over it. 

    4Reply
  • Jack I.
    Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 24 votes
    6y

    LVP is the way to go, virtually indestructible if you get the high quality stuff and install it yourself. 

    3Reply
  • Jeff Kobernus
    Real Estate Agent · El Dorado Hills · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 41 votes
    6y

    Hardwood no question about it!

    1Reply
  • Joe P.
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I'm surprised people have said hardwoods, especially for a rental. Even if they're weren't old pine as described, I'd probably still put LVP down.

    Hardwoods might net you some extra money for renting, but where you'll REALLY see the return is if you were selling.

    Hardwoods would prevent you from renting to people with pets -- pets will destroy hardwood especially if its weak. As will moving around furniture and general wear and tear.

    If its my property and its a buy-and-hold, I'm putting down the vinyl and getting 20+ years out of it while its rented. Then if I want to sell, I'm ripping it up (for free, not hard to do on your own), and having a professional refinish.

    We're not talking astronomical differences in rents for hardwoods versus LVP -- its not like people pay $200 more a month because of a difference in flooring. I've seen LVP as durable and almost as nice as hardwoods these days, so most people don't even know the difference unless you specialize in high-end rentals. The market (for 90%+ of rentals) will dictate your rent, e.g. 1 bedroom nets $500, 2 bedroom nets $1000, etc. You adding hardwoods is not going to make those numbers 700 and 1200. 550 and 1050? Maybe. But refinishing them just to get ruined in 5 years by people who don't care about it...and it would be considered wear and tear...is not worth it.

    6Reply
  • David Kelly
    Specialist · Saint Joseph, MI · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 56 votes
    6y

    @Jason Seiner 

    Old pine sub-floors are beaufil sanded down. The look great natural or stained. anything under 4$ a sq ft is good. I run a hardwood business on the side of my real-estate marketing company and we sand those down all the time. Ill post photos shortly.

    2Reply
  • David Kelly
    Specialist · Saint Joseph, MI · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 56 votes
    6y

    @Jason Seiner

    These are old subfloors. Just get them natural and put new coats one between tenants. By far the cheapest and highest quality way of doing this. 

    6Reply
  • Aaron Taylor
    Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes
    6y

    Having done both, this is what I would say:

    Both scratch (at least the high end Home Depot stuff does), and they're both going to be decently expensive to install compared to carpet.  If you have any sort of water issues, LVP is the worst to pull up.  Water will sit on hardwood (or soak in some), soak into carpet, but will seap underneath LVP so you have to pull it up (which is awful).

    I've put some LVP in bathrooms, kitchens, etc.  It was a mistake, I should have done tile.  Not that I've had issues there yet, but tile would have been cheaper, more durable, and more easily repairable.

    If I had to do some of them again, I would do (in this order):

    Tile

    Carpet

    Hardwood

    LVP

    Tile is more durable/repairable and costs the same about (maybe cheaper), carpet can be dirt cheap and install is cheap/fast, hardwood can be refinished and lasts a long time.  LVP is more of grey area right now as far as long term results.

    I actually used LVP on the advice of this forum.  In hindsight, it would have been far better for me to do more tile/carpet and use LVP sparingly.  Tile will outlast LVP and carpet's like 1/2 the cost installed, so it's hard for me to make a compelling LVP argument.  Like if the faucet in the kitchen breaks and leaks all over the floor, you'd be ok with tile or hardwood...LVP you're probably going to have to pull up unless the supposedly waterproof joints work.

    I guess my advice is, LVP is great unless you have an issue with it (broken plank, water).  Then it's a nightmare, at least for the click joint stuff.

    0Reply
  • Lane Babb
    Investor · United States · Member since 2020 · 19 posts · 13 votes
    6y

    Wow David those floors are looking great. Also, I just ran into this same dilemma in my most recent buy and hold. I bought a property with LVF downstairs and some nasty carpet upstairs. The carpet had pine subfloor beneath it. I still haven't done anything with it, so this thread has been a great resource for that. 

    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ellis:

    Heres a thought.. Salvage the antique pine and use that as flooring over the new subfloor.

     That is possible but I am not sure it is worth doing in this case. Pine is a fairly soft wood and with this being a rental I would be worried about durability. I also get the feeling this would be much more labor and time intensive and this really needs to get done as soon as possible. 

    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    I'm surprised people have said hardwoods, especially for a rental. Even if they're weren't old pine as described, I'd probably still put LVP down.

    Hardwoods might net you some extra money for renting, but where you'll REALLY see the return is if you were selling.

    Hardwoods would prevent you from renting to people with pets -- pets will destroy hardwood especially if its weak. As will moving around furniture and general wear and tear.

    If its my property and its a buy-and-hold, I'm putting down the vinyl and getting 20+ years out of it while its rented. Then if I want to sell, I'm ripping it up (for free, not hard to do on your own), and having a professional refinish.

    We're not talking astronomical differences in rents for hardwoods versus LVP -- its not like people pay $200 more a month because of a difference in flooring. I've seen LVP as durable and almost as nice as hardwoods these days, so most people don't even know the difference unless you specialize in high-end rentals. The market (for 90%+ of rentals) will dictate your rent, e.g. 1 bedroom nets $500, 2 bedroom nets $1000, etc. You adding hardwoods is not going to make those numbers 700 and 1200. 550 and 1050? Maybe. But refinishing them just to get ruined in 5 years by people who don't care about it...and it would be considered wear and tear...is not worth it.

    I am also surprised that I didn't see other comments mentioning this. Considering the rental market in this area, it isn't going to be a high end rental that needs hardwood floors. I think I'm landing on the side of LVP for this project.

    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @David Kelly:

    @Jason Seiner

    These are old subfloors. Just get them natural and put new coats one between tenants. By far the cheapest and highest quality way of doing this. 

     Those floors look amazing. Though I am leaning towards LVP I will ask my contractor if he can handle refinishing the pine boards and what the price difference would be.

    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:

    Having done both, this is what I would say:

    Both scratch (at least the high end Home Depot stuff does), and they're both going to be decently expensive to install compared to carpet.  If you have any sort of water issues, LVP is the worst to pull up.  Water will sit on hardwood (or soak in some), soak into carpet, but will seap underneath LVP so you have to pull it up (which is awful).

    I've put some LVP in bathrooms, kitchens, etc.  It was a mistake, I should have done tile.  Not that I've had issues there yet, but tile would have been cheaper, more durable, and more easily repairable.

    If I had to do some of them again, I would do (in this order):

    Tile

    Carpet

    Hardwood

    LVP

    Tile is more durable/repairable and costs the same about (maybe cheaper), carpet can be dirt cheap and install is cheap/fast, hardwood can be refinished and lasts a long time.  LVP is more of grey area right now as far as long term results.

    I actually used LVP on the advice of this forum.  In hindsight, it would have been far better for me to do more tile/carpet and use LVP sparingly.  Tile will outlast LVP and carpet's like 1/2 the cost installed, so it's hard for me to make a compelling LVP argument.  Like if the faucet in the kitchen breaks and leaks all over the floor, you'd be ok with tile or hardwood...LVP you're probably going to have to pull up unless the supposedly waterproof joints work.

    I guess my advice is, LVP is great unless you have an issue with it (broken plank, water).  Then it's a nightmare, at least for the click joint stuff.

     I am a bit surprised by this. Everything I've heard about LVP is how durable and easy to repair it is. If a plank is damaged just pull it out and pop a new one in. I know that many modern LVP products are marketed as waterproof. Personally I would expect them to be more water resistant than actually waterproof. In the LVP you used, did it claim to be waterproof?

    0Reply
  • David Kelly
    Specialist · Saint Joseph, MI · Member since 2019 · 29 posts · 56 votes
    6y

    @Jason Zeiner, Dont let a normal contractor sand the floor. He will butcher it. Find a true sand and refinish guy. 

    0Reply
  • Max T.
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Refinish the pine.

    It will look great.

    And should last another 100 years with refinishing every 3-5 years.

    You already have the wood. The pro crew will be done in 1-2 days. You can DIY it yourself if you really want to save money.

    Ive done it before but prefer to sub out nowadays.

    LVP is my choice only when the wood can't be saved.

    1Reply
  • Clayton Boyle
    Real Estate Agent · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 97 posts · 76 votes
    6y

    The click-lock floating LVP planks cannot just be removed from the middle of a room. If a piece breaks and you want to replace it, you need to work your way back from a parallel wall to get to that one plank. The thing is, if installed over a properly prepared subfloor, and the LVP product is of a high enough quality, it will last a very long time and is very durable. It's not hard to install correctly and in my experience is nearly indestructible when done right. 

    2Reply
  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    One of the reasons I would cover wood floors in an old house is that many of these older homes have no insulation under the floor. Here in Georgia, we have some older houses that have no insulation anywhere in the structure. Another layer of flooring can provide some additional R-value and draft reduction in these older homes.

    0Reply
  • Michael Robbins
    Property Manager · Henderson, NV · Member since 2018 · 501 posts · 317 votes
    6y

    What looks better?  What do you think would be more impressive to the tenant: the LVP or wood floors?  If you believe that you can get a better rental rate out of the hardwood floors then I would stick with that.  When it comes time to rent the property make sure all your angle stops, laundry valve shut offs, etc.. are in excellent condition.  And when it comes time to screen your tenants be firm in your qualifications.  

    0Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    LVP is waterproof....it completely made of vinyl The issue with LVP over hardwood is that if you do get significant water intrusion, it will get to the hardwood under it and cause issues but the LVP will be fine. Guess I would lean towards LVP..... I can DIY it and save $$ and it will last longer with near zero maintenance. When and if it comes time to sell, I may very well remove it and restore the hardwood....... that will up the resale for sure
    0Reply
  • Jason Zeiner
    OP
    Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2019 · 16 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    I asked the contractor about refinishing the floors. He says the gaps between the boards is too large. I think for the sake of simplicity and speed I'll be going with LVP on this project. I'd like to get this place cash flowing as soon as possible and I don't want to source and schedule another contractor who's work might interrupt or delay all the other work going on.

    Thank you all for your input. I will keep it in mind for the next project.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jason Zeiner:

    I asked the contractor about refinishing the floors. He says the gaps between the boards is too large. I think for the sake of simplicity and speed I'll be going with LVP on this project. I'd like to get this place cash flowing as soon as possible and I don't want to source and schedule another contractor who's work might interrupt or delay all the other work going on.

    Thank you all for your input. I will keep it in mind for the next project.

     Lots of differing opinions right??? 

    That's because all flooring has pros and cons, and no perfect flooring exists.

    I love floating systems. The floor will need to be flat, some products are more forgiving on that score than others. Hardwood floors often make for a fantastic underlay. Your pine subfloor will probably be great, just look for any warped boards or nails popping up. I've been using Lifeproof from HD and like it's thickness, flexibility and soft feel when you walk on it. There are lots of options out there. The thinner and stiffer options need a really flat floor. The great thing about floating systems is how easy they go in AND how easy they come out. That makes a great option for landlords who replace flooring much more often than they care to. NEVER NEVER NEVER GLUE ANYTHING IF YOU CAN AVOID IT.

    As far as hardwood, refinishing it for a rental is a treacherous endeavor. I would only advise that after it is truly too far gone and only in markets that demand it. Marginal floors are often best left alone, just tell the renter to get a damn throw rug and call it a day - a little lemon oil works wonders too. Nothing wrong with a buff/spot stain and poly either. However, by accident/experiment, I've learned that it is ridiculously easy to give a horrible hardwood floor with a million coats of old finish on it a quick scuff sand and a paint. Then apply a couple good coats of poly and presto, the floor looks like new and will be just as durable as anything else (it's the poly that protects). I think this option is fantastic for many rental markets. After refinishing a duplex of floors myself, I will NEVER refinish a floor myself again. Sure, it turned out fantastic on my first try thank you very much, but I lost 20 pounds doing it - no joke - worst experience of my life and I actually enjoy physical labor (it's the damn edging sanders). Best to leave that task to the guys that do it everyday. Finally, bravo to those that have pointed out a pine sub-floor can be turned into a beautiful finished floor. 

    Sounds like I am late to the party, but maybe this helps for the next time or, maybe it helps make you feel better about the decision you've made.

    Happy rehabbing!

    1Reply
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