Using home equity instead of Hard Money

Using home equity instead of Hard Money

Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes

Hello BP community,

My husband and I have equity in our home and our rental. We want to expand our portfolio with hopes to be financially free. My husband does not like the idea of getting a HELOC for he thinks it is too risky. I introduced him the option of financing with hard money. He feels better to finance through hard money since you do not jeopardize your own house. On the other hand, I feel that by getting a HELOC we may pay less interest and may be easier to get the money. I believe we would be able to raise over 100k with a HELOC.

We've never done a flip or a BRRRR. The only experience we have is renovating our own properties.

Which approach would you think it is smarter for a first time flippers or BRRRR.

Thank you,

Rafaella

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Jeff CichockiBusiness Member
Lender · All 50 States · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 250 votes
6y

@Rafaella Almeida, 

Before I answer your question... In full disclosure, I'm a Hard Money Lender. However, I'm also an investor just like you. My business partner & I started out flipping and renting houses just like everyone else. Sometimes, we wholesale a house off when we have too many projects going on at the same time. I look at things from both sides of the coin because I'm playing both sides.

speaking practically, your question doesn't have a right or wrong answer. 

The correct answer is the one that makes both you and your husband the most comfortable. Just because someone says that a HELOC is dangerous or that HM is dangerous does not make them dangerous. And, expensive is relative to the deal. Typically those that tell you how bad a HELOC or HM is don't know how to use either properly. A HELOC is a tool. A HML is a tool. When used improperly, people get hurt. So... Let me walk you though the difference between the two.

1. HELOC's provide easy and fast access to cash. They usually have lower fees, lower interest rates, lower monthly payments and they typically come with checkbook control. They are extremely flexible and can be very be very powerful. But, your husband is right. As good as those benefits sound, they come with an added risk to your family. You are essentially betting your family home that you will be successful and that nothing will go wrong in the flip. Unfortunately, bad things happen to good people. If something goes wrong and your HELOC is tapped out, what will you do to recover? If all of a sudden you have to take a loss, can you afford it? What will happen to your family home if you get in to far over your head? What your husband is worried about is real. It may never happen, but it's still real to him. HELOC's can be a great tool, but you have to go in completely understanding the rules and risks and weighing it out for your family.

2. HM is a very powerful tool. You can get into houses with little to no money down, you get an extra pair of eyes validating the deal for you, you have someone looking over your shoulder making sure you and your contractors are staying on task and you don't have your personal residence tied into the deal in any way. However, being able to get into a deal with little to none of your own money comes at a cost. HML's typically charge points and a higher interest rate. Some charge additional fees (sometimes ridiculous fees). But, when's the last time an investor got a house under contract and ran around telling everyone that they can't wait to lose money in the deal. It doesn't happen. No one ever expects to fail. If they did, they would never do the deal. Way to many borrowers neglect the fact that despite not thinking they'll fail, they do. HML's are much lower risk on the gran scheme of things. If it goes sideways, you lose the property, not your house. Safety comes at a price. But, what's the real price? Unfortunately, few people seem to understand the difference between cost and making less. A cost is money you pull out of your pocket. A good lender will roll most if not all of your fees into the loan meaning they are paid on the back-end out of the profits of the flip. When you pay on the back-end, you make less; but you didn't experience a cost to do that.

When I speak at the REIA's, I try to educate my borrowers how to think like a lender. If you can learn how a lender thinks, you become a much better borrower. You learn how to use the tools to their maximum advantage. The easiest way to win this game to become and expert craftsman of the tools you wield. If you understand the true risks of the loan, you'll be able to get HM almost will. You'll also be able to build a nice little portfolio that you can show to potential private lenders (usually the best way to borrow money; but not always - I can tell you lots of horror stories about bad private lenders). Over time, you'll convert most of your financial needs to private capital. Once you do that, HM and HELOC's become a back burner item for you.

Good luck. I'm always happy to help where I can.

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  • Member since 2019 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    This is exactly what I have just done. I took out a HELOC on my home which was paid off so I could get started in real estate investing. I had no closing cost at all so it did not cost me a penny. I did not take 80% or 90% however... I only took what was needed to get started. I paid off some debt with a small amount of it which monthly I was paying more than my new loan payment is. Risky? Yes.

    I am minimizing my risk by purchasing a property I will be living in to renovate. I plan on selling my home anyway so I essentially just took out some of my profit from the sell early. With the remaining proceeds i will buy a property to BRRRR then build from that.

    There are still risks but I believe I’ve taken a safe approach to limit my risks as much as I could.

    Look at all of your numbers. Are you making a large payment on something monthly? If you used part of the HELOC to pay it off would the HELOC payment be less or about the same? I don't know if this will work for you but I thought I would throw the idea out there.

  • Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Dawn Simpson thank you Dawn for sharing your experience. Besides our mortgage we do not have any other debt. No credit cards, no college loans, no car payments.

    We have some money put aside and just trying to see what makes sense.

  • Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 25 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Trevor Plante:

    Hi Rafaella, 

    Being your first flip however, I suggest you present the deal to several hard money lenders. Pricing shopping is the obvious benefit, but perhaps more important is to have your deal underwritten by several lenders. If the deal can be scrutinized and approved by a few lenders you're likely in a solid position. Yes, hard money costs will eat into your profits, but it's a way to mitigate some risk on your first deal. Just ask about each lenders borrower profitability standards. Also, most hard money lenders won't finance 100% of your first deal, so perhaps the HELOC can be used for down payment.

    I wish someone told me all this in the beginning! This might be a dumb question, but I'm assuming HMLs only invest in markets they know numbers for very well? In that case, I could theoretically get confirmation that my deal is, in fact, a deal and be less hesitant by analysis paralysis. This is gold. Thanks!

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2017 · 59 posts · 138 votes
    6y

    @Sam Shueh I agree. With the HELOC you could survive a market correction by renting the property until it likely recovers. HMLs are a lot shorter and less forgiving

  • Jeff CichockiBusiness Member
    Lender · All 50 States · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 250 votes
    6y

    @Darius Ogloza, I completely understand what your saying and it makes sense to be worried about it. Just because I never have, doesn't mean I never would. To me and most lenders out there, its a cost vs benefit analysis. It depends on the dollar amount as to whether or not a lender would come after a borrower.

    I'm not an attorney, but my understanding is that a lender without a mortgage against the property can't forcefully take it. They can't force the sale. But, yes they could put a lien against it. Yes they can collect when you sell; but not until. The scenario you're concerned about is also the same if you take any other form of unsecured debt (credit cards, etc.).

    Being brutally honest, most borrowers don't consider this aspect when they borrow. Most don't have a ton of equity either to worry about. For most, it's not a concern to them. Maybe it should be though. Unfortunately, most people don't have the financial education to even they should be.

    Good luck.

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  • Lender · Member since 2019 · 86 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    @Rafaella Almeida Find the right leverage 80% LTV with great interest 4.5% close in 2 weeks for investing and growing portfolio that won't jeopardize your primary

  • Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Nicole Heasley I agree Nicole. I would

    Love to do it just for the experience. I really enjoy renovating and when my husband and I got along the the best when we were renovating our current house.

    I think we make great partners in this business

  • Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Jamie McCauley hi Jamie. Following your post about you 30k flip. Great job. How were you able to keep the costs so low? It seems not so much Reno was done.

  • Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2017 · 59 posts · 138 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Rafaella Almeida:

    @Jamie McCauley hi Jamie. Following your post about you 30k flip. Great job. How were you able to keep the costs so low? It seems not so much Reno was done.

    Hey Rafaella!  

    Thank you!  We kept costs low by doing a most of the work ourselves. The house didn't really need any high-priced items.  Most of it was labor!  Cost me a bit of my sanity, though! haha

  • Member since 2018 · 127 posts · 106 votes
    6y

    @Rafaella Almeida, one thing to remember about a HELOC loan is that most banks will only go to up to a certain LTV on your house, so you will still have equity in it. I just applied and received a HELOC at a 70% LTV. Before my HELOC, my LTV on my current property was 55% after my appraisal, so that gave me about 15% of equity in the house that I could use for the HELOC. The remaining 30% is still equity I own. I say this because from a risk standpoint, that is still quite a bit of equity for me in the house. Could the housing market drop like it did in 2008 and I loose that 30%, yes. But events like that aren't very common. I would assume that most banks won't allow you to go to 100% LTV, they will probably make sure you still have some equity left in the house.

  • Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Jamie McCauley what’s the name of your YouTube channel?

  • Jon WyliePro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Jeff Cichocki this is the best explanation I have seen. Thank you for the time you took to write this response.

  • Rental Property Investor · Southington, CT · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Jon Wylie at first I was scared of posting this question. But now I am so happy I did. So many helpful insights and also good advice not only for me but for many reading it.

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