Can I pull my own permits? (In Los Angeles) And, will a HML let me?

Question

I'm a little confused on permits. Hoping some of you who know Southern California might be able to shed some light on this.

I might have a deal in the works a little sooner than I expected to. The scope of work on this potential deal will be cosmetic and systems - such as interior & exterior paint, new plumbing, electrical, kitchen cabinets, some windows, refinishing wood floors and maaaaaybe a new roof. No additions or demo.

I will be most likely using a good chunk of my own cash and then some from an HML. The contractor I'd prefer to use (who completely remodeled my house and is very competent) is unfortunately NOT licensed. An experienced investor friend told me that as the owner of the property I will have every legal right to act as the GC.... since I own the property and I don't need a license. And that I can go into the city and pull and pay for any needed permits as the "owner builder". Then hire my own subs. Is this true?

I realize not having an licensed contractor is risky and plan on getting excellent insurance.

Secondly, my problem then centers around the HML. As there is a line on their application asking for the contractors license #.

So... Is my solution a matter of finding a different HML who won't ask for the contractors license and pull my own permits - or - knuckling down and trying to find a licensed contractor who I haven't worked with, which to me is a little scary.

Thanks!

Cagney Moreau · Answer

I work in los angeles all the time. Let me give you a piece of advice

DONT PULL PERMITS. (if its at all avoidable)

I am licensed to work in L.A. and have to pull permits sometimes.
But once you get the city involved its a total crap shoot. The city of l.a. is a mixture of corrupt politicians and niave public servants.

In my humble opinion.... Remodel the interior first. Then get the exterior done very quickly before they notice.

After a few years just claim that it was like that when you got here.

Or pull permits and may god have mercy on your soul. Serious its a nightmare at city hall.

Matt Devincenzo · Answer

Ok Dave Kay I'm going to part way answer this and I'm not sure how useful it will be, but hopefully gets you thinking about where to get all the answers. I know some of the answers for other areas not SoCal, again may not be as useful but hopefully gets you pointed in the right direction.

First on you pulling the permit, your friend is halfway right from my experience. A homeowner can legally pull any permit to do all the work on their own house normally. However I found out on one of my rehabs that some cities/counties in my area(FL) will not allow you to pull permits for a home you are not intending on living in even if title is in your name. The local permitting office would not issue me a permit for a rental if I did not intend on living there, so the simple answer to your question on that one is to call the local office and find out what they will allow.

As to the HML that would most likely be up to them. If it was me as the lender I would not allow it because my collateral is now at risk. Unless I had a past relationship with the borrower and and contractor and knew he could perform I wouldn't let it go that route.

Now on that permit issue and on the HML thing there is a solution to both with one step. I have a contractor that will pull permits for $500, he knows and referred me a handyman that does great work. So he is comfortable doing this because we have always performed, and he knows the person working under his license does quality work.

If my rehab is all cosmetic, then I just use the handyman like normal and save the $500, if not then I give my guy a call and he comes out and pulls everything I need and we are covered. So in your instance I would do that again, and both issues are solved.

Hope that gets your wheels turning in the direction of a solution, and welcome to BP.

April A. · Answer

Had similar experiences with a 203k purchase. Obtaining permits is a hassle. Call & ask questions 1st.

Dave Kay · Answer

Jon Holdman Matt Devincenzo Mike H. - Amazing info. Really helps clear things up.

Mike H. · Answer

Again, all areas are going to be different so you're definitely going to need to check with that village. But a couple of notes.

1) Just like it was mentioned in previous responses, while you can pull permits yourself, many areas only allow that if you are the owner occupant. The rules change if it is not your primary residence.

2) Even though you are the owner occupant, there are some things that many states won't allow you to do yourself regardless - i.e. certain electric and plumbing updates require licensed contractors.

That being said. I am in the same boat as well. I have a contractor I love to use for a lot of these. And, quite honestly, has done better work than some of the licensed guys I've used. But the villages have really tightened up on the permits and I'm not sure its worth all the headache of trying to get around it.

As for the HML, most of them really dont' care who you have do the work as long as you pull the permit. For the most part, the code enforcers are going to be their best bet that the work gets done right. What would worry them is if you weren't pulling the permits.

But the one thing I will say is how incredibly hypocritical it is and, I would actually say, stupid that villages/states allow homeowners to do a bunch of the work themselves and/or by unlicensed contractors. Yet they require investors to get licensed guys to do everything.

Apparently, they're saying its ok if the homeowner throws away their money on a fly by night roofer or plumber but not if an investor does it. To me, I think it should be the other way around. As long as I'm pulling the permit as an investor, I should be able to use anybody I want. The inspector will catch any issues if they do it wrong. And if I lose my money to a bad contractor, I'm an investor so its my own fault.

But for a homeowner to be able to "do it themself" (i.e. hire an unlicensed contractor to do the work), they're being put at risk of getting taken to the cleaners.

Ideally, one would think an investor would be in a much better position to hire a good contractor and, as a business, would be more likely to be able to absorb the loss.

Jon Holdman · Answer

Some of the work you're doing - electrical, plumbing, windows and roof - almost certainly needs permits.

It seems more and more common that the owner CANNOT pull permits unless they are living there. A permit I pulled a month ago for my residence had the additional restriction that you have to live there for at least a year after the work is completed. Some areas would also require that you have not only a GC but also licensed plumbers and electricians. The only way you can know for certain is to call the relevant building department and ask. Or, check online. Many have info on permits online.

"Quality work" doesn't mean its up to code. It especially doesn't mean it will pass muster with an inspector.

You'll have to ask the HML what their guidelines are. This just depends on the HML.

Can I pull my own permits? (In Los Angeles) And, will a HML let me?

Can I pull my own permits? (In Los Angeles) And, will a HML let me?

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