SFR Investor · Valencia, CA · Member since 2012 · 22 posts · 0 votes
Hey Guys,
I just picked up a new 1920's Craftsman and after noticing some slopes in two different corners of the house, I decided to take a closer look under the house. Interestingly, out of all of the inspectors we had come through the house, none really took the effort. Anyway on the one side I investigated I confirmed that the concrete footing is cracked in the middle, and it slopes out to the corner. It looks like someone actually poured concrete on to the crack, but I can't seem to figure out how that would have helped.
Here's the crack:
I'm assuming there is something similar occurring on the other side of the house.
I spoke to someone who can jack the house up and he gave two options - 1. Jack from under the concrete and 2. Jack the house free from the concrete. The second one is much cheaper but I'm not clear what implications I should be considering. Thoughts?
I have repaired many sloping houses over the years. Sometimes I have my guy jack up the house, replace a warped or rotted beam, insert a pier here and there, and get the house pretty level with no other problems. Costs me under $1,000. Other times, windows break, stucco or siding gets damaged, doors no longer close. It ends up costing double to fix the damage created by moving the house, and the house doesn't always end up level. I tend to put my money toward other repairs nowadays and simply supply the tenant with grappling gear to get out of sloping rooms.
Wow, that picture could be from my 1920s house. I'm sure that's my waste pipe.
I'd want to know more before jacking. How bad is the sloping to the corners, what degree? Is the settling finished and the foundation stable now? Do you see other repair work on the interior or exterior walls that is giving out because of ongoing settling?
I like the attempted repair. :) Makes me wonder how bad the original crack was and why they thought filling it would be helpful. Unless it was so big that water was coming in.
I have a lot of "sloping" houses on p&b foundations. Interestingly, I haven't had a single tenant ask about the sloping floors, and I get the same rent as my "level" houses. The reason I asked was my suggestion if you are going to keep as a rental is to do nothing about it. If you intend to sell, you may have to address the foundation.
@K. Marie Poe, I haven't measure it out yet, but it looks like it slopes down about 2 inches over about 20 feet. I have no history on the house so I don't know much. I do know that the door and window jams are all fine, no obvious repairs or cracks, but that could have all been patched over the years.
@Derek W, good points. We do want to do some rehab in the kitchen though and it would be nice to have a square room as a basis.
I have repaired many sloping houses over the years. Sometimes I have my guy jack up the house, replace a warped or rotted beam, insert a pier here and there, and get the house pretty level with no other problems. Costs me under $1,000. Other times, windows break, stucco or siding gets damaged, doors no longer close. It ends up costing double to fix the damage created by moving the house, and the house doesn't always end up level. I tend to put my money toward other repairs nowadays and simply supply the tenant with grappling gear to get out of sloping rooms.
2" over 20 feet sounds within reason to me. Really depends where it is in a room and how the floors/walls/windows/doors take it. If you aren't seeing any cracks or other issues from recent or continued settling I'd not touch the foundation. I'd have a foundation contractor assure me that it's stable, and that the repair isn't covering anything eggregious. As for the kitchen: if you are doing a total remodel, you should be able to get sufficiently level with a new subfloor. A good flooring contractor should have no problem making sure your subfloor is level and square before you add cabinets and flooring. If your cabinets go to the ceiling and you have long bank of them, the lack of square can be concealed with trim, etc.
If keeping as rental is something you are considering anyway, that would be the best option. While renting you could monitor any movement by placing markings and measuring crack widths, and by stringing line attached to house that represent the current slope and independent horizontal string line with markings where measurments are taken. Then after every season change, record any changes in measurements, noting date and point measurement taken. When nearing time to sell, this data can be taken to an engineer or experienced reputable foundation company for conclusions drawn and a plan to address it or not.
What I wouldnt do is ask the contractor who said he would jack the footings on a 93 year old home for any more of his opinions.
I also wouldnt install cabinets and tile in a sloped house unless I planned to rent it till Im so old Im fartin' dust! If cabinets need to go in Id either be willing to sell it as is, or Id level the house first and go on the idea that a house that old has done its thing or an extraordinarily wet year caused the movement and its still probably done its thing. 2" is not likely to break windows and adjusting doors is no biggy. Ive cut wall corners in some situation to allow ease of movement. When stuff holds on you can end up overjacking and then it lets loose causing more movement and potential damage than need be.
Anyway, there are perfectly logical and practical ways to approach all issues. But you must run the details past enough people that you know youve heard experience talking. Once you find it do what it takes to secure access to that person/people.
I believe you got better input from those above than from your foundation guy. I would NEVER disturb a near 100 yer old foundation unless replacing it.
What I wouldnt do is ask the contractor who said he would jack the footings on a 93 year old home for any more of his opinions.
I believe you got better input from those above than from your foundation guy. I would NEVER disturb a near 100 yer old foundation unless replacing it.
I'm giving the contractor the benefit of the doubt. And hoping that the OP only talked with him on the phone and that the contractor made his suggestions without an inspection. Unless that 2" slope comes all at once in a corner of the house, and/or unless that house is still moving, I'd not go near any jacking project on a 1920s SoCal house. I've seen a lot in my farms, having bought plenty of houses with NO concrete....wood footers right to the ground. You have to look at what is customary and acceptable for the area, what is sell-able and finance-able, and what has worked already for almost 100 years before you go wily-nily with the "leveling", the jacking, the mud-jacking, the replacement piers, etc .
What I wouldnt do is ask the contractor who said he would jack the footings on a 93 year old home for any more of his opinions.
I believe you got better input from those above than from your foundation guy. I would NEVER disturb a near 100 yer old foundation unless replacing it.
I'm giving the contractor the benefit of the doubt. And hoping that the OP only talked with him on the phone and that the contractor made his suggestions without an inspection. Unless that 2" slope comes all at once in a corner of the house, and/or unless that house is still moving, I'd not go near any jacking project on a 1920s SoCal house. I've seen a lot in my farms, having bought plenty of houses with NO concrete....wood footers right to the ground. You have to look at what is customary and acceptable for the area, what is sell-able and finance-able, and what has worked already for almost 100 years before you go wily-nily with the "leveling", the jacking, the mud-jacking, the replacement piers, etc .
Agreed. By "those above", I was speaking of YOU btw! :c)
My comments were based on the idea that for it to be noticeable enough that the OP was investigating a fix, and that they appear to be the type of investor wanting to do things right, a fix if possible and affordable was in order.
I follow your logic completely, as I have leveled MANY a floor to accomodate tile and base cabinets and forced myself to discard my level in favor of my eyeballs when hanging upper cabinet! Sometimes one just has to find the "sweet spot" and caller good! :c)
I know this is an old post but who do you use for your foundation work I have a sloping P&B house in Ventura county and I am having a hard time getting multiple bids no one really wants to come out.