Regret accepting offer with owner carry in 2nd position

Regret accepting offer with owner carry in 2nd position

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes

After listing my property (a 4-plex in San Diego) too high in a declining market, receiving no offers after a month even after a 9% price cut, I asked my broker: at what price could he guarantee an offer within a week or two.  He brought in a local investor (dual agency) and he gave me an offer that looked ok at first -- close enough on price, with no contingencies. This was very attractive to me because it's a very old property (1914), in good shape but with deferred maintenance, a past electrical fire, and some other issues that are relatively minor.

I had stated I could offer an owner carry. I clarified (to my broker) that I meant a wrap loan. The offer I got was not a wrap but an owner carry in 2nd position. To put some numbers on this for clarity, the property was listed for $1.75M in late August, lowered to $1.645M after 2 weeks, with no offers after 4 weeks, and the offer is at $1.45M. The 2nd position owner carry is $450k. In part, this was attractive to me because of tax efficiency and diversification (roughly half my equity would be split into DSTs and this mortgage paper). My existing loan is roughly $465k. I made the mistake of focusing on the terms of the carry -- rates and duration -- rather than thinking through the risk of being in 2nd position in a declining market. Buyer had offered a 5 year carry at 3%, after I balked he made a minor adjustment to annually adjusted rates peaking at 5%, and then I countered with a 3 year term at annually adjusted rates of 3%, 6%, 9%. The broker said it would be "important" for me to formally counter and put the revised terms in writing. Then I was informed the buyer was accepting... and noticed the purchase is assignable. I had some denial going on and I didn't stop things from proceeding. Now we've just opened escrow and I'm having seller's remorse. The buyer's EMD ($35k) is due by Monday and I don't know yet if it has been received by escrow.

Today I asked the broker to lower the price on the listing to $1.5M and accept backup offers in case the escrow fails.  There was robust interest and a lot of people attended the showings at the higher prices.  So I have some confidence that I could get another offer at the lower price...  but I don't really want to risk going through a tough escrow with a novice buyer trying to shave me down with contingencies and unreasonable demands related to inspections... especially in a softening buyer's market.  (But I also don't want to take a bath on my return.)  Assuming I am ultimately made whole, the inflation-adjusted sales price ends up being around $1.3M.  If I'm not made whole it's closer to $1M.

I have no info yet on the terms of the buyer's 1st. If his 1st LTV is 80% I could be underwater on day 1. If it's 60% that's obviously better. If the buyer plans to fix it up, that would help too but obviously can't be guaranteed. I'll proceed to interrogate my broker.

Other than that, what would you do?  I'm considering canceling the escrow.  What leverage do I have on the broker?  (He gets 4.5% instead of 2% with this deal.)

What terms might you offer to sweeten the pot for another buyer without putting me in such a compromised situation?  I do plan to do a 1031 exchange.

Thanks for listening.

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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Account Closed:

After listing my property (a 4-plex in San Diego) too high in a declining market, receiving no offers after a month even after a 9% price cut, I asked my broker: at what price could he guarantee an offer within a week or two.  He brought in a local investor (dual agency) and he gave me an offer that looked ok at first -- close enough on price, with no contingencies. This was very attractive to me because it's a very old property (1914), in good shape but with deferred maintenance, a past electrical fire, and some other issues that are relatively minor.

I had stated I could offer an owner carry. I clarified (to my broker) that I meant a wrap loan. The offer I got was not a wrap but an owner carry in 2nd position. To put some numbers on this for clarity, the property was listed for $1.75M in late August, lowered to $1.645M after 2 weeks, with no offers after 4 weeks, and the offer is at $1.45M. The 2nd position owner carry is $450k. In part, this was attractive to me because of tax efficiency and diversification (roughly half my equity would be split into DSTs and this mortgage paper). My existing loan is roughly $465k. I made the mistake of focusing on the terms of the carry -- rates and duration -- rather than thinking through the risk of being in 2nd position in a declining market. Buyer had offered a 5 year carry at 3%, after I balked he made a minor adjustment to annually adjusted rates peaking at 5%, and then I countered with a 3 year term at annually adjusted rates of 3%, 6%, 9%. The broker said it would be "important" for me to formally counter and put the revised terms in writing. Then I was informed the buyer was accepting... and noticed the purchase is assignable. I had some denial going on and I didn't stop things from proceeding. Now we've just opened escrow and I'm having seller's remorse. The buyer's EMD ($35k) is due by Monday and I don't know yet if it has been received by escrow.

Today I asked the broker to lower the price on the listing to $1.5M and accept backup offers in case the escrow fails.  There was robust interest and a lot of people attended the showings at the higher prices.  So I have some confidence that I could get another offer at the lower price...  but I don't really want to risk going through a tough escrow with a novice buyer trying to shave me down with contingencies and unreasonable demands related to inspections... especially in a softening buyer's market.  (But I also don't want to take a bath on my return.)  Assuming I am ultimately made whole, the inflation-adjusted sales price ends up being around $1.3M.  If I'm not made whole it's closer to $1M.

I have no info yet on the terms of the buyer's 1st. If his 1st LTV is 80% I could be underwater on day 1. If it's 60% that's obviously better. If the buyer plans to fix it up, that would help too but obviously can't be guaranteed. I'll proceed to interrogate my broker.

Other than that, what would you do?  I'm considering canceling the escrow.  What leverage do I have on the broker?  (He gets 4.5% instead of 2% with this deal.)

What terms might you offer to sweeten the pot for another buyer without putting me in such a compromised situation?  I do plan to do a 1031 exchange.

Thanks for listening.

You’ve analyzed and identified the key concerns.  In my mind the biggest problem is the size of the first lien.  In any case if the first is sufficiently large as a percentage of market value you risk holding a 
junk” second.

these deals rarely come off without the buyer needing some kind of modification from the seller, even if it’s just an extension of time.  Just say no!  I contracted to sell a property to a buyer and in the 3 months he had to close the market had moved higher- dramatically.  The days before closing his agent contacted me and told me I would “need”to sign a 60 day extension.  She couldn’t believe it when I said no.   I told her I had three back up offers at 15-18% higher.  She still couldn’t believe I said no.  Like I had some moral obligation to accommodate a buyer who couldn’t fulfill the contract.  LOL. 
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  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    By the way....what kind of rents were you getting on the 4 plex?   Were they all LTR?

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

    By the way....what kind of rents were you getting on the 4 plex?   Were they all LTR?


    They're all STR. All 4 are small-ish 1/1's with small closets, proximity to downtown and the freeways, great walkability... very well-suited for STR. They each gross $3k-$4k per month. But San Diego is now regulating STR's and trying to force only 1 unit per owner (or 2 per married couple), if you're lucky enough to get a license at all. The backup strategy for already-furnished rentals with significant investments in transient occupancy is MTR, 1-6 month term, usually with travel nurses. But I'm located in a fairly noisy urban area with original single pane windows, overall inferior sound insulation, and most travel nurses work night shifts. And in California anyone who rents for over 1 month can claim they're a long term tenant and refuse to vacate -- among other political and regulatory risks that are trending in the wrong direction. Plus my housekeeper has demanded higher wages twice in the last 12 months, and already charges 2x-3x for long term turnovers. Plus, as I said, the building is old and has deferred maintenance, so I'd be facing some large expenses in an environment of rising wages. The bigger players who have entire crews can manage this better than I can as a one-off customer of the contractors. If my housekeeper was an hourly employee, for instance, she would make a fraction of what she does now. All the best handymen, electricians, and plumbers get hired onto larger projects so resources are constantly being sucked away. I'm usually left maintaining the property myself -- which was totally fine with me at first, but has become a nuisance now. I got really good at maximizing occupancy, so there was often no window of opportunity to fix things. I became a victim of my own success -- with maintenance items dictating my schedule. Then I got a notice from the city forcing me to repaint the entire house during high season. Had to cancel several bookings and find the one painting contractor in the entire county who could thread the needle for me. That was really the straw that broke the camel's back. And that's not even mentioning how disruptive and disrespectful some STR guests have become, nor the constantly evolving and restrictive rules imposed by the STR platform, nor the fact that we're at a market maximum in terms of valuation, nor the fact that I don't plan to stay in California much longer.

    With all that said, if I was a whale planning to stay in California I'd spend the money to fix it up, combine the 2 top floor units to make it a 2/2 master suite, reinforce the roof structure and add easier access from inside because the flat roof has a 180 degree panoramic view of downtown from the Coronado Bridge to Balboa Park.  It would be a baller house hack with 2 units downstairs to pay most of the mortgage.  Just doesn't fit with my plans right now, nor my outlook on the market, nor my ability to execute a 1031 exchange.

    Hope that addresses the broader context of your question.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt Devincenzo:

    In theory if he has that sort of funding resource it's possible that the underwriting isn't focused on the metrics a lender might otherwise rely on. But you still have the actual security instrument and conditions etc that need to be negotiated. So in getting your draft promissory note prepared, make sure it alleviates your risk as much as possible.


    Good to know. I am planning to negotiate a max 90% CLTV, but not sure I'll be successful. The broker told me he "can probably convince" the buyer to sign a personal guaranty "if he [buys it with his LLC as assignee]". Other than that and attachment of rents, do you have any resources or recommendations?

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Tyson Gustus

    As a lender you still need to qualify the borrower.

    Remember this is 2 transactions one on the purchase and one on financing. You could review the package and just note that he does not qualify whether it’s because of their income or maybe with you in second you require still no more than 80% ltv.

    Thanks so much for this guidance, Chris.  This is the key I was missing.

    Follow up question...  Am I obligated to disclose my lending standards, so to speak, to the buyer within a specific (legally mandated) timeframe?
     
    The timeline provided by the transaction coordinator shows buyer qualification package is due in 17 days, in this case Oct 17.  I'm currently waiting for the appraisal to land before pressing the issue.
  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Wayne Brooks:

    @Account Closed  Yeah, a couple of important things you didn’t consider…

    1) the amount of the 1st mtg, and his resulting down payment, is crucial

    2) the deal needed to be contingent on you approving the credit/resources of the buyer…without this you have no control on who your ultimate borrower is.

    Having said that, your best scenario is if they don’t place the EM in escrow by the deadline.  If they are 1 minute late, Immediately send a notice of cancellation, assuming your contract allows this immediate cancellation, or a notice to cure within a certain amount of time, whatever your contract allows.


     Thanks for this feedback, Wayne.  Chris seems to think I still have the opportunity to qualify the buyer, and there does seem to be some evidence of this in the docs. (Buyer qualification docs are due Oct 17)  And when I ask about it, I'm ignored.

    While I agree it would have been better to explicitly structure the deal to be contingent upon the terms of the first, it sounds like there's still some room to maneuver and negotiate on this. The broker has already volunteered to "probably" convince the buyer to sign a personal guaranty. The buyer is a big fish, so I think this alone could salvage the deal. Ideally I'd demand max 90% CLTV too... but I'm wondering what feedback you might have. The escrow opening docs are currently in my inbox. They show an as yet undetermined amount for the 1st.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    @Account Closed Yeah, with “buyer qualification” docs being due, there is an implied approval/qualification factor. 
    As I read it, your “big fish” is not the one you’re going to end up married to. And guys wanting to over leverage properties aren’t looking to volunteer personal guarantees. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Wayne Brooks:

    @Account Closed Yeah, with “buyer qualification” docs being due, there is an implied approval/qualification factor. 
    As I read it, your “big fish” is not the one you’re going to end up married to. And guys wanting to over leverage properties aren’t looking to volunteer personal guarantees. 


     I have a countersigned commitment for a personal guaranty from the buyer...  (written on a CAR form addendum with the extension of COE and assignment to the buyer's living trust).

    It seems the "buyer qualification" part of the escrow timeline was a mistake...  but my broker is sending me buyer's qualification docs in any case.  I have requested a schedule of assets.

    How do I know a personal guaranty with teeth when I see one?  Is there a good resource for such things or do I just need a good real estate attorney?  Escrow has apparently agreed to draft the note but their contract explicitly disclaims any responsibility for same.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    @Account Closed Well, an assignment to their living trust sounds more legitimate/sage than a wholesaler assigning to some random buyer. A personal guarantee should be fairly straight forward, but I’d use an attorney to draft all the documents since if this eventually goes sideways, you’ve got major dollars and headaches involved.  The amount of the first mtg is still the major issue.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Wayne Brooks:

    @Account Closed Well, an assignment to their living trust sounds more legitimate/sage than a wholesaler assigning to some random buyer. A personal guarantee should be fairly straight forward, but I’d use an attorney to draft all the documents since if this eventually goes sideways, you’ve got major dollars and headaches involved.  The amount of the first mtg is still the major issue.


     Thanks for the feedback.  Assuming the personal guaranty is valid, strong and enforceable, I'm guessing the amount of the first mtg is still the major issue because even a big fish can go bk in a downturn.  Is that the crux of it?

    If I'm at 30% LTV in 2nd position, what would be safer in your opinion... having 80% CLTV and no personal guaranty or 100% CLTV, a personal guaranty, and a list of assets with $10M equity

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    3y

    UPDATE!

    The buyer is attempting to secure 101% (CLTV) financing on the purchase. Attempts to qualify the buyer and reduce the total size of the financing failed, so I've focused on the personal guarantee. (The buyer assigned the purchase to his living trust and also agreed to sign a personal guarantee. I think the broker was able to convince the buyer to sign the guarantee because they both knew it would be unenforceable. Incidentally, I've found public records showing this broker and buyer were TIC on a property last year. Seems the broker's MO is to buy the listing, botch the marketing, then feed deals to this buyer.)

    In any case, I was able to intervene with the living trust assignment and declare that the assignee borrower could not be a disregarded entity, essentially because a person can't guarantee their own debts -- and a disregarded entity is "still them". However, the buyer has been playing games with the assignment ever since. The buyer's 2nd attempt at making the assignee borrower look like it wasn't a disregarded entity was to change the assignment to his sole prop LLC. I pointed out that it was still a disregarded entity. So the buyer's 3rd attempt at making the assignee borrower (LLC) look like it wasn't a disregarded entity was to amend the Articles to essentially say "we won't treat it as a disregarded entity anymore". He also added his wife to the LLC because the Articles had a typo that stipulated the LLC had to have "at least more than one member". Attached was a W-9 saying the LLC was classified as an S-corp. Then I pointed out that the Articles provide no security and the W-9 didn't change the classification election of the LLC. And since the LLC had no past tax returns, they had to fill out an 8832 to make the new election with the IRS. So the buyer's 4th attempt at making the assignee borrower (LLC) look like it wasn't a disregarded entity was to fill out an 8832 electing to be classified as a partnership... (not an S-corp). And since the LLC is owned by a married couple in a community property state, it can still be treated as a disregarded entity.

    So I pointed this all out, said the buyer had provided inconsistent documentation and made false statements to me as lender... and said I couldn't sign off on the seller carryback under these circumstances.  (We're scheduled to close tomorrow.)  Broker and escrow then asked for permission to show the buyer my email, which I thought was strange... but before I could get any feedback from my attorney, the broker sent a "notice to perform" from the buyer.  The buyer claims he has done everything I've asked.

    I'm ready to be done with this headache and let them cancel. The only question remaining is whether I'm at risk of anything more than the buyer canceling.

    Can they actually force me to do a seller carryback under the circumstances?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Tyson G.

    No buyer can force anyone to give them money for a loan if terms have changed. Assuming you never agreed to finance 101% all you need to say is we will only carry up to 70 or 75%.

    If you haven’t gotten a lawyer involved yet then this is shame on you - as a lawyer could also easily answer these questions.

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  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Tyson G.

    No buyer can force anyone to give them money for a loan if terms have changed. Assuming you never agreed to finance 101% all you need to say is we will only carry up to 70 or 75%.

    If you haven’t gotten a lawyer involved yet then this is shame on you - as a lawyer could also easily answer these questions.

    Thanks Chris. I've spoken to 3 attorneys. The first had conflicts. The next had limited time and just went out of town. The 3rd has limited time and just got back in town. The borrower appeared like they might be trying to perform up until the day after Thanksgiving when the 8832 arrived.

    To be clear, I will not sign off on the seller carryback. Our agreement stipulated only that I would do a seller carryback of 31% LTV in 2nd place. The amount of the 1st was not stipulated in our agreement. The buyer argues that he gets to do a 1st of any amount. His offer stipulated he would seek financing for the 1st... I'm not sure if they snuck in the amount of $1M as a line item on the offer. The personal guarantee was added after we entered escrow. If they did manage to sneak in the amount of the 1st, can I disqualify the borrower on the basis of the inconsistent documentation provided? He did send a fake W-9.


  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 16 votes
    3y

    Here is my draft reply...

    The assignee borrower does not qualify for the seller carryback they are seeking with 101% CLTV. Assignee borrower is a disregarded entity whose debts cannot be adequately secured by the personal guarantee as agreed. Borrower has provided inconsistent, ineffective and inaccurate documentation in his efforts to frame the assignee borrower as something other than a disregarded entity. Under these circumstances, the assignee borrower qualifies for no more than 33% CLTV.

    You can relay this to the borrower.

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