Note Buying Auction Sites: DebExpert vs. Paperstac

Tax Liens & Mortgage Notes
3yFollow

Note Buying Auction Sites: DebExpert vs. Paperstac

Kelly Beck
Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes

Has anyone had good/bad experience with selling notes on either of these platforms? We're looking to sell our first note (unseasoned, 2nd lien). Before we sign anything I'd like to get some feedback. Are there any other platforms we could be looking at?

Thanks!

2Reply
211 views

Most Popular Reply

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Kelly Beck:

Has anyone had good/bad experience with selling notes on either of these platforms? We're looking to sell our first note (unseasoned, 2nd lien). Before we sign anything I'd like to get some feedback. Are there any other platforms we could be looking at?

Thanks!


 We have sold on paperstac, lots of brokers on there that never close. I ask everyone who is a broker for 3 references to who they sold to. That weeds out 95% of them.

Debexpert fees are too high to make the numbers work most of the time. 

7e investments53 Reviews
WebsiteView Page
3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

32 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Peter Halliday
    Rental Property Investor · Arlington Heights, IL · Member since 2017 · 243 posts · 108 votes
    3y

    @Kelly Beck I can answer about Paperstac.  I’ve bought a number of notes from here. Never seconds.  The only thing to be aware of is that some sellers are negotiating with several buyers and once.  Just because you come to terms on price you do have to also do due diligence before you sign the contract and become exclusive.  I like doing due diligence first in case zi find something that changes the value.   

    Kim following for the answer on Debexpert.  Haven’t bought anything.  Their salesmen calls you hounding you to buy so far they don’t have a great way to filter out opportunities at t seems.  So there’s a lot of noise. I’m curious if anything ne has used them.  

    1Reply
  • Kelly Beck
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes
    3y

    Thanks, Peter. We had a call with DebExperts today but it was just introductory. 

    0Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Kelly Beck:

    Has anyone had good/bad experience with selling notes on either of these platforms? We're looking to sell our first note (unseasoned, 2nd lien). Before we sign anything I'd like to get some feedback. Are there any other platforms we could be looking at?

    Thanks!


     We have sold on paperstac, lots of brokers on there that never close. I ask everyone who is a broker for 3 references to who they sold to. That weeds out 95% of them.

    Debexpert fees are too high to make the numbers work most of the time. 

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    3Reply
  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Kelly Beck:

    Has anyone had good/bad experience with selling notes on either of these platforms? We're looking to sell our first note (unseasoned, 2nd lien). Before we sign anything I'd like to get some feedback. Are there any other platforms we could be looking at?

    Thanks!


     We have sold on paperstac, lots of brokers on there that never close. I ask everyone who is a broker for 3 references to who they sold to. That weeds out 95% of them.

    Debexpert fees are too high to make the numbers work most of the time. 

    Chris, when you say 95% of brokers are eliminated for not being able to provide successful transaction references, are you referring to actual mortgage brokers, or are you referring to the people that attend a “cash flow” seminar and believe  the easy money hype?
    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Kelly Beck
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Kelly Beck:

    Has anyone had good/bad experience with selling notes on either of these platforms? We're looking to sell our first note (unseasoned, 2nd lien). Before we sign anything I'd like to get some feedback. Are there any other platforms we could be looking at?

    Thanks!


     We have sold on paperstac, lots of brokers on there that never close. I ask everyone who is a broker for 3 references to who they sold to. That weeds out 95% of them.

    Debexpert fees are too high to make the numbers work most of the time. 

    Thanks. So, you're saying that a lot of notes don't get purchased through Paperstac?

    We want to sell our note, so do you mean here "who they bought from"?

    Also, DebExperts told us that it's the note buyers who pay the fees, so if we're selling we wouldn't have any. Are you saying that there aren't many note buyers on DebExpert due to the fees being too high? 

    Thanks for the clarification.


    0Reply
  • Peter Halliday
    Rental Property Investor · Arlington Heights, IL · Member since 2017 · 243 posts · 108 votes
    3y

    @Kelly Beck If you are trying to sell a note, another option is a Note Broker or someone that acts as that like a servicing company's sales desk. I can make some suggestions. If it's a low dollar UPB, then you are better going on Paperstac than a broker.

    0Reply
  • Kelly Beck
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes
    3y

    Thanks, Peter. What does "UPB" stand for? Also, this is a 2nd position note we're trying to sell, so we'd be open to any suggestions for that type since it's our first one. Thanks again.

    0Reply
  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    Neither of those sites have passed my diligence sniff test. It's increasingly hard to find genuine note offerings. 

    1Reply
    • Brett Burky
      Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 110 posts · 90 votes
      1y
      Quote from @V.G Jason:

      Neither of those sites have passed my diligence sniff test. It's increasingly hard to find genuine note offerings. 


       You should set up a saved search. Genuine note offerings are there daily.

      0Reply
  • Kelly Beck
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes
    3y

    Thanks so much. I just don't want to get locked into something and then not be able to sell elsewhere.

    0Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Don Konipol

    “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
    • Brett Burky
      Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 110 posts · 90 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:

      @Don Konipol

      “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space


       We do our best to eliminate time wasters. However you're right there is some guru out there teaching that you can broker and we hate it. 

      It's a game of whacka-mole but granted we're pretty good at it. 

      The main thing that deters brokers is the identity verification. 

      0Reply
    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Brett Burky:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:

      @Don Konipol

      “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space


       We do our best to eliminate time wasters. However you're right there is some guru out there teaching that you can broker and we hate it. 

      It's a game of whacka-mole but granted we're pretty good at it. 

      The main thing that deters brokers is the identity verification. 


       I renamed it to whacka-con-artist.

      7e investments53 Reviews
      WebsiteView Page
      2Reply
    • Don KonipolBusiness Member
      Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Brett Burky:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:

      @Don Konipol

      “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space


       We do our best to eliminate time wasters. However you're right there is some guru out there teaching that you can broker and we hate it. 

      It's a game of whacka-mole but granted we're pretty good at it. 

      The main thing that deters brokers is the identity verification. 


       I renamed it to whacka-con-artist.

      It’s still a LOT better than it was when I started on BP in 2009 and every other post started…….I have a MANDATE in which I’m third from the broker of record for a loan pool worth $500 Trillion and I want 2 points for myself in compensation for posting this …..
      Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
      WebsiteView Page
      1Reply
    • Brett Burky
      Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 110 posts · 90 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Brett Burky:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:

      @Don Konipol

      “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space

      I've just sat through a demo of Paperstac Next and those people that aren't doing the best business like that will have a very difficult time. Identity verification will be one major deterrent. 

       We do our best to eliminate time wasters. However you're right there is some guru out there teaching that you can broker and we hate it. 

      It's a game of whacka-mole but granted we're pretty good at it. 

      The main thing that deters brokers is the identity verification. 


       I renamed it to whacka-con-artist.


      0Reply
    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Don Konipol:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Brett Burky:
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:

      @Don Konipol

      “Note brokers” who took the $99 cash flow course and are experts in the space


       We do our best to eliminate time wasters. However you're right there is some guru out there teaching that you can broker and we hate it. 

      It's a game of whacka-mole but granted we're pretty good at it. 

      The main thing that deters brokers is the identity verification. 


       I renamed it to whacka-con-artist.

      It’s still a LOT better than it was when I started on BP in 2009 and every other post started…….I have a MANDATE in which I’m third from the broker of record for a loan pool worth $500 Trillion and I want 2 points for myself in compensation for posting this …..

       i went through this in 09  and promptly burnt out with all the joker brokers and slang they slung around.. never could figure out why all those folks waste time on deals that will never ever close.  But I did have a bizz associate who tried to trade Jet Fuel and was going to get rich .. I would tell him Dude AA is the largest buyer of jet fuel they are not going to let some yahoo sitting in his basement office in Portland OR get in the middle a trade and make 500k  LOL  he then went off to Africa looking for Gold :)

      Podcast Guest on Show #222
      JLH Capital Partners51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      2Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y

    @Kelly Beck

    You are correct the buyers pay but what do they do if they are paying the fee - they lower their price to account for that fee. If I want 10% return and the note is a 10% note and I have to pay a commission, borrower pays off tomorrow I lose $.

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Kelly Beck
    OP
    Member since 2022 · 33 posts · 13 votes
    3y

    Gotcha, thanks for the explanation.

    1Reply
  • Wesley I.
    Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2019 · 286 posts · 135 votes
    3y

    @Kelly Beck

    My only experience is with paperstac. Have sold a note on this platform, went seamlessly, easy to understand step by step process.

    1Reply
  • Mark F.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 672 posts · 677 votes
    3y

    I've purchased one note (CFD) on paperstac. I was very happy with the process and the site as it held my hand through the transaction, along with the seller as it was my first note transaction (thanks again JB). I wouldn't hesitate to buy another again in the future on the Paperstac platform. I'm curious as to why VG Jason wasn't a fan. I also enjoy their podcast and the free resources they put out.

    No experience with the other.

    1Reply
  • Charley Gates
    Investor · Meadville, PA · Member since 2021 · 75 posts · 45 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Kelly Beck:

    Thanks, Peter. What does "UPB" stand for? Also, this is a 2nd position note we're trying to sell, so we'd be open to any suggestions for that type since it's our first one. Thanks again.


    Hi Kelly. "UPB" stands for 'unpaid principal balance' which refers to the outstanding principal still due on the loan.

    UPB is different than the payoff amount. The payoff amount includes other fees and charges that may have accumulated over time. If there have been no late fees or other charges, then UPB will equal the payoff amount. When they are not equal, payoff amount is always bigger. It's important to note that some of these accumulated fees and charges that make up the payoff amount may not be collectible.

    1Reply
  • Gabe K.
    Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 33 votes
    3y

    We've had a lot of success buying and selling on Paperstac. We've never had a broker close on there and they ask stupid questions.

    2Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Gabe K.:

    We've had a lot of success buying and selling on Paperstac. We've never had a broker close on there and they ask stupid questions.


    If I see a broker label next to someone I typically just archive the conversation. Had someone recently bid $2000 on a $25k performing loan. Then asked me to send them a complete due diligence package.... I politely declined and said when they add a zero to the offer I will consider it.

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    2Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:
    Quote from @Gabe K.:

    We've had a lot of success buying and selling on Paperstac. We've never had a broker close on there and they ask stupid questions.


    If I see a broker label next to someone I typically just archive the conversation. Had someone recently bid $2000 on a $25k performing loan. Then asked me to send them a complete due diligence package.... I politely declined and said when they add a zero to the offer I will consider it.


     I just spoke with paperstac guys today and they also are doing closings now for investor transactions - so if you want to close on a note that you do not know the seller they will handle the escrow transaction portion. Just a FYI

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Kevin Crowell
    Real Estate Professional · Mansfield, MA · Member since 2012 · 74 posts · 28 votes
    3y

    Hi Kelly - 

    Debexpert was fairly simple. Paperstac, while simple to use has conflicting info. All and all, make sure to do your own due diligence when using Paperstac as well as others because the info can be old and not up to date. Personally, I liked Debexpert more, but everyone has their own opinion and Paperstac is good to buy an asset if you know what you want and if you need to sell a note quickly. Good luck. 

    1Reply
  • Ryan Fox
    Investor · NV and CA · Member since 2016 · 374 posts · 227 votes
    2y

    What are note buyers on Paperstac or Debexpert generally looking for when they ask you for a complete due diligence package? 

    0Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Ryan Fox:

    What are note buyers on Paperstac or Debexpert generally looking for when they ask you for a complete due diligence package? 


     1. Note

    2. Security Instrument

    3. Pay History

    4. Assignments and Allonges

    5. Servicing Comments

    6. Proof of insurance

    7. Origination package (if available)

    8. Last Appraisal / BPO

    7e investments53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
    • Alex Booth
      Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 15 votes
      1y
      Quote from @Chris Seveney:
      Quote from @Ryan Fox:

      What are note buyers on Paperstac or Debexpert generally looking for when they ask you for a complete due diligence package? 


       1. Note

      2. Security Instrument

      3. Pay History

      4. Assignments and Allonges

      5. Servicing Comments

      6. Proof of insurance

      7. Origination package (if available)

      8. Last Appraisal / BPO


       I noticed that a title O&E report is not listed here. How do you ensure that title is clean before a note purchase (on or outside of paperstac).

      0Reply
  • Ryan Fox
    Investor · NV and CA · Member since 2016 · 374 posts · 227 votes
    1y

    @Chris Seveney- As far as the due diligence package, what do you expect to see in the servicing notes?  I have a note to sell that I'm servicing myself.  Do I explain every conversation I've had with the borrower or is there something specific you look for?  TIA!

    0Reply
    • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
      Moderator
      Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
      1y
      Quote from @Ryan Fox:

      @Chris Seveney- As far as the due diligence package, what do you expect to see in the servicing notes?  I have a note to sell that I'm servicing myself.  Do I explain every conversation I've had with the borrower or is there something specific you look for?  TIA!


       What state is it in? 

      To answer your question yes - there should be a detailed pay history for the loan accounting for every dollar as well as detailed call logs

      the issue with self servicing is the $20/mo to pay for servicing is worth it as your note will be heavily discounted due to self servicing as who knows if the data is real. 

      7e investments53 Reviews
      WebsiteView Page
      2Reply
  • Ryan Fox
    Investor · NV and CA · Member since 2016 · 374 posts · 227 votes
    1y

    @Chris Seveney- The property is in Missouri

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free