Where Can I Get An Investment Earning 7% Per Year? NOWHERE?

Where Can I Get An Investment Earning 7% Per Year? NOWHERE?

Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes

I'm 65 and looking to retire this year. Where can I find safe investments that will give me an annual return of 5% to 7% in retirement? --Gary, Pennsylvania The short answer is nowhere, assuming that by safe you mean an investment that will provide the return you seek without subjecting your principal to the possibility of loss. Indeed, it's safe to say you won't find any investment today that comes anywhere close to returning 5% to 7% a year that you could realistically describe as safe. To confirm that's the case, just look at the type of investments that provide the greatest protection of principal -- FDIC-insured money-market accounts, savings accounts and short-term CDs.

.......this is part of an article appearing on Yahoo.com that appears on money.cnn.com. In my opinion, they overlooked investing in notes. Properly structured with adequate collateral, that 7% per anum is EASILY achievable. For new investors wondering where to invest, and for those hesitant to purchase a property and deal with tenants, flipping problems, etc then making mortgages or buying 1st position notes is an alternative that should be considered.

In 2012, I started doing mortgages. I didn't know a lot, but knew two things: I only wanted 1st lien position, and I wanted a low LTV to protect myself against having to foreclose on the property. My first one was truly ALL WRONG in the respect that the dollar amount was ridiculously low. It ended up paying off well for one reason: the owner, when they decided to sell, called me first asking if I wanted to purchase the property. I still own that property today, it is worth about double what I paid for it, and I have had the same tenant there since 2012. Not all of my loans have been great, and I have learned quite a bit along the way. A handfull of times I have had to hire attorneys for collection, but in general this has been a great way to make money! Some call it the "toilet free" way to invest in real estate. If you haven't considered doing private or hard money loans, this is an avenue you may wish to explore. 7% per anum? You can do MUCH better than that, never have to worry about a tenant calling up saying the toilet won't flush, and usually never have to worry about maintenance, property taxes, or evictions. Yes, I also do buy and hold real estate, but each avenue offers advantages and disadvantages. You do need to know something about Dodd-Frank, and you need to make sure and comply with your state laws. Wishing everyone success in the avenue they pursue!

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Rental Property Investor · Lindon, UT · Member since 2015 · 862 posts · 438 votes
10y

I am accumulating rentals, creating loans and selling mortgage notes.  Over $12k in monthly income comes from investments and I greatly enjoy BP as a source of finding others like me.  If you are a passive investor, performing notes are for you, just as @John Thedford mentions.  You have to trust the person underwriting the private money loans that will give you the 12% annual return you are looking for.  If you are a more active investor like @Sean Kuhn, you'll get a better return (around 15%) on a performing rental, but you also have the possibility of issues and costs reducing that return, but also appreciation, that could eventually double your return.  

I enjoy speaking with like minded individuals that have money to invest in cash-flowing rentals and performing mortgage notes.  If you are like John or Sean, mentioned above, please connect with me.  I bet I can assist you in your RE investing.

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  • Minooka, IL · Member since 2013 · 353 posts · 85 votes
    10y
    This is exactly what I want to get into after I'm done accumulating rentals.
  • Rental Property Investor · Lindon, UT · Member since 2015 · 862 posts · 438 votes
    10y

    I am accumulating rentals, creating loans and selling mortgage notes.  Over $12k in monthly income comes from investments and I greatly enjoy BP as a source of finding others like me.  If you are a passive investor, performing notes are for you, just as @John Thedford mentions.  You have to trust the person underwriting the private money loans that will give you the 12% annual return you are looking for.  If you are a more active investor like @Sean Kuhn, you'll get a better return (around 15%) on a performing rental, but you also have the possibility of issues and costs reducing that return, but also appreciation, that could eventually double your return.  

    I enjoy speaking with like minded individuals that have money to invest in cash-flowing rentals and performing mortgage notes.  If you are like John or Sean, mentioned above, please connect with me.  I bet I can assist you in your RE investing.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    10y

    I'm also accumulating rentals.

    Most of mine come from tax lien sales. SC pays up to 12% backed by real estate. The state guarantees that you will receive your interest OR you will own the property. In SC a check with your investment plus interest shows up in the mailbox or a deed to the property shows up in the mailbox. This is one of the lowest risk Realestate investments you can make guaranteed by state law.

    Only want the Interest you say? Then just buy liens against nice properties. If you did hit the lottery you would have no problem unloading it for a healthy profit.

    Want inexpensive rental properties research the 30k to 100 FMV properties to have a better chance.

    I have 16 houses that are all rented and all were bought for pennies on the dollar via tax auction.

    I plan to retire in a couple years but don't know if I could stop buying houses at tax sale. It is too much fun and too lucrative.

  • Don KonipolBusiness Member
    Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    All of the above, while true as it goes, does not consider two important variables. First, a true historical data comparison must include all types of market conditions. Those of us who were invested in loans in 2008 - 2009 will have a totally different historical track record than those that started in 2012.  Second, Investing in properties or notes takes time and expertise in evaluating, negotiating, vetting, servicing, managing the investments, while putting money in a bank account takes almost no time or expertise.  For a true comparison, an appropriate fair market value for your labor in this regard must be subtracted from the income or interest earned.

    As an example, let's say the riskless 10 year treasury bond yields 3%.  I determine that investing in private mortgages carry a 3% risk premium.  I am able to obtain a yield of 12% investing in private mortgages.  I purchase $100,000 in mortgage notes, which through off $12,000 in annual income.  The average note I hold for 5 years, so I receive $60,000 in income over those 5 years.  It takes me 75 hours of time total evaluating, negotiating, etc. To purchase the notes, and an additional 50 hours per year servicing the notes.  So I have put in 325 hours of work over 5 years.  I estimate my expertise to be worth $100,000 per year full time, or $50 per hour.  325 hours at $50 per is $16,250.  $60,000 minus $16,250 is $43,750.  Divided by 5 is $8,750.  So allowing for a value for my time, my yield is 8.75 per annum.  3% risk premium over the riskless treasury bond is $3000, which when subtracted from $8750 is $5750.  So I am earning $2750 more annually on my $100,000 from private mortgages than I would be from treasury bonds on a risk adjusted basis 

    Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
  • Rental Property Investor · Lindon, UT · Member since 2015 · 862 posts · 438 votes
    10y

    That is an interesting way to look at your return and opportunity cost @Don Konipol.  I would say that dealing in performing notes, at least my clients would attest, takes no more than a couple hours a year to make 12% annually.  Having a great servicing company that provides the monthly, quarterly and annual statements with 1099s also makes a HUGE difference for the client.  I guess if you are working with tax liens or non-performing notes, your time outlay could be tremendous whereas my experience with performing mortgage notes has been much much better.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    Personally, I don't invest nearly as much time as @Don Konipol suggests. I don't buy notes, I originate the mortgage and note. Generally, the majority are in the 65% LTV or lower. Yes, I have had to hire an attorney a few times to collect, but generally speaking most of them have been very minimal risk and minimal time. I don't typically resell the notes but hold them in my retirement account tax deferred. As to actual time invested in them, it is relatively small. I collect the payments and book them. These actually pay quite well in most instances. I have a two pronged approach to investing: buy and hold rentals, and mortgages. The buy and hold RE generally is more time consuming when I factor in turning over a property, writing leases, etc. IMO they both have a valuable place in an investment portfolio.

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2014 · 37 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    Preach brother! Haha. I have been loving performing notes (including some from Darren Eady above) for the last few years averaging 10-15% a year.  It's an odd feeling to you watch your investment account balance go up in a relatively straight line.  

    The more you invest the more you learn, the more you discover, and the more connections you make. It makes me literally angry that more people do not understand the power of real estate and other "alternative investments" (hate that term) I can make more than 7% in my lending club account with auto pilot on and I now consider this a moderate return. People can get in on crowd funded notes for as little as $5k with a 9-10% return, and whole notes from 12-15%. And access and transparency is only going to continue to grow. It's amazing what we'all be able to do from our tablets in 2-5 years  Is am so thankful for BP and the ability  to learn and grow and set my family up for a future we never could have imagined even 5 years ago. 

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter what the return on an investment is if you don't have the funds to invest. I have friends who make >200k a year and less than 10k in savings/investments.  They sure do go on nice vacations though. I see the pictures on Facebook while I'm at the computer putting my note payments into my speadhseets. Hope they never get hurt, sick, or laid off. I have never made more than 100k a year and plan on retiring before I hit 50. 

    Keep it up BPers, keep your heads down, keep investing, keep preaching the gospel, keep making those returns, and ignore all the people telling you can't. 

  • Lender · Morgan Hill, CA · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    I agree with everything here! I'm also in private lending. And rental real estate. And alternative investments. And financial education.

    I spend time learning how to get better at what we are doing now and what we need to be doing next. The most fascinating thing of late is all the aspects of our lives that we take for granted and just do. Those things have ways of paying your back in a massive way. I just got back from my favorite event and have some new ideas to put into play. 

    That being said. @Don Konipol has the right idea. If you are trakcing it, you can change it. I love the analysis on knowing how much your time is worth and hwo to best leverage your investement of time and resources! The question then becomes, how many $100k deals can you do in a year to set you up for success in the coming years? A strong financial education is key to making well informed decisions and then taking appropriate action.

    Good job to those here who have made the choice and taken the action to do it! Keep on learning and sharing!

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