What's your better return- Invest in tax liens or pay down PMI?

What's your better return- Invest in tax liens or pay down PMI?

Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 52 votes

Hello everyone smarter than I.  

Here's the situation; I've one rental SFR at the moment that cash flows fairly well. I'm saving 30% of my income from one job and all my income from a second to have more money to invest, whether it's in another property, tax liens, etc. The rental is our old primary with FHA MIP still on it, though we're about $3,346.07 away from paying down to 78% of the original purchase price when my loan servicing company will have to legally remove $123/mo MIP payment. I've have many discussions about trying to remove at 80%, or 78% of the initial appraised value and they're not having it, though I don't want to refinance as it's at 3.5% over 30 yrs. This MIP is $1,476.00 over the next year (when it falls off naturally in 8/2019) that is only benefiting my note holder. If i'm going to be in a 22% tax bracket, that payment that doesn't benefit me will cost $1,800.72 of pretax income over the next year I'll have to earn, pay that 22% on, then pay MIP with the remaining $1,476.00.

So if I look at the money I'll have to earn, over the amount I'll have to pay ($1,800.72/$3,346.07) I'm basically getting a 53% return by using that saved money to kill the MIP, correct? If I've been saving to re-invest and after paying down the principal still have enough to cover maintenance, vacancy, etc. over the next year, this strategy should allow me keep more money than using that chunk to buy tax-liens at 12% locally, then of course need to pay taxes on my gains. ($3,346.07x.12=401.52, 401.52x.78=313.19)

To dig a little deeper.. here is another question for you. My EA who's been doing a great job on my taxes for years told me MIP is not going to be tax deductible for 2018. Is principle pay-down going to be tax deductible? For example I've already made additional payments of about $2,500 again for $1,400 and now maybe for $3,346. I don't believe so, only the mortgage interest, depreciation, improvements & property taxes will be tax deductible (note generated in 2012), correct? Basically I'm using most of the profit/ cash flow from the property this year to pay down the note & kill MIP.

Any insight to my mis-steps in logic or experience you've had in a similar situation would be greatly appreciated.  We've just had our first son & I want to be sure I'm doing everything I can to bolster our financial situation & ramp up to be sure he's always taken care of.  

Thank you all for any feed back!

-Steve C.

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Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y

Are you sure your MIP drops off at 78%? Some FHA loans have MIP that never drops off the life of the loan. If your FHA loan was made after June 3, 2013...they don't allow you to drop. You have to refinance to get out of it....then if it is an investment property you might need 25% equity to get investor loan. Just something to think about. I hate MI too and whatever you can do to get rid of it, probably makes good financial sense.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    I hate Pmi so I vote pay that off
  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 52 votes
    8y
    Thank you Caleb Heimsoth I also hate it. Just wanted some feed back from others who know what they're doing prior to plopping down over 3k to get savings, ya know? 😊 When I look at the appreciation putting down all I had at the time for only 3.5% I know it was the right choice.. But I am VERY much looking to kill it now that we've been able to improve our situation.
  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    8y

    Principal payments are NEVER deductible.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    8y

    So what if you could buy a tax lien house for 5000 and rent it forever? I have bought houses for as little as 1200 that already had a built in tenant. Where do you think you would be getting a better return on your money?

  • Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2017 · 295 posts · 229 votes
    8y

    I agree with @Caleb Heimsoth. I am very anti PMI. I just paid down my primary home's FHA mortgage $14k a few weeks ago to finally remove PMI. I still had 3.5 years of PMI, so I ended up saving $6,500 on PMI payments. I feel bad for the people who got FHA loans in July 2013.. they can't ever get PMI removed.

  • Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Are you sure your MIP drops off at 78%? Some FHA loans have MIP that never drops off the life of the loan. If your FHA loan was made after June 3, 2013...they don't allow you to drop. You have to refinance to get out of it....then if it is an investment property you might need 25% equity to get investor loan. Just something to think about. I hate MI too and whatever you can do to get rid of it, probably makes good financial sense.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 52 votes
    8y
    Thanks Amy Herzing that makes me feel more comfortable I'm right decision! And thank you @Steve babiak I was pretty sure, but always worth confirming as I'm looking to put a tiny bit of capital to work. John Underwood I agree and would love to do that, but here we are a tax lien state, so the probability of me ending up with a property from a tax lien is around 1-4% from my research. I still plan on buying some, just not with this money to pay off the MIP, which is a definite savings over 12%. @Bruce Lynn. Yes I'm sure. We originated the note on 11/12. I really want to keep that 3.5% note! I hate paying down principle rather than investing, but in this case it looks like it will return better savings than I could get in gain with the same cash. Really appreciate you all chiming in with your experience & knowledge, thank you so much!!
  • Realtor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 140 posts · 53 votes
    8y

    Hi @Steve C.,

    If it helps you at all, NV is actually a hybrid state, so they have both lien and deed auctions if that helps add to your research.  Also depending on the county, unsold parcels may be available for purchase (also known as "OTC).

    Cheers,

    Doug

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2017 · 89 posts · 52 votes
    8y
    Thank you @Doig Phillips i was unaware of of that. Of course.. I wouldn't want to end up owning a rental way up near Reno or somewhere in between, as I'm still working FT job, pretty new to Landlording and for now want to keep my portfolio near by for self management as I learn what I would eventually want out of PM & how I'd like them to operate. I want to stick near my good Ol Clark county for now, but in the future that knowledge may come in very handy! Thank you!
  • Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
    8y

    @Steve C. out of curiosity are you only interested in tax liens in Nevada?

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