Any Experience with Carnegie Prosource Tax Liens Training?

Annapolis, MD · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 2 votes

Is anyone familiar with the Carnegie Prosource Tax Lien training? Has anyone taken their training/used their software? I went to the free seminar and paid $300 for the 3 day class next week. I have wanted to learn about tax liens, and this seemed like a good step. It doesn't sound like they are selling a system but rather they profit when you buy more advanced trainings. They say they provide all who attend the training an easy to read list of liens in whatever county you choose and access to their software...free... I'd love any insights from those with experience in tax liens or this training group. Thanks!

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Ned CareyPro Member

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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes

@Annie Bollini I never heard of them. $300 is probably a good way to learn some basics. But keep your wallet in your pocket. I suspected it would be as @Adrienne Medina mentioned. They make their money from advanced training and selling liens. My strong belief is the training will still not give you what you need and the liens they are selling are crap. It sounds like they are playing on your ignorance.

There is no reason to "sell a lien cheap" for the original holder of the lien unless they know they have a looser. It would be a rare situation that someone would sell at a loss when they know they can hold on a recoup their investment with interest. I have sold some of my liens but I sell them at a Premium not a discount.

"we make it up in volume" is generally a bogus line. Very very few businesses can do that.

"We will help you vet the liens" So they are going to help you get the best ones so they are stuck with the worst ones?

"with this method of buying after redemption" The redemption period in many areas doesn't end until the foreclosure is final. That is what "Foreclosure" means; to foreclose the right of redemption.

"1 in 10 end in a property as opposed to 1 in 100 for a do it yourselfer." Other companies that do this are selling crap liens and the reason they have a high foreclosure rate is it is property no one wants.

Tax lien investing is a very competitive business. The margins are slim especially for the big guys. There simply isn't room for a middleman and you to make a profit.

Yes learn what you can and you can do well in tax lien investing. I do. Rely on a company like I suspect these people are and you are asking for mediocre results at best. Why pay big money to get poor results?

I base the above on 15 year of tax lien investing. Annie, I invest in MD so I know specifically what I am talking about here.

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
7y
@Annie Bollini $300 sound like a good investment for 3 days worth of training. Anything beyond this $300 I would not do. I can answer most any questions you still have after your class. The county that has an auction that you want to attend can provide you with an up to date delinquent tax sale list.
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Annie Bollini
OP
Annapolis, MD · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 2 votes
7y
@John Underwood Thanks for being willing to answer questions! I will be in touch after the training.
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Joe Martella
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
7y
Yeah. Sounds like they are going to try to sell you a larger package during that three day course. I wouldn’t buy it. I invest in tax liens in NJ and now starting to venture into Pennsylvania which is a tax deed state. There is plenty of information out there with books and internet searches that can give you the information needed.
As far as the software, tracking the liens are important. I have anywhere between 25-40 liens outstanding at any given time. I created my own spreadsheet and track the redeemed vs outstanding and subsequent years.
98% of tax liens redeem so if you are looking to get a property don’t count on it with liens. You have a better shot with deeds.
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Adrienne Medina
Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 17 posts · 9 votes
7y
I am in the training this weekend. There is an option to purchase further education to the tune of 5 digits but for that they say ProSource has bought 70 million of tax liens from the secondary market just this year (hedge fund gamblers u loading before redemption period expires?) that they are able to buy cheap and sell to students at a small profit but that is where there money is made in volume. They will help the student with next steps but they vet the liens they are selling and with this method of buying after redemption 1 in 10 end in a property as opposed to 1 in 100 for a do it yourselfer. Any thoughts on that?? Debating whether to buy in...
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Ned CareyPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Annie Bollini I never heard of them. $300 is probably a good way to learn some basics. But keep your wallet in your pocket. I suspected it would be as @Adrienne Medina mentioned. They make their money from advanced training and selling liens. My strong belief is the training will still not give you what you need and the liens they are selling are crap. It sounds like they are playing on your ignorance.
There is no reason to "sell a lien cheap" for the original holder of the lien unless they know they have a looser. It would be a rare situation that someone would sell at a loss when they know they can hold on a recoup their investment with interest. I have sold some of my liens but I sell them at a Premium not a discount.
"we make it up in volume" is generally a bogus line. Very very few businesses can do that.
"We will help you vet the liens" So they are going to help you get the best ones so they are stuck with the worst ones?
"with this method of buying after redemption" The redemption period in many areas doesn't end until the foreclosure is final. That is what "Foreclosure" means; to foreclose the right of redemption.
"1 in 10 end in a property as opposed to 1 in 100 for a do it yourselfer." Other companies that do this are selling crap liens and the reason they have a high foreclosure rate is it is property no one wants.
Tax lien investing is a very competitive business. The margins are slim especially for the big guys. There simply isn't room for a middleman and you to make a profit.
Yes learn what you can and you can do well in tax lien investing. I do. Rely on a company like I suspect these people are and you are asking for mediocre results at best. Why pay big money to get poor results?
I base the above on 15 year of tax lien investing. Annie, I invest in MD so I know specifically what I am talking about here.
4 Reply
David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
I WAS in the same training as Adrienne. Attended the free seminar and paid $600 for the 3 day workshop/training and was led to believe that we would have access to the software and other tools to acquire tax liens. Having to buy into their system was NOT mentioned during the free seminar. So, after day 1 of the 3 day workshop, I emailed one of the “consultants” there and advised that I would not attend the remaining 2 days of training. I expressed my concerns of having to pay over $30,000 to use their system, among other things. I know that I can research and buy here In Clark county on my own! I respectfully asked for a refund of my $600 and was told via email that my request would be forwarded to their office. We will see what happens.......
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

@Annie Bollini I never heard of them. $300 is probably a good way to learn some basics. But keep your wallet in your pocket. I suspected it would be as @Adrienne Medina mentioned. They make their money from advanced training and selling liens. My strong belief is the training will still not give you what you need and the liens they are selling are crap. It sounds like they are playing on your ignorance.
There is no reason to "sell a lien cheap" for the original holder of the lien unless they know they have a looser. It would be a rare situation that someone would sell at a loss when they know they can hold on a recoup their investment with interest. I have sold some of my liens but I sell them at a Premium not a discount.
"we make it up in volume" is generally a bogus line. Very very few businesses can do that.
"We will help you vet the liens" So they are going to help you get the best ones so they are stuck with the worst ones?
"with this method of buying after redemption" The redemption period in many areas doesn't end until the foreclosure is final. That is what "Foreclosure" means; to foreclose the right of redemption.
"1 in 10 end in a property as opposed to 1 in 100 for a do it yourselfer." Other companies that do this are selling crap liens and the reason they have a high foreclosure rate is it is property no one wants.
Tax lien investing is a very competitive business. The margins are slim especially for the big guys. There simply isn't room for a middleman and you to make a profit.
Yes learn what you can and you can do well in tax lien investing. I do. Rely on a company like I suspect these people are and you are asking for mediocre results at best. Why pay big money to get poor results?
I base the above on 15 year of tax lien investing. Annie, I invest in MD so I know specifically what I am talking about here.
Yup massive upsell and no way what she describes happens.. you simply don't end up with 1 an 10.. if you want to own the property the way to do that is simply compete at auctions in tax deed states Like CA.. and you don't need advanced training.. simply get on bid 4 assets website and register and you can see most every tax deed auction that's coming up.. state county bid items dates etc.. this is all public information. Tax Certs are a specialty niche that one needs to really put the time and effort into. Or just be in a state and buy some in tertiary counties were there is not the massive competition ..
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David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Adrienne Medina Hi Adrienne. Just curious as to how many people bought into the Prosource system? See my first post below....... Thanks!
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Ned CareyPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@David French wrote
If you have $500k to invest , it will take you at least a year perhaps several to recoup your $30k.
2 Reply
Annie Bollini
OP
Annapolis, MD · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 2 votes
7y
These are helpful comments. Sounds like I should go to the training and learn what I can about the process but not buy what they are selling. I'll report back after and I'm sure will have some more questions. Thank you all for the comments so far...
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Adrienne Medina
Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 17 posts · 9 votes
7y
@David French I would say a good 9 or 10 people bought it. I even saw one older couple pulling out 3 credit cards to pay for it :( I felt horrible for them. @Annie Bollini if you have any real estate or investment foundation I think you will find only about 8 hours of helpful info. The rest is more psychological fluff to make you feel like you aren't part of the "herd" and missing out on opportunities (which is to spend 34k on their program). I almost bought in but couldn't find ANYTHING on ProSource. After some deeper digging I found the LLC that owns it had the same address as the LLC that owns Tax Lien Buyers Club. Coincidence?? I think not. I found tons of negative stuff on TLBC. So glad I did because that kept me from running up my own credit cards.
2 Reply
David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Adrienne Medina wrote if you have any real estate or investment foundation I think you will find only about 8 hours of helpful info. The rest is more psychological fluff to make you feel like you aren't part of the "herd" and missing out on opportunities (which is to spend 34k on their program). I almost bought in but couldn't find ANYTHING on ProSource. After some deeper digging I found the LLC that owns it had the same address as the LLC that owns Tax Lien Buyers Club. Coincidence?? I think not. I found tons of negative stuff on TLBC. So glad I did because that kept me from running up my own credit cards. I agree 100%! I discovered the same thing with the address! One thing that amazed me was that when the speaker announced the price Friday mid morning, not one person asked or showed concern about the estimated pay back tIme! I found the “herd” reference funny as anyone who actually buys into the Prosource program is now part of a “herd” albeit $34,000 lighter.......
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David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Adrienne Medina Sorry but I’m still figuring out how to repost “quotes” from others. Adrienne, here is my reply to you: I agree 100%! I discovered the same thing with the address! One thing that amazed me was that when the speaker announced the price Friday mid morning, not one person asked or showed concern about the estimated pay back tIme! I found the “herd” reference funny as anyone who actually buys into the Prosource program is now part of a “herd” albeit $34,000 lighter.......
1 Reply
Annie Bollini
OP
Annapolis, MD · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 2 votes
7y
@Adrienne Medina A lot of people bought in. Thanks for doing deeper digging to make that connection. I saw posts from over a year ago in the forum on the buyers club. So, 8 hours of useful information sounds good. Is it on a particular day, maybe Friday, or spread across the days? Thanks!
0 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Adrienne Medina:
@David French I would say a good 9 or 10 people bought it. I even saw one older couple pulling out 3 credit cards to pay for it :( I felt horrible for them. @Annie Bollini if you have any real estate or investment foundation I think you will find only about 8 hours of helpful info. The rest is more psychological fluff to make you feel like you aren't part of the "herd" and missing out on opportunities (which is to spend 34k on their program). I almost bought in but couldn't find ANYTHING on ProSource. After some deeper digging I found the LLC that owns it had the same address as the LLC that owns Tax Lien Buyers Club. Coincidence?? I think not. I found tons of negative stuff on TLBC. So glad I did because that kept me from running up my own credit cards.
yes I think Jason Hartman had some interesting interaction with the owners of TLBC and based on that one would want to exercise caution to the extreme. sounds like a rebranding and of course throw Carneige in the name for subliminal approval
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2 Reply
Adrienne Medina
Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 17 posts · 9 votes
7y
@Annie Bollini it is spread over 3 days. So I felt like 2 entire days were wasted. And when I say 8 hours, it is stuff I just never knew but not much on the actual 'how to' buy tax liens, all very general info...stuff you could find easily on your own. But do what you think is best for you!
0 Reply
Annie Bollini
OP
Annapolis, MD · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 2 votes
7y
@Adrienne Medina Thanks! Wish it were all on the first day! And I want "How to..." Glad you got some useful info.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Adrienne Medina:
@David French I would say a good 9 or 10 people bought it. I even saw one older couple pulling out 3 credit cards to pay for it :( I felt horrible for them. @Annie Bollini if you have any real estate or investment foundation I think you will find only about 8 hours of helpful info. The rest is more psychological fluff to make you feel like you aren't part of the "herd" and missing out on opportunities (which is to spend 34k on their program). I almost bought in but couldn't find ANYTHING on ProSource. After some deeper digging I found the LLC that owns it had the same address as the LLC that owns Tax Lien Buyers Club. Coincidence?? I think not. I found tons of negative stuff on TLBC. So glad I did because that kept me from running up my own credit cards.
Looks like Nevada is a tax deed state.. ???
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David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Jay Hinrichs Clark county (Las Vegas area) is mostly Tax Liens with the remainder of the state being tax deeds.....
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @David French:
@Jay Hinrichs Clark county (Las Vegas area) is mostly Tax Liens with the remainder of the state being tax deeds.....
OK got it.. I suspect Clark county tax liens are quite competitive these days.. ??? do interest rates get bid down ?
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David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
@Jay Hinrichs From what I know so far, yes, the tax liens do get bid down.
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Jason Hartman
Rental Property Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2012 · 314 posts · 146 votes
7y
Interesting. Thanks @Jay Hinrichs
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jason Hartman:

Interesting. Thanks @Jay Hinrichs
NP lets connect this week
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Dennis Weber
Real Estate Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 316 posts · 165 votes
7y
Over $30k for tax lien training!? Someone’s out of their fricking mind! Heck! I’ll sell training for 10k and still be ripping them off!
1 Reply
David French
Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 1 vote
7y
UPDATE to my original post: “I WAS in the same training as Adrienne. Attended the free seminar and paid $600 for the 3 day workshop/training and was led to believe that we would have access to the software and other tools to acquire tax liens. Having to buy into their system was NOT mentioned during the free seminar. So, after day 1 of the 3 day workshop, I emailed one of the “consultants” there and advised that I would not attend the remaining 2 days of training. I expressed my concerns of having to pay over $30,000 to use their system, among other things. I know that I can research and buy here In Clark county on my own! I respectfully asked for a refund of my $600 and was told via email that my request would be forwarded to their office.We will see what happens.......” Today a $600 credit appeared on my credit card! So, Prosource/Carnegie did the right thing once I asked for the refund.
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