Opinions on Holton-Wise Property Group

Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 21 votes

Does anyone here have experience with Holton-Wise Property Group? Both from an investment property acquisition perspective, and from a property management perspective?

Feel free to PM me if you prefer to keep your opinion non-public.

0 Reply

339 views

Most Popular Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

@Brandon Reinhardt I see this back and forth of a classic OOS investor who buys something wanting the greatest return possible but then expects them to perform like they bought a rental in Cupertino LOL.

get used to it... 550 renters anywhere in any big city are in constant turn over.. you ... but your right no need to reach for higher rent every month you stay vacant you lost ONE YEAR to make it up.. not many realize what you realize

I think Jim is about as honest as anyone in the space describing the challenges in C D class rentals.. I think buyers just choose to ignore the advice and or think for some reason their results will be different.

Podcast Guest on Show #222

JLH Capital Partners51 Review

Website View Page

20 Reply

See this reply in the discussion

122 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y
Top multifamily broker in the Cleveland market. As far as I am aware James Wise is top notch at what he does. Cleveland isnt really a market I would be looking to get into, as I have sort of that East/West coast bias, but if I were, Holton-Wise is who I would use.
[email protected]301-893-4635 Podcast Guest on Show #192
District Invest Group546 Reviews
Website View Page
4 Reply
Gwen Fyfe
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 287 votes
9y
I wouldn't do business with them. James says right on his profile here that he also owns a MLM company. I have a huge moral problem with that type of business. Multi-level marketing is so often based on taking advantage of the people at the bottom and not giving them full information. That business approach seems like a nightmare for an out of state turnkey investor to get involved with, if you ask me.
Hey, maybe other people don't have the problem with it that I do, and maybe they don't carry the approach from one business to the other. I don't know. I've never seen anyone say anything bad about them on these forums, but then, James is a mod. It's always interesting to get people's takes in person.
I've also had a couple beers with out of state investors who were visiting Cleveland, and more than one have said they had trouble getting much responsiveness from Holton-Wise.
There's no question that they're knowledgeable on the market. The Cleveland neighborhood map James put together is indispensable for people just getting to know the area. If you're interested in the West side in particular, I'm sure they're worth a look. I'd just be very hesitant myself.
10 Reply
Andrew Johnson
Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
William Carroll Well, they have an “F” on BBB, not that I put too much faith in it: https://www.bbb.org/cleveland/business-reviews/real-estate-brokers/the-holton-wise-property-group-in-parma-oh-92014497 Google Reviews aren’t kind but a lot of them are from tenants. Again, I wouldn’t put too much weight on angry tenant posts. So maybe the first step is figuring out what services you want from them: use them as an agent, join their MLM company, rent a property they manage, etc.
5 Reply
William Carroll
OP
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 21 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Andrew Johnson:
join their MLM company
LOL yeah, I won't be doing that.
For investors, non-BP reviews of PM companies on public forums are typically useless, because it's usually pissed off tenants who are complaining about things the PM is doing that I may want (like making them pay on time, late fees, evictions for dangerous dogs, etc...) . If I were following those, I wouldn't have my current PM (non-Cleveland market), who's very good.
2 Reply
Matt K.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
Curious where the value is for you since your local?
0 Reply
William Carroll
OP
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 21 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Curious where the value is for you since your local?
Columbus is 2.5-3 hours from Cleveland. Not exactly local. And I don't know the Cleveland market intimately like I do Columbus, so I'd like to find someone I can trust to help.
The value is that I have learned the past few years that I'm better off using professionals to help me find and manage properties, while I focus on my highly time-consuming but well-compensated profession. I want the most 'passive' real estate portfolio possible, even if that comes at a cost of having a couple of others eating off my plate.
At some point several years from now, I may retire from Corporate America and have more time to spend on acquisition and self management to reduce my overall costs. But for now the goal is 'passive as possible'.
5 Reply
Ann Shanley
Investor · Lake County, OH · Member since 2016 · 124 posts · 55 votes
8y
Russell, I am curious as to why you aren't interested in Cleveland Ohio market?
0 Reply
Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Ann Shanley:

Russell, I am curious as to why you aren't interested in Cleveland Ohio market?
Because I live in DC and invest primarily locally. I also dabble in Boston where I am originally from and I prefer markets like Boston and DC to the Midwest and rust belt.
[email protected]301-893-4635 Podcast Guest on Show #192
District Invest Group546 Reviews
Website View Page
0 Reply
Matt K.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @William Carroll:

Originally posted by @Matt K.:

Curious where the value is for you since your local?
Columbus is 2.5-3 hours from Cleveland. Not exactly local. And I don't know the Cleveland market intimately like I do Columbus, so I'd like to find someone I can trust to help.
The value is that I have learned the past few years that I'm better off using professionals to help me find and manage properties, while I focus on my highly time-consuming but well-compensated profession. I want the most 'passive' real estate portfolio possible, even if that comes at a cost of having a couple of others eating off my plate.
At some point several years from now, I may retire from Corporate America and have more time to spend on acquisition and self management to reduce my overall costs. But for now the goal is 'passive as possible'.
2 hrs isn't that bad, but I'm from a commuting hell hole where it can take me 2 hrs to get home haha. Totally understand the time/money thing... and that makes sense of where the value of TK company comes in. If you want passive what about investing in notes? Lot more passive than land lording... but does require more capital.
0 Reply
Hau N.
CA · Member since 2017 · 153 posts · 74 votes
8y
Bumping... I'm interested in the topic of this post as well.
0 Reply
William Carroll
OP
Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 21 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Matt K.:

Originally posted by @William Carroll:
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
If you want passive what about investing in notes? Lot more passive than land lording... but does require more capital.
Maybe at some point. I would need to spend some time understanding how to buy, manage, and liquidate (if needed) notes. I've done some basic research, but would need to get a more specific strategy. It's also not clear to me if the long-term returns would be any better than owning the physical asset... one bad default could wipe out several years of returns.
Also, one thing I like owning a real estate is that in addition to the cash flow, you have (assuming you buy correctly) an appreciating asset as part of your overall net worth.
1 Reply
Luke Terry
Flipper/Rehabber · Twinsburg, OH · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 27 votes
8y
I'm new to the area and planning on contacting them this week to get a better understanding of the market and how they can help connect me with lenders and property managers as well as properties. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.
1 Reply
Stacy Weng
Fairfax, VA · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 35 votes
8y
@Luke Terry Let me know how it goes with them, I'm also interested in Cleveland as a market and looking for a reputable company to work with.
1 Reply
Krista Walker
Cave Creek, AZ · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 13 votes
8y
I'm under contract with Holton-Wise...will let you know how it goes...
3 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @William Carroll:

Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Originally posted by @William Carroll:

Originally posted by @Matt K.:

If you want passive what about investing in notes? Lot more passive than land lording... but does require more capital.
Maybe at some point. I would need to spend some time understanding how to buy, manage, and liquidate (if needed) notes. I've done some basic research, but would need to get a more specific strategy. It's also not clear to me if the long-term returns would be any better than owning the physical asset... one bad default could wipe out several years of returns.
Also, one thing I like owning a real estate is that in addition to the cash flow, you have (assuming you buy correctly) an appreciating asset as part of your overall net worth.
same can be said for a bummer tenant that destroys your home wont pay rent takes months to remove.. its all some form of risk that can be mitigated to a certain extent.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
Website View Page
0 Reply
Brandon Reinhardt
Real Estate Professional · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 23 votes
8y
Avoid like the plague. Bought a deal from a HW agent and seller was represented by James Wise. The seller was a mutlifamily flipper and had placed terrible tenants. Within 6 months of acquisition there were failures to pay, evictions and thrashed units. You would think that someone who owns a property management company would have placed solid tenants. To top it off, it was next to impossible to reach anyone in their management company. At a minimum it would take 2-3 days to get a call back, not fun when you are a couple thousand miles away and getting $4,000 repair bills from the management company and no photographic evidence.
13 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
@Brandon Reinhardt
It is unfortunate that your investment is running rocky. However placing blame on Holton-Wise doesn't make much sense when you knew the risks of the particular asset you were interested in going into this. If you touch the stove do not get mad if you burn your hand.
You purchased a 4 unit property for $112,000. This property came with 3 inherited tenants & is right smack dab in the middle of a D-CLASS area. I talk about & put out countless content about the risks associated with these types of assets. Some of the more popular publications I have put out are on my YouTube channel. In addition to that I have posted the following all over Bigger Pockets.
The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods.
TENANTS FROM HELL #1 Deplorable living conditions. PICS INCLUDED!
TENANTS FROM HELL #2 Tubs & Showers from hell. PICS INCLUDED!
The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods has well over 40,000 views alone. So to place blame on Holton-Wise for the behavior of high risk tenants who weren't even screened by Holton-Wise is a little silly no? You knew the risks going into this high risk property. If you are looking to take on a big down side risk in hope to hit the big up side gain don't blame others when you run into normal speed bumps. This stuff is par for the course.
If you would like a less risky property you are well aware you need to purchase properties in higher asset classes. I have not spoken to you personally but have been informed by the Holton-Wise agent that represented you in this transaction @Anthony Aviles that moving up in asset class was not something you were interested in doing. You didn't want to pay a higher price per unit. You bought what you wanted to buy. All of the risks were laid out. You employed your own 3rd party home inspector, had lender appraise the property & give you a loan to purchase it. You bought exactly what you wanted for a fair price. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for your repair bills. Our prices are incredibly competitive. If $4,000 worth of work is needed to get your unit rent ready we are going to have to bill you $4,000? Not sure what else can be said about that. We provide photos of all repair work to all of our clients. I will post the photos that were provided to you at the bottom of this post.
Lastly, As for the communication. It is always our goal to respond to all of our management clients within 1 business day. Expecting a management company of our size to get back to every person about every situation is not feasible. It appears as though we may have fell a little short of that 1 business day mark with you a few times, for that I apologize. I will counsel my staff to ensure we are hitting that mark in the future.
8 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Photos of repair/renovation work performed by Holton-Wise continued.
0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Photos of repair/renovation work performed by Holton-Wise continued.
0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Photos of repairs needed
0 Reply
Gwen Fyfe
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 287 votes
8y
What the hell? James, can I assume you didn't get Brandon's permission to post details and photographs of his property?
5 Reply
Brandon Reinhardt
Real Estate Professional · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 23 votes
8y
Absolutely not, but give me a few minutes, you're all going to love these invoices and marketing I was sent on the property!!! Forthcoming!
0 Reply
Gwen Fyfe
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 287 votes
8y
I feel like James being a mod on here is starting to be a conflict of interest. I mean, if a post of his gets flagged who does it go to? What about his staff's posts? And how openly and honestly can people share their experiences of his company if he shows up with the Moderator tag to post a bunch of photos of the poster's property when there's criticism?
1 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Gwen Fyfe:

What the hell? James, can I assume you didn't get Brandon's permission to post details and photographs of his property?
I don't know what would lead you to believe that I would need Brandon's permission to post my own photos? Or post information about the property that I publicly advertised & sold.
5 Reply
Gwen Fyfe
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 227 posts · 287 votes
8y
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Gwen Fyfe:
What the hell? James, can I assume you didn't get Brandon's permission to post details and photographs of his property?
I don't know what would lead you to believe that I would need Brandon's permission to post my own photos? Or post information about the property that I publicly advertised & sold.
I guess it's probably my sense of decency and respect for customer privacy.
4 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.