@Steven Morris you said "West Dayton and North Dayton". To be clear, are you referring to the north side of town - i.e. near Good Sam Hospital; streets like Siebenthaler, Needmore, etc.? I only ask because even some of the locals tend to confuse the northern edges of Dayton proper with the Old North Dayton neighborhood. I know the OP included a map, but I still don't want to assume.
That said, just about all of the City of Dayton can be evaluated on street-by-street, block-by-block basis. To make broad generalizations or assumptions about entire quadrants of the city being "problem areas" is an error in judgement, in my opinion.
Now, there are areas on the west side that I definitely try to avoid, but if I have to go there, I make sure to do it in the morning hours when most of the delinquents are sleeping. That doesn't mean that the entire west side of town is like that. (I also would put areas of east Dayton I would put in that same category.)
As far as Old North Dayton goes, I've spent a fair amount of time in this area over the last few months (including after my last comment in this post), and I certainly wouldn't lump it in with most of the west side. I didn't see groups of people congregating on porches or street corners, nor did I see any kids hanging around ... because they're in school like they're supposed to be at 11:30 AM on a weekday. The extreme southwest corner of what I've outlined (west of Troy and south of Chapel) is the only area I would hesitate to buy right now.
I also wouldn't want anything on the main thoroughfares (i.e. Troy and Leo), but that goes for almost any urban neighborhood as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority of the inner streets are not bad; C to C+ all day. Many of the derelict houses have been torn down, and a lot of the remaining vacant properties are being snapped up by investors. I've sold (for others) 6 properties in that neighborhood in the last 60 days - all were vacant and run down, and all of them were bought by experienced investors (their condition prohibited most would-be homeowners from considering them). There are also some owner-occupant sales happening, and the majority of the occupied homes are well-kept. Overall, I think the neighborhood is definitely on the upswing.
Old North Dayton is a C+ area, working class neighborhood. A significant number of immigrants choosing this area to settle have done quite bit to help turn the area around since the market crash.
North Dayton and West Dayton are problem areas. Some parts of North Dayton are decent. I've got a great relationship with the owners of a local pizza chain. I can tell you if their drivers deliver there or not. If they dont deliver there safe to say it's a bad area. Areas tend to get blocked when a driver gets robbed or something of the sort. That being said you can call into a local pizza chain and see if they deliver there in just about any city. I know the North Dayton pizza shop im talking about has been robbed a few times, and the drivers have also been robbed on occasion.
I think this areas probably ok though but I wouldnt call it C+.
@Steven Morris you said "West Dayton and North Dayton". To be clear, are you referring to the north side of town - i.e. near Good Sam Hospital; streets like Siebenthaler, Needmore, etc.? I only ask because even some of the locals tend to confuse the northern edges of Dayton proper with the Old North Dayton neighborhood. I know the OP included a map, but I still don't want to assume.
That said, just about all of the City of Dayton can be evaluated on street-by-street, block-by-block basis. To make broad generalizations or assumptions about entire quadrants of the city being "problem areas" is an error in judgement, in my opinion.
Now, there are areas on the west side that I definitely try to avoid, but if I have to go there, I make sure to do it in the morning hours when most of the delinquents are sleeping. That doesn't mean that the entire west side of town is like that. (I also would put areas of east Dayton I would put in that same category.)
As far as Old North Dayton goes, I've spent a fair amount of time in this area over the last few months (including after my last comment in this post), and I certainly wouldn't lump it in with most of the west side. I didn't see groups of people congregating on porches or street corners, nor did I see any kids hanging around ... because they're in school like they're supposed to be at 11:30 AM on a weekday. The extreme southwest corner of what I've outlined (west of Troy and south of Chapel) is the only area I would hesitate to buy right now.
I also wouldn't want anything on the main thoroughfares (i.e. Troy and Leo), but that goes for almost any urban neighborhood as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority of the inner streets are not bad; C to C+ all day. Many of the derelict houses have been torn down, and a lot of the remaining vacant properties are being snapped up by investors. I've sold (for others) 6 properties in that neighborhood in the last 60 days - all were vacant and run down, and all of them were bought by experienced investors (their condition prohibited most would-be homeowners from considering them). There are also some owner-occupant sales happening, and the majority of the occupied homes are well-kept. Overall, I think the neighborhood is definitely on the upswing.
@Steven Morris you said "West Dayton and North Dayton". To be clear, are you referring to the north side of town - i.e. near Good Sam Hospital; streets like Siebenthaler, Needmore, etc.? I only ask because even some of the locals tend to confuse the northern edges of Dayton proper with the Old North Dayton neighborhood. I know the OP included a map, but I still don't want to assume.
That said, just about all of the City of Dayton can be evaluated on street-by-street, block-by-block basis. To make broad generalizations or assumptions about entire quadrants of the city being "problem areas" is an error in judgement, in my opinion.
Now, there are areas on the west side that I definitely try to avoid, but if I have to go there, I make sure to do it in the morning hours when most of the delinquents are sleeping. That doesn't mean that the entire west side of town is like that. (I also would put areas of east Dayton I would put in that same category.)
As far as Old North Dayton goes, I've spent a fair amount of time in this area over the last few months (including after my last comment in this post), and I certainly wouldn't lump it in with most of the west side. I didn't see groups of people congregating on porches or street corners, nor did I see any kids hanging around ... because they're in school like they're supposed to be at 11:30 AM on a weekday. The extreme southwest corner of what I've outlined (west of Troy and south of Chapel) is the only area I would hesitate to buy right now.
I also wouldn't want anything on the main thoroughfares (i.e. Troy and Leo), but that goes for almost any urban neighborhood as far as I'm concerned. The vast majority of the inner streets are not bad; C to C+ all day. Many of the derelict houses have been torn down, and a lot of the remaining vacant properties are being snapped up by investors. I've sold (for others) 6 properties in that neighborhood in the last 60 days - all were vacant and run down, and all of them were bought by experienced investors (their condition prohibited most would-be homeowners from considering them). There are also some owner-occupant sales happening, and the majority of the occupied homes are well-kept. Overall, I think the neighborhood is definitely on the upswing.
That is the "good part" of old north Dayton. Lots of rehab jobs, a new school on Leo St., and the neighborhood is up in price and appearance so much that it has certainly improved dramatically since I bought a house at Leo and Notre Dame in 2012. That house has returned all my initial investment and going on double the initial investment. Buy and hold is a good strategy.
Theft has been an issue during the rehab stages until someone moves in.
I purchased a home on Notre Dame in 2016. I am an out of state investor. I saw several properties in Dayton and decided on Notre Dame . When I flew back a month later to change the locks and do a few things to get rental ready-3 neighbors from 3 different homes came to my door. They were all people over 60 and they all knew the previous owner. They wanted to know what I was doing there. It made me feel comfortable right away. I knew with these people in the neighborhood,not too much was going to go on un noticed in my rental. I would make another purchase on Notre Dame if the price was right without hesitation.
What is everyone’s opinion on Hulman st area in what I consider the West Dayton area. I like the simplicity of that style brick home built in the mid ‘50’s for rentals.
@Christopher Toth I'm not an expert on the area, but I looked it up on Zillow and Google maps. Decent brick homes for the Zestimate. I'd buy one. The only downside I see is that Dayton City Schools is not rated well as a school district.
I have not been on that specific block and if it is a nice one, it helps a lot with renting. That area has a lot of vacancies and a lot of tear downs are still needed. They are getting to them, though. The 1950s brick homes are about the best built and lowest maintenance. Also extremely popular with today's renters are the 1960s and 1920s. I would give the overall hulman area a D+.
You know it may be that, things are changing so fast these days in the downtown area and these 1950s areas don't take that much to bring back to vibrancy. Places are snapping from D to b/c practically overnight in some spots. If so, then I say buy! I'll make a point of swinging through there and get back with a more informed opinion on that specific street. In and around Greenwich village last time through looked pretty forlorn.
Looks like you ARE more like c/b there, the far more dilapidated Greenwich village area is south of hillcrest (still very nearby). Northern hills and neighboring fort mckinley are really coming on strong in the last few years so you could get some very strong price appreciation. So too, is old north dayton where this thread started. The riverside drive corridor.. North main corridor.. These places are seeing appreciation like 30% per year lately. The way they are tearing down nuisance houses, westbrook will be the next place to snap up.
@Christopher Toth 1950s brick ranches, mostly 3BR. Depending on SF, and # of baths, rents are around $850-900, give or take, and ARV could range anywhere from $55 - 80K. Not much activity in the way of sales - at least not in the MLS anyway. I consider that to be a positive sign, unless the area is blighted (this one isn't.) I'd call this a C+ area, and like a large part of Dayton proper, I wouldn't plan on any appreciation. Hopefully that helps clear things up for you.
The better parts of Dayton proper have been on an absolute tear price wise with average list prices roughly doubling over the last two years for the areas I own and watch closely in 45404 and 45405. I don't think you can count on appreciation, as @Christina Carey says, but it is also important to realize we have been appreciating. It can make it tough to get an appraisal to justify current list prices.
Thank you @Gordon Starr for taking a look over there. Much appreciated. I like to get many opinions of the many pockets of Dayton. I value your knowledge of that area. I am under contract with a house on Hulman that just appraised for more than the contract price. So that's a good sign. I also agree with you on the old North Dayton area. I have a house there too near Stuart Patterson Park. I like that area to invest, however it is near a flood zone, something to keep in the back of your head, but not a deal breaker.
@Christina Carey Thank you for your knowledge too! based on your rent numbers, i might be renting below markets rents. I'm renting a 3bed 1 bath, 970 sqft, for $775. According to rentometer.com for that area $700 is the median. (based on beds and baths, not sqft).
Sound like you are positioned for major success @Christopher Toth ! The biggest thing to overcome is people's perception that the area is rough and/or blighted. It is right next to some areas that are D+ and you don't want people grouping Hulman in there (like I just did). Coming in on Ghettysburg ave is going to be a bit creepy for instance. Make sure your photos show a really nice place that highlight the original mid century modern all polished up! Finding a really nice house to rent is hard at any price and what you have will command a premium price.
Around grandview, long ago, was the very best part of Dayton. Then, the big money folks left for Oakwood. The area became blighted. Now it is bouncing back despite the cities retarded roadblocks that were designed to keep out hookers and drug dealers. How did they think that would work? Many of the houses are huge. Too big for a rental unless you house hack somehow. It is designated one of the city "tipping point" neighborhoods. This means lots of demo and city services helping bring the area around. I personally love the area. Especially Bellmonte park and Squirrel road. You may get a real bargain on a mansion.
@ Gordon Starr I think you are correct and on to something. I was in the Grandview neighborhood earlier this year. I had my eye on this mansion . I wanted it for a rental and knew that the size of this huge thing would be difficult for a tenant to rent and heat through the winter. In hind sight it would have made a great rooming house for college students or otherwise!
@Edo Tinjak I used to work at Grandview as a Med Tech. It was a scary place to leave at night, and still is. Almost everyone I worked with there lives far away in the suburbs. I really doubt that fixing a hospital would really pull this area up much at all, and is honestly a response to Good Sam closing. Unless they are planning a ton of preventive health operations/community health outreach they are just putting a band-aid on a broken bone.
Dayton has many issues, but has many chances to pull itself up. Currently there are a grand total of 1 grocery stores in the entire down town area. I think that the basics need to be covered before certain parts of the area can improve.
@ Courtney Jones I'd move into the grandest part and live there while I hack out a couple smaller one person apartments! Try and create a kinda protected, intimate setting for possible family or close friend or really studious students or hospital interns. An awful lot of people like to find such an apt. PM me if you are interested and I can tell you about doubling the equity last time I did this!