HWPG is going undercover at a Guru seminar

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HWPG is going undercover at a Guru seminar

James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Controversial TV flipper & Real estate Guru Armando Montelongo is coming to my town next month. I don't have much knowledge of him other then what I have read online & seen of his show. His show was pretty entertaining. I did enjoy watching it.

What I have taken away from online reviews is that he, like many other guru's brings attendees into their shows promising riches only to pull the bait and switch and get them on the hook for much higher packages using high pressure sales tactics. 

From what I have gathered Armando's seminar program works like this

1. Attendees go to a free seminar which is used to sell a 3 day seminar for about $1,500

2. Attendees go to the 3 day $1,500 seminar is used to rope them into the $40,000 VIP Bus tour

Here are some links to the information I have found on Armando & his seminars. The reviews that I have seen have been pretty negative.

Armando Montelongo review

Bigger Pockets Thread on Armando Montelongo

My business partner John Holton, myself & a couple of our employees will be going "undercover" & attending one of the free seminars next month.

We would like to accomplish a few things while we are there.

1. Satisfy our curiosity.

2. Give newbie Biggerpockets investors who may be considering a seminar like this the opportunity to learn exactly what a seminar like this is about.

3. Learn something? (who knows, maybe the bad reviews are false)

 I will be continuing to blog about the entire experience here on bigger pockets. I will be objective and will not leave anything out. The good, the bad & the ugly.

So investors, partners, colleagues, strangers & newbies.

Is there anything that you would like HWPG to ask Armando & his team?

Any rumors that you have heard that you would like us to attempt to get to the bottom of?

Any question that is posed on this forum we will do our best to present them to the salesman & women at the seminar.

P.S.

I would like to note that I am not against the education side of this business. There is a lot of value in education and a lot of money to be made providing this education. ($40,000 is of course extreme & I don't see how it could possibly benefit a new investor.) This site is an education site. There are many members on this site who are educators and seem to have great reputations. I would not shut the door on possibly doing something myself in the Real Estate education arena one day. 

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Jose Reyes
Full Time Rehabber · Covina, CA · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 22 votes
11y

This should be interesting. I personally know people that have attended and felt the whole thing was a sales pitch to lead them into buying the next seminar. 

Each and everyone of them felt it was a ripoff and a waste of time (for the most part). And I don't think I've come across a person that has gone onto have a great career in investing after they attend. 

I've also had other lunch/coffee meetings with multiple people that want to learn the basics of the biz after they have attended the free and weekend seminars and I was told they learned more from a 1 hour meeting with me, then they did in an entire weekend from this or other similar seminars. 

I always tell them the same thing. Hands on training from a local active investor is the best, always. Attend a local REI. Read BP forums for tons of info that is free and lastly seminar gurus are ONLY in it for 1 thing, MONEY.

Like someone stated in another post. The only seminar I'd pay for is specific marketing techniques in my local market. 

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  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    lol, well said @Roy N. 

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @James Wise 

      thanks for the deep intel... did you expect anything less ?  I was at a BP mastermind meet up this week in Chicago and 3 of the people there have been to advanced course's ( granted not Armonado's) But other paid mentors who charge as much if not more than Armondo and   they are killing it .. and credit it to their guru of choice which is like picking your religion.. Granted Jim this is all fun and games.. and BP has a definite bias against any paid training. But it was pretty cool to sit there with all these BP members who have paid for training who admitted they would not be where they are without it.  And I spent the day on Sat looking at millions of dollars worth of RE that this one student has bought. pretty impressive really... Now to be fair and balanced this person had a very successful company and had means.. I agree with you 1000% on the newbie no money folks

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  • Eric H.
    Real Estate Solutions Provider · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 571 posts · 452 votes
    11y

    @james wise.....Thank you for sharing this. I have been to quite a few of these things unfortunately. I guess it's luck that I wasn't suckered into the big 3 day bootcamp/seminar but I came close one time. Sounds like the same experience I had every time. They give you a sob story, a little bit of worthwhile information regarding real estate, and the rest is pitching for the next product. 

    1Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    Nice James. Thanks for checking. We got the info for free now. 

    1Reply
  • AJ S.
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 99 posts · 35 votes
    11y

    Thanks James, most of these people never come to seminars. They are in business of making money not teaching anything you can read or gain from BP or networking with other investors. Recently I attended Than Merril seminar, they are just interested to keep up-selling you to 5K seminar in which they can't guarantee your success.  The guy teaching the event looked like farmer they came out of a barn. They just go by different names, first it was Carlton Sheets, Russ Whitney, Kiyosaki, they are all being sued, just do keyword search (i.e. Russ Whitney scam). I'm sure you already knew all this :) Cleveland the only city with 3 sports teams!

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @James Wise 

      thanks for the deep intel... did you expect anything less ?  I was at a BP mastermind meet up this week in Chicago and 3 of the people there have been to advanced course's ( granted not Armonado's) But other paid mentors who charge as much if not more than Armondo and   they are killing it .. and credit it to their guru of choice which is like picking your religion.. Granted Jim this is all fun and games.. and BP has a definite bias against any paid training. But it was pretty cool to sit there with all these BP members who have paid for training who admitted they would not be where they are without it.  And I spent the day on Sat looking at millions of dollars worth of RE that this one student has bought. pretty impressive really... Now to be fair and balanced this person had a very successful company and had means.. I agree with you 1000% on the newbie no money folks

     Don't get me wrong Jay. I'm a salesman as well. I have sold everything from cell phones, to soda pop to Invisible Fences. I appreciate salesman & the skill it takes to sell a product. Whether that product is education, real estate or an invisible fence. 

    However, I was surprised by the blatant lies & misinformation they were giving to these people. The things this guy was saying was just not even close to how these transactions go in the real world.

    It's one thing to be good at selling something but to just plain lie to the misinformed is not right.

    I do not see how one could possibly benefit from paying someone to teach you the game if the info they are giving you is not correct.

    Perhaps once folks get up to the 40k level they do teach them the real information they need to help them propel their businesses. 

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    Thanks @Eric H. glad you enjoyed it.

    Just keep on reading BP.

    This is were Real Investors discuss real world strategies.

    No smoke & mirrors.

    You may not always like the answers you receive on this site but at least your getting the truth even if it is not tied up in a neat bow.

    Real Estate is both a profitable & difficult business. It is a fight every day.

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    @Matt R. 

    thanks for reading.

    AJ go cavs!

    0Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @James Wise 

      I guess those that attended the seminar got what they paid for.. Free event and free advice.. much like what you get on BP... some BP advice is good some is not so good and some is down right dangerous. nothing different really.

    Not defending these guys by any means.. I did find it interesting though the folks I talked to in Chicago this week who have done so well with the Guru they choose.

    Again I just look at this as nothing more than MLM.. so to an Amway meeting or herblelife its all the same.

    REmember the guys who do the first dog and pony show are actors they are not investors.

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  • Mark Freeman
    Real Estate Investor · Clovis, CA · Member since 2014 · 195 posts · 194 votes
    11y

    @James Wise  I can't believe Armando didn't make it to the event so he could help rip off those desperate people. Using other people to do his dirty work! Nice reporting on those jokers!

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @James Wise 

      I guess those that attended the seminar got what they paid for.. Free event and free advice.. much like what you get on BP... some BP advice is good some is not so good and some is down right dangerous. nothing different really.

    Not defending these guys by any means.. I did find it interesting though the folks I talked to in Chicago this week who have done so well with the Guru they choose.

    Again I just look at this as nothing more than MLM.. so to an Amway meeting or herblelife its all the same.

    REmember the guys who do the first dog and pony show are actors they are not investors.

     All very valid points.

    0Reply
  • Bob E.
    Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Jay Hinrichs  what mentors did people find worthwhile?

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    send you a PM...

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    James, just read page 1, your guru probably won't be there, a cutout cardboard might be.

    Edited: I see the party is over, as I thought. but here's my thought;

    I went to one last year, posted about it. It's a financing deal basically, they fund your deals, give you the training to borrow from them and pump sales in their circle basically. They made it sound like they were a business partner, turns out, it's a brokerage operation.

    When I saw HWPG, wasn't sure what that was, thought it might be Highway Patrol Georgia, going undercover, LOL.

    My post may be really late, I haven't seen page 5, but good luck.

    0Reply
  • Tom Keith
    Investor · Longview, TX · Member since 2012 · 631 posts · 186 votes
    11y

    @James Wise I think that this exercise you are attempting is totally wasted on the active, seasoned BP member as they have been down the road and worked hard to find their niche and make it work for them. They don't need the report from this weekend, they know it. I for one would never give my money to have someone use it for a new watch or bigger house or whatever. But, there will be newbies, researchers and people desiring to learn who might find this report and see it for what it is worth. There are way too many TV evangelist out there wanting your money for Nothing. So go, have fun and report for the future in the REI. Hold on to Your Checkbook.

    3Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Tom Keith 

      Nice post.. I agreed that this was old news... but it looked like they had fun.

    But how do you knock a guy in America who makes 5 million plus net a year.. I think many folks would love to trade place's with him... :)  they just don't want to admit it :)

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  • Troy Fisher
    Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
    11y

    Man, wish I'd seen this one before the event... I would've given you some good advice on how to stir up the pot. Like @Bill Gulley did when he went to one too.  I do at times find value in attending these seminars.  I don't go often, but when I do, a handful of business cards and a list of pointed questions.

    Here's a snippet from my review of the two-day free seminar I attended regarding C3PS system that Dave Lindahl pitches:

    Again, I don’t mind being upsold at a free seminar, and in fact I didn’t expect to learn anything of relevance, my plan was to meet some other investors who aren’t on the LV REI club circuit, and maybe even someone who might be interested in our Portfolio. But eBay reselling programs? You’ve got be kidding me. I used to have a lot of Respect for the Lindhal program because the books were well written, and had some good information in them. In fact his books were some of the ones that got me truly rolling down my path to real estate wealth.

    For you the power would have been to have a couple of your turnkey partnership deals ready to hand out.  Want to get involved in Real Estate?  Want to learn the real deal?  Here's a couple of deals I'm looking for a partner with...

    1Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @James Wise 

      I guess those that attended the seminar got what they paid for.. Free event and free advice.. much like what you get on BP... some BP advice is good some is not so good and some is down right dangerous. nothing different really.

    ...

    True Jay, but here on BP at least the posts are made available where any member can point out flaws or criticize posts that are crap. And we can even get rid of the joe gores :) 

    That won't happen at a guru event. 

    3Reply
  • Troy Fisher
    Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
    11y

    ... oh also, one day driving around Vegas I saw one of these bus tours, unfortunately I was on my way to the 9-5 or I would've stopped and handed out business cards and tried to interject myself into the tour.

    1Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    ...

    When I saw HWPG, wasn't sure what that was, thought it might be Highway Patrol Georgia, going undercover, LOL.

    ...

    HWPG are the initials of the company that @James Wise works at. 

    EDIT: you can see it in his signature area or profile. 

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Troy Fisher:

    For you the power would have been to have a couple of your turnkey partnership deals ready to hand out.  Want to get involved in Real Estate?  Want to learn the real deal?  Here's a couple of deals I'm looking for a partner with...

    Well said Troy.

    We were actually planning on doing just that, but by the end of the seminar we had decided against it.

    Wouldn't be an effective use of our time to "De-program" an attendee & teach them the real way it works. By the end of the seminar they believe they are getting steaks for free & we don't have time to explain that they will really be getting bologna sandwiches and paying good money for them.

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Troy Fisher 

     I have been on an Armando bus and many other turn key providers bus tours.. you should try it some time its fun.  and you get to talk with folks.. some are like a deer in the headlights others take the info and dominate their little markets some where in the mid west. it certainly is not one size fits all.  Of course I did not pay for it I was an invited guest in each tour...

    And for us old school guys  were in our day if you wanted to get into RE you got your RE license and went to work and worked yourself up the food chain.. the whole reason this education industry exists is Americas fascination with they want it all now syndrome.

    I mean look at turn key industry they take uneducated buyers and put them into properties for far more than they are worth.. does that make them a guru just making money a different way.. Or for me when I build a new home and make 50k on it.. Is that to much profit or should I have sold it for less.. Or the fact that a buyer could have done it themselves.

    Its all personal choice's.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    Yes @Steve Babiak , I saw that after I got to the thread. :)

    It took 8 minutes to get here from the time I hit my mentions, Biggerpockets.com is not responding due to a long running script.....it's getting worse whatever it is, way too much time killed trying to navigate the site.......see ya later :) 

    1Reply
  • Troy Fisher
    Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Troy Fisher:

    For you the power would have been to have a couple of your turnkey partnership deals ready to hand out.  Want to get involved in Real Estate?  Want to learn the real deal?  Here's a couple of deals I'm looking for a partner with...

    Well said Troy.

    We were actually planning on doing just that, but by the end of the seminar we had decided against it.

    Wouldn't be an effective use of our time to "De-program" an attendee & teach them the real way it works. By the end of the seminar they believe they are getting steaks for free & we don't have time to explain that they will really be getting bologna sandwiches and paying good money for them.

    I found in my attendance that you can usually look around and see the people who are skeptical of the situation and already have an understanding of how REI works, they just don't know how to pull the trigger. I've actually met some pretty sophisticated investors at some of those things.

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  • Troy Fisher
    Specialist · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 817 votes
    11y

    @Jay Hinrichs 

    Wait a second! I can get it all right now without too much work? Quick take my money! I have started to tell people that I meet in REI that those big shots who are doing a lot of deals and transacting in real estate have their own brokerage and offices that take care of a lot of the work. It's gotten me to change my mind about the way I am working in real estate, and am pursuing the from the ground-up philosophy to grow it into a business instead of a retirement vehicle. I appreciate you old guys telling us kids the truth. You and @Bill Gulley beating us up about working the inside track!

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