HWPG is going undercover at a Guru seminar

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Joel OwensBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

11y

These seminars at their basic form have nothing really to do with real estate even though that is being discussed.

Statistically all these companies know most people in the world do not have a pot to p*ss in. They also know that most have jobs or a way to charge that 1,499 and pay the CC companies over 2,000 to remain poor and get in the hole further.

So the first phase is milking the masses for the small nut. The second phase is digging in on a personal level to the smaller group who has access to more cash. As the groups go smaller the cash outlay gets bigger with commitment to increase the return.

I am sure if someone has enough money the actual people themselves will meet them or talk to them on the phone which equates to a paid appearance or contact.

Another reason these seminars are done is CONTACTS. Contacts to sell systems to and also to create an army of ants to find deals. If someone is broke because they bought a 1,499 system and just by dumb luck finds a great deal then the promoter might be interested in buying the property and throwing them a small bone. So they let the ants do the heavy lifting and grunt work to find the deal while they are on the beach somewhere watching the waves roll in.

I do not know anything about this particular promoter and I am just speaking in general.

I did see on Facebook tons of these in Atlanta. This one, Than, 2 guys, flipping Vegas, etc.

Then there are 70 replies on Facebook by suckers getting all hyped about going to the event. They were not plants either these are real people getting amped up about this is the answer to make them rich. The promoters sell the belief and play on these peoples hopes and dreams.

Just meet someone local. I feel for people that fall for this stuff. The promoters of course will usually say we just give them information and if they choose not to do something with it then it is their fault.

To some point that is true. I have experienced that when I used to have agents at my brokerage. They want the checks but want to skip the steps and smart work to get them.

So I have learned to be paid for my time whether someone does the steps or not. Otherwise I spending all this time on someone who might waste my time and actually cost me money where I could be doing deals etc.

When you force someone to put skin in the game they have something to lose. It doesn't mean 100% they will follow through but it sure ups the chances they will put forth some actual effort.

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Richard C.

Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @James Wise:

I'm totally stealing this line.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with a bologna sandwich if that is what your means allow, and you should expect to pay for it.

Best real estate advice I could give: It's about singles and doubles, not always home runs.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

I did see on Facebook tons of these in Atlanta. This one, Than, 2 guys, flipping Vegas, etc.

The flipping Vegas guy has a road show?

At least Armando was charismatic in his show. The flipping Vegas guy is the worst.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Richard C.:

Originally posted by @James Wise:

I'm totally stealing this line.

Thanks Rich, I gave myself a pat on the back for coming up with that one : )

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

@Tom Keith

well said sir, thanks for reading.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

@Bill Gulley can help me out with a link to that forum. Steve is the BP forum link finding ~~GURU e~~xpert.

Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @James Wise:

@Bill Gulley can help me out with a link to that forum. Steve is the BP forum link finding ~~GURU e~~xpert.

Bill went to a Scott Yancey event, and the thread has since been removed. I tried to find it recently, and when the search fails ...

David Begley

Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 299 votes

11y

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

I did see on Facebook tons of these in Atlanta. This one, Than, 2 guys, flipping Vegas, etc.

The flipping Vegas guy has a road show?

At least Armando was charismatic in his show. The flipping Vegas guy is the worst.

The flipping Vegas guy sends me into a rage! At least his wife is... oh never mind! I don't mind the gurus/snake oil salesman nearly as much as I detest the aftermath of those seminars in Atlanta. They'll draw tens of thousands of people over a few weeks and invariably a few weeks after that I'll start getting emails and phone calls from newbie wholesalers with ridiculous offers of abandoned houses, pie-in-the-sky ARVs, along with extremely low rehab estimates. (For some reason, Texas seems to produce more than their share of these "wholesalers" too.) After they get disillusioned, many show up on BP and hopefully are de-programmed! We've all seen them - "Hi, I'm X from Atlanta, a newbie Investor, can someone please point me to the link that will take me to the list of cash investors?" lol Very entertaining thread!

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

11y

Biggerpockets.com is not responding, this has been going on for several days now, can't scroll down, takes minutes to get to any page, taken over an hour to get to my mentions and can't read them all, so excuse if I missed one. :)

I understand the freedom of speech stuff, the right to conduct business and commerce, but you can't yell "fire" in a theater and business is regulated for the public good.

Too bad it's not a felony to conduct RE education without a license that requires tested knowledge and qualifications of those presenting anything as educational materials or methods of conducting business. I wonder why a butcher at the meat counter can't write a book on how to conduct brain surgery in this country, I think it has something to do with the American Medical Association.

The bar to entry in the education business is waaaaay too low, it is also to be active in conducting any RE business too, IMO. I don't like government oversight (surprise!) but it's too bad that it is necessary. I don't care for ignorance and greed governing the pursuit of commerce in things that are required in society, food, shelter, medical care, education, etc., no this isn't a political statement but more to social requirements.

Joel pretty much hit it on the head, as well as others, gurus are scammers for the most part. Preying on those with few resources, money, education, maturity in business playing on emotional strings of giving false hope and implying they have secrets to make them wealthy is about the lowest scam one can pull, only thing worse is selling sugar pills to cure a serious illness and letting people die.

Hard to fight this stuff, I'm doing my best as I see it. :)

3 Reply

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

@David Begley I know the feeling. I get constant emails from guys trying to sell me a hot deal for 40k, usually needs about 20k in work. Im assured it has an ARV of 65k. Its odd that the ARV is 65k when I already own houses on said street & know the ARV to be about 40k.

Tom Ziebro

Investor · Eldersburg, MD · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 22 votes

11y

@James Wise, as sad as it is to hear of people getting ripped off, your play by play made me smile...a lot! Do you think they offer training on how to "speak fast and speak the speed of money?" That sounds a whole lot more profitable than the real estate portion!

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

@Tom Ziebro

thanks Tom glad you liked it.

It was a very fun experience, as this was my first taste of a GURU education. I never read any of the popular books about RE so the theatrics & pie in the sky ideas they were talking about was new to me.

Cassandra Truax

Involved In Real Estate · Fair Oaks Ranch, TX · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 23 votes

11y

Great post and very well written.

The really despicable part to me is the borrowing money to pay for the seminar. You can't pay someone to solve your money problems for you - it requires personal growth on your part to solve them.

I know this because I have been struggling to grow out of a pattern I've been living my whole life.

It seems like a very American concept to be able to buy your way into or out of anything - and it's simply not true.

Thanks for passing that particular message through a different filter and shedding some light on predatory practice.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

@Cassandra Truax

thanks for reading.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

Just saw an Ad. The Flipping Boston guys are coming to Cleveland Jan 28th.

HWPG undercover 2?

Farel Zamor

Realtor · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 6 votes

11y

that sounds all about right! the Seminar I went to we didn't learn nothing, but obvious things most investors if not all investors already know. absolute waste of time.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

11y

Originally posted by @Farel Zamor:

that sounds all about right! the Seminar I went to we didn't learn nothing, but obvious things most investors if not all investors already know. absolute waste of time.

Yes, stick with sites like this & learn from others around you who are already doing what you want to be doing & you will do just fine.

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Robert AdamsBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Henderson, NV · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 373 votes

11y

Great thread @James Wise more info people have on these self proclaimed gurus the better.

I don't know how they sleep at night ripping people off like that. Takes all kinds I guess.

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Adam McCarty

Investor · Indianola, IA · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 10 votes

11y

@james wise

I really liked your post. I went to one of these things about a month or more ago. I almost got sucked in by it but after I had signed up for the 3 day I went online and googled it. I found all the negative reports so I canceled the contract the next day and stopped payment. The good thing is that I still got to listen to the tapes which did get me excited about learning more and to take my next step in investing which lead me to finding bp. I have now attended a get together with other bp members and am looking for my first real flip. I had already bought and am doing a live in flip before attending the seminar. So even though the seminar is a scam it still motivated me to take the next steps that I had been wanting to do for years but was letting my wife hold me back.

Mil SanghviPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 57 posts · 10 votes

11y

@James Wise You're wasting your time if you are going to the AM seminar with the mindset of an undercover operation. If you actually want to learn, to go one of the Rich Dad Education's free seminar's and sign up for the 3 day training for 299. That's only 150 a person and DO NOT sign up for anything else. People spend that much over a couple of dinner and drinks.

Read books, Network, ask questions and dive right in. You'll be ok.

Adam Heim

Banker · Portsmouth, OH · Member since 2014 · 14 posts · 5 votes

10y

This is Hilarious I cant wait to hear the outcome! Thanks for the always entertaining posts @James Wise.

OP

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

10y

Originally posted by @Adam Heim:

This is Hilarious I cant wait to hear the outcome! Thanks for the always entertaining posts @James Wise.

Glad you liked it Adam.

We never made it out to the Flipping Boston event but we did make it out to a Flip or Flop event.

Article about the Flip or Flop event below.

Flip or Flop or Scam?

Larry Vestall

Flipper · Aledo, TX · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 2 votes

9y

Exact same thing happened to us but it wasn't Armando's program it was the BIG DOG program, first the free meeting, than the 1000 weekend seminary, where we were taught if you want to know more and be in with the BIG DOGS, it will only cost you $35,000.00 Yes, we walked and actually got a refund for our $1000 after I wanted to expose them for being the FRAUDS that they are, what a waist of my time, and NOW I'm also slipped into another guru, and that is the Clever Investor, Cody Sperber, Don't get me wrong, I do love his videos, they provide detail info, but I strictly got his 297 program for one reason only and that was for the direct mail, and his automation system. Nothing mORE, no I don't need a 14K mentor, I have a broker that works with us closely who doesn't ask for money and is an investor as well. WHY can't anymore just be honest in this business and not try to beat around the bush as to their true agenda, it would keep me from wasting alot of my time, I was not born yesterday, and I can tell a sales call a mile away, its the questions they ask, these people are all the same, and their material to educate with is all the same, Sheez

Catherine Coy

Lender · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2008 · 154 posts · 30 votes

9y

Adam McCarty wrote: I found all the negative reports so I canceled the contract the next day and stopped payment. The good thing is that I still got to listen to the tapes.

Your actions are not ethical.