Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
Controversial TV flipper & Real estate Guru Armando Montelongo is coming to my town next month. I don't have much knowledge of him other then what I have read online & seen of his show. His show was pretty entertaining. I did enjoy watching it.
What I have taken away from online reviews is that he, like many other guru's brings attendees into their shows promising riches only to pull the bait and switch and get them on the hook for much higher packages using high pressure sales tactics.
From what I have gathered Armando's seminar program works like this
1. Attendees go to a free seminar which is used to sell a 3 day seminar for about $1,500
2. Attendees go to the 3 day $1,500 seminar is used to rope them into the $40,000 VIP Bus tour
Here are some links to the information I have found on Armando & his seminars. The reviews that I have seen have been pretty negative.
My business partner John Holton, myself & a couple of our employees will be going "undercover" & attending one of the free seminars next month.
We would like to accomplish a few things while we are there.
1. Satisfy our curiosity.
2. Give newbie Biggerpockets investors who may be considering a seminar like this the opportunity to learn exactly what a seminar like this is about.
3. Learn something? (who knows, maybe the bad reviews are false)
I will be continuing to blog about the entire experience here on bigger pockets. I will be objective and will not leave anything out. The good, the bad & the ugly.
So investors, partners, colleagues, strangers & newbies.
Is there anything that you would like HWPG to ask Armando & his team?
Any rumors that you have heard that you would like us to attempt to get to the bottom of?
Any question that is posed on this forum we will do our best to present them to the salesman & women at the seminar.
P.S.
I would like to note that I am not against the education side of this business. There is a lot of value in education and a lot of money to be made providing this education. ($40,000 is of course extreme & I don't see how it could possibly benefit a new investor.) This site is an education site. There are many members on this site who are educators and seem to have great reputations. I would not shut the door on possibly doing something myself in the Real Estate education arena one day.
Full Time Rehabber · Covina, CA · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 22 votes
11y
This should be interesting. I personally know people that have attended and felt the whole thing was a sales pitch to lead them into buying the next seminar.
Each and everyone of them felt it was a ripoff and a waste of time (for the most part). And I don't think I've come across a person that has gone onto have a great career in investing after they attend.
I've also had other lunch/coffee meetings with multiple people that want to learn the basics of the biz after they have attended the free and weekend seminars and I was told they learned more from a 1 hour meeting with me, then they did in an entire weekend from this or other similar seminars.
I always tell them the same thing. Hands on training from a local active investor is the best, always. Attend a local REI. Read BP forums for tons of info that is free and lastly seminar gurus are ONLY in it for 1 thing, MONEY.
Like someone stated in another post. The only seminar I'd pay for is specific marketing techniques in my local market.
I have been to Armando's free seminar and quite a few of the others. (Sometimes I get this weird desire to sit in a room full of people that are so eager to do what I'm already doing). It's kind of motivational in a way. I have never seen the actual Guru at one of these things, even the one time I paid for an upgrade to the thee day event.
The last one I went to, not Armando's, had a guy talking about different deals that had been done, including a house that was bought at a tax sale for about $1,500 (not by the presenter or the Guru). They had a picture on the overhead of a decent looking little house and thought that they were pretty great. (I.E. this can be done!) I just sat there thinking I would love to hear from the guy/gal actually doing the deals and not a bunch of stories about deals other people have done!! I can't remember him mentioning even one of his own deals! It seemed like I had way more experience than the presenter because I could get up there and talk about my own deals - not deals done by someone else!
Mark you are not suppose to be in a room and be the smartest person...
Guru is only at the 3 or 4 day events.. all other events are set ups and up sells.
or some have in depth 3 day seminars depends on the outfit.
remember these are going on simultaneously throughout the country.. with the goal to funnel 300 to 400 people to one event in LA or TX... at least ARmando's deals.
this I why James and his crew going to the event in Cleveland is a waste of time. and they will see that and probably leave before the speaker gets done showing slides of his family on their vacation and kids that may or may not be there's etc etc. The speakers at the first events are mainly actors from LA so keep that in mind as well. And they are good actors.
Real Estate Investor · Clovis, CA · Member since 2014 · 195 posts · 194 votes
11y
@Jay Hinrichs Absolutely correct! Hence my guarantee that Armando will not be there! Remember James and company are going to the free event. I don't think Armando would be caught dead at a free event even if it was in LA or Texas!! He has to wait to get all of those up sells out of the way first!
Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
One of my investors almost got herself roped into the Armando thing years ago before learning that partnering was a better course. I convinced her to Google Armando and up popped 2 - 3 pages of complaints and litigation. She decided it wouldn't be the best use of her time or money. I suspect Armando and those Guru's like him are a part of the reason our state is seeing more and more regulations pushed on investors.
Guru is only at the 3 or 4 day events.. all other events are set ups and up sells.
or some have in depth 3 day seminars depends on the outfit.
remember these are going on simultaneously throughout the country.. with the goal to funnel 300 to 400 people to one event in LA or TX... at least ARmando's deals.
this I why James and his crew going to the event in Cleveland is a waste of time. and they will see that and probably leave before the speaker gets done showing slides of his family on their vacation and kids that may or may not be there's etc etc. The speakers at the first events are mainly actors from LA so keep that in mind as well. And they are good actors.
I'll need to stay until the end to buy the $40,000 VIP ticket since I'll have raised that money from the fine folks at BP by then. : )
have to go to the next upsell to get offered the 40k bus tour and vip package you won't get it at the first one. I guess you can make a special request though
have to go to the next upsell to get offered the 40k bus tour and vip package you won't get it at the first one. I guess you can make a special request though
I dunno Jay, I know you've met him & I haven't but I have a hunch they would not turn down my $40,000.
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
11y
No Armando was not there.
Yes Armando's seminar is full of lies and terrible advice.
Yes the crowd ate it up.
Play-by-Play P1
The seminar was held at a local hotel. We arrived a few minutes after the scheduled start time. Outside the conference room everyone walks up to the desk and they take your tickets & give you a name tag. They then register any guests you may have brought with you. (registering means they get your name & phone # for cold calls) As we walk in to grab our seats A slick talking salesman (who kind of looks like Armando) was already talking about Armando's back story & how he was broke living in a garage with his young family.
Real eye watering stuff.
Armando frustrated with his misfortunes goes out & approaches investors offering free work in exchange for mentorship. Armando finds 4 mentors who agree to mentor him.
Conveniently, each of the 4 mentors had 1 special skill.
1 was good at finding the deals.
1 was good at funding the deals.
1 was good at rehabbing the deals.
1 was good at selling the deals.
After Armando learned the business from his 4 mentors he moved his family out of the garage to San Antonio with only $1,000 to his name.
Now in San Antonio with only $1,000 to his name Armando buys 3 things.
A pre-paid cellphone.
Business cards from Vista Print.
A briefcase.
Armed with these 3 items & the skills from his 4 mentors Armando finds a great deal. He then writes the seller a $2,500 E.M. check to tie the deal up.
(Where did Armando get that $2,500? He only had $1,000 to his name & he bought those 3 things? I imagine his wife & kids also wanted things like a roof & food?)
But nobody in the audience is allowed to slow down the presentation & ask questions. Our speaker informed us "He speaks fast, He speaks the speed of money"
Long story short Armando wholesales this deal to another buyer who apparently only asked Armando 1 question when Armando presented him the deal.
"Which title company do you want to use?"
So the guy continues about how Armando churns & burns these deals until he becomes a millionaire. After Armando becomes rich that's when A&E discovers him & he starts his show.
According to the seminar Armando's show is still the #1 flipping show today.
(I have not seen the show in years?)
Armando has actually made more money from his show then all the other shows combined. (Property brothers, Nicole Curtis, Flip/Flop folks etc)
At this point slides of successful students & their stories go up on the screen then they start hammering in about the 3 day seminar.
Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 47 votes
11y
All of the TV flippers have been coming through Richmond Va. I actually attended one a couple of years ago and yes it is pretty worthless and no none of the TV "stars" as Than Merrill calls his self in the commercials is there.
But if you can attend and not get sucked up into the hype who knows you may pick up a pointer or two. Or you could take the same amount of time and get lots of pointers right here on Bigger Pockets!
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
11y
Play-by-Play P2
The speaker now goes into the benefits of attending the 3 day seminar.
In the 3 day seminar students will learn Armando's patented "Rule of 65"
(This means don't buy a house for more then 65% of the ARV. Armando apparently has patented this strategy)
He goes on to explain how students will learn how to wholesale. According to Armando wholesaling is incredibly easy. I guess there are 5-10 Realtors just waiting in the wings to send out offer after offer on our behalf. The fact that we do not have credit or money will not deter the Realtors. They are basically salivating to work with us because we are knowledgeable investors now.
Best thing about learning wholesaling from Armando & his team is that you do not even need to wait for the deal to close. You just find a property, tie it up with your non existent earnest money then send it out to Armando's list of buyers. At that point your phone will ring non stop because all of Armando's Investors will be calling to ask you 1 question. "What title company do you want to use?" After you tell them what title company you want to use they just wire you the spread that day. No waiting for escrow to complete. You just get it that day and move on to the next great deal.
The speaker then goes on to explain that there will be a team of 5 millionaire investors at the 3-day seminar & our city "COLUMBUS OHIO" is one of Armando's top 10 hot spots.(we are in Cleveland, but nobody has the time to correct him. Remember we can not slow him down. "he speaks fast, he speaks the speed of money") As a matter of fact Armando believes that investing in our market will be more profitable in the next 12-18 months then any other time in the next 40 years.
They then go into some more testimonials & some long story about how Armando will teach us how to use leverage.
The leverage story had something to do with us going up to our local bank and getting a loan for 3 million dollars & paying $30,000 a month for debt service while earning $70,000 a month in rental income.
The speaker then tells us about Hard money lenders. Hard money lenders are great because they do not care about your credit or experience, only the deal. They don't even want to know who you are. He is going on & on about HML's like they are angels from heaven sent here to sprinkle money all around. I can't resist the urge to ask a question so I just shout it out.
James "Do we need to put any money into the deal?"
Speaker "No, none"
James "Nothing at all? they don't want us to do anything?
Speaker "No they put up all of it, no questions asked."
(except for what title company do you want to use?)
He then quickly moves off of me before I can pry any deeper. Remember"He speaks fast, he speaks the speed of money."
We are then shown more testimonials & one testimonial in particular about a blind guy who became rich after meeting Armando. Apparently it's so easy we do not need any of the following to become rich investing in real estate.
Experience
Money
Credit
Eye Sight
After that we are taught about all the things that smell like money.
Mold smells like money
Asbestos smells like money
Old paint smells like money
Dirty houses smell like money
Now that we have gone over all the things that smell of money it is time for us to sign up for the 3-day seminar. But first he wants us to know about Armando's two guarantees. We actually get a guarantee certificate it looks like a diploma.
90-day guarantee
If we do a deal in 90 days of completion of Armando's 3-day & give a testimonial he will refund the purchase price of the 3-day seminar.
6-month guarantee
If you can not earn 3x more then what you paid for the 3-day seminar within 6 months of completion of said seminar Armando will write you a check for what you paid for the seminar.
At this point he asks everyone who wants to make something of themselves stand up. Anyone not standing is asked "you don't want to make money?" so then everyone stands up and is ushered to the back to sign up for the 3-day seminar.
There was a total of about 75 people at this seminar. I don't know how many actually ended up paying for the 3-day class but about 30 or so went to the back to register.
It's pretty easy to see why the Guru seminars are so profitable.
Many people in the class appeared to be desperate to get out of their financial troubles. They prey on the hopes, dreams & fears of the under skilled & uneducated. They lie & twist the facts about how the industry works. The way the classes are taught people are led to believe that $1,497 is the only thing in their way to become a millionaire.
Armando's team appears to have 1 & only 1 objective. To take payment from as many people as possible & they are willing to use any means necessary to complete that objective.
Rental Property Investor · Arlington, TX · Member since 2012 · 788 posts · 640 votes
11y
Great play by play. Can't imagine me writing everything down while they are speaking at the speed of money, lol. It is sad/unfortunate that so many get taken by these gurus and I'm sure many have to borrow money for just the 3 day seminar.
We all just need to spread BP and help educate those less educated.
Great play by play. Can't imagine me writing everything down while they are speaking at the speed of money, lol. It is sad/unfortunate that so many get taken by these gurus and I'm sure many have to borrow money for just the 3 day seminar.
We all just need to spread BP and help educate those less educated.
Yea that's exactly what happens actually. We were listening in to some of the hard closes at the registration tables. The entire pitch was predicated on
"If you are not willing to borrow the money to change your life then I cannot help you"
One woman was almost in tears begging the salesman to borrow the money.
After that we are taught about all the things that smell like money.
Mold smells like money
Asbestos smells like money
Old paint smells like money
Dirty houses smell like money
Having dealt with all four and written cheques for remediation, abatement, trim restoration and endless dumpsters, I would agree they smell like money ... my money ;-)
