finding motivated sellers
Wholesaler · Atwater, CA · Member since 2013 · 161 posts · 27 votes
Just want to see if anyone has heard of hiddenmotivatedsellers.com
by Chris Richter in Seattle
I spend a lot of driving around and filtering through records to find motived sellers of free and clear homes. Even with birddogs, its a lot of work. So I figured to give this call one hour of time. This program/system has a 30 day money back guarantee and is a software program that allows you to find vacant homes, free and clear, with owner address, phone numbers and many other things in any county or state without ever needing to hire a bird dog or leave your home. You can even send letters out right then and there without stuffing envelopes! At the end of the call the (of course) "all for $995 this time only, and never again" line comes out. So has anyone heard of this?
I NEVER believe a software program can find Vacant homes. Free and clear yes.
It is a lot of work but we all know the payoff is worth it.
Here is a tip I got from a friend. He goes down to his local water dept and over time made friends with the ladies who work there. (yes he is local and a seasoned investor who has lots of reasons to be in the town hall) He asked if they could produce a list of homes that were only charged the minimum water charge. Not only does he learn the homes maybe vacant but also the correct mailing address for the person paying the bill.
I don't think walking in off the street and just asking for the list will get it for you my point is real estate is local and it takes boots on the ground to find the deals. Yes we can do tons of research from home but we still need to get out there.
My opinion of these software packages is that they are directed at people who want it to be easy. The business is simple but not easy. It takes work.
My advice I would buy a list from listsource.com and do a mailing or spend it on Bandit signs or an ad in your local paper instead of sending them 995.
By the way I have fallen for a lot of the crap out there.
I NEVER believe a software program can find Vacant homes. Free and clear yes.
It is a lot of work but we all know the payoff is worth it.
Here is a tip I got from a friend. He goes down to his local water dept and over time made friends with the ladies who work there. (yes he is local and a seasoned investor who has lots of reasons to be in the town hall) He asked if they could produce a list of homes that were only charged the minimum water charge. Not only does he learn the homes maybe vacant but also the correct mailing address for the person paying the bill.
I don't think walking in off the street and just asking for the list will get it for you my point is real estate is local and it takes boots on the ground to find the deals. Yes we can do tons of research from home but we still need to get out there.
My opinion of these software packages is that they are directed at people who want it to be easy. The business is simple but not easy. It takes work.
My advice I would buy a list from listsource.com and do a mailing or spend it on Bandit signs or an ad in your local paper instead of sending them 995.
By the way I have fallen for a lot of the crap out there.
We bought this (FindMotivatedSellersNow) to evaluate it. I'm going to pull about 5,000 records in one of our markets and do a mailing to test the list quality & response rate. From another post on this topic I heard there were quite a few returns or bad addresses - we'll see.
Chris is a sharp guy but I don't think there are any magic beans here. Just some clever cross-referencing of data to identify LIKELY vacants. While not magic, it is a novel approach.
And consider this. Yes, ListSource.com is good data and we use it to mail to absentees with high equity. But those are expensive records - you can pay up to .18 per record if you use their equity% filter. So if you pull a list of 5,000 records on ListSource using those criteria, you can pay $900 for that one list. So paying a one-time $995 for access to this type of data could be a good deal. Really will depend on list quality and response rate.
They claim to update their data every 14 days. Their search functionality is very rudimentary, but may be appropriate for the level of most users. You basically have these filters:
You can either use their mailing service, which is legit, or just pull the list and mail to it yourself. You are limited to pulling 12,000 records per month.
So, the jury is out until we see the results, but as to whether Chris and Kent are snake-oil salesmen? I don't think so. They are taking a different approach to try to give people some advantage and I respect that.
Hey@Dev Horn ,
Are these two different systems doing the same thing, or one system with two different names? The OP mentioned "hiddenmotivatedsellers.com by Chris Richter in Seattle" Is this the same as the Clothier's System, "FindMotivatedSellersNow" that you purchased and are testing?
Its a redirected URL and If you click on contact us it takes you to
www.findcashbuyersnow.com
Hey@Dev Horn ,
Are these two different systems doing the same thing, or one system with two different names? The OP mentioned "hiddenmotivatedsellers.com by Chris Richter in Seattle" Is this the same as the Clothier's System, "FindMotivatedSellersNow" that you purchased and are testing?
@Jerry Puckett Yes, that is correct. I don't know about the "Hidden" name, but Kent & Chris just launched FindMotivatedSellersNow this week with a webinar/sales pitch:
http://webinar.findmotivatedsellersnow.com/
The pitch is that their system identifies VACANTS, and vacants are more likely to be motivated & distressed. So, I believe we're talking about exactly the same thing.
Thanks for the response on this...I guess I'll just wait and see what kind of results come out. I did notice in a Google search there is also "find cash buyers " and "find private lenders" also by Chris and Kent. So is that yet another $995 to get a list of cash buyers and financiers respectfully? Please send me a PM if you don't mind once results are posted.
I am also very curious to see how this works out. I agree with the fact that RE investing takes work, no matter what you do. However, if it works out, and is not some Guru selling their toys, then it may be a good resource to invest in.
On that same note, finding vacant or motivated sellers is just one step, so it really couldn't be sold as a "get rich quick" which we all know does not exist in RE. Sounds like it would be a great alternative to driving for dollars. Especially here in Oregon where it rains 9 months out of the year and a large majority of the properties that are overgrown and look distressed...are actually just very "earthy" people that like it that way. haha.
I am watching for you results, keep us posted @Arcinio Arauz
I don't think you need to pay for a list of cash buyers. Its public record as well. Find a realtor to pull up the sold listings in a certain area, then filter the search to cash terms. That's how I found my investor who I work with today. This information is good when you want to know who the big players are. Another good tip, go to the auction sales. In my county its 11am everyday. I knew who was who before they even knew my name!
Yes, in one test in Arlington TX I mailed an "absentee owner" postcard to 274 of these FMSN leads. Got my seed card on 9/6. Got 2 calls:
1) Duplex - currently rented (not vacant) but could be a good deal. Seeing it this coming Saturday. Seller is motivated because they are moving soon and don't want to manage remotely.
2) Condo - currently rented (not vacant, not distressed). ARV is $82K and they owe $75K so there is no room in that deal - i.e., it was not "high equity/free & clear" as the data was supposed to be.
As this is a 1-time mailing, we don't know the efficacy of the list over a 3 to 6 mailing campaign, but at least we got a couple of leads from the initial mailing.
This seems to be basically just absentee owner records. I don't see any evidence that they have isolated "vacant" properties...
P.S. We also mailed to 419 FMSN leads in Riverside CA, but we had also mailed thousands of absentees via Listsource, so unfortunately I could not isolate leads that might have some from the 419 FMSN records...
Dev - thanks for the feedback. Wonder if it was a bad batch?
I'm kind of a cheap skate so I'm not likely to shell out $1K for some system, but I know Chris Ritcher and he is definitely a stand up guy and believes in this system - so if the results aren't great - it's not b/c it's a scam.
I'm also not a big believer in push button systems either - of course they sound great and if someone could invent one that actually worked - we would be all over it. I know these guys had this in mind when they created the system.
I'm an old school "driving for dollars" guy and when I tell people my conversion rates they freak out. Well it's because I actually drove around and actually saw the house with my own eyes and saw that it was vacant.
So if I send 100 letters, I get at least 10-20 calls and 2 solid leads, and usually at least one deal. But yes, I did a little extra work on the front end.
It probably all washes out as even in the end: time vs money...I put in the time. Or you could save time and just buy lists....which I don't do yet.
So if you really have NO time - the FMSN system may not be a bad idea.
Just my $.02
-Matt
Got another call (from the FMSN test) today right after my prior post.
3) Single-family 3/2/2 (not vacant, not distressed) - owner-occupied. In good condition. Wouldn't divulge motivated, but seemed in a hurry and looking for a cash deal. Claims value is $138K and owes approx. $20K. Could be a good one here. Appointment set to view on Saturday.
I only use letters for probate. My general concerns with letters are: a) they are too expensive to produce and mail, b) they encourage investors to say too much up front which, c) dilutes the motivated seller message. I don't care about call counts. I could send a letter that would generate a crapload of calls. Who has time for that? My message is very tight on the magic triad - 1) Want to sell fast? 2) House needs repairs? 3) Need CASH? (+ we only target high equity prospects). With that very tight messaging and targeting, the leads we get are almost always motivated and pretty easily converted to deals if we want them.
SUMMARY
First mailing to 274 FINDMotivatedSellersNOW leads (no way it's a "bad batch" - it was 100% of the "free & clear/high equity" / "vacant" listings in my 3 zip code area). I've gotten 3 calls from motivated sellers with 3 very different types of properties; 2 of them are high-equity, none of them is vacant. 2 have renters and 1 is owner occupied.
So the "vacant" thing is not ringing true in my test. but the phone rang with 1 very good lead (SFR, high equity), 1 OK lead (duplex with renters), and 1 that was not viable (condo with low equity).
Due to the small sample size and single mailing (plus my very dialed-in messaging), it's difficult to say whether their service is a "great" deal, but the data seems like a decent list (although I really only want SFRs, so that's another consideration).
But hey I have two viable appointments this Saturday from mailing 274 postcards 1 time. That doesn't suck.
If I get a couple more calls from this test run, I'll probably hit this list again next month. So..... right now I give it a B.
@Dev Horn Awesome review, thanks for keeping us updated with honest answers Dev I think we all really appreciate it.
I just wanted to chime in and offer a review to find motivated sellers now as well. One of my colleagues / friends purchased it. He pulled a list of 100 vacant properties with high equity in Arlington and 100 vacant properties in fort worth. Over the period of about a month, he drove each of the properties on the list, over 200 properties.
I don't remember the exact figure, but very few % wise even appeared vacant. For as much as this program costs ($1,000) it seems your money would be much better spent just mailing high equity absentee owners in or out of state.
To that point, @Bill Mitchell , I also provided test data samples to some of my licensees in other markets including San Diego and Shreveport/Bossier City. Both drove to a number of houses on the list and saw very few that appeared "vacant".
Again, non-scientific/annecdotal evidence, so take it with a grain of salt.
Moral to the story may be, identifying truly vacant houses is not easy. But is vacant really all that important?
One of our licensees ordered this. Fifty percent of their cards were returned for bad addresses, they checked out many of the other properties and they were NOT vacant. They did get 2 calls but no deals. Not motivated sellers, getting good cash flow and no interest in selling.
If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
There are better ways to get a list of vacant houses. Get a list of properties which have code violations so bad that the certificate of occupancy has been pulled ( no one can live in it)
Get a list of dead meters from the electric company. They pull the meters if they bill is not paid for 3 to 4 months.
Hello JL
I have heard of both of your suggestion before BUT never been able to get the lists.Our local power company [PGE] says the do not offer such a list nor does the bldg dept re code violations. Can you share how you find such lists? Please!
F. Foster,
TXU in our area will give you a list of the vacant homes that had power turn off in the pass 90 days and not have reconnected and the gas company will give you the list also.
Joe Gore
I just go in to ask for the list.
You can't get it with a phone call or by email. Don't waste your time calling because they will just tell you they don't have it.
You absolutely have to go in to the office to get these lists.
Again, non-scientific/annecdotal evidence, so take it with a grain of salt.
Moral to the story may be, identifying truly vacant houses is not easy. But is vacant really all that important?
That's kind of the point though. If the product does not perform as advertised why bother paying for it at all with such a steep cost. You are much better purchasing a high quality list from list source and just using that. I would be satisfied if even 20% of the "vacant houses" were truly vacant, but as this thread shows, its clearly not.
Sounds like they're selling potentially millions of dollars of subscriptions to this thing, which appears to be flat out invalid. Seems ludicrous on the surface that they could figure out vacants with any precision whatsoever. What is the stated premise, or is there one? Seems that only utility usage could even begin to get close, and that information resides with thousands of utility providers around the country.
I'm an old school "driving for dollars" guy and when I tell people my conversion rates they freak out. Well it's because I actually drove around and actually saw the house with my own eyes and saw that it was vacant.
So if I send 100 letters, I get at least 10-20 calls and 2 solid leads, and usually at least one deal. But yes, I did a little extra work on the front end.
My call rate generated from driving for dollars used to be the same. In the beginning all my deals came from DFD. Now the trouble is that easily 90% or more of the vacant/abandoneds that I find in my farms are upside down and/or in foreclosure and/or an REO. I'll come home with 50 addresses and only 5-10 properties are worth mailing to. It's no longer a good use of my time. I really loved driving for dollars. Love to drive, love dollars.
Not that I can't turn an upside down property into a deal, I can and I have. But it's just not the same, working the data on a screen for leads.
TXU in our area will give you a list of the vacant homes that had power turn off in the pass 90 days and not have reconnected and the gas company will give you the list also.
Joe Gore
Hey Joe, thanks for the information. What are some of the common gas companies in the area? We just moved to Mansfield in the last 6 months or so from another state.
@Andrew Malik where did you find this information for NJ Online?