When is it bulls--t?

When is it bulls--t?

Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes

In my local market there recently was a big scandal about someone who was ripping a bunch of investors off. Without going into too much detail, he was a well-known guy in the local community and a lot of the investors who were taken, considered themselves seasoned and experienced. I have never had any dealings with this individual or any of the people who lost money but in today’s day and age once it hits the internet the word gets out there. What I don’t understand is how people didn’t see it coming. I remember the first time I met the guy. I was headed to a meeting and new to the city. Someone I knew well was going with me and said “I want to know what you think of this guy. He’s kind of controversial. Some people like him, some don’t.” After the meeting, the same guy asked me for my thoughts. I remember distinctly telling him that I have met a lot of ------------s in my life. I would keep my distance from him. It never ends well. I could smell the BS rolling off of this guy. I am just surprised that so many ‘seasoned’ investors were taken by him. 


What tell tale signs do you look out for to know when you need to distance yourself?

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Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 14 votes
6y

Personally I just assume everyone is trying to rip me off until they prove otherwise.  Trust but verify. 

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  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    Personally I just assume everyone is trying to rip me off until they prove otherwise.  Trust but verify. 

  • Dawn RoyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2017 · 76 posts · 41 votes
    6y

    Good post.  I think the hard part is when there is someone who has established themselves as an authority AND they are in trusted investor groups....it gives them an air of trustworthiness.  At the end of the day, gut instinct is the best resource we can have.  Plus, good old fashion research.  If something just doesn't feel right...it isn't.

    Open Gate Realty Group546 Reviews
  • Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2019 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Ask for real numbers on any deal.  Most people want to believe rather than know.

    If he makes promises, get something written, even if an eMail, you can save.  Grifters don't like leaving a paper trail.

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    I can remember not too long ago a "nationally known television host" left that industry and opened a turnkey investment company using the significant tailwind of his name recognition to recruit lots of investors.  He even had a podcast that promoted the turnkey investment model and his business in particular.  It did not end well and many people got ripped off as they were blinded by his fame and did not do their due diligence.

    Just goes to show you anyone could be a skunk.

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    A verifiable track record and some skin in the game that's being promoted.

  • Lender · Palm Beach Gardens, FL · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 10 votes
    6y

    Ask for past project addresses.  Public records are easily available in most states. See if the records match up with the claims, for both the ownership and the numbers backing it up. Anybody that has this proof is usually proud to share, and most people that do not have it are at least not being completely truthful in their representations.

  • Chris ClothierBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · memphis, TN · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Just going off of your post, I have always paid attention to the story that I'm being told.  A little humility goes a long way.  Just about every huckster tells of their mistakes and the troubles they went through.  I think that is an admirable quality.  It is what comes after that matters to me.  When someone's story suddenly shifts to "freedom" and includes second homes, quitting jobs, fancy cars, expensive vacations, toys like boats and other luxuries and the next line is that you can have this too..., that is when I know they are full of ...t.  I know plenty of straight up people who have the ability to have all of the above, and yet you would likely never know it.  

    Those to me are the tell tale signs.  They are looking for investors who are after quick fixes, big scores and are willing to ignore the warning signs in hopes of a big payoff. 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Clothier:

    Just going off of your post, I have always paid attention to the story that I'm being told.  A little humility goes a long way.  Just about every huckster tells of their mistakes and the troubles they went through.  I think that is an admirable quality.  It is what comes after that matters to me.  When someone's story suddenly shifts to "freedom" and includes second homes, quitting jobs, fancy cars, expensive vacations, toys like boats and other luxuries and the next line is that you can have this too..., that is when I know they are full of ...t.  I know plenty of straight up people who have the ability to have all of the above, and yet you would likely never know it.  

    Those to me are the tell tale signs.  They are looking for investors who are after quick fixes, big scores and are willing to ignore the warning signs in hopes of a big payoff. 

     ^^^Exactly correct. The scammer or con man always tries to paint an emotional picture. They stroke your ego and tell you what you want to hear. When you ask factual questions, they divert back to emotional topics. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Upstate, NY · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I'm often amazed at the stories detailed on American Greed & the 'smart educated' people who fall for the unbelievable deal of a lifetime. Unfortunately what's worse is seeing a friend get clipped by their own family members & I've seen that happen a few times.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Steve S Sounds like don't trust but verify. :)

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Dawn Roy Lack of properly done research is a problem for sure.  Still sometimes you're like how did they not know.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Steve Morris Grifters......hahaha not a word you hear everyday but probably should be familiar with it.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Wesley W. The famous people are the worst.  People are so star struck they will believe anything.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Darius Ogloza there are so many ways to be careful and verify.  It is just simply that people don't do it.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed all relatively easy things to do but still not being done.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Chris Clothier Yes!  All good signs.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Pat L. Yikes!  A few times?  Must make for some awkward Thanksgivings.

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Account Closed I have never read it.  I will now though!

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    A friend of mine, an assistant U.S. attorney who handled white collar crimes, lamented a while back that prosecution was usually difficult because these guys would issue PPMs that contained disclaimers informing their investors in bold, block letters that they would be ripped off.  Didn't seem to stop anyone from handing over their money.  

  • Investor · Midlothian, VA · Member since 2015 · 305 posts · 199 votes
    6y

    @Darius Ogloza 

    Is that for real? I can only imagine. :)

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    Hi Scott, I'm wondering if you are sharing information on the same person I've posted about here and on multiple FB pages??  If we are I would love to chat as we have a lot of actions going on.  We want to stop this person.  He not only steals money, I know of a suicide attributed to him, and attacks on humanity.    

    My perpetrator is Moe Mathews, Fresh Start Realty.

    Facebook Posts

    REI Blacklist Be Cautious of These People and Companies

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/RealEstateInvestingBlacklist/permalink/3287860541225742/

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    Connected Investors

    https://connectedinvestors.com/forum/14/i-would-not-invest-with-moe-mathews

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  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    Any possibility that the Fraudster utilized his Military Marine Background and his Veterans Charity as enticements to draw in investors?

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2013 · 19 posts · 20 votes
    5y
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