My first flip - I broke even

My first flip - I broke even

Flipper/Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 461 posts · 262 votes

I thought I would share my story with the hope that it inspires someone to start the home flipping adventure and/or saves someone from making some of the (costly) mistakes that I made. Note that I'm purposely not including $$ figures for privacy reasons. 

Background: After years about talking about doing a flip I finally jumped into the pool. The adventure started when I left my office job in April 2014. In June 2014 I bought my first property with cash (let's say that it was from an angel investor). 

The house: Built in 1952 and owned by the seller's family since 1954. The house had been vacant for over a year at this point and the seller, who was a relative of the deceased owner, lived in another state. 

Purchase: The property hit the MLS on a Wednesday, I got inside it on Thursday, and made an offer (all cash, no inspection contingencies) on Friday. The planned open house for Sunday was cancelled due to the seller receiving multiple offers. Negotiations took place on Monday. I had to increase my offer. My second offer was accepted on Tuesday. We closed 6 days later (the title company said it was the fastest closing they had ever done).

The plan: The house hadn't been updated in any significant way in decades. The wallpaper in the living room had turned yellow. The bathroom and kitchen were last touched in the 1980's (that was my guess). I knew that some of the mechanicals would need to be updated. The plumbing drains, from what I could see, looked to be updated (PVC). The landscaping had been neglected for years so it needed major pruning. The plan seemed simple: clean it up, paint, refinish hardwoods, new kitchen + new bath. I thought that I could do most of the work myself. My projected timeline was 3-4 months.

The outcome: I sold (closed on) the house in February 2015 (9 months and 9 days after my purchase) and broke even on paper. If you consider 9+ months of lost income then you could consider it a major financial loss. I don't because I look at it as a heck of an education that I couldn't of gotten from books or videos or online forums. 

What I learned:

1) I wanted to do most of the work myself. What I saved in checks written to contractors I lost (and then some) in the time it took me to complete everything; including holding costs. The takeaway: I love working with my hands and "fixing" things. The next time I decide to fix and flip I am going to pick one or two passion projects and make them my own (landscaping, tiling, etc.) The rest I will outsource. 

2) You don't know what you have until you open the walls. I found major plumbing issues and major electrical issues that were not apparent on the surface. These were definitely jobs for the pros. The takeaway: plan for the worst and hope for the best. This is where a lot of my money went and I hadn't budgeted for the worst.

3) I paid way too much for the house. I cannot overemphasize this enough. By my 20-20 hindsight calculations it was about $12-65k more than I should have paid depending on how you prefer to calculate your potential profit vs ARV. The takeaway: I got out by the skin of my teeth. The reality is also that another investor would have paid more than I would have I wouldn't have gotten the house. 

4) Don't put a house on the market less than 3 weeks before Christmas. The takeaway: just don't -- it's not a good time to be trying to sell a house.  

5) Finding good pros is key. My electrician (whom I had used in the past) introduced me to an HVAC guy and a builder and both paid off in dividends. Also, when you use a "big" company you will also be paying for their overhead (marketing, human resources, rent, etc). That showed in their pricing. The opposite end of the spectrum is that sometimes I had to wait until the "small" guys had time to do the work. It's a double edged sword. The takeaway: when you find someone you like, and trust, ask them who else they know. It also felt good helping out other entrepreneurs who are making a living doing what they love. I've since become friends with some of the guys.

6) Don't give up. There were times during the long process when I didn't see a way out. Had I given up I would have financially sunk my family. The takeaway: it's not always going to be easy. Be ready to have to dig in and push forward. 

Conclusion:

I am really, really glad that I did it. I am very proud of the final product. I spent years pretending that I was making an effort at becoming a REI when, in reality, I was spending my time doing busy work in order to convince myself that I was making strides towards my goal. I needed to get one under my belt. And now that I have I feel like I can do another -- only hopefully with a much more profitable outcome.

I'm happy to answer any questions but please keep in mind that I won't answer questions related to $$ amounts.

Before and After

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Joel OwensBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
11y

You work ON your business and not IN your business.

Anything where you can't remove yourself is not an investment but buying a job. Since you can't be physically at more than one place at a time this significantly impacts your income and growth potential.

You leverage people to increase your effectiveness and revenue streams. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 18 votes
    11y

    Thanks for sharing all the lessons you have learned. I'm in the middle I rehabbing my first flip & keep telling myself that I would be happy if I just break even! 

  • Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Nusrat Khan, don't be happy to just break even. There is no point in taking the risk and doing the work if you are happy to just break even. Be a little upset with yourself and take the lessons so that you do much better the next time. It is not terrible to break even but that is not a good result.

  • Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2013 · 643 posts · 280 votes
    11y

    @Doug W.

    Well done for taking some action! I would guess most people never get that far.

    Breaking-even is not bad on the first flip. You received an immense education. The nine months of time you put into is rough, but it can get better. My first two rehabs last years took me six months each. I had no idea what I was doing. I just finished rehab number 3 and number 4 and 5 are in process. My holding time has been cut to 2 to 3 months and I'm getting more and more accurate on my numbers. Plus, I'm getting to know which contractors who are excellent and which ones I should never call back.

    So it can get better if you keep moving forward.

    Mike

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    11y

    congrats for making it happen as its inspiring.the transformation looks great

  • Investor · Hamburg, NY · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    Thanks for the tips, sound like it was a good learning experience. 

  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    11y

    "Bought sense is Better than borrowed" Not sure who said it, but so true!!!...Keep it moving!!! 

  • Queens NY, NY · Member since 2013 · 467 posts · 107 votes
    11y

    @Doug W....congrats on taking action.

    One thing BP has taught me....You make money when you buy and that is the number one rule I am keeping in mind. I have backed out on a couple of accepted offer because the numbers did not work. After reading your post I see how it is vital to buy right.

    Thanks you for posting!!

     On to the next.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Doug W.

    Tremendous learning experience. There is no better teacher than consequences. You did a great job BTW on the house. Tough to have surprises on your first but happens even to the most experienced. It goes to show that each deal needs to be treated with respect. Well done IMO.

  • Real Estate Investor · Grand Junction, IA · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    Hey, I wish I would of "broke even" when I graduated from college.   Good for you for getting your hands dirty and learning.   You'll get a good one next time :) The home is beautiful

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    @Doug W.

     Thank you for the post. I have to admit it is good to see that not every deal goes as planned and puts thousands of dollars in your pocket as many newbies, like me, may be disillusioned to believe. I'm sorry to see that you didn't put money in your pocket, but glad to see that you gained valuable learning experience from it and will be stronger down the road for it. I have to say, you did an incredible job from looking at the pictures! Good luck on all future deals!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2014 · 461 posts · 262 votes
    11y

    Wow! I'm very pleasantly overwhelmed by your responses and votes for my original post! I was hesitant to actually publish the post but I really wanted to offer what moral support I could to other flippers because I know that during my very long 9 months I could have often used extra support from those who have experience. And it's also extra motivation on this Friday morning to find my next house! 

    Thanks to all of you that have offered words of encouragement and support! I'm going to try to respond to some specific questions and comments here. Please don't take offense if I missed yours! :)

     @Ken T. - I loved the breaking even on college education comment! That is the truth!! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2015 · 49 posts · 56 votes
    11y

    Thank you for sharing. You have learned many great lessons.  Here are my comments on a few: 

    #4 Holds true for selling and renting.  When I would have  a vacancy in November and December in the past I would start to wonder what was wrong with my rental, why there was half as much interest than the last time I rented it, if the area was getting worse, etc. But it turns out it is just a more difficult time of year to rent or sell.  To prevent this in the future I try to sign up November & December renters to modified lease, such as a 13 or 14 month lease.

    #5 Finding specialists is key.  In the beginning I tried to do most of the renovations myself, coming home sun burned and covered in dirt each day.  Eventually I started to hire out repairs so I could get back to working on my home business.  I found that the specialist could often work 4 times as fast as me due to their skill and specialized equipment.  For example a painter may charge $20 hr but complete the equivalent of 4 hours of work if I did it myself. So doing the work myself I was providing myself with a job that paid $5 per hour ($20/4hrs). I had to recognize that if I worked 40 hrs per week at $5hr for a year then I would only be saving $10,400 and missing out on generating income from my other businesses.

    I find that time helps to make up for renovation blunders/over expenses when you buy and hold rentals with positive cash flow. Over the course of a few years I collect rents and appreciation (in a good market), this tends to always make up for any unforeseen expenses I had during the initial purchase.  With a flip you loose the cushion of rent and appreciation.  The network of repair people and investor skill required for a flip always seems to be much greater than required for a buy and hold and eventual sale.

    Good luck   

  • Lender · Tampa/Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2014 · 356 posts · 148 votes
    11y

    Great post and congratulations on your first flip. The updates/renovations do look amazing! :) You'll make some profit on your next flip... thanks for the motivation and honesty!

  • Real Estate Investor · Cedar Park, TX · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 8 votes
    11y

    I feel for you. I also like working with my hands, especially painting. It seems every time I do the work it takes longer and costs more. I'm just doing the light easy jobs and painting. Finding a good contractor that doesn't overbid is priceless. Thank you for sharing your story. Can I ask if you determined your MAO before the purchase? How did you estimate your repairs?

  • Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 72 votes
    11y

    Congrats @Doug W. Great job on getting started.

    Perseverence is key in this business and you showed massive amounts of that.

    You will always have to spend time at your projects working in your business to make sure things turn out the way you want them to. Nobody will care as much as you do. Limiting your time onsite is key to free up time better spent elsewhere. Do not be the demo, tile, painter or landscaper just manage the project and make sure the finishing touches get done.

    Can't wait to hear about your next one.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeff Rabinowitz:

    @Nusrat Khan, don't be happy to just break even. There is no point in taking the risk and doing the work if you are happy to just break even. Be a little upset with yourself and take the lessons so that you do much better the next time. It is not terrible to break even but that is not a good result.

    I agree! Breaking even shouldn't be the goal.  It can happen and is better than losing money, but it's setting the bar too low.  And it's usually preventable.  Once you're into a rehab and find out what you didn't account for then you regroup. I see new investors all the time just throw up their hands and fix and pay for things as if they have no choices.  Many don't get any feedback or help how to reprioritize when you hit the unexpected..  Feedback from agents about what is and isn't selling and what's going on with recent appraisals is priceless, but most newbies don't work with agents until it's time to list.....and after they've spent all their money.

  • Real Estate Investor · Browns Valley, CA · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 13 votes
    11y

    @Doug Wright Thank you for sharing your experience. Education is expensive but we learn so much from these experiences. The two lessons that stand out in my mind most on this post that I would encourage newbie flippers

    to look carefully at are:

    1) you make your money when you buy the property. you have to get the right price or move on.

    2) time is money, holding cost can kill a profitable investment quickly.

    Even us seasoned investors need to be reminded of these "rules". I recently purchased an office building for a satellite office in one of my markets. I did great on #1 and bought the building for about what the lot was worth... but I've failed miserably on #2. I hired the wrong contractor. I am now three months behind on the project.  I have a nice final bill from the contractor for his unfinished work  (which despite knowing that he does not deserve to be paid its not worth a potential lien or legal fight to not pay) I fired him on Monday. Hired a new contractor yesterday who thinks he can clean up the guys mess and get me back on track in two weeks.  Hard lesson learned.  I should have cut this guy loose several months back.   Hopefully I will be able to post my success story on the project soon!

    Dust yourself off, get back on the horse and start again. :)

  • Butler, PA · Member since 2015 · 29 posts · 7 votes
    11y

    Thank you for your honesty and inspiration!  Also - thank you to all of those who commented here and shared their nuggets of wisdom!  I am a sponge, soaking in everything I can ... hopefully leading up to the day that I get to post my first success story!  :-) 

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Doug W.:

    Wow! I'm very pleasantly overwhelmed by your responses and votes for my original post! I was hesitant to actually publish the post but I really wanted to offer what moral support I could to other flippers because I know that during my very long 9 months I could have often used extra support from those who have experience. And it's also extra motivation on this Friday morning to find my next house! 

    Congrats!  The house looks great it and appears you sold it relatively quickly, even with the holidays. 

    I'm curious about the extra support you could have used.....and how you could have made sure you got more.  I see a lot of people going it alone with little feedback.  I know I used to be like that.  Were you running your own comps and numbers?  How often did you consult with local investors or agents during the 9 months to keep up to date on sales and what was going on with other rehabs? How often did you ask anyone besides contractors for help?

  • Investor · Frisco, TX · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 18 votes
    11y

    @Jeff Rabinowitz

    @K. Marie Poe

    My goal to just break even was what I needed to tell myself to jump in and buy my first investment. I knew I would learn a lot and as long as I didn't lose money I would consider that a win. Hopefully that won't be the case and all future flips will also be profitable! 

  • Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    Thanks for your story. As someone just prepping to make their first investment, this is gold. Good luck on future endeavors! 

  • Real Estate Investor · Point Pleasant Beach, NJ · Member since 2014 · 103 posts · 52 votes
    11y

    Great story @Doug W. and great job on the house.  I admire your perseverance!  As you alluded to, this should be viewed as a first class education.  Better than any college in my humble opinion, and much cheaper too.  Learn and do better on number 2!

    Thanks for sharing!

    Mike

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    11y

    Thanks for sharing. I like that you listed why you did e work yourself and what it cost you and what you learned from it all.  The job you did looks great! Hope to share my first buy/fix/flip you like you soon!

  • Property Manager · Renton, WA · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 20 votes
    11y

    "I don't because I look at it as a heck of an education that I couldn't of gotten from books or videos or online forums." 

    This quote that you said above is the reason you will be successful! So many people I know personally that are self made "investors" but I have yet to ever see them dive in to any deal. They can analyze for days, but don't have the balls to pull the trigger. You came out even or short on this deal, oh well! You had balls to pull the trigger, and understand that its a learning experience and that these forums are just 25% of the work while the other 75% is out in the field actually handling business. love the pics! 

  • Real Estate Investor · Toms River, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 0 votes
    11y

    Great job you are ahead of most people. From what I have been reading your

    going to loose money on your 1st. thanks for the share. 

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