Flip gone bad. Need advice please.

Flip gone bad. Need advice please.

Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
So I purchased a condo that I was going to live in flip. I did all the renovations and turned out great even after a few hiccups and came in on budget ($40k). But the hoa voted and passed special assessments to upgrade the building envelope and is doing it in a few sections. The first assessment has already cost me ($25k) and they don't know what the future ones will cost but might be another $30-$40k. This is eaten away at my profit because I now have the unexpected cost and can't price the property at the higher price that I had originally planned cause of the upcoming repairs. I've had two offers and both deals fell apart cause of the upcoming work, and now my agent is wanting me to drop my price again. I'm already at a break even price and if I lower it any more I will begin to lose money. My agent is suggesting that I lower it $30k-$40k and hope for multiple offers( the market I'm in is red hot and am seeing multiple offers on most things and a lot are going for well over asking). That scares me. I have permission to rent it but wouldn't get me around the upcoming $30k+ work coming up . Am I better to cut my losses and call it a learning experience and sell at a loss or hold on to it ? Any advice would be great. Thanks bp
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Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

I would suggest you cut your losses and move on unless there's a strong reason to believe that the property value will increase like crazy in the near future.  Maybe with the new assessments that might be happen.  A lot of investors make good money on condos but I have stayed away from them for the reasons you stated.

Good Luck

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  • Linda WeygantPro Member
    Investor and CPA · Arvada, CO · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Does the HOA not offer the ability to do a special assessment as an add-on to the monthly fee rather than paying such a big chunk up front? I find it difficult to believe that all owners were expected to come up with $25K with another $30 down the pike. If they did offer that option, is it too late to change your mind and finance the first $25K?

    Could you then sell it while disclosing the higher HOA payment?

    This could give you a little bit of breathing room.  

    If this were me, I would hang onto the property and rent it out (assuming it will cash flow) and then try selling it again in a year or so or whenever the repairs are expected to be completed.

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Thanks for the reply Linda but unfortunately the hoa has already voted and approved it so there isn't any negotiation on the owing money and is owing in three instalments. And where I'm from (Vancouver Canada) they have the right to sell your property and collect first before the mortgage so I don't see many people not paying. And the rental would maybe cost me $50-$100/ per mo to keep not factoring any borrowed money for the upcoming fees if I can access the extra money. It's not a great situation to be in but trying to make the best of it.
  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    What price range are you expecting to sell the unit for?

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    It's listed for $390800 (it's a one bed and bath 660 sq. in English bay downtown Vancouver)and the two offers were $388000 and $387000
  • Rental Property Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2014 · 249 posts · 81 votes
    11y

    If you sell it you make nothing. Will you cash flow if you rent it or turn it into an executive rental? What about a lease option scenario?

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    if I rent it furnished I should be able to get more but I'm not allowed to have it as a short term rental and still not likely to cash flow if I'm having to pay off the extra upcoming work.  I'm not too familiar how the lease option works.  Care to explain? 

  • Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I would suggest you cut your losses and move on unless there's a strong reason to believe that the property value will increase like crazy in the near future.  Maybe with the new assessments that might be happen.  A lot of investors make good money on condos but I have stayed away from them for the reasons you stated.

    Good Luck

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Thanks bob it's looking that way.
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Beau Walsh:

    So I purchased a condo that I was going to live in flip. I did all the renovations and turned out great even after a few hiccups and came in on budget ($40k). But the hoa voted and passed special assessments to upgrade the building envelope and is doing it in a few sections. The first assessment has already cost me ($25k) and they don't know what the future ones will cost but might be another $30-$40k. This is eaten away at my profit because I now have the unexpected cost and can't price the property at the higher price that I had originally planned cause of the upcoming repairs. I've had two offers and both deals fell apart cause of the upcoming work, and now my agent is wanting me to drop my price again. I'm already at a break even price and if I lower it any more I will begin to lose money. My agent is suggesting that I lower it $30k-$40k and hope for multiple offers( the market I'm in is red hot and am seeing multiple offers on most things and a lot are going for well over asking). That scares me. I have permission to rent it but wouldn't get me around the upcoming $30k+ work coming up . Am I better to cut my losses and call it a learning experience and sell at a loss or hold on to it ? Any advice would be great. Thanks bp

    I would cut my losses and move onto the next one.

    Don't let your funds sit and do nothing.

    Learn from the experience and don't do the same mistake on the next one.

    Houses are easier to flip than condo's IMO.

    Thanks and have a great day.

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Thanks Angelo, yes I would of loved to flip a house and own one one day, however in Vancouver houses start at over a million for a cheap one. The other day a house sold for two million over asking in multiple offers in Vancouver; needless to say the market is red hot. Which makes my situation even more frustrating.
  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Here's the link if anyone's interested for that house. http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/7197754
  • Investor · Stouffville, Ontario · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 65 votes
    11y

    I would say the big lesson here is to work in an area that you are an expert in. Knowing the Condo's maintenance history and reviewing the Condo's status certificate would have raised some red flags. Before you bought did your lawyer review the Status Cert? 

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Yes definitely a huge lesson and one I won't forget. Me and my agent reviewed the meeting minutes but they didn't go into detail about how much work needed to be done and how much it was going to cost. we got quoted for the property manager that it was going to be $3k. If I knew the full story I would of never purchased.
  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 163 posts · 51 votes
    11y

    So, you're saying that the HOA can just vote on it and they expect the condo owner to just fork over a $55+k chunk of money or they take your house? That seems pretty outrageous.

    Do they have to give you advanced notice? Do they have to invite everyone in the building to the meeting to discuss/vote on it? I would read through your HOA agreement/rights and see if there is anything in there that might help you. Possibly talk to an attorney?

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    Well it gets voted under a special agm and all the owners have a vote but yes essentially you don't have a choice if it gets passed.
  • Rental Property Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2014 · 249 posts · 81 votes
    11y

    @Beau Walsh A lease option is where you lease the place to someone and a portion of the rent they pay each month goes towards a down payment.  I am not an expert on lease options -- but that is the general idea.  With the lack of cash flow though, I am not sure it is a great idea.  Breaking even and losing as little as possible sounds ideal.

    I hope that helps.

  • Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 359 posts · 158 votes
    11y

    I hate hoa's. Sorry you are dealing with it. I would cut losses and make the money back sooner. 

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Morris Heights, NY · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Take the offers, hopefully they are all cash, and get out! you will lose more if you hold on!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    11y

    Looks like you have figured out your learning lesson here. Cut your losses and move on. Sell as fast as you can for what you can get, eat the loss and make it up on the next few. Your opportunity costs of trying to salvage a no loss on this would end up being greater than just taking the smaller loss today. That's my take and it comes from experience. I am about to take a 6 figure loss on a flip so I feel your pain, but realize that it can be made up on future deals.

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Will Barnard has it right. Part of investing is knowing when to cut your losses. If you had offers only $2K below your ask, you should definitely take them. Its within 1% of your asking price. Why would you turn it down?

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y


    @Will Barnard

    My favorite 4 letter word does not start with a F or a S

    It starts with an N

    It is NEXT!

    IMO You will lose some money in REI, keep it small....

  • Vancouver , British Columbia · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 5 votes
    11y
    I did take to offer but they fell apart during the subject period unfortunately.
  • Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Beau Walsh Someone else asked this ... what will values do after the assessments and improvements are made?  I imagine condo prices are soft while these assessments have been pending.  If you can stick it out a bit longer, then you might be the only condo for sale in the community vs. one of many trying to avoid a large assessment. 

    Just guessing that you're 'selling on bad news'.  

  • Chatsworth, CA · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    I don't think the HOA is making you pay $23K upfront that would be nuts! Im pretty sure they will make it something like a $25-$45 or higher second assessment on top of the current HOA cost until the assessment of $23K is paid off.

    I saw this after the 1994 Northridge earthquake on one of my listings, they are just now almost done paying it off, it was an extra fee of $25/mo onto of the current HOA fees. all i did was disclose this info to the new buyers and they were ok with it and it was a done deal! :)

    hope this helps you.

  • Contractor · Temecula, CA · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 36 votes
    11y

    @Beau Walsh How soon will the first phase of work begin? How long will it take? What type of work exactly are they doing? Will the improvements raise the value of your property when completed? When will the second phase begin and how long will that take? Which buildings will be affected by phase one and phase two? Will you have to fully disclose the additional costs that may be coming to a potential buyer if you sell between phase one and two? If so will that affect the sale? Do the buyers who made those two offers know that there may be another $30k -$40k assessment? Do they know you just put $40k into the property and $25k for the first phase of work? Will you need to come to the table with cash if you accept the offers and if so, how much and are you willing to or able to put out the cash to get out? These are are the questions I'd ask myself if I was in your shoes. The first phase of work being done can be looked at as a negative or a positive. The negative being noise, dust and inconvenience, the positive is that the work has been paid for and when complete can raise the value of the property. Is there a way to get an ARV for when the first phase of work is done? If so, use that as a selling tool, maybe to another investor who likes future appreciation and turn key rentals. Just my thoughts. I hope whatever you decide it works out good for you, this sounds like a good lesson learned and also for many BP forum readers, including me! Like Rich Dad says "fail faster" it will make you better and smarter. Sorry for the long winded post and all the questions, that's just how I problem solve.

    Best of luck to you!

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