Owning Rental Out of State - Challanges Cleveland OHIO

Owning Rental Out of State - Challanges Cleveland OHIO

Investor · Pembroke Pines, FL · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 25 votes

Hi BPers

I have been on this site around a year, and had great help from lots of members here. 

What i noticed many ppl post their success stories how they started, how the bought their 1st property and then grew a nice size of units. I have yet to see some one talk about the challenges he / she went thru to own or manage the property he owns. 

So here is my story. It may be bit different than many BPers here. I currently own 6 units , 9 units and a Duplex in Cleveland Ohio. I started March 2016 and looking to expand on my next one in the next 60-90 days to add 30-40 units to my portfolio. 

I tell you, its looks rosy a guy started a year ago with none and a year or so later my have 50+ units. Owning comes with its challenges. I am here to voice out the challenges not the success in getting the 50+ units.

Having a Strategy on managing is crucial, I had to learn the hard way. I am happy to have been exposed to it. My properties did not make any money this year but also I did not put out my pocket additional moneies to keep it sustaining. the properties were bought that it they ROI around 25%-29%

My Partner and I purchased the 6 units, have a partner who owned 6-7 duplexes before me. He asked to manage it. He did. 3-4 month in to it, I found out that the renters did not pay on time, some missed payments, some pay what ever they wanted and shorted the rent money. The only action at that point my partner did is calling and reminding the tenants, it went to Deaf ears. We realized we needed actual local presence. So we talked to a Local Real Estate Agent paid him $15/door to be present when needed. We will do all the Financials all we need him is to be avilable for show, 3day notice, knock on a door and pass every other week to check on the condition of the property.

The Agent is a great guy I have done 3 deals with him and will continue to work with him.

This worked for 3 months, he helped us in posting 3 day notices when needed, talked to tenants when needed. We evicted the bad tenants and prepared the units to be rented and he started helping. 

while this is happening, we acquired the 9 units and similar thing happened. I had 2 bad tenants from the get go. they left with in 60 days.

Now i have 15 units with 7 units empty. I am at 50% Vacancy. it remained like this for a period of 4 months. I dug in the the issue and found out that the agent did not place a vacancy sign on the property, also did not post any online ads, I was the one who placed an add on Apartment.com and found that he schedules all shows on a Sat regardless when the prospect tenant wants to view. I understand you cannot open your day to go show the unit daily however this strategy did not work. Feedback i got was not a lot of calls, missed showings, no one came etc.... I understand his priorities are not managing a property but to sell them there is not much money in managing a property for him and his time is not inline with the showings time which is between 4-6 pm. I needed to change the strategy ASAP.  

I took over the entire Renting operation. Mind you I live in Florida and Own in Cleveland OH. I took over, talked to 2 tenants one from each building I had good relationship with and asked them for help to open the door when for a showing. I agreed to give them $100 for each lease signed. 

Here is when the magic started. I posted on Criaglist, Apartment.com and placed a sign on the properties with my contact info. the phone went off the hook, ringing from 9 am to 10 pm 7 days of the week. I took every call and set up 3-4 showings daily. I had days with 10-15 calls asking me about the apartment. Vetted them callers on phone, showed the apartments and then ran Background checks and leased. I was able to rent 6 out of the 7 empty in period of 3 weeks. now i have a building 100% Occupied and another is 90% occupied. The tenants that helped me made a buck and they were happy. 

Some ppl wil tell me that this will happen when you do not have a property manager hired. I understand, in my pursue to acquire properties, i have yet to meet an owner that said he had a good property manager. they all noted you as owner need to be involved and cannot be hands off. That does not mean that there isnt good managers out there. But I noticed each has his priorities and it does not align with mine. Property managers are usually brokers and real estate agents also. They will take a call and act for a sale rather than a maintenance call or showing.

I do not mind jumping and getting myself involved, which i recommend to all owners to do so. I learned so much this past year and I got involved in maintenance, emergencies, rentals and many other things that i am not afraid to jump to double or triple the size of my portfolio without hesitation. 

I hope this post will give some tips to some challenged owners and it helps them. All I am saying, watch for your priorities and your manager. Jump in when needed do not be afraid. you will be surprised with the results.

Excuse my long post ! :)

Any Owners with other Challenges to Share ? 

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Investor · Westlake, OH · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 4 votes
9y

Having bought three properties in the Cleveland area myself one year ago I've had a vastly different experience. I tried to use the 2% rule and got close at around 1.8%.  I hired a management company and I would highly recommend it. For example, I had to evict one of the inherited tenants.  They were three days late and the management company sprang into action. I didn't have to go to court, hire an attorney, or hear a sob story. The handled it all.  I had all the properties inspected prior to purchase and knew I had some capital improvements looming in the near future.  As luck would have it I bought a furnace, had to replace a bathroom floor/ toilet, and some  minor repairs.  However, I didn't need to chase down contractors, the management company had their own crews and contractors that they used. Self management may be plausible in A rated suburbs  of Cleveland and is probably essential in war zone areas. My properties are all in C areas and I've found that they can be bought at a price that makes management economical. If you overpay for a property though, good management can't fix that. I also have a good job and frankly, I don't want to take the pay cut to spend time self managing. I had a very small profit in year one. What I can't stress enough is that I spend very little time dealing with the properties. I have the luxury of being local but I think I could move away and nothing would change.  I feel good thought considering how hard Murphy's Law kicked in the first year. One last thought is that everyone's rent is going up by 3-4% this year per my instructions.  The tenants have no one to argue with when the news comes from the management company and not me.

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  • Realtor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 857 votes
    9y

    Are you chasing pennys or dollars? 

    The PM stuff is really saving you pennys when you should be seeking as you said to expand your door count. Thats where your real money is. Consider taking a little less and out sourcing your PM. It will free up your time to chase the bigger deals. 

  • Investor · Pembroke Pines, FL · Member since 2016 · 37 posts · 25 votes
    9y

    This post is not to address pennys or dollars. I am voicing out owners involvement for the experience and knowledge, dollars will follow. 

    However I would expect from many property management companies to comment as you noted above because its their interest to have owners push the management to them. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Littleton, CO · Member since 2013 · 197 posts · 77 votes
    9y

    I agree @Achraf El Churafa , 

    You need to know how well you can do it, to really be able to evaluate how your management company is doing, if you hire one.  If you have never done it, it's a good experience.

    cheers!

  • Rental Property Investor · Davenport, FL · Member since 2016 · 593 posts · 382 votes
    9y

    @Achraf El Churafa Thank you for sharing your experiences. There is always something to learn from these stories. The most important is that no one will care about your money or your investments as much as you do. You will always need help as you grow, but you have to stay on top of your investments to make sure they are performing. 

  • Investor · Westlake, OH · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 4 votes
    9y

    Having bought three properties in the Cleveland area myself one year ago I've had a vastly different experience. I tried to use the 2% rule and got close at around 1.8%.  I hired a management company and I would highly recommend it. For example, I had to evict one of the inherited tenants.  They were three days late and the management company sprang into action. I didn't have to go to court, hire an attorney, or hear a sob story. The handled it all.  I had all the properties inspected prior to purchase and knew I had some capital improvements looming in the near future.  As luck would have it I bought a furnace, had to replace a bathroom floor/ toilet, and some  minor repairs.  However, I didn't need to chase down contractors, the management company had their own crews and contractors that they used. Self management may be plausible in A rated suburbs  of Cleveland and is probably essential in war zone areas. My properties are all in C areas and I've found that they can be bought at a price that makes management economical. If you overpay for a property though, good management can't fix that. I also have a good job and frankly, I don't want to take the pay cut to spend time self managing. I had a very small profit in year one. What I can't stress enough is that I spend very little time dealing with the properties. I have the luxury of being local but I think I could move away and nothing would change.  I feel good thought considering how hard Murphy's Law kicked in the first year. One last thought is that everyone's rent is going up by 3-4% this year per my instructions.  The tenants have no one to argue with when the news comes from the management company and not me.

  • David TerbeekPro Member
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 260 posts · 162 votes
    9y

    @Achraf El Churafa  Good story, I enjoyed reading the good and the bad together since I agree that you do see a lot success only stories.  The one thing I noticed was that you didn't actually hire a Property Management Company, it appears you first "hired" your partner then hired a real estate agent and tried to fit both into being a property manager when that was probably not their background/training/passion.  The difference between your story and @David Metzger 's story is that it appears David hired an actual Property Management Company devoted to that trade.  There is a difference.

    Although I think a reputable, qualified and focused Property Management Company (not a partner, handyman, Realtor, friend of the family) is a good investment for most out of state investors, it certainly is possible for an out of state investor, willing to invest the time and effort, to find ways to essentially self-manage from afar - as you did.  Kudos to you for getting it done.

  • Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    When I bought my duplex I inherited a section 8 tenant. The unit was renting for well below market value. Market rent $1400, she was paying $950. I kept her for the remaining 8 months of the lease then did not renew so I could remodel and charge market rent. My property manager handled everything. The tenant refused to leave, threatened to sue. It was a huge battle because section 8 is always on the side of the tenant. At least in ultra liberal Seattle where the property is located. They understood the section 8 system. It's possible to manage from out of state. But for rookies like me I say get a PM.
  • Investor · Leander, TX · Member since 2016 · 299 posts · 402 votes
    9y

    I've had one property for the last year in the Cleveland area (Warrensville Heights). 

    My family lives in Texas so I have a property management firm in place. 

    The house was already tenanted as we purchased the property from another investor, and they were perfect tenants, rent always paid on time ($920) and the house was well maintained. 

    But unfortunately they fell on hard times and gave notice and the house just went vacant at the end of April. Everything went very smoothly.

    Increasing the rent to $950 a month on the new lease and praying for tenants like them. 

    I'm also in the process of buying another house in the Cleveland area, up in Mentor. 

    We close in early June.

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    What do they say about people who represent themselves in court have a fool for a lawyer? Same for property management in remote C properties. I own a portfolio out of state and the PM handles everything. I get monthly statements and deposits. End of there year I see how much money I made. Been doing this for 4 years and works for me. My time is spent on my busy job, family , lots of travel and having fun. Dealing with Jerry Springer drama does not fit into the plan
  • Lender · All, Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 144 posts · 46 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed Well said.  I have made mistakes buying rental homes in Cleveland from my home in California.  I followed the advice of someone (I actually met here on Bigger Pockets) who lives in Cleveland, who was "supposedly" helping me.  Turns out, he was only helping himself, collecting my rent for me, rarely ever communicating, and keeping my rent money.  Since then, I've learned so much!  I still have my first little duplex (C/D neighborhood), my back unit tenant is great, and I have self-managed from afar ever since.  I now have MANY trusted "boots on the ground" there, spent  The entire month of March there renovating another home and I really like Cleveland for rentals, and even fix and flips, but you REALLY need to know your areas and I advise staying away from those C/D areas only because it's really hard to find good people who would even want to live there. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    9y

    Self management can work great, even from afar. It's about the investor and what they want to get out of the investment. Some folks have the skill set, know how and desire to be a landlord and it works for them. Others simply can't or don't want to be involved, hence the market for management companies. I do think that an out of state investor is facing a very steep hill when looking to self manage. It's not an easy job and when you are that far away it becomes that much harder. 

    The issue of long distance difficulty aside I look at the "should I manage, or not manage" debate like this. My staff are in charge of a portfolio worth roughly $35 million. That is a lot of front doors. How many of those doors could I have personally painted? All of them, I am the boss after all. I get to assign the tasks. How many did I personally paint? None of them. Why? I have no desire to be a painter. I feel my time is better spent on other aspects of this business. This is what investors need to look at when determining what they are going to get out of their investment.  

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2017 · 343 posts · 102 votes
    9y

    @Achraf El Churafa - Brave post. I second your suggestion for owners involvement model is irrelevant.

    Good Luck

    Vivek

  • Joplin, MO · Member since 2017 · 20 posts · 10 votes
    9y
    I envy those of you who have had good luck with PM's, I believe this is where networking comes to play. I've fired two PMs in the past year, but being out of state it wasn't easy finding my next PM. One of the new PMs I signed with was courteous, efficient, and said just the right things over the phone, and I believed they were the right fit. However as time proves it was not the case; I visited the properties personally after it stayed vacant for 6 months(?), they say it was because there was no interest but it was clear to me when I arrived the unit was not ready to be rented, it was dirty, toilets were broken, the refrigerator has not been cleaned out since the last tenant was evicted 10 months ago etc. So I can say I have had my share of bad managers. Two weeks after I visited they found a tenant. From this lesson I now believe a regular visit to your out of state properties is important, meet your managers face to face also keeps them honest too.
  • Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    6 months?! Wow I feel blessed. I got lucky with mine, he was the first one I called. I'm looking to buy in Ohio next. On the hunt for a good manager.
  • Ashland, MA · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    Hello @David Metzger

    Im looking for a property management and realtor  in CLE Ohio that has experience handling properties in class B and C neighborhoods.  It sounds from your post that the one you are using could meet my needs.  Would you mind sharing their name and contact info?  Thank you.

  • Ashland, MA · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 20 votes
    9y

    Hello @David Metzger

    Im looking for a property management and realtor  in CLE Ohio that has experience handling properties in class B and C  neighborhoods.  It sounds from your post that the one you are using could meet my needs.  Would you mind sharing their name and contact info?  Thank you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Miami Beach, FL · Member since 2017 · 105 posts · 59 votes
    9y

    @Achraf El Churafa thank you for sharing your story. I own 3 SFH in Miami and I manage 22 units for my clients. I dont feel ready to start investing in other states for the same reasons you had a hard time at the beginning. But reading your post is giving me something to think about: I may buy a property, hire a PM but I can still be involved with the whole process. Thank you! And congrats for making it work!!!

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2012 · 771 posts · 252 votes
    9y

    @Cecilia Arnulphi

    What size property(ies)?

  • Rental Property Investor · National · Member since 2018 · 66 posts · 11 votes
    8y
    @Achraf El Churafa this is awesome. I love to hear the bad stories it’s very helpful. I am looking. To invest in Cleveland before year en, currently narrowing down neighborhoods. I’m glad to see that it all worked out for you.
  • New to Real Estate · Gardena, CA · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    5y

    what are some good PM in Cleveland, looking to connect.

  • Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    You should reach out to Dave Terbeek with Remax Haven. He is on this thread and he is excellent as a PM. His company manages part of my portfolio out there as well.

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