25 units at 24 years old - What I've learned

25 units at 24 years old - What I've learned

Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes

Last week, I closed on a triplex and my portfolio hit 25 units, and I wanted to share what I've learned in the hope that it may help some investors who are starting out (both young and old). This deal:

Purchase Price: $162,500

Rehab required: $10,000

ARV: 220,000

Monthly rents: $2,800

My monthly cash flow will likely total ~$350, depending on what I ultimately get for rents. I'll probably leave about $10,000 in the building after I refinance, which is more than I'd like but still makes it a good deal (for my criteria). 

Anyways, what I've learned:

- Start networking with private money lenders immediately. Even if you plan to use conventional financing for your first deal or two, you'll never be able to effectively scale and consistently close on great deals if you don't use private financing. In today's market, you just can't consistently compete (if you are looking to do a number of deals in a short amount of time) using traditional financing. When meeting with private lenders, bring sample deals that would be an example of what you'd pitch them so you can truly evaluate what caliber of deals you will need to find to secure financing.

- Start focusing on equity, not cash flow. Of course, it is essential to analyze cash flow when evaluating a potential buy and hold investment, however, I've found that the best investors are the ones who focus on leaving minimal cash in deals (and buying with equity on the front end). Stop focusing on dollars a month in cash flow, and start worrying about how much below market you are buying the property at and what your cash on cash return will be (as a %). I own properties where I make $50/door in cash flow, some people may laugh at that, but I have no money in the deal (infinite return).

- Despite the goal of not leaving cash in deals, you'll have a hard time responsibly closing on deals if you don't have cash in the bank (closing costs, inspections during due diligence, paying contractors after you close, dealing with unforeseen problems). With that being said, if you truly don't have money in the bank, focus on increasing your income before trying to figure out how to buy real estate with truly no money down.

- Always buy with your exit in mind (even if you plan to hold long term). I recently had difficulty selling the first property I bought because it had an undersized septic tank and a dug well servicing the building (not a drilled well). As a result, it didn't qualify for FHA/VA/conventional financing and my buyer pool shrunk significantly. While I ended up finding a buyer, my selling price took a serious hit (learning experience!).

- Focus on getting in the game. Don't feel the need to hit a home run on your first deal.. a single or double is better than sitting on the sidelines. If you're young and can't get conventional financing, use commercial financing. Most of my 2-4 unit properties are financed with commercial loans because I won't qualify for a traditional 30 year, fixed-rate mortgages.. sure the terms are worse but it's better than not owning property.

Best of luck to everyone!

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Peter TverdovBusiness Member
Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but you're equity stripping everything, leaving your cash flow dangerously thin on already tiny properties at this point in time of the real estate cycle when rates are increasing and we've seen a 10 year run? I hope you're LTVs are 60-70% on those refis and not 75-80%. What is your plan when commercial loans re-set in 5 years and the rates are 7%? Your $50 or even $350 a month cash flows will go south in a damn hurry. 

I'm going to venture a guess you have little to no real reserves (credit is not a reserve) and that you haven't factored in what happens if rental markets get soft or drop.

What could go wrong being mortgaged to death? 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Coach · FL · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 10 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson also where in NH are you from? My hometown is Killington. Went to portsmith alot back in the day
  • Rental Property Investor · Thibodaux, LA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Amazing story and truly some good take home points. Our favorite holding period is forever, but we should still prefer to buy what could be sold with little hassle in a pinch. 

  • Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    Awesome read! Congrats Axel!

    @Mark M. I had the same issue! Answer is: don't buy in the Bay Area... at least not now. I moved out and you might consider the same if you want to get into real estate without mountains of cash.

  • Newcastle, ME · Member since 2018 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Congrats, I wish I had gotten into to 30 years ago to.

    I closed on my first deal in August. 3 unit, had one just go vacant and am rehabbing it now, fogure I'll have a few thousand into it including floors and appliances. It has positive cash flow and equity, and cash flow is going up as I am raising the rent by $250 a month on this one unit. I would have liked to aquired it for less, but the market is tough and I had 2 others going after the same properties I was looking at.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson I am very motivated by this post. Awesome to hear others of a similar age crushing it, and hope to be where you are soon! Cheers
  • Real Estate Agent · Staten Island, NY · Member since 2013 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    Great  success, you are an inspiration. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

  • Evan KirkpatrickBusiness Member
    Accountant · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 7 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark M.:

    Congrats on your success and at such a young age.  Kudos!  But sounds like you live in a low cost of living area.

    Move to the San Francisco Bay Area and see if you an replicate your results.  Can you get a loan for $1-2MM?  Do you have a mountain of cash to perform even the most minor of renovations.  Even the immigrant central Americans (El Salvadoreans/Guatemalans) are buying new cars here they make so much cash!!

    No way no how to get a good multi deal here in San Francisco.  That ship sailed in the 90s (or if you were super lucky and bribed your way into a deal 2009-2010). 

    But, I can surf in the morning, mountain bike in the afternoon, and ski at night.  Pros and cons I suppose.  

    Maybe if there's another downturn I can find a couple multis - currently sitting on a pile of cash.  But for now I'm content running my professional services business which nets me close to 7 figures for a 3-day week.  Maybe RE isn't for me (despite Bigger Pockets clickbait emails saying it's so so easy).   

     I think what most people would tell you is that you need to be looking to buy from a distance.  It takes more work to build up a team remotely, but the joy of modern telecommunications is that you aren't stuck buying your properties in the crazy overheated Bay Area market and can look elsewhere in the country.  

    Also, yeah, if you can make $1M a year (even in CA with the high COL and the crazy state income tax) working <30 hours a week, you're going to be better off focusing on that than mucking around with real estate.  There's no urgent rush to do anything with the capital you build up; you can just have a mix of securities and keeping some liquid while you keep on trucking.

  • San Rafael, CA · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 4 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Scott Fromowtiz:

    Awesome read! Congrats Axel!

    @Mark M. I had the same issue! Answer is: don't buy in the Bay Area... at least not now. I moved out and you might consider the same if you want to get into real estate without mountains of cash.

    Cheers.  You mean you moved out the of the Bay Area or you invested in another area?  

    I'm seriously considering the latter. Though as a landlord newbie it doesn't seem like the smartest move.

    I have already have my retirement sorted, have plenty invested in stocks and funds, but now have a lot of cash and not sure what do do with it. 


    Not sure if I could ever move away.  I love the Bay Area outdoors too much.  No place else in the USA to get mountains, ocean, and year-round great weather.  

    Plus my primary business depends on the thriving economy of SF. 

  • Rental Property Investor · NJ/PA · Member since 2016 · 555 posts · 149 votes
    7y
    Nh has such low price houses? 

    How do you manage 25 units ? 



    Originally posted by @Axel Ragnarsson:

    Last week, I closed on a triplex and my portfolio hit 25 units, and I wanted to share what I've learned in the hope that it may help some investors who are starting out (both young and old). This deal:

    Purchase Price: $162,500

    Rehab required: $10,000

    ARV: 220,000

    Monthly rents: $2,800

    My monthly cash flow will likely total ~$350, depending on what I ultimately get for rents. I'll probably leave about $10,000 in the building after I refinance, which is more than I'd like but still makes it a good deal (for my criteria). 

    Anyways, what I've learned:

    - Start networking with private money lenders immediately. Even if you plan to use conventional financing for your first deal or two, you'll never be able to effectively scale and consistently close on great deals if you don't use private financing. In today's market, you just can't consistently compete (if you are looking to do a number of deals in a short amount of time) using traditional financing. When meeting with private lenders, bring sample deals that would be an example of what you'd pitch them so you can truly evaluate what caliber of deals you will need to find to secure financing.

    - Start focusing on equity, not cash flow. Of course, it is essential to analyze cash flow when evaluating a potential buy and hold investment, however, I've found that the best investors are the ones who focus on leaving minimal cash in deals (and buying with equity on the front end). Stop focusing on dollars a month in cash flow, and start worrying about how much below market you are buying the property at and what your cash on cash return will be (as a %). I own properties where I make $50/door in cash flow, some people may laugh at that, but I have no money in the deal (infinite return).

    - Despite the goal of not leaving cash in deals, you'll have a hard time responsibly closing on deals if you don't have cash in the bank (closing costs, inspections during due diligence, paying contractors after you close, dealing with unforeseen problems). With that being said, if you truly don't have money in the bank, focus on increasing your income before trying to figure out how to buy real estate with truly no money down.

    - Always buy with your exit in mind (even if you plan to hold long term). I recently had difficulty selling the first property I bought because it had an undersized septic tank and a dug well servicing the building (not a drilled well). As a result, it didn't qualify for FHA/VA/conventional financing and my buyer pool shrunk significantly. While I ended up finding a buyer, my selling price took a serious hit (learning experience!).

    - Focus on getting in the game. Don't feel the need to hit a home run on your first deal.. a single or double is better than sitting on the sidelines. If you're young and can't get conventional financing, use commercial financing. Most of my 2-4 unit properties are financed with commercial loans because I won't qualify for a traditional 30 year, fixed-rate mortgages.. sure the terms are worse but it's better than not owning property.

    Best of luck to everyone!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 167 votes
    7y

    Congrats on your early success @Axel Ragnarsson! I am 22 years old and just closed my first deal a few months ago and and also currently flipping a house with partners. It is very refreshing to see other young investors out here taking action! Keep it up!

    Question for you, which leads are bringing you the majority of your deals? I know you mentioned you got most of them off market but I am curious as to which specific source is supplying your deals. Direct mail marketing, wholesalers, Craigslist, etc.? 

    Also, how long did it take you to acquire your 25 units?

  • Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    Evan Kirkpatrick. If I am reading your post correctly you are stating you are making 7 figure salary. 7 figures is $1,000,000 How do you do that when the average accountant in San Francisco is listed by Google as being in the $65k to $70k range?

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes
    7y

    @Mark M. My market (Manchester, New Hampshire) is certainly very different than the bay area and the cost of living is less expensive... I would not even be able to touch this level of growth if I was investing in a major market. My friends that live in the bay area are exploring the idea of investing back in my market for the reasons you mentioned. It looks like you are running a great business, I wish you the best!

    @Peter Cochran I work with local, small credit unions and generally refinance with commercial loans (since don't really qualify for traditional residential mortgages right now). I get terms similar to 75%-80% LTV, 10 year fixed rates between 5.5%-6%, and 25 year amortization periods. I have to personally guarantee all of my loans and I doubt there are many (if any) lenders that won't require a personal guarantee on loans of the size I'm getting, I've only heard of non-recourse debt being used on large multis (75+ units).

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes
    7y

    @Ron Beebe If you want to scale at any reasonable rate, you certainly need to utilize leverage when purchasing properties. I have a goal of achieving $12,500/mo in passive income by my 28th birthday (5 years after I graduated college). As for units, it would be 100 - considering I average $125/mo in cash flow across my portfolio right now. If I maintain this pace and the market agrees with me, I should be able to reach that number.

  • Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Mark M. I did both and is the best move I've made yet. I don't miss the Bay Area at all.... although I'm not a native. It was a great area when I first moved in 2013. It has progressively gotten worse year over year and that's part of the reason US citizens are fleeing California in record numbers... which makes an even stronger statement for investing in secondary and tertiary markets.

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes
    7y

    @Alex Kamunyo Congratulations on getting that first deal done, it's always the hardest! As for where I've found my deals, I've bought a couple properties direct from the seller off of Craigslist ads, one off the MLS, two from direct mail (I sent a couple mailings to non-corporate owned 3+ unit multis in a couple of zip codes), and a couple off of referrals from the guy that does my junk hauling! I've found that referrals from service providers (junk haulers, electricians, plumbers, property managers) are a great source of deals.

  • Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2016 · 245 posts · 436 votes
    7y

    @Alex Kamunyo Also, I bought my first property in February 2016 - so in just under 3 years. 

    @Scott Fromowtiz That's what I'm being told by those I know who live out there!

    @David Smith This deal is actually at a much lower price point than most of the multis in the Manchester, NH area. In my market and specifically the zip codes I invest in, multis typically trade at $75k-100k/unit. I have a local property manager who looks after all my properties. 

  • NJ · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 7 votes
    7y

    @Axel Ragnarsson awesome success story! Since you mention networking with private money lenders and you being only 24, I was wondering have you ever ran into the problem of a private money lender not taking you seriously due to your age? I have run into this a few times and was looking on ideas of how to overcome this besides the obvious of having an absolute home run deal and great presentation.

  • Rental Property Investor · NJ/PA · Member since 2016 · 555 posts · 149 votes
    7y

    How much do you pay property manager? 10% of rent?    What do they do for you?    



    Originally posted by @Axel Ragnarsson:

    @Alex Kamunyo Also, I bought my first property in February 2016 - so in just under 3 years. 

    @Scott Fromowtiz That's what I'm being told by those I know who live out there!

    @David Smith This deal is actually at a much lower price point than most of the multis in the Manchester, NH area. In my market and specifically the zip codes I invest in, multis typically trade at $75k-100k/unit. I have a local property manager who looks after all my properties. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Merritt Island, FL · Member since 2017 · 974 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Mark M. - if you're making that kind of money, then RE might be your ticket to retiring. Keep reading BP and listening to podcasts. Near 7-figure income makes it easier for you to skip over small units and go big. Go in on a 300+ and you can surf/climb 7 days a week. 

  • Mack BensonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Woodbury, MN · Member since 2018 · 299 posts · 299 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson awesome! Thank you for sharing, keep it up!
  • Member since 2018 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Hey Alex, I am in Ma. Just to be clear, your saying you can get a loan with equity in a current property? I have a condo in Florida with maybe 30-50 in equity. I have very little cash maybe 5-10k. doing a traditional loan do you think I can get approved using that equity? Also, does an fha loan only apply to first time home buyers? I found your post very informative, thank you.

  • Investor · Mason, MI · Member since 2014 · 151 posts · 152 votes
    7y

    Alex, you are certainly killing it! Congratulations!  I choose not to invest as you do only because I prefer cash flow and I only buy properties.  I never sell them. I have used private money for down payments but quickly paid off the investors to get them out of the deal after two years.  Being a Michigan investor has taught me that cash flow is king, appreciation is a surprise and equity is meant to leverage for more purchases! Best of luck to you!

  • Contractor · Bessemer, AL · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    Hi Axel, 

    Way to go 25 units at any age is a job well done! I would like to add a cautionary note. You would have been around 10 years old in 2007. If we take a haircut like that again, will you be able to weather the storm? I'd like to know more about your 'exit strategy' if across the board your properties fell substantially in value and in short order.  

    I'm not a doom and gloom guy but those years 07-09 proved the old adage, "Cash is King." One of my contractor buddies with many rentals in the San Joaquin Valley lost 2 million on paper in just a few months. Sure he chewed on his fingernails but he could pay all his mortgages because he was in a positive cash flow position overall. When things began to turn around he bought more units. Today he's 70 in great health and blessed. You've got a lot of good years ahead of you. Don't buy into, 'you gotta crush it everyday BS,' the tortoise wins the race.
     

    Again, I applaud your accomplishments!  

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 8 votes
    7y
    @Axel Ragnarsson Way to go! I’m 28 & just getting started in real estate - you are an inspiration!
  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Axel Ragnarsson, thanks for sharing and good luck on your future success! 

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