Second Fourplex - 14 days after our first property.

Second Fourplex - 14 days after our first property.

Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 140 votes

Investment Info:

Small multi-family (2-4 units) buy & hold investment in Machesney Park.

Purchase price: $240,000
Cash invested: $63,500

Contributors:
Tara Shedden

Self-managed fourplex; landlord pays water, sewer, trash, landscaping, snow removal.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

This was the second property we purchased; closing just 14 days after our first property.

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

It was listed at $250,000 and the owners were selling another fourplex on the same street. We offered $240,000 each for both.

How did you finance this deal?

5-year loan with a balloon payment at 5.555%, 25% down.

How did you add value to the deal?

It was our first deal and has cashed-flowed since day one. It is also gave us experience with property management.

What was the outcome?

We are still cash-flowing and looking to scale our business.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

We attempted to renovate a vacant unit. But it took too long and cost too much. We would have been better off just renting as is and getting a bit less in rent. However, it was an invaluable learning experience. I would love to post that everything went awesome... but that wouldn't really benefit anybody.

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

We worked with the owner of Key Realty, John Murray on this deal. He was instrumental in getting us to jump into real estate investing.

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Crystal Lake, IL · Member since 2014 · 5 posts · 30 votes
7y

Why a 5 year balloon loan?  What's your plan down the road?

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 325 posts · 253 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden Congratulations on your progress. What part of Chicago did you invest in? Just curious because I didn’t know how well Chicago is for landlords.

  • Architect · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 843 posts · 907 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicole Flakes:
    Originally posted by @Nik Moushon:

    @Anthony Wick
    @Nicole Flakes
    @Matthew Brown

    When I was first commenting in this thread neither him buying it through an LLC or him being forced to use a commercial loan (bc of the LLC) had been mentioned. So when someone brings up that they have a 5.5% 5yr balloon loan on a 2-4 plex....ya that brings up suspions as to why. Because a 2-4plex still fits under a tradtional loan definition. Him buying it through an LLC doesnt allow that BUT, again, when I first brought it up that was my thinking. I was never trying to compare a commercial loan to a tradtional residential loan.

    As an investor that has seen this type of financing again and again, I automatically knew that it was a commercial loan. The 25% down was the biggest indicator as well as the OP signature line states that he represents an LLC. For me it's not that you asked the question but the negative tone toward the OP, especially without having all of the facts. On these forums we need to build each other up or people will be hesitant to share their stories.

     First off I'm glad you have the experience to spot it but I obviously didnt. Thats why I asked. And I realized I didn't have all the facts and i mentioned that in my post:

    "Maybe it will make sense once the OP explains his thinking. But from my perspective right now the financing is suspect to me.

    EDIT: Since posting the OP has replied. He has a plan. Not something I would personally pursue but at least he has a plan to refi. If your numbers work with this then more power to you. Best of luck."

    Secondly, I find it funny that you try to call me out on tone when I had no tone and was respectful in all my questioning. The OP was very nice to explain things me. He left out two very key pieces of information that, unless you are an experience investor that does a lot of commercial loans, you were left scratching your head. That was pretty obvious since I was not the only one questioning his finance strategy. Especially since this is only his second rental. Most people that new to REI don't use commercial loans for this small of residential properties.

    Thirdly, its comments like yours, telling people to watch their tone on a forum where its nearly impossibly to tell what the tone is unless it blatantly obvious, that make people more likely not to comment than me questioning a finance strategy that was lacking some key piece of information.

  • Richard CompianPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden

    Congrats on taking Action Robert! From zero to 8 units in a few weeks is great!! I also live in Machesney Park, have seen allot of those 4 units. Think it’s a good area that will grow allot over the coming years. Keep it up!

  • Nicole FlakesPro Member
    Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2014 · 23 posts · 22 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nik Moushon:
    Originally posted by @Nicole Flakes:
    Originally posted by @Nik Moushon:

    @Anthony Wick
    @Nicole Flakes
    @Matthew Brown

    When I was first commenting in this thread neither him buying it through an LLC or him being forced to use a commercial loan (bc of the LLC) had been mentioned. So when someone brings up that they have a 5.5% 5yr balloon loan on a 2-4 plex....ya that brings up suspions as to why. Because a 2-4plex still fits under a tradtional loan definition. Him buying it through an LLC doesnt allow that BUT, again, when I first brought it up that was my thinking. I was never trying to compare a commercial loan to a tradtional residential loan.

    As an investor that has seen this type of financing again and again, I automatically knew that it was a commercial loan. The 25% down was the biggest indicator as well as the OP signature line states that he represents an LLC. For me it's not that you asked the question but the negative tone toward the OP, especially without having all of the facts. On these forums we need to build each other up or people will be hesitant to share their stories.

     First off I'm glad you have the experience to spot it but I obviously didnt. Thats why I asked. And I realized I didn't have all the facts and i mentioned that in my post:

    "Maybe it will make sense once the OP explains his thinking. But from my perspective right now the financing is suspect to me.

    EDIT: Since posting the OP has replied. He has a plan. Not something I would personally pursue but at least he has a plan to refi. If your numbers work with this then more power to you. Best of luck."

    Secondly, I find it funny that you try to call me out on tone when I had no tone and was respectful in all my questioning. The OP was very nice to explain things me. He left out two very key pieces of information that, unless you are an experience investor that does a lot of commercial loans, you were left scratching your head. That was pretty obvious since I was not the only one questioning his finance strategy. Especially since this is only his second rental. Most people that new to REI don't use commercial loans for this small of residential properties.

    Thirdly, its comments like yours, telling people to watch their tone on a forum where its nearly impossibly to tell what the tone is unless it blatantly obvious, that make people more likely not to comment than me questioning a finance strategy that was lacking some key piece of information.

     Mr. Nik, I will stand by my statement and practice what I preach: 

    "We should build each other up and not tear one another down." 

    So with that I  wish you peace and much luck.  

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nicole Flakes:

     Mr. Nik, I will stand by my statement and practice what I preach: 

    "We should build each other up and not tear one another down." 

    So with that I  wish you peace and much luck.  

     Nothing in what Nik posted rang disrespect. All were valid questions. If you want to be coddled, just call Morris Invest ....(it's a joke, do not do that). 

    Good job, OP! If the funds were truly a gift, then you're already making infinite returns :)

  • Poughkeepsie, NY · Member since 2019 · 28 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden congratulations!

    We are in a similar situation. We bought our duplex under LLC so we don't qualify for Fannie loans either. We bought in cash and refinanced to pull cash out. We dealt with a local credit union and got a 10yr fix with 25 year amortization and balloon payment at 10 yr. You can always refinance later. So what if you pay extra 0.25-0.5%? I consider that my premium in building a relationship with the local loan officer for a more favorable deal in the future, because I know I will be doing A LOT of deals. In worse case scenario, you learned your lesson and move on. Again, congrats!

  • Superior, WI · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden congratulations on getting started! Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Kansas City · Member since 2014 · 36 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    Congrats!!  My wife is from Rockford and her parents now live in Machesney Park.  We thought about investing there once but the property taxes are pretty outrageous. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 83 votes
    7y

    @Jeremy Sharp- You're correct. I just spoke with my RE Lawyer and he said the same. As long as you make your payments you shouldn't need to worry. 

    Of course assuming there is nothing done illegal on the owner's end, a good umbrella policy should cover any liabilities. Personally, I also maintain a certain level of leverage for asset protection (ie. get sued-->forced to sell @ 10-15% market discount, 6% agent fees, not much meat left on the bone @ 75-80% LTV)

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 140 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dan Torluemke:

    Congrats!!  My wife is from Rockford and her parents now live in Machesney Park.  We thought about investing there once but the property taxes are pretty outrageous. 

    You are right; the property tax in Illinois is absolutely outrageous! The property tax for this fourplex is $8,277 annually. That also brings up a great point... There are 11 identicle fourplexes on the same street. The two that we purchased are in the top three as far as property taxes are concerned. We plan to protest the tax next year to bring down our expenses.

  • Jeremy SharpPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    @Chris Virgil-Stone great thanks for the confirmation. I actually just used this same process to secure a HELOC with a local bank on another property as well to secure the funding to buy the house. The local bank forced me to do a commercial HELOC with less favorable rates if it was in the LLC but would allow me to do a HELOC on a rental property if it was in my personal name. So a quit claim deed allowed that to happen. Originally they told me they would give 80%LTV +0.25 prime but once they found out it was multiple units they said 65%LTV was the best they could do. A quick call saying I was out if they couldn't do the 80% that they promised up-front and another call to the bank VP and in 5min they agreed to 80%LTV (thank you local banks)! The payback amount is 1.5% of the loan amount / month which is higher than a principle residence but in the end it forces me to pay down the principle faster...makes cash flow more tight but allows the HELOC money to be put back in use quicker.

    @Robert Shedden great job jumping in...it took me 6 years to build up the equity and the knowledge to buy my next property "correctly"...surround yourself with a great team and you'll be on your way!

  • Rental Property Investor · RI · Member since 2018 · 24 posts · 9 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden congrats on the second property. Out of curiosity, was it your intention to purchase two properties so close in time frame? What contingencies did you have set up for this? Thanks in advance!

  • Real Estate Investor · Waldorf, MD · Member since 2014 · 592 posts · 320 votes
    7y

    BP is crazy at times!!! The beginning of this thread it went from “Oh, why would you do a ballon...blah blah...that’s stupid” to “congratulations, great job...you are a genius” then back to something else. It seems that it only take one person to switch the conversation from negative to positive and then back negative or neutral. It seems to only take 1 or 2 people to change the conversation direction.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 140 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Brian Olencki:

    @Robert Shedden congrats on the second property. Out of curiosity, was it your intention to purchase two properties so close in time frame? What contingencies did you have set up for this? Thanks in advance!

    Yes, we purchased both fourplexes from the same owner and got them under contract at the same time. The first fourplex was financed with a portfolio lender so we could close that one in 2018 (I say "portfolio," although their rates felt more like hard money, LOL). We went with a local bank to finance this deal because we had more time; closing in 2019. It will be interesting to see which loan will work out better for our situation as we move forward. I was able to find this local bank because I asked @Craig Wilcox, the host of my local REI club, Winnebago Investors Network (WIN), if he knew of any financing options other than Fannie or Freddie. He had heard good things about the local bank and suggested I give them a call about a commercial loan. At the time, I thought I wouldn't even be able to find financing, but I pushed forward and was able to find a solution. It always pays to network with and learn from other local investors!

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 140 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    BP is crazy at times!!! The beginning of this thread it went from “Oh, why would you do a ballon...blah blah...that’s stupid” to “congratulations, great job...you are a genius” then back to something else. It seems that it only take one person to switch the conversation from negative to positive and then back negative or neutral. It seems to only take 1 or 2 people to change the conversation direction.

    Ha! I am no genius... I just happened to find BP and read Rich Dad, Poor Dad in July of 2018... and it shifted my mindset. Because of BP, my wife and I were able to get 8 doors by January of 2019. I found myself waaay outside of my comfort zone asking a family member for load to purchase two fourplexes. (They thought I was crazy!) I would never have done this had I not been reading the forums and listening to the podcasts. I truly stopped thinking "I can't do that," and started asking "how CAN I do that?" I just posted my deal, however imperfect it is, and hope others can learn something or get motivated.  I am grateful for the discussion we are having.

    You will never know what you are capable of, if you don't try!

  • Investor · Troy, NY · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden

    Way to go! Taking action is the ONLY to go. I too have an accepted offer on a 4plex. Inspection is Saturday. I also just came across another 4plex in the same area that is cashflowing just over $1000 after all operating costs. I am trying to figure out how to swing the second one too.

    I am also going with a commercial loan @ 5.5% only, 20% down, 25 year amortization and 5 year balloon payment.

    Did you acquire tenants with both units?

    I wish you success!

  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, NE · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    People people, it’s obvious they will refi before the 5 years are up. My question is why the 25% unless it’s seller financing. Which my guess it is. In that case they will refi with a bank. The owner wanted a larger down payment. I would say 5.55% is a pretty good rate for both parties. I just purchased a single family home with a traditional lender at 5.25%. So I would take that deal all day long. If it’s 4 units it better be cash flowing at least $400 for each building for it to be worth it for me. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, NE · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alex Witte:

    Way to go Robert! You shouldn't have an issue refinancing before the balloon. 

    I took a different route to get started. I used my personal credit to get better rates (4%, 4.25% and 5%) on my initial properties. I liked the fact that I got 2 - 30 year fixed mortgages and 2 - 5/1 ARMs. 

    I am now looking to get into larger properties (my portfolio is duplexes and SFH) so I can utilize the commercial loan side. I want to start building that relationship with a portfolio lender to grow my business.

    Sorry to digress. Bottom line. Way to go on taking action! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Fremont, NE · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Milwaukee? You can get good deals in Milwaukee?

  • Rental Property Investor · Oswego, IL · Member since 2019 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden - Congratulations!  Your story has inspired me to double down on my efforts to get my first property acquired!

  • Rental Property Investor · Caledonia, IL · Member since 2015 · 289 posts · 213 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Robert Shedden:
    Originally posted by @Nik Moushon:

    I'll have to be another person wonder why in the world would you do a balloon payment on a small MF, especially on after 5 years. The interest rate isnt even good. On top of doing a 25% DP.

    We went with a commercial loan from a local bank. The down payment was a gift from a family member and we purchased it using our LLC. This was our second purchase in our real estate investing journey. It is not a home run deal, but it did get us in the game. Now we are cash flowing, getting invaluable experience managing 8 units, and on the hunt for a BRRRR deal. If I had to do it again, I would have changed a few things... but at least I didn't suffer from analysis paralysis. I have spoken to a few local investors and they have congratulated me on jumping in. They know several other folks that have been talking about pulling the trigger for years, but have never actually went through with it...

    Congrats Robert and welcome to the game. If you have not heard we have a monthly meetup at Sams on riverside first Monday of every month @ 6 pm - just ask for Bigger Pockets group. I would love to have you join us this month. Good for you for jumping in and getting started. No such thing as the perfect deal just deals seeking perfection IMHO. PM if I can help or you want to meetup for lunch sometime , again congrats love this biz!

  • Rental Property Investor · Caledonia, IL · Member since 2015 · 289 posts · 213 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:

    @Nik Moushon

    I'd like to hear where these great loans are that you speak of. Non owner occupied, less than 5%, 30 year amortization, purchased in an LLC. I'm looking and will gladly take such offers.

    Personally I have an offer on the table as we speak for 4.41% 5 year ballon commercial loan LMK if you want further details - Yes LLC - yes personal guarantees / New construction so I'm doing 20 year amort Lender will allow 25 just my preference. Closing several duplex loans each for 230k for a total of nearly 2M .

  • Property Manager · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    7y

    @Robert Shedden way to jump in with both feet! What were the terms of the gifted capital from family for the down-payment? Looking forward to see your future deals as well.

  • Manmath D.Pro Member
    Investor · Spokane, WA · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    Congratulations @Robert Shedden currently I’m saving as much as I can and looking at small MF. Goal is to get around $100k in savings and in the mean while learn as much as possible while looking for a deal here in WA. Stories like this inspire me and push me every day to learn this business. 👍

  • Rental Property Investor · FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 14 votes
    7y

    Good luck Robert , I own property near you and it"s  a high demand area,

    near schools and shopping. Almost bought the property next to yours. The only negative are the high taxes  that we pay in Illinois.

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