California is at it again.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 184 posts · 182 votes
California is at it again.
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Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes
3yI’m amazed how casual LL’s are about this sort of thing, be it moratoriums, or now this. We’re not supposed to be too political on these forums, but frankly if we don’t get political there will be no Bigger Pockets some day; Government will be the only LL in town as they keep exerting more and more control over the populous via intentional dependency.
Sure that’s extreme in the moment, but the notion of not being allowed to do background checks was pretty well unheard of not long ago. Now you’re hearing of it all over the country. It doesn’t take long. Inflation only makes programs like section 8 more and more common. Do we really want the government as our business partner? Cause that goes so well…
If anything Bigger Pockets should consider spearheading a lobbyist outfit, as much as I hate the very notion of lobbying. But you know the saying; If you can’t beat em, sometimes you have to join em sadly. The longer we just shrug and act like we’re immune to all this nonsense because it’s local or because there are workarounds, the sooner this industry hits a wall and the concept of renting will by default go through a government application.
55 Replies
- Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
I owned an Oakland property (a condo) and sold it. My Bay Area investor friends tried to convince me to keep it, you know for that California appreciation. It was in a great location near restaurants, shops, public transportation with great walk score. My method of trying to acquire more rental property in the Bay Area was to buy it as a primary residence live in it for a few years then rent it out. After talking to Oakland landlords who had non-paying renters squat in their properties for months on top of the can't discriminate against people with criminal backgrounds law, I decided to cut my losses.
I'm taking the proceeds from the sale and I'm looking at the Midwest and possibly Tennessee where it's landlord friendly. I have two other rentals in the Bay Area but I'm not buying anymore in California at these price points. Lesson learned: don't buy in Oakland or Berkeley.
There were 25 special assessments on my Oakland property tax bill, the "crime prevention tax" being the most ridiculous one - the renters love to vote on property tax increases since they think all homeowners and landlords are billionaires. These laws and special assessments are going to really hurt small time LLs especially many elderly people who are renting out their properties to supplement their retirement income.
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
Quote from @Becca F.:
I owned an Oakland property (a condo) and sold it. My Bay Area investor friends tried to convince me to keep it, you know for that California appreciation. It was in a great location near restaurants, shops, public transportation with great walk score. My method of trying to acquire more rental property in the Bay Area was to buy it as a primary residence live in it for a few years then rent it out. After talking to Oakland landlords who had non-paying renters squat in their properties for months on top of the can't discriminate against people with criminal backgrounds law, I decided to cut my losses.
You should sell it, bay area cap rate is already hitting a ceiling wall anyway. Slow appreciation is only possible in East Bay after 680 and South Bay, where the madness is not that bad. These are the last area where normalcy still exists.
SF is going into Detroit Tech style.
Sorry for your squatter issue, I had a problem also in some of my rehabs, had to call 911 a few times and kick the squatter really LOL
CA have a law that it's fine now for petty crime and shoplifting is the new normal.
A week ago I saw an almost a dead man falling on the floor of panda express and people just ignore LOL it's total insanity. - Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
I left California in 2020 because I saw where it was going with high taxes and stupid policies... and it's only gotten worse.
I agree with @David S. 100% and would not only love to see BP lobby nationally but I would also challenge each and everyone who reads this to lobby his or her own local government to create and improve landlord-friendly laws (and strike down/cut back anti-landlord laws).
We need to go on the offensive and not simply wait until stupid tenant-friendly laws are about to pass before we do anything. If we all work to get more landlord-friendly laws in our areas it will make a difference. Many of us have local real estate met-ups and/or local Real Estate Associations and we need to bring this up at the meetings and create committees within those groups so it's worked on.
- Contractor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2021 · 82 posts · 35 votes3y
@Danny Polanski does it really matter if someone has a criminal background if they have a quality employer and solid income? Your history doesnt have anything to do with how you choose to live in the present. And you would likely not consider a low income tenant with debt regardless even if they had a clean background check. Its kind stupid that you all are sqwacking like lame ducks over this. Just grow up some. Lime the NJ guy said. Business continues. Nothing changes maybe just your negative attitudes. And yes I do have a criminal background and Im a landlord too and all of my contractors are excons too. The best! 😂
- Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 29 votes3y
I don't think we should get too worked up about this. For those landlords that are experienced it will allow us to raise rents as new landlords will opt for other investments due to the vast amount of regulations/restrictions being imposed. There was actually a study that I heard on NPR and they were discussing the direct correlation between ordinances to "protect" renters and increasing rents.
- Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 29 votes3y
Quote from @Paul Meyer:
@Danny Polanski does it really matter if someone has a criminal background if they have a quality employer and solid income? Your history doesnt have anything to do with how you choose to live in the present. And you would likely not consider a low income tenant with debt regardless even if they had a clean background check. Its kind stupid that you all are sqwacking like lame ducks over this. Just grow up some. Lime the NJ guy said. Business continues. Nothing changes maybe just your negative attitudes. And yes I do have a criminal background and Im a landlord too and all of my contractors are excons too. The best! 😂
Not true, you could have something like a sex offender with a good paying job. Not all criminals commit financial based crimes.
- Member since 2020 · 671 posts · 937 votes3y
"Your history doesnt have anything to do with how you choose to live in the present."
I'm glad that you've apparently turned your life around or whatever, but this statement is ridiculous. People can change, but that becomes part of their history. People that don't change will absolutely act the same way - good or bad.
Regardless, why shouldn't I have the ability to make an informed decision? Perhaps I want to reward people that have never been convicted felons. Maybe I want to limit exposure to people that might make rash or poor decisions. Why shouldn't that be my right?
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Paul Meyer:
does it really matter if someone has a criminal background if they have a quality employer and solid income? Your history doesnt have anything to do with how you choose to live in the present.
Did you read your question? Of course it matters. I.E. someone who would kill another person still has that ability (that most of us do not possess except in cases of self defense). Same for sexual offenders, Etc... Give these people more chances if you want, but not for me....
- Rental Property Investor · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes3y
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @Becca F.:
I owned an Oakland property (a condo) and sold it. My Bay Area investor friends tried to convince me to keep it, you know for that California appreciation. It was in a great location near restaurants, shops, public transportation with great walk score. My method of trying to acquire more rental property in the Bay Area was to buy it as a primary residence live in it for a few years then rent it out. After talking to Oakland landlords who had non-paying renters squat in their properties for months on top of the can't discriminate against people with criminal backgrounds law, I decided to cut my losses.
You should sell it, bay area cap rate is already hitting a ceiling wall anyway. Slow appreciation is only possible in East Bay after 680 and South Bay, where the madness is not that bad. These are the last area where normalcy still exists.
SF is going into Detroit Tech style.
Sorry for your squatter issue, I had a problem also in some of my rehabs, had to call 911 a few times and kick the squatter really LOL
CA have a law that it's fine now for petty crime and shoplifting is the new normal.
A week ago I saw an almost a dead man falling on the floor of panda express and people just ignore LOL it's total insanity.I sold the condo. It says that in the first sentence in my post. I didn't have a squatter issue - that was with the other landlords I talked to.
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesYep that's what the blues don't get......🙄
Quote from @David Mirza:
There was actually a study that I heard on NPR and they were discussing the direct correlation between ordinances to "protect" renters and increasing rents.
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
@Becca F. You done good...
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Paul Meyer:
does it really matter if someone has a criminal background if they have a quality employer and solid income? Your history doesnt have anything to do with how you choose to live in the present.
Did you read your question? Of course it matters. I.E. someone who would kill another person still has that ability (that most of us do not possess except in cases of self defense). Same for sexual offenders, Etc... Give these people more chances if you want, but not for me....
extreme-equality and extreme-tolerance , a story like this is everyday news these days.
all these berkeley/antioch/San Francisco is the epicenter of radical madness way of thinking. You can't even use a certain words, based on Stanford study LOL - Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 81 posts · 81 votes3y
@Danny Polanski
I see this having a couple effects n the long term. Number one it will force the middle to high middle to class to move to up scale areas but in order to afford the area they will have to downsize their home potentially having to live in a luxury apartment versus a SFR. Number two I see this creating a much great gap between the upper class and lower class. Landlords/investors will focus more on A class neighborhoods abandoning B class and lower in order to get around the background check. I would go out on a limb to say most ex cons cannot afford A class neighborhoods therefore the higher the rent, no need for a background check.
I believe this idea is dangerous and is just another form of virtue signaling by a select few. Hopefully state and local governments across the country ban this from happening.
I believe in second chances but I also believe in my right as a landlord to know what kind of background someone has if they want to live in my property. If I rent to a former murder and then he goes and does it again in my property, I bet I’ll be on the hook. Extreme, yes. But a fair thought as well.
- 3yDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
@Danny Polanski incorrect.
Many states & cities are passing these laws and they only require a landlord NOT to require criminal histories on rental applications.
A landlord is still free to do background check and ask about any criminal issues they find AFTER receiving the application.
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews - Realtor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 318 posts · 154 votes3y
Quote from @David S.:
I’m amazed how casual LL’s are about this sort of thing, be it moratoriums, or now this. We’re not supposed to be too political on these forums, but frankly if we don’t get political there will be no Bigger Pockets some day; Government will be the only LL in town as they keep exerting more and more control over the populous via intentional dependency.
Sure that’s extreme in the moment, but the notion of not being allowed to do background checks was pretty well unheard of not long ago. Now you’re hearing of it all over the country. It doesn’t take long. Inflation only makes programs like section 8 more and more common. Do we really want the government as our business partner? Cause that goes so well…If anything Bigger Pockets should consider spearheading a lobbyist outfit, as much as I hate the very notion of lobbying. But you know the saying; If you can’t beat em, sometimes you have to join em sadly. The longer we just shrug and act like we’re immune to all this nonsense because it’s local or because there are workarounds, the sooner this industry hits a wall and the concept of renting will by default go through a government application.
I definitely believe background checks should be allowed, but on the grander scale isn't there a reason market segmentation exisits? What happens if SF and Oakland instantly clean up their acts and become cities where only A class or B class citizens can live. The thousands of people would have to go somewhere and it wouldn't be pretty.
There are people on the ground in cities like Oakland that are fighting current BS policies like the moratorium, but ultimately other ideas need to come forward and be executed in order to balance out the housing situation. I would love to start with less convoluted legislation. So many new laws are proposed every year, duplicative overlapping, and ridiculously confusing. The government often doesn't understand how to operate the new laws and policies. Hence **** show.
Maybe some lobbying would be good @David S.
- Rental Property Investor · Larkspur, CO · Member since 2018 · 198 posts · 179 votes3y
The irony in all of this is that the counties/cities making these laws still check for criminal backgrounds when they themselves hire. That's a hard fact. Perhaps we should ask them why... I bet you just about every reason they spout is applicable and relevant to a LL as well, and rightfully so.
The hypocrisy of these people is astonishing, and in turn their arrogance.
I do think people change and absolutely deserve a second chance. I'm a bible thumper... I believe in forgiveness, but at the same time I believe in consequences and being wise with your funds/assets as a LL. These have to be blended, but I don't think the government forcing such laws on LL's is the correct way of going about this. If a church or a non-profit wants to start a housing program for ex cons, great. That's the more suitable approach here. Let the government incentivize that rather than force every LL to be part of the solution to another man's self created problems, especially those up and starting LL's who now won't venture into the business because the risks are higher than ever. Now one man's error is, as always, another man's problem.
- 3yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
First...go read the actual ordinance.... its not nearly as restrictive about running background checks as all the right leaning media portrays it.....go look at it yourself.
As a LL, do I want to be able to run any background check I want? HELL YES...... as a LL in CA do I run them and use them in my screening... HELL YES...do I want to keep using them.... HELL YES. Do I want convicted criminal in my units? Depends on the when/what related to the crime. Some are deal breakers, so yes I want to be able to check criminal backgrounds
But the question I pose all of you..... so what is the solution for housing for people that have a criminal history? So as someone with a criminal history, where do you live? Is the state or federal government supposed to provide it? Make them all homeless?
And before you reply with "you did the crime, deal with the consequences"..... grow up and get real....
I see a lot of people up in arms about these issues (especially about homeless issues) but all they want to do is rant and rave... they NEVER offer a reasonable alternative solution.....all they do is scream "get a job you bum". These issues are complex and don't have easy solutions
I'm all ears for how you propose for people with criminal records to find housing.....lets hear it.... I dont have an easy fix, so maybe all you your do.....
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Ned J.:
But the question I pose all of you..... so what is the solution for housing for people that have a criminal history? So as someone with a criminal history, where do you live? Is the state or federal government supposed to provide it? Make them all homeless?
So you're saying that a law like this - that even somewhat restricts landlords doing background checks - is necessary to provide housing for criminals?
We have not had a problem throughout the years with released criminals find a place to live. They may have to accept a lesser quality of housing, or they may have to pay more, they may get a crappy landlord, or they may need Govt assistance.....but they usually find housing.
But this is really besides the point. You missed it. The point is that the Govt should not have the right to restrict a property owner's right to exercise due diligence regarding their property. Regardless of how it affects a certain group of people.
And yes, sorry to upset you, but sometimes a person's mistakes will follow them for the rest of their lives. That's just the way it is.
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
why do you want a normal solution for drug addicts that use meth daily?
- 3yJohn MorganPro MemberRental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
And CA wonders why investors leave the state to go invest elsewhere. How will this lower rent out there if they keep losing investors?
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes3y
Quote from @John Morgan:
And CA wonders why investors leave the state to go invest elsewhere. How will this lower rent out there if they keep losing investors?
They don't realize the CA becomes "rich" because of the engineers.
And engineers do not like politics and most of us are actually more into "traditional lifestyle". Most engineers do not have an "extreme liberal" lifestyle and thought.
If there are more companies willing to move their HQ with their engineers from CA to somewhere that's more (rationale in their thinking) and better options, then CA would become the new Detroit after a few decades.
Somehow I like when CA company has slow hiring in CA and just hires a bunch of traditional engineers in India. - 3yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
@Bruce Woodruff....and YOU missed my point..... lets hear a better solution for the dramatic rise in homelessness. No one wants them but they arent just going to magically go away
Do you have a problem with the government having laws for other protected classes?
Id like to see some other productive solutions other than "don't tell me what to do"..... I'm sick of people crying and screaming about some issue but they never have any productive solutions .... just complaints and criticism of how others handle things
This minor restriction in who you can run a background check is just that.... minor ..... way overblown on the impact if you actually read the law rather then the headlines. Criminal background is about #4-5 on my list of screening criteria, so I'm not crazy about it, but its not really going to effect me that much
- 3yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Quote from @Ned J.:
@Bruce Woodruff....and YOU missed my point..... lets hear a better solution for the dramatic rise in homelessness. No one wants them but they arent just going to magically go away
Do you have a problem with the government having laws for other protected classes?
The homeless epidemic is due to the liberal policies, period. They will magically go away as soon as we return to the policies of the past that worked. Tough on crime, no drug use tolerated, no loitering, no vandalism, no public urination, build more jails, tough bail laws, etc, etc, etc...
There ya go, feel better?
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