Who thinks Detroit will turn around within the next 5 years?
Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 40 posts · 5 votes
I've been on BP for a little under a week now, I love this site it's so informative. My question to you guys though is "Do you believe Detroit is making a turn around for the better & Will the change be noticed within the next 5 years???" I've seen too many people bagging on my city it's ridiculous. It bothers me that our city is in this particular situation because we've got sooo many great people who wanna see/make a change here & i'm one of them.
See the agents BiggerPockets members work with in Detroit, MI.
See agentsI have to reject the premise of the question because it asks if "Detroit" will turn around in 5 years. What is "Detroit"?
If you know the city then you know it's the size of Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan combined. It's not one monolithic neighborhood and it never has been.
Some areas clearly have momentum. There are areas where rentals are hard to find, waiting lists abound and landlords with desired properties have increased rents from $1100/mo. to $1500/mo. in one year.
There are other areas that are bad and getting worse. And then there is the urban prarie, the land that was occupied by many of the 2 million people who lived in the city in the 50's, that's now vacant and fallow.
There's not just one story of Detroit, or one future trajectory. Like many cities, Detroit real estate is neighborhood by neighborhood.
We can discuss the city's overall finances, or mass transit, or the local economy and refer to "Detroit" as one entity, but when looking at a "potential turnaround" you better specify the neighborhood or even the cross streets.
A point of interest I have is the State Fair grounds. Just south of 8 mile, just east of woodward. I live on the other side of 8 mile in Ferndale. Any one local, I would urge you to drive down there and take a look. The grounds is the new home to Meijer, and with that came many other bigger stores that have created a little strip mall, all within 1 year. It looks to be a very promising economic development, meant to favor both the city and the few northern sub's of Oak park, Ferndale, Hazel Park, and Warren.
From a real estate standpoint, I am very very curious to see what the economic impact of the mall will have on the State fair ground neighborhood. That is the typical, war zone neighborhood. The image an outside comes up with when they hear "Detroit." I believe if the fair ground neighborhood can somehow revitalize with the Meijer and such coming in, there is great hope for the city. As of now, it is one of the worst neighborhoods, yet has lots going for it. Close to the burbs, new (major) investment, and close to palmer woods, right along 8 mile, close to woodward, 5 minute drive from 696
From a real estate standpoint, I am very very curious to see what the economic impact of the mall will have on the State fair ground neighborhood. That is the typical, war zone neighborhood. The image an outside comes up with when they hear "Detroit." I believe if the fair ground neighborhood can somehow revitalize with the Meijer and such coming in, there is great hope for the city. As of now, it is one of the worst neighborhoods, yet has lots going for it. Close to the burbs, new (major) investment, and close to palmer woods, right along 8 mile, close to woodward, 5 minute drive from 696
That hood is so bad. Like you said its a warzone. I hate going into the place. Its just way to far gone right now for me. Other people might want to give it a try. I would not spend your money there.
Not when I can get houses in south Warren for 20k
I completely agree investing there for SFH's would be shooting yourself in the foot. I do, however, will be curious if that area will see a revitalization over time. A true test if money really does follow money. If someone could secure a LOT of that land, develop it, you would have brand new quality housing next to a shopping center, highways, woodward, downtown Ferndale, royal oak, Detroit. Makings for a hot spot
@Joe Delia Man I wish I would have read your post this morning, I've had a pretty busy day & still was reading this Ultimate Beginners Guide from BP its a great source of information. @Deborah Burian I was lead to believe the southwest area was one of the worst area's especially when it comes to investing.!
I completely agree investing there for SFH's would be shooting yourself in the foot. I do, however, will be curious if that area will see a revitalization over time. A true test if money really does follow money. If someone could secure a LOT of that land, develop it, you would have brand new quality housing next to a shopping center, highways, woodward, downtown Ferndale, royal oak, Detroit. Makings for a hot spot
If the new rail system would make it out all the way into Oakland County that area would be a major transit center for the light rail. Its already a major drop off and pickup area for the bus system. They could build a real nice hub of where the burbs meet the city.
The problem would be how long would you have to hold that property and to pay those crazy taxes for 10 plus years would just be a huge drain on most average people.
Also right across the way is Palmer Park. Crazy how across the street is the best section in all the city and you look across the street to see the worst.
@Chris Clothier No disrespect intended on my behalf it honestly did seem like you were kind of bashing the city though, as far as the other articles go I've only been able to come across 1 & it was sort of similar when it came to you posting about Detroit. All of you guys are vets in the game & I have respect for every last 1 of you especially being fellow BP members. Now I have no clue what you & Joe are going through! Although it seems as though this is an ongoing problem between you 2.
@Carson M. @Scott K. if this area is a "warzone" area would it be a good idea to scope the area out for potential properties to put on my list? I would also like to go across 8mile into Ferndale territory &the other surrounding cities & maybe grab a few properties to wholesale. Are there a lot of investors in these cities Carson?
@Account Closed both of you made posts about staying positive. I originally tried to highlight your post Aaron and commend you for those 3 sentences about a positive attitude and approach. If you believe in what you are doing, then you can have a positive effect on your city. It may be small, but it may also be the most one man and one company can do and that can make all the difference. I have not a clue where Detroit will be in 5, 10 , 15 or 20 years, but I know that Memphis overcame a lot since the 70's and has continued to go up and down over the last decade. Stay positive and just make your little piece happen.
Thank you chris. I will say that even with my drive and motivation, i have my days where it would just be so much easier to give up. This is one reason why i try to share and stay active on here so newbies dont get scared away before they even start.
Let give you how Ferndale was and what it is now. My dad had 2 Duplexes in Ferndale he paid under 40k for each. He rented them out for 20 years had them paid off in full and after he retired he sold them for about 120k each.
Ferndale exploded in value as soon as it became cool to live there. You are from the area so you know what I mean. The hillbillies moved out and the younger gay people moved in and made it a very nice city to live in. They invested in their own properties and made it nice to live there.
It takes people that care how their property looks and it takes a city Gov that knows what it is doing.
I am currently looking for a rental prop in Ferndale right now. I already have a renter if I can find on.
Royal Oak Twp is not Ferndale. They just lump it in with Ferndale since it shares a zip code. You can get dirt cheap junky props in Royal Oak Twp.
@Account Closed , I live and invest in the Southwestern region of the US, not Detroit... I was transferred from Cleveland when I still worked full time and a pretty familiar with the blight issues of the rust belt.
Ohh okay @Deborah Burian
Let give you how Ferndale was and what it is now. My dad had 2 Duplexes in Ferndale he paid under 40k for each. He rented them out for 20 years had them paid off in full and after he retired he sold them for about 120k each.
Ferndale exploded in value as soon as it became cool to live there. You are from the area so you know what I mean. The hillbillies moved out and the younger gay people moved in and made it a very nice city to live in. They invested in their own properties and made it nice to live there.
It takes people that care how their property looks and it takes a city Gov that knows what it is doing.
I am currently looking for a rental prop in Ferndale right now. I already have a renter if I can find on.
Royal Oak Twp is not Ferndale. They just lump it in with Ferndale since it shares a zip code. You can get dirt cheap junky props in Royal Oak Twp.
A fellow BPer is waiting to close on a deal in Ferndale right now. There is some title issues. But hes getting it for under $30K with about $1500 in maintanance needed from what he told me. 3 bed 1 bath i believe.
He actually posted here looking for advice but i do know him personally as well.
Deals are still out there. The only thing holding me back is thatbi ran out of capital and am still working on fixing my credit so hopefully i can start using some financing for deals.
Abd yes there are alot of investors in these areas. But we dont all look for the same criteria.
Let me know if you would like some help. I would like to go check some properties out with you
Five years maybe not. 10 years maybe. 15- 20 years yes.
Detroit was great. It can be great again. The Chinese are buying up those old factories to build cars in America. The geoghraphical advantage for Detroit to make and ship will never go away. Politics will change, deals will be made and Detroit will rise.
To the posts above about Ferndale, I have been studying the market for about a year and a half. I have pretty strict requirements about location within Ferndale. I want to stay out of the Hazel park school district (east of Hilton) not too close to 8 mile (north of Marshall) and at least a few blocks from Oak Park/Royal Oak Township when S of 9. 1-1.5 years ago, I was seeing many good rental deals in the 40-70K range. unfortunately, I found a 5 br home to flip that sucked up a lot of my resources. Since then, prices have really gone up- especially closer to 8 mile and Hazel Park. I am less optimistic about finding a good deal in Ferndale, although I do always keep a tab on the market.
Why do you want to stay out of hazel park SD?
Client bought a house for 63K in that SD in Ferndale last feb, today the latest comp is 110K. She's invested roughly 1K into it since purchase.
If the comps are also hazel park, whats the problem?
It is more of a comfort thing. I am young and have never been a landlord. Ideally, I want to start off in a little nicer area that I know well, maybe a little less risk, and get a feel for things. I have the assumption that tenant quality would be better in the areas I mentioned above, but in all honestly I really do not know. My goal is to buy a house before this summer and get a feel for PM side, and decide if this is something I want to dive into deeper. At that time, if I am willing to take on a bit more tenant management risk, then I will look into expanding my area to cheaper, more working class areas.
In the mean time, I think I am going to try and go to a few rental open houses in a Hazel Park or South Ferndale area and get a sense of the crowd, find out who I may be renting to if I did invest in those areas.
It is more of a comfort thing. I am young and have never been a landlord. Ideally, I want to start off in a little nicer area that I know well, maybe a little less risk, and get a feel for things. I have the assumption that tenant quality would be better in the areas I mentioned above, but in all honestly I really do not know. My goal is to buy a house before this summer and get a feel for PM side, and decide if this is something I want to dive into deeper. At that time, if I am willing to take on a bit more tenant management risk, then I will look into expanding my area to cheaper, more working class areas.
In the mean time, I think I am going to try and go to a few rental open houses in a Hazel Park or South Ferndale area and get a sense of the crowd, find out who I may be renting to if I did invest in those areas.
I have a pretty good grasp of those markets. I fact, I know someone looking to sell in north ferndale, solid price. It's a former rental and i'm sure he'd be open to talking about the tenant base he's had in the area. Call me and we can talk about it
@Joe Delia "If political ideology affects anything, I think it fair to say, it affects a community's stance on crime, taxes and public education. I agree that the ingredients implicit in Detroit's fall are too numerous to consider and are only hypothesis at best. But, someone or something must be held accountable, and if we do not hold the Leadership of Detroit accountable, whom are pawns in a political ideology, then who is responsible?"
I agree. Too many empty promises simply for political gain. There are many other cities skating on thin ice whose leaders employed the same tactics. California, one of the the top most liberal states has four major cities alone who are on the verge of bankruptcy namely, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose and San Francisco. Not to mention other cities such as Philly, Honolulu and Cincinnati. I dare say that if California cities all go bust, it will make Detroit's bankruptcy feel like a 'pin prick' in comparison to the effects it will have on the nation as a whole.
I am cautiously optimistic about Duggan which is the best I will ever say about any politician. Finding a political leader who will genuinely place the interests of their constituents and city ahead of their own political agenda is a rare find indeed.
Key members of our team has lived and worked in Detroit Metro over 15 years. In fact, I believe two of our team are members of the Renegade Investors club.
I did place a new post on the Marketplace regarding Detroit this week and listed three reasons why I believe Detroit is a good investment. I have facts and figures there too but also my own opinion based on what we see going on there.
Joe, I highly respect your opinions and consider you a "straight shooter" who genuinely tries to give a non-biased opinion and does his research. In light of the "Detroit bashing" which is often common here on BP, you're posts and the post of others like you who can see the forest for the trees and dare I say, somewhat optimistic, are a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
Hi Annette, you have great info. I was not aware of those Cali cities on verge of bk. Do you have a source for that near bankruptcy info for LA, SF, SD, SJ?
I thought those cities made many adjustments already.
Thanks,
Matt