Ok, starting to freak out!! Advice would be appreciated!

Marketing Your Property

Ok, starting to freak out!! Advice would be appreciated!

Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes

Ok, I'll try to make this concise. My marketing budget is $1500/mo. Our original plan was: bandit signs, direct mail to absentees and drive for dollars, email blasts, and network with wholesalers. We are a couple months into our marketing and here are our results. DIRECT MAIL: 1 mailer sent to 600 absentees, 1% call response rate, 0 leads. BANDIT SIGNS: I HATE THEM. My conscience has won out, but I have 500 signs that we bought before my conscience got loud enough, I contacted all the cities in our area, determined we could (still gray area) post signs in ground on Fri, remove on Sun. That approach, not surprisingly is not super effective. 1 call/30 signs.

Mail is not more effective, I think, because there are 7 other investors mailing to many of the same addresses (we asked one of the callers). It's actually a really good response, probably, given that competition.

So... here are my questions: 1. can I be a successful investor without bandit signs? 2. Am I wise to dig in deeper with direct mail, continue to mail to the 600, work harder/do more research to obtain more motivated seller lists, ramp up majorly our drive for dollar strategy. 3. What are your thoughts about replacing bandits with 1 large billboard in a very busy location. 4. What would you do, philosophically and practically if you were me.

Our goal, btw, is to be a large investment business, not small, flipping and wholesaling 5-10 properties/month SFR and MFR. We (my hubs and I) have limited experience on the flipping side and extensive experience on the real estate side. Please help, we're floundering!

89 views

Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Sounds like you just got started, Rome wasn't built in a day.

See this reply in the discussion

54 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:

Originally posted by Will Barnard:
also, you should be going after two of the three means for acquisitions. Direct marketing is one and making lots of offers on the MLS is two. Do them both at the same time. When I say lots of offers I mean 100+ each month.

@Will Barnard

What are you saying the 3rd way is?

Trustee sales, but spreads are very thin and competition extremely fierce amongst the sharks in that tank.

Nice catch to ask the question, I intentionally left the third out!
Podcast Guest on Show #130
0 Reply
Shaun Reilly
Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
13y
Originally posted by Will Barnard:

Originally posted by Shaun Reilly:

Originally posted by Will Barnard:
also, you should be going after two of the three means for acquisitions. Direct marketing is one and making lots of offers on the MLS is two. Do them both at the same time. When I say lots of offers I mean 100+ each month.

@Will Barnard

What are you saying the 3rd way is?

Trustee sales, but spreads are very thin and competition extremely fierce amongst the sharks in that tank.

Nice catch to ask the question, I intentionally left the third out!

Yeah actually right after I posted it I was like "Oh I bet he means auctions" but figured I wanted to see what you said in case it was different.

Since we are painting with broad strokes by only having 3 buckets I'd lump tax sales and any other type of absolute or reserve auction in there with the foreclosure ones too.
0 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Karen Margrave Yes, definitely a huge issue as you described. Not only are we new in general to investing, but new to this area. A big reason we moved here from San Jose was that the market was ridiculously fierce there and not nearly as much here, so hopefully that was a good decision. Before getting into investing I had always imagined the hard part would be getting the funding and rehabbing the houses. Hah, what a wake up call this has been!! There's nothing better than being desperate, though, and we are definitely there! We left a well-paying job in CA and have 7 mos living expenses to at least close 1-2 decent deals to get the ball rolling. Thank you for the REALLY good advice, I'm taking it all and applying as much as I can.
0 Reply
Sharon Vornholt
Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox -

Like everyone said, you are just getting started.

Direct mail campaigns are something that you repeat over time. I have written several posts here on BP that have some statistics in them (you can search through my posts).

You will get something like 85% of your deals at or beyond your 5th mailing. That is not to say you won't get a deal before then, but you have to keep mailing to those same folks again and again.

Most people send out a couple of mailings and then throw in the towel. You want to be there when everyone else has quit. And to have only 7 competing companies in an area as big as yours is actually very little competition. When you get the call, learn to "sell yourself" better than the rest.

Another tip is to find out what that "something else" is that they need. It may be moving money, they may want you to clean out the house, they may want something totally different; but there is always some other problem to solve or something else they want or need in addition to the money.

One last thing. The quickest way to learn the different areas is to go out every Sunday to open houses. You will get a real feel for the areas for an expert. We did this every Sunday for a year the first year I had my home inspection company.

Take the agents something like a mug filled with goodies; a teabag, a couple of pieces of chocolate, your business card etc. Tell them you are new to the area and are trying to learn the neighborhoods. Be upfront with them about being a real estate investor. Agents work with investors all the time.

I think you will be amazed at how willing they will be to help, and some of them will become great resources for you. You can also tell them that if they get a really "ugly fixer upper" to give you a call; that you might be interested. You could be the one they call when they have a pocket listing.

Good luck.

Sharon
2 Reply
Ryan Morris
Dothan, AL · Member since 2013 · 2 posts · 0 votes
13y
You have the addresses of 600 absentees, why not start visiting them personally (if this is legal) ? In my experience, people are much more responsive face to face.....
0 Reply
Sharon Vornholt
Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox - are you targeting "out of state" absentee owners. I have found that unless you live in a big state, you need to target these. Folks that live within 3 hours or so of the property just aren't that motivated in my experience. You are looking for people that have a big "pain in the butt" factor with their property.

Sharon
0 Reply
Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
13y

I agree, any auction type can be lumped into that bucket. If you wanted to get very detailed, there are other off market type deals like BK, direct from banks prior to MLS, probates prior to MLS, etc, however, I would also lump those into the direct marketing bucket as each of them require you to market yourself to them in some fashion or form.
Podcast Guest on Show #130
1 Reply
Chris Lipumano
Real Estate Investor · San Diego , CA · Member since 2009 · 23 posts · 1 vote
13y
This is a great thread because of all the incredible responses and encouraging words from experienced and active investors which is a big reason why I visit this site everyday.

I definitely understand your frustration Amanda but its just a part of the business that everyone must go through.

I can tell you that my biggest mistake in direct mail that I finally understand is I failed to set up a monthly budget for it. I have also mailed thousands of batches of postcards and yellow letters but was never consistent with it. The past year I have mailed maybe 5 times and some of the mailings weren't even to the same list of people. This is something you do not want to ever do because its like starting all over again.

Right now for direct mail I am setting up a monthly budget that I will stick too and will be sending out to the same list every 3-4 weeks for the next 7 months. During this time I will make sure to create a database of the calls and will be following up with each and every call I receive. But even if this campaign doesn't work out, I will learn from it tweak it and try again.

I have 50 we buy houses bandit signs that I have no idea what to do with because I decided not to go that route. They'll be collecting dust in my garage until I figure out what to do with them. I do also have 50 blank bandit signs that I will most likely use to market my deals.

"Why am I not successful in this business?" is a question I ask myself every time I get discouraged. I find myself going back to what am I doing to market myself? Who am I marketing to? Are they motivated? How many leads am I receiving a day, week and month? How many sellers am I meeting with? How many offers am I making a day, week and month? Am I following up?

If you have the understanding that its a numbers game and you will have to get through and dig through tons and tons of dirt to get to gold. That it takes consistent and persistent action and understand your "why" of why you want to be successful and know that you're providing a service to people that need help and have problems that need to be solved then you should be just fine =). Just continue to push harder than anyone else and believe in your business than anyone else even if friends and family don't.

Its easy to see that you and your husband are well on your way of achieving your goals in real estate investing just do not give up and keep moving forward.

I have dedicated the past 6 years to learning real estate without a deal closed. I have gotten extremely close and let one slip through my hands but was my own fault because I didn't understand my market enough. You can check my previous posts. Also with the calls I get I am getting more comfortable whether its tire kickers, home owners and agents. I see that I truly enjoy talking real estate and have found out this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Quitting is not an option for me and can see same goes for you too.
0 Reply
Sharon Vornholt
Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
13y
@Chris Lipumano

@Chris Lipumano

@Chris Lipumano

@Chris Lipumano

@Chris Lipumano
3 Reply
Paul Sorgi
Real Estate Investor · Abington, MA · Member since 2011 · 356 posts · 114 votes
13y

@Sharon Vornholt it is the simple ideas like a wall Calendar for mapping out their marketing timeline that help people to succeed thanks for sharing!
0 Reply
Chris Lipumano
Real Estate Investor · San Diego , CA · Member since 2009 · 23 posts · 1 vote
13y
I do have a regular calendar I mark up but a big wall calendar will definitely help better. Thanks Sharon!
0 Reply
Gary Parker
Real Estate Professional · Salt Lake City, UT · Member since 2010 · 609 posts · 163 votes
13y
I really like @Sharon Vornholt suggestion to go to the open houses and take a gift. While you are at it drive the area looking for houses that are run down. Knock on the doors and talk to people. Figure out the best approach to talking with people; dont tell them your house is a piece of junk and I want to buy it. :) Networking and talking with people is great for learning and becomes harder once your business takes off.
1 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Chris Lipumano We are very similar in our journey! One piece of advice we have found to be really helpful is to have 5 marketing strategies, to roll them out well-organized one at a time and to be consistent. I can definitely attest to the fact that it is hard to be consistent when you don't see results, but we gotta keep going. Good luck and keep us posted!!!
0 Reply
Kevin Brown
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 38 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox

ok so theres already like 40 other posts, so I didn't read them all and maybe someone else suggested this already but heres my 2 cents. Trial and error, gotta find what you are good at, and what works for you. Your going to get different types of leads from each different piece of marketing. Personally, I found that Im good at working with probate/ estate properties. For this reason, I scrapped several other forms of marketing and I focus mostly on probates. Ive re written my letter several times, and each time my response rate changes. I am FAR FAR FAR from being a consistently successful investor/ business owner but that said, Im much more consistent and profitable then I was when I started out (almost 2 years ago). I cant say throwing up a billboard is going to hit a home run for you, but I cant say it wont. Try different things, find your niche, and DONT PANIC.
0 Reply
Sharon Vornholt
Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
13y
@Paul Sorgi - You would be amazed at the results you will get over time by using this "calendar strategy". It's simple and it works.

Sharon
0 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Kevin Brown thanks for the input! I think based on what you're saying, we're on a good track. Really encouraging to hear your words a couple of steps ahead of us. We are closely tracking/testing all our marketing strategies and make small tweaks each iteration to try to increase our success rate. I think we need to just keep going and not panic and quit doing something just because it isn't working awesome yet. But freaking out is a natural tendency. :)

@Sharon Vornholt We had started tracking everything on our computer calendars. However, we can DEFINITELY see how having a calendar on the wall in front of us every day is much more effective. I've got the order into Amazon already!
0 Reply
Kevin Brown
Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 38 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox

My goodness, I can tell you about panic. Cant tell you how low Ive been at particular points. But all that does is make it tougher to be successful.
0 Reply
Sharon Vornholt
Goshen, KY · Member since 2009 · 835 posts · 683 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox

@Amanda Fox

@Amanda Fox

@Amanda Fox

@Amanda Fox

@Amanda Fox
0 Reply
Ellis San Jose
Specialist · Westlake Village, CA · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 781 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox I would discourage the billboard, I would have it very low in priority for spendable marketing dollars. It's not targeted.

Focus on the direct mail & walking targeted neighborhoods. Focus on narrow & deep vs wide & shallow marketing.

Good luck, don't panic.
1 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Sharon Vornholt I didn't see the "peek" at the whiteboard. We have one already that we do a lot of brainstorming on, but I would LOVE to see the "peek" to help us maximize our brainstorming/planning sessions. Thank you!!
0 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Ellis San Jose Thanks for the input on the billboard! I kinda love the billboard 'cause it's one big LEGAL street sign. Such a good point, though, on narrow and deep, vs. wide and shallow. I gotta rethink that strategy. We did, incidentally, start driving neighborhoods yesterday and are going to start testing that strategy soon. We just need 1-2 deals in the next several months to keep us going, but it sometimes seems so far away!
0 Reply
Shaun Reilly
Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
13y
My understanding with billboards is that they are expensive. You may get some leads but they will be pretty expensive. You also might not and it will be very expensive. They also will be on some kind of time bound contract so it will be a recurring expense as well.

Non-targeted marketing isn't necessarily bad since that would be all signage, but things like bandit signs are cheap.
0 Reply
Amanda Fox
OP
Professional · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 69 posts · 29 votes
13y
@Shaun ReillyGreat response Shaun! I've already talked to a good billboard company in Denver and we can do a 1 month only program. We may still give it a shot down the road once we've flipped/wholesaled a couple of houses (we will get there one day, right?!) just to test the idea. I'm still pretty curious, but for now we'll focus on direct mail (working on focusing in on better addresses), drive for dollars, street signs (pretty sure we're going to phase this out, the responses have been terrible in our area), email blasts with a referral program, internet marketing, and craigslist. We're still in the mode of rolling out 1 at a time to make sure we're well organized, and tracking really well.

Have you had an easier time in Massachusetts? What are your favorite marketing strategies? Are you able to do this gig full time?
0 Reply
Shaun Reilly
Landlord and Rehabber · Newton, MA · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 877 votes
13y
@Amanda Fox

Yeah I am full time. Between my flipping profits and my rental cash flow I can make a go at it (With my wife still working at this point).

I really have mostly gotten stuff off the MLS and auctions. That hasn't been as plentiful recently and am muddling my way through direct marketing myself as it hasn't been a major part of my business in the past.
0 Reply
Emily Snapp
Pacolet, SC · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 4 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Will Barnard:
also, you should be going after two of the three means for acquisitions. Direct marketing is one and making lots of offers on the MLS is two. Do them both at the same time. When I say lots of offers I mean 100+ each month.

I'm much out of my comfort zone asking a question on this thread (I'm super super new, especially compared to all those here with big, thriving businesses!) But, this is something I'm SO curious about. I'm in South Carolina and offers are expected to be accompanied by Earnest Money. This is not problem to me if I'm just making an offer at a time, and waiting on a decision before offering on another property. But it seems like to do well, that you have to make MANY offers. So how do you handle EMD? Are you willing to have funds tied up every time you make an offer or do you make an offer without it?
0 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.

Log In Join for Free