Just Got hit with a Nearly $500 Tenant Water Bill!

Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes

Philly Landlords,

I am paying the water utility on my East Kensington duplex and just got hit with a $485 water bill (when it averages $112 in the summer)! I sent the plumbers in, and they found a leak in the wall due to missing grout, but no actual pipe leak. In fact, they checked the meters and the water is not running: NO LEAK!

This means that the only explanation is that my tenant(s) are using WAY TOO MUCH WATER!

I was thinking that maybe I should submeter the water so the tenants will have to pay for their own, but unlike other utilities, if the water bill doesn’t get paid in Philly, the city can place a lien on your property, so apparently most landlords prefer to keep the account in their name in case the tenants don’t pay.

Does anyone have any advice? Does anyone on here from Philly submeter?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

This is commonly caused by a toilet that constantly runs or flushes. A running toilet can use hundreds of gallons of water per day.

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Member since 2023 · 20 posts · 12 votes
3y
Quote from @Moon Molson:

Philly Landlords,

I am paying the water utility on my East Kensington duplex and just got hit with a $485 water bill (when it averages $112 in the summer)! I sent the plumbers in, and they found a leak in the wall due to missing grout, but no actual pipe leak. In fact, they checked the meters and the water is not running: NO LEAK!
This means that the only explanation is that my tenant(s) are using WAY TOO MUCH WATER!

I was thinking that maybe I should submeter the water so the tenants will have to pay for their own, but unlike other utilities, if the water bill doesn’t get paid in Philly, the city can place a lien on your property, so apparently most landlords prefer to keep the account in their name in case the tenants don’t pay.

Does anyone have any advice? Does anyone on here from Philly submeter?

MM

Hello Moon,

Consider the pros and cons of submetering water in your duplex.

many landlords keep the water account in their name due to the risk of liens.

Engage with tenants about water conservation and check for leaks before deciding. Consult a local professional for advise.

hope it helps!

cheers
2 Reply
Todd Jones
Member since 2023 · 243 posts · 199 votes
3y
I had a similar experience.
Check/ask to see if they had a pool in their backyard. Also, check to see if the hose/faucet outside is still on.

2 Reply
Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
There HAS to be a leak. When I re-filled our 17,000 gallon pool the water bill was $27. In Las Vegas, in the DESERT!
Have the tenants been there more than a month? I can’t see why they would suddenly use 4x the water. I don’t think even a car wash business where they filled a big tank every day would cost that much?
Did they replace the meter recently where they could have transposed numbers? Did you check the last reading on the bill with the current reading? Are you on track to have another huge invoice? Is there a chance it was longer than usual between meter readings? Do you have automatic landscape watering that could be leaking only when it’s on? How about a toilet slowly leaking in to the bowl and then refilling? (Test with food coloring)

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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Todd Jones:

I had a similar experience.
Check/ask to see if they had a pool in their backyard. Also, check to see if the hose/faucet outside is still on.

Yeah, there’s a backyard faucet that has spray-head water-hose connected. There could be a kiddie pool involved. And thousands of gallons seem to have been used mostly in the last 5 days of June (heat wave?).
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Bill B.:

There HAS to be a leak. When I re-filled our 17,000 gallon pool the water bill was $27. In Las Vegas, in the DESERT!
Have the tenants been there more than a month? I can’t see why they would suddenly use 4x the water. I don’t think even a car wash business where they filled a big tank every day would cost that much?
Did they replace the meter recently where they could have transposed numbers? Did you check the last reading on the bill with the current reading? Are you on track to have another huge invoice? Is there a chance it was longer than usual between meter readings? Do you have automatic landscape watering that could be leaking only when it’s on? How about a toilet slowly leaking in to the bowl and then refilling? (Test with food coloring)

There WAS a leak in the toilet valves in both apartments a few months ago, and that cost me thousands in water bills before I realized it was a serious issue, and the plumber fixed them. Later, I read a forum thread here on BP in which a landlord discussed how he always has a plumber look at toilets as soon as he purchases a new property because every single one has had a costly water leak, and now he just nips them in the bud.
This is why I was so vigilante when I saw the water bill increase from the usual $112 to $485. But the plumbers proved that there is no leak: the water meter wasn’t running when we checked. And when I rechecked the details of the water usage on the bill earlier this evening, it seems water usage spiked in the last five days of June and then returned to normal July 1st. My guess is that this corresponds with the heat wave that we had recently and the return to normal corresponds with the subsequent thunderstorms. No other explanation for the water usage returning to normal 20 days before the bill arrived and we were able to check the meters.

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Moon MolsonPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Bill B.:

There HAS to be a leak. When I re-filled our 17,000 gallon pool the water bill was $27. In Las Vegas, in the DESERT!
Have the tenants been there more than a month? I can’t see why they would suddenly use 4x the water. I don’t think even a car wash business where they filled a big tank every day would cost that much?
Did they replace the meter recently where they could have transposed numbers? Did you check the last reading on the bill with the current reading? Are you on track to have another huge invoice? Is there a chance it was longer than usual between meter readings? Do you have automatic landscape watering that could be leaking only when it’s on? How about a toilet slowly leaking in to the bowl and then refilling? (Test with food coloring)

Or someone could’ve just left the garden hose on for nearly a week. Apparently, it’s been proven that tenants are nowhere near as careful with utilities when they aren’t paying them, which totally makes sense (and an argument for submetering). But which kind of pisses me off about Philadelphia’s ability to put a lien on multifamily properties when water bills go unpaid by tenants. Makes me seriously reconsider investing here.
1 Reply
Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
Look up your cost per gallon. I swear it’s around $1.10 for 1,000 gallons in Vegas. You’re saying they used an extra $350 worth in one week? Like 300,000 gallons? I think a garden hose does about 12gpm. So that’s 25,000 hours of one hose, 3 years. Let’s pretend you’re paying 10x the Las Vegas price. So it’s 2,500 hours. That 100 days. So imagine you’re paying 10x our price, and they had 10 hoses running 24 hours a day. That’s 10 days.

Let us know your cost per 1,000 gallons, and how many gallons they say you used in that 5-7 days.

Ps. You could ask the tenants if they did anything unusual those 5-7 days, but I can’t see what it could be.
Ops. Half of Las Vegas (north Las Vegas) does liens for water sewer and even the private recycling - trash because they handle the billing. As far as I know western 1/2 the valley (las Vegas) only does liens for trash.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
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Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Bill B.:

Look up your cost per gallon. I swear it’s around $1.10 for 1,000 gallons in Vegas. You’re saying they used an extra $350 worth in one week? Like 300,000 gallons? I think a garden hose does about 12gpm. So that’s 25,000 hours of one hose, 3 years. Let’s pretend you’re paying 10x the Las Vegas price. So it’s 2,500 hours. That 100 days. So imagine you’re paying 10x our price, and they had 10 hoses running 24 hours a day. That’s 10 days.

Let us know your cost per 1,000 gallons, and how many gallons they say you used in that 5-7 days.

Ps. You could ask the tenants if they did anything unusual those 5-7 days, but I can’t see what it could be.
Ops. Half of Las Vegas (north Las Vegas) does liens for water sewer and even the private recycling - trash because they handle the billing. As far as I know western 1/2 the valley (las Vegas) only does liens for trash.
There was definitely some heavy (but varied) water use throughout June, going from 100-200 gallons for the first two weeks, then from 500 to 1,500 gallons per day in the third week, then going into 3k to 4.5K gallons in the final week. And here’s something: on June 25th usage nearly hit 4200 gallons, then dropped to almost nothing on June 26th, then jumped back up to 3,500 gallons the very next day. How can that variation be a leak. And to reiterate, usage went back to 100 gallons (maxing at 200) beginning July 1st and continuing until now. It’s actually pretty whacky, and now I’m thinking I need to call the Water Dept tomorrow, even though this is a new build with new meters.
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Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
NP. I just noticed the math error in my conversion from GPM to hours< but 3500 gallons per day seems insane. Hopefully it goes away and this was just a glitch in the matrix. You could research utility bill back systems as they may be much cheaper than a second meter. (RUBS?)
1 Reply
Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
3y
This is commonly caused by a toilet that constantly runs or flushes. A running toilet can use hundreds of gallons of water per day.
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Theresa HarrisPro Member
Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
3y
Did you have a new tenant move in?
After checking that the meter was read correctly, talk to the tenants and let them know the water bill was 4x what it normally was and that you've had a plumber come in to check for a leak and none was found. Ask them if they've noticed any problems or had guests that may explain the increased water usage and that you are just trying to find out what could explain it. If the bill is high for a second month, then talk to them again and let them know.
I think in most places the city can come after the owner if the tenants don't pay the water bill. For my rentals I get the bill and then let the tenants know how much it is and they add it to the rent for the next month. The bills are quarterly, so it isn't a big deal.
1 Reply
Brittany Perkins
Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 16 posts · 5 votes
3y
Good Morning,
This is a situation that no landlord wants to find themselves in, although it can unfortunately happen. In many states, although I’m not familiar with PA, the water and sewer accounts must remain in the property owners name and is typically suggested to avoid any liens on the property, etc.
I would check the verbiage in your tenants lease agreement to see if you are able to charge back the tenant in the case of excessive usage over a certain amount. Another suggestion could be that at the time of lease renewal, you could add a standard monthly charge for the tenants to pay monthly in addition to their rental income, based on the average water/sewer charges from the previous year.
Hope this is helpful and best of luck!
-Brittany Perkins
2 Reply
Eric Greenberg
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 618 posts · 430 votes
3y
Hmm, what date was the water reading from? Welcome to DM me but one of our properties also went up 4x last bill. IIRC sometimes philly water lags on their readings then catches up to current and therfore youll see one bill that is extremely high.
1 Reply
Allan C.
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 826 posts · 810 votes
3y
@Moon Molson I put a clause in my lease agreements that say tenants are liable for cost of water use higher than a 3 month average for a given time of year. At a minimum, this makes them think twice about excessive water use since many ask about the basis of this clause.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Allan C.:

@Moon Molson I put a clause in my lease agreements that say tenants are liable for cost of water use higher than a 3 month average for a given time of year. At a minimum, this makes them think twice about excessive water use since many ask about the basis of this clause.

That’s a great idea, but the only problem is that the water is split between two apartments that share one meter. I pay water for both. If one goes over standard water usage, it’s hard to tell — not to mention hard to prove — who did it. At this point, I am only guessing it was the ground floor tenant with the backyard water hose and the large family, as opposed to the upstairs tenant who is a single young man with an empty roof deck. This is why I was inquiring into submetering (so that each tenant can be billed for their own water), but it seems most Philadelphia landlords advise against this due to possible liens.

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Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
3y
The city may have been guessing at the water usage for a while and then decided to send someone out to manually read the meter.
They under guess you get a big bill, they over guess your next bill is small.
Some places do this to save labor costs (lower your water bill).
Maybe a call to the water service with the above question will solve the problem.
In which case it may or may not be on the renters, depending on the date of the reading before this one.
Good Luck!
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Scott Mac:

The city may have been guessing at the water usage for a while and then decided to send someone out to manually read the meter.
They under guess you get a big bill, they over guess your next bill is small.
Some places do this to save labor costs (lower your water bill).
Maybe a call to the water service with the above question will solve the problem.
In which case it may or may not be on the renters, depending on the date of the reading before this one.
Good Luck!
Yeah, it’s time to call.
1 Reply
Alan AsriantsBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
Always have tenants responsible for water.
If there is no responsibility, there is no care.
As soon as they are responsible, the bill will be under 100$ lol
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Brian Zaug
Lagrangeville, NY · Member since 2017 · 144 posts · 218 votes
3y
@Moon Molson I don't know a single real estate investor that has encountered a huge water bill..welcome to the club.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Alan Asriants:

Always have tenants responsible for water.
If there is no responsibility, there is no care.
As soon as they are responsible, the bill will be under 100$ lol

Not that easy in Philly multifamily, where you can't submeter without the danger of liens, which is why I'm wondering if other local landlords are doing so.

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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Brian Zaug:

@Moon Molson I don't know a single real estate investor that has encountered a huge water bill..welcome to the club.

Thank you. Your sarcasm is really helpful regarding the question of submetering.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Scott Mac:

The city may have been guessing at the water usage for a while and then decided to send someone out to manually read the meter.
They under guess you get a big bill, they over guess your next bill is small.
Some places do this to save labor costs (lower your water bill).
Maybe a call to the water service with the above question will solve the problem.
In which case it may or may not be on the renters, depending on the date of the reading before this one.
Good Luck!

Also, I was assuming that they weren't guessing anymore because of the updated water meters that send the information electronically.
1 Reply
Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Brittany Perkins:

Good Morning,
This is a situation that no landlord wants to find themselves in, although it can unfortunately happen. In many states, although I’m not familiar with PA, the water and sewer accounts must remain in the property owners name and is typically suggested to avoid any liens on the property, etc.
I would check the verbiage in your tenants lease agreement to see if you are able to charge back the tenant in the case of excessive usage over a certain amount. Another suggestion could be that at the time of lease renewal, you could add a standard monthly charge for the tenants to pay monthly in addition to their rental income, based on the average water/sewer charges from the previous year.
Hope this is helpful and best of luck!
-Brittany Perkins

Thanks. Yeah, it's looking like most landlords are suggesting that I don't submeter due to the threat of liens. It's hard for me to charge for excessive water usage because it's hard to know who overused the water when there's only one meter for two apartments. There is currently a standard monthly charge of $60 added to the rent that generally covers the water bill for both apartments, which averages about $115 per month.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Eric Greenberg:

Hmm, what date was the water reading from? Welcome to DM me but one of our properties also went up 4x last bill. IIRC sometimes philly water lags on their readings then catches up to current and therfore youll see one bill that is extremely high.

Interesting that you got hit with 4x last bill, too. I expected some serious flux in the water bills, but the 4x thing is CRAZY. It seems that beyond submetering, we as Philly landlords have no recourse in regard to this issue, no matter if it's due to consistent tenant overuse or the city making wild guesses about water consumption.
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Moon MolsonPro Member
OP
Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 7 votes
3y
Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Did you have a new tenant move in?
After checking that the meter was read correctly, talk to the tenants and let them know the water bill was 4x what it normally was and that you've had a plumber come in to check for a leak and none was found. Ask them if they've noticed any problems or had guests that may explain the increased water usage and that you are just trying to find out what could explain it. If the bill is high for a second month, then talk to them again and let them know.
I think in most places the city can come after the owner if the tenants don't pay the water bill. For my rentals I get the bill and then let the tenants know how much it is and they add it to the rent for the next month. The bills are quarterly, so it isn't a big deal.
No new tenants, but this is great advice regardless! Thank you!
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