Ohio Cashflow LLC
Investor · Howey In The Hills, FL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 37 votes
Ohio Cashflow LLC
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 25 votes
9yMy Day in the Life At Ohio Cashflow... I apologize for the long winded post.
I"m an out of state investor from Nevada, formerly from California (bye bye Cali). I realize this is an older thread but it was the first one that popped up when I searched BP for Ohio Cashflow... and I want to throw in my 2 cents.
I'm typing this out as I sit in my hotel room in Toledo (Hampton Inn is fantastic and close to the OCF office) after spending the day and evening with the team. I'm still trying to digest the day and that delicious rib eye (Thanks Engelo). But let me start at the beginning.
My wife and I are about to retire. I actually pulled the plug on the J.O.B. About a month ago which freed me up to travel to Toledo. We are moving to Central America this coming August and we needed a modest passive income stream to facilitate our minimalist lifestyle. We have sold it all (Except the Harley) including our primary residence that we had purchased and rehabbed ourselves over the past four years. It was a foreclosure and I did the rehab while we lived in it... we owned it outright and the sale was what we needed to begin our adventure in Turn Key properties. Our immediate goal was to acquire between 7 to 10 properties with a ROI between 3500 to 4000 a month. We were very calculating about our model and used a very conservative approach toward expenses. Keep in mind we are debt free and not interested in using leverage to get started.
I started my search for TK operators on the web and ended up here at BP. What an outstanding resource and I appreciate the time and effort by all the contributers here in the forums. Spending endless hours searching and vetting I had whittled it down to a few areas in the Midwest and the South. Memphis was first on my list because it was sexy and there was a lot of interest there. I spoke with a few operators there and we just didn't click. I'm not going to name names, but it just wasn't the right fit and it didn't match our expectations for our model. I moved on the the KC market and again... not a fit for us. Next was Indy, same story. Via email and phone and a lot or research we moved our attention north to Ohio.
It didn't take long to find the Dingo aka Your Favorite Australian. I made my appointment to talk to Engelo and he was actually the first guy to call me almost on time. 5 minutes late, we don't sweat the small stuff. Before I made my call I tried to dig up the dirt on him and his team. Nothing negative. Only positive. In hindsight I believe that anyone that has had a bad experience with OHF was probably not a good fit for this operator. I also watched a lot of his videos and Google walked the 5 Points area for days. The neighborhoods were interesting and I kinda fell in love with them. Spent time on Trulia and Zillo learning as much as I could about the area.
Our phone call was short and sweet. I was prepared with my questions and he had an answer for every one of them. He was everything I expected. Cocky, sharp and to the point. He asked for the good faith deposit and I layed down the 5k without hesitation. I shared with him my model with full disclosure and he put me in touch with Rebecca who sent me some deals. We crunched the numbers and walked with Google and made our decision to go with one to start.
The transaction was flawless and the communication between myself, my wife and Rebecca was outstanding and met every expectation. She asked us when we wanted to close escrow and we closed on that date. It took about 8 days. OCF introduced us to the title company and gave a referral for an insurance company (The one they use for their personal portfolios). Everything went super smooth... as if they knew what they were doing, LOL.
Bang, just like that we had our first property. Next we were introduced to the in-house property management team. Any questions I had about the PM were answered in advance by either Engelo or Rebecca. Our on-line portal was set up and all we had to do was wait for the cash to flow.
I made my travel plans to visit the team in person, quit my job and said "Let's buy another one". I wanted to have a few under my belt so when I got to Toledo I could visit them. The second one went really quick too. Sweet little 2/1 that yields 8.7% return after our conservative strategy. If I'm not mistaken we closed on that one in like 5 days. It would have been 4 days but there was the Memorial Day holiday in the middle.
Low and behold, on the 14th of the following month the money hit our account. True to his word we received rent on the one property that didn't even have a tenant in it. Not one hiccup to this point. It's onward to Toledo.
I flew into Toledo and got in late. We had a little mix up with what airport I was flying into but Rebecca picked me up and took me to my hotel. I was going to rent a car, but she insisted in picking me up. A very nice gesture. It was about 12:30 in the morning. OCF truly works around the clock. First class service. Ahahaha, she would even let me load my own bag in the back and she insisted I sit in the front with the driver, her husband. He is also a member of the OCF team working in renovations. If I'm not mistaken he oversees renovations. In the middle of the night I'm firing off questions and they in turn answered them all. I'm surprised they didn't tuck me in. The nicest of people, I tell ya.
Engelo's personal assistant, GG, picked me up in the morning and took me to the office. Along the way, more questions and answers. GG is a delight. Right on time, no surprise. When I entered the office I was greeted by the controlled chaos. Everyone was busy but they all took the time to get to know me. From operations to property management.. then acquisitions and finally the Dingo himself.
Engelo was everything I expected. The guy is a nut. Passionate and full of life and love for what he does and the people he works with. You know that feeling you get when you meet someone and you just know you made the right decision??? Yep, I had that feeling. He was interested in me and my success. His success come from his investors success... the people that work for OCF thrive off of his energy and he has tons of it... oh to be young and passionate... and smart. I got the feeling that working for this guy was a commitment like no other. I liked it. You just feel like you want to be part of it. You want to get on the train... and I did!
Rebbeca took me on a tour of the neighborhoods and I got to see my properties. One that has a tenant in it we could only view from the outside. We don't bother tenants. She was miffed that the lawn was not mowed and made a note to talk to the PM about it. I noticed the new roof and that the rain gutter was pulled from the awning. She made another note and said there were still a few minor things that didn't meet her appoval and that they would be taken care of in short order. Sweet.
On our way to the next property she showed me a few more that they either owned, managed for other investors and even some that they were wanting to acquire. Along the way she was asking the other investor advisor that was doing the driving why they didn't own this one or that one. They wrote down a few addresses. We stopped by one property they had recently bought that had not had any work done on it yet. We went in and I just had to shoot a video of it. It was trashed... I mean wrecked. And smell???? The flys were everywhere. Someone had painted the face of Jesus on one wall (I thought it was the Zig Zag man...) On another wall the word "Sorry". There was crap everywhere. The kitchen was void of appliances and torn up mattresses in the bed rooms. "But can't you see the potential?" Rebecca said. I wanted to go down into the basement (we don't have basements where I live) but I couldn't. The smell was too bad. She did say something about removing the dead body before we got there... I wouldn't be surprised except for the fact that the nice neighborhood didn't seem like the type akin to harboring dead humans... but whatever.
On to my property that was under renovation and almost complete. I took some pics and video of it. The floors were brand new. Beautiful laminate in the living and dining... new ceiling fans too. Tough linoleum in the kitchen but the appliances had yet to be installed. There was a lot of stuff on the countertops, but they too looked new and modern. Fresh paint with the baseboards and trim in gloss white. Upstairs and bedrooms had new carpet throughout and the job looked well done. They had a guy working on the one and only bathroom in this old 3/1 home. He was working on the shower. Like everyone else working for OCF, this dude was cool. I didn't want to waste his time, but he was happy to talk with me. Earlier in the day Engelo warned me not to waste his peoples time. I know he was half kidding but I wanted to respect that fact that these folks had work to do and I was in the way of that... ahahahaha.
There is obviously more lipstick to put on this pig before it's rent-ready, but it's getting close. My only knock is the attention to detail, but again... it's not finished. I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product. What I mean about the little things is nothing more than getting paint on things that aren't suppose to have paint on them and no fresh paint that needs some. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the rent hit my account, tenant or no tenant.
After a little more touring and visiting other opportunities they took me back to my hotel. I contacted my wife and she gave me the go ahead to pursue two more. She ran the numbers on the ones I liked and they ran COC of 8.3% and 8.6% respectively. Both are 2/1's in what Rebbeca calls the "Shoe Store Neighborhoods". She likes to shop there... not for shoes, but for houses. I really like the 2/1's but so does Engelo. Keep in mind that as he helps investors build their portfolios he is building his own... and he likes the 2/1's too.
I took a quick swim and got in some exercise before GG, Engelo's personal assistant picked me up and took me to the office again. There is a lot going on at the OCF office. There is construction going on down in the boardroom. We goofed around a bit and Engelo demonstrated his robot... yes robot. Before Engelo, Dominic, Rebecca and myself went to dinner there was one final thing that had to be done before we could go. We had to move a few boxes and center the table. When I say center the table, I mean center the table... to exacting measurements. It had to be perfect. And it was. Can you say OCD??? He is a mad man.
The four of us had a lively conversation during and after dinner at Longhorn Steak House. Funny, we all ate rib eye cuts. We enjoyed conversation and sharing each other's passions, visions and even a little business. For me, the time I spent with the crew only solidified in my mind that I made the right decision investing in Ohio Cashflow. I say "In them" because I really feel like I'm part of the team, not just a number. Engelo promised last night that he would review the inventory and get back to with some deals. He would like to see me diversify in other neighborhoods and suggested we look at others before pulling the trigger on what I'd suggested. I like that. He has a great understanding of my model and is eager to help me attain my goals and to look at even a bigger picture... So, I'm typing this out as I wait for the call. I know they are super busy today and if I don't get the call today, it's cool... we don't sweat the small stuff. We will do more business, that I am sure of.
I hope this review of my day with OCF helps you. I know the window of opportunity is closing with the operator and in truth I suppose I'm a bit selfish and like to keep this gem to myself... but that's not what I'm made of. I wish only success for this business and look forward to growing with them. I also know that this is not for everyone. Engelo can bet a bit brash, but I really relate to that. As others have said they only deal with cash buyers which also isn't for everyone... but I will tell you that if this model fits for you, you can't ask to work with or invest with a finer operation.
I know this all sounds like its all roses, but I'm sure there will be bumps along the way. None so far, but I know it will come. When it does, I know my best interest will be at the fore front. It's just how these people do business.
Thank you for taking the time to read this... and again I hope you benefit from my day here in the Midwest.
Mikie V
240 Replies
- Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, KS · Member since 2013 · 35 posts · 44 votes2y
Quote from @Kelsey Heath:
I bought two properties with Ohio Cashflow last year and worked directly with their founder, Engelo. I was pretty picky about wanting properties in A or B+ areas because I believed that the Toledo real estate market was due for a big boost, and those areas benefit from appreciation most. I was right - Realtor.com just put Toledo as the #1 real estate market in the country, and it's looking at over 8% appreciation over the next year. Markets just don't stay that inexpensive forever, it goes against economic principles.
Anyway, the experience was pretty easy. One of the properties had a tenant already in place, and when the rent increase didn't happen (was supposed to be in 2023 but now it's in 2024), Ohio Cashflow covered the difference. They stand by their word. The other property had a much larger renovation on it that took longer than the 45 days, so Ohio Cashflow started paying me rent while they finished working. What I'm saying is that the company stands by their promises.
Now I sit back, and they handle the management, and I do nothing w/ ~8% cap rates. I'm a remote investor (I live in California), so this was the best way for me to invest in the Toledo market.
The only negative I'll say is that if you're expecting a fancy renovation, don't, it's far from it. The properties are completely clean, rentable and liveable, but I was surprised that they left the horrendous floral wallpaper up haha. Whenever that house becomes vacant, I might fly out there and rip that wallpaper down myself :)Kelsey, it's a real privilege to play a role in your real estate goals in Toledo, Ohio! Your honest feedback means the world to us... Remote investing has the power to revolutionize your approach, especially when you've got a dependable team handling the day-to-day grind. And while not every renovation may be flawless, what truly counts is the functionality and profitability it brings to the table. Thanks for trusting us with your vision!
PS: You didn't like the floral wallpaper, I thought it added character!?!? hahah...I'm fully onboard for a wallpaper shredding party, lets go! :p - Orlando, FL · Member since 2017 · 241 posts · 254 votes2y
I realize this post is a little stale, but I have been doing business with Ohio Cashflow and OZ Realty for about 7 years. Gotta say it has been a pretty good experience. The LTR SFH properties we acquired from them had been rehabbed well and they do a great job of keeping them leased. There are always hiccups with renters, but Engelo and his mgmt people were always helpful and addressed my concerns timely. Feedback from my renters has also been pretty positive.
We are looking to add another property or two and Toledo/Ohio Cashflow are my first choices!
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Chuck Kramer:
I realize this post is a little stale, but I have been doing business with Ohio Cashflow and OZ Realty for about 7 years. Gotta say it has been a pretty good experience. The LTR SFH properties we acquired from them had been rehabbed well and they do a great job of keeping them leased. There are always hiccups with renters, but Engelo and his mgmt people were always helpful and addressed my concerns timely. Feedback from my renters has also been pretty positive.
We are looking to add another property or two and Toledo/Ohio Cashflow are my first choices!
We appreciate you mate 🙏🙏🙏
You implement what I preached via YouTube video’s, blogs, podcasts and on thousands of investor calls…
Build a large portfolio, be patient, let the Cashflow accumulate, let appreciation do its thing, some years will be better than others and “Yes” at times we make mistakes. But we do our best to rectify them and many times eat the costs of doing so…
Just stay the bloody course.
But “No” and I end up being the bad guy because I’m not David Copperfield and can turn 1 property into 10 overnight with a monthly Cashflow of $10,000…
Cheers to another 7 years and thanks for your loyalty 👍 - 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Since an investor took the time to post a negative review on Yelp, Google and Reddit, we might as well post the full context here for all to see.
Maybe the same investor can scroll above and learn from Chuck's comment about what it takes to build a sustainable and performing portfolio.
Thanks
Hi Kelly,
Thanks for taking the time to compose a detailed review of your experience.
I’d like to start off by apologizing for not meeting your expectations.
I would also like the opportunity to provide more context below for others to see and come to their own conclusions.
Wishing you much success with your future endeavors and again, our apologies for letting you down 🙏
5 years ago (Podio)
- Ruth. Let Kelly know to conduct further due diligence to see if the Ohio market and numbers are a good fit. Ask when to follow up again. Thanks
Reply to Negatives
- 1) Engelo does not push sales. He never did and he never will. Marketing emails are “marketing emails” and composed/sent by our team. For 10+ years, Engelo has stressed in every phone call, email, podcast, blog, newsletter, etc… the importance of building a larger portfolio in a tertiary market like Toledo. Safety comes with numbers. Meaning, if you own a larger portfolio and 1 property is experiencing undesired returns. The better performance of the others will “prop” up the total performance of the entire portfolio. Also, Engelo has always advised investors that owning only 1 or 2 properties can be a “hit/miss” on a year by year basis. Engelo has also advised to not invest unless you are looking to build a larger portfolio. It’s not worth the hassle or risk. The investors that seem to be the most unsatisfied like yourself are the one’s that buy 1 or 2 properties and in Engelo’s/my opinion have unrealistic expectations.
- 2) The property management team did a fantastic job based on your comments here. They did exactly what a good property management company needs to do. They kept you updated with the happenings and where proactive with trying to find the best possible solution. Lonna who you mentioned highly does a fantastic job and has been with us for 8+ years now.
- 3) The reason why you kept getting “marketing emails” with higher priced properties is because the market has significantly increased in value since you purchased. Believe it or not, everyone and their dog are wanting to invest in Toledo and it’s even beyond my belief how much appreciation has occurred over the last 3 years. It’s a shame that you sold the property so cheap as I would have purchased it myself for that price.
- 4) Not an accountant so can’t comment on this.
- 5) Ohio Cashflow doesn’t have a “real estate agent” and we can simply refer one. Unfortunately, when someone leaves the "Wing” of Ohio Cashflow our hands get tied and things get messy when others (Realtors, property managers, etc.)… get involved. Most are incompetent and ignorant and “par time”. Plus, the sooner they sell the property (no matter the price), the sooner they earn the commission. Although this individual has performed very well in the past with investors looking to sell, things have gown downhill and we are no longer referring her. For this, I offer you my sincere apologies.
- 6) Water bills in Toledo can’t be registered in the tenants name. This is one of the biggest downsides when investing in Toledo. It’s a shame the city has this policy.
- 7) I’m blushing but Engelo doesn’t influence. Engelo doesn’t “sell”. Engelo turns down more business than he takes on. Engelo doesn’t give a $@%# if someone buys or not because Engelo doesn’t have a price. I NEVER say that “I have too many clients”. I say that “I don’t work with A$$holes”. So what you’re claiming is that Ohio Cashflow creates “false scarcity” because we send generic pre-scheduled marketing emails with properties sold months ago just to showcase examples of what we can offer? That doesn’t make any sense. And yes, we only sell a handful per month because we prefer staying small, boutique and niche. If we allowed financing, we could 10 fold our business overnight. For all reading, please Google “Engelo Rumora Scam” and try finding anything negative on Engelo’s “Sales” Tactics…
- 8) After reviewing sales data, the buyers agent name is familiar and use to be local and is now based in another market either buying for himself or working with another investor. $2,500 for mold? If was the case, should have been much more expensive IMO. So this was just a manipulation to get the property for cheaper.
In summary: I’d like to apologize once again for letting you down. The property purchased was “old” (Like every property Ohio Cashflow sells) but was renovated. The property was tenanted. The property was sold for $64,900 in a B class area (43612) of Toledo. The team responded promptly and diligently. The team and myself did no run away and did our best the entire time. The property obviously cash-flowed although not as desired.Kelly Review
My experience: Bought: March 2021, $64,900 Sold: April 2024, $48,500 - $5,000 (agent fees/closing fees/etc) = $43,500 Rental income (rents - expenses): $5,600 Average annual returns: 2.9% (approximate) Net loss at sale: $15,800
Positives:
- It was turnkey, but: a. I had to ask questions to get explanations about frequent repairs. (For properties of this age, months requiring some kind of repair seemed as common as months where nothing needed to be done). b. I had to make sure that the repairs/renovations promised at the time of purchase were actually completed. (It took almost a year, and frequent inquires, to make sure they were fully completed.) c. I had to deal with my insurance company to get one month of rent reimbursed for the first tenant that ultimately had to be evicted.
- Lonna Lonna, the woman in charge of property management, is amazing. The one truly great thing I can say about Oz Realty is Lonna. She's kind, diligent, and professional. She responds to questions in emails line-by-line. I really appreciated her efforts and would hire her to work at my company in an instant.
Negatives:
- 1) My cap rates weren't near what was advertised. To be fair, Engelo did say cap rates would probably be a couple percentage points below what he advertised through his frequent marketing emails. The property I purchased had an advertised 9% cap rate. I would have been happy with 6-7% annually, but real cap rates were about 3%. I can imagine they'd average out at about 2.5-4.5% over time (5% in a rare great year), but not close to 6%. I asked Engelo about this after an initial period of muted returns: Engelo: "You need to buy more properties to see higher annualized cap rates." Me (thinking to myself): Even if I have 10 properties averaging 4%, that's still only going to add up to 4% on average.
- 2) I had high tenant turnover. (Oz Realty charges a one-month placement fee which does eat into returns over time. If the first tenant leaves within the first year of ownership, Oz Realty waives the one-month fee.) My first tenant had to be evicted. He paid a month, skipped payment a month, paid for a month and a half (one month being the unpaid month), negotiated payment for upcoming months, lied about what he said he'd do, made a partial payment, promised to pay unpaid rent, then ultimately skipped out without paying for multiple months of rent. More than four months rent were lost between missed rent payments and legal fees to evict the tenant.
The next tenant was much better, but had frequent complaints regarding legitimate problems: -bathroom sink hot water knob that didn't work -rat urine smell coming from the vents -water leakage from the toilet
(I understand that problems occur, particularly with properties of this age, but it was surprising/disappointing considering I paid Ohio Cashflow $64.9k for a property they bought for almost half the price, then, even after having done improvements, still required frequent repairs.)
3) Property appreciation I bought the property for $64,900 and sold it for $48,5000. The real estate agent throughout the sale process: "The markets have come down since you bought your property." Me (thinking to myself): If that were the case, why do I keep getting Ohio Cashflow marketing emails for similar properties at higher prices than what I paid for?
4) Depreciation for tax purposes The amount of annual depreciation OVERLY offset my net income on the property. Because the property's annual net income was so small, in some years the depreciation which offset net income was too much. Meaning, when it came time to actually sell the property, (for tax purposes) the cost basis of the property was reduced by the full depreciation amount, reducing the amount of capital loss (which could be used to offset more profitable investment).
5) The real estate agent that "helped" me sell the property wasn't helpful or easy to deal with. The most lucrative option Ohio Cashflow offered me was to use their real estate agent. I'll refrain from mentioning her name, but she was at times rude, unhelpful, forgetful, unresponsive, and incompetent. (I can understand that a real estate agent deals with a lot of clients, but she frequently forgot the simplest of details of what we spoke about, and often failed to follow through on the things she said she would do.)
6) I had to pay unpaid water bills when the tenant that needed to be evicted up and left. Because the property's water bills were not registered in the tenant's name, I had to pick up the bill. The bills were in the amount of about ONE AND A HALF MONTHS RENT.
7) I should have been smarter. Honestly speaking, I like people that speak frankly, so I was probably a sucker for Engelo's "if I swear a lot I will appear like a straight shooter" delivery. He used scarcity to get me to buy. It worked. Engelo: "I have too many clients already and I'm actually thinking about not taking any more on." I can only guess this is untrue because of the regular "buy one of our properties" marketing emails I continued to receive, even after having purchased a property.
8) The overall property condition was worse than I imagined. Prior to selling, the buyer's inspection turned up significant mold damage to the property's foundation due to water leakage. This resulted in a substantial $2500 reduction in the sale price.
In summary: The place I bought from Ohio Cashflow was an old, broken down home that required frequent repairs despite having "significant" improvements at the time of purchase. I was advertised 9% cap rates, told to expect 7%, but actually got around 3%. I couldn't realistically imagine getting 5% returns, so I sold. At the time of purchase I was not expecting property appreciation, but based on my purchase price, I can't imagine seeing any appreciation, even after 15-20 years.
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Since an investor took the time to post a negative review on Yelp, Google and Reddit, we might as well post the full context here for all to see.
Maybe the same investor can scroll above and learn from Chuck's comment about what it takes to build a sustainable and performing portfolio.
Thanks
Hi Kelly,
Thanks for taking the time to compose a detailed review of your experience.
I’d like to start off by apologizing for not meeting your expectations.
I would also like the opportunity to provide more context below for others to see and come to their own conclusions.
Wishing you much success with your future endeavors and again, our apologies for letting you down 🙏
5 years ago (Podio)
- Ruth. Let Kelly know to conduct further due diligence to see if the Ohio market and numbers are a good fit. Ask when to follow up again. Thanks
Reply to Negatives
- 1) Engelo does not push sales. He never did and he never will. Marketing emails are “marketing emails” and composed/sent by our team. For 10+ years, Engelo has stressed in every phone call, email, podcast, blog, newsletter, etc… the importance of building a larger portfolio in a tertiary market like Toledo. Safety comes with numbers. Meaning, if you own a larger portfolio and 1 property is experiencing undesired returns. The better performance of the others will “prop” up the total performance of the entire portfolio. Also, Engelo has always advised investors that owning only 1 or 2 properties can be a “hit/miss” on a year by year basis. Engelo has also advised to not invest unless you are looking to build a larger portfolio. It’s not worth the hassle or risk. The investors that seem to be the most unsatisfied like yourself are the one’s that buy 1 or 2 properties and in Engelo’s/my opinion have unrealistic expectations.
- 2) The property management team did a fantastic job based on your comments here. They did exactly what a good property management company needs to do. They kept you updated with the happenings and where proactive with trying to find the best possible solution. Lonna who you mentioned highly does a fantastic job and has been with us for 8+ years now.
- 3) The reason why you kept getting “marketing emails” with higher priced properties is because the market has significantly increased in value since you purchased. Believe it or not, everyone and their dog are wanting to invest in Toledo and it’s even beyond my belief how much appreciation has occurred over the last 3 years. It’s a shame that you sold the property so cheap as I would have purchased it myself for that price.
- 4) Not an accountant so can’t comment on this.
- 5) Ohio Cashflow doesn’t have a “real estate agent” and we can simply refer one. Unfortunately, when someone leaves the "Wing” of Ohio Cashflow our hands get tied and things get messy when others (Realtors, property managers, etc.)… get involved. Most are incompetent and ignorant and “par time”. Plus, the sooner they sell the property (no matter the price), the sooner they earn the commission. Although this individual has performed very well in the past with investors looking to sell, things have gown downhill and we are no longer referring her. For this, I offer you my sincere apologies.
- 6) Water bills in Toledo can’t be registered in the tenants name. This is one of the biggest downsides when investing in Toledo. It’s a shame the city has this policy.
- 7) I’m blushing but Engelo doesn’t influence. Engelo doesn’t “sell”. Engelo turns down more business than he takes on. Engelo doesn’t give a $@%# if someone buys or not because Engelo doesn’t have a price. I NEVER say that “I have too many clients”. I say that “I don’t work with A$$holes”. So what you’re claiming is that Ohio Cashflow creates “false scarcity” because we send generic pre-scheduled marketing emails with properties sold months ago just to showcase examples of what we can offer? That doesn’t make any sense. And yes, we only sell a handful per month because we prefer staying small, boutique and niche. If we allowed financing, we could 10 fold our business overnight. For all reading, please Google “Engelo Rumora Scam” and try finding anything negative on Engelo’s “Sales” Tactics…
- 8) After reviewing sales data, the buyers agent name is familiar and use to be local and is now based in another market either buying for himself or working with another investor. $2,500 for mold? If was the case, should have been much more expensive IMO. So this was just a manipulation to get the property for cheaper.
In summary: I’d like to apologize once again for letting you down. The property purchased was “old” (Like every property Ohio Cashflow sells) but was renovated. The property was tenanted. The property was sold for $64,900 in a B class area (43612) of Toledo. The team responded promptly and diligently. The team and myself did no run away and did our best the entire time. The property obviously cash-flowed although not as desired.Kelly Review
My experience: Bought: March 2021, $64,900 Sold: April 2024, $48,500 - $5,000 (agent fees/closing fees/etc) = $43,500 Rental income (rents - expenses): $5,600 Average annual returns: 2.9% (approximate) Net loss at sale: $15,800
Positives:
- It was turnkey, but: a. I had to ask questions to get explanations about frequent repairs. (For properties of this age, months requiring some kind of repair seemed as common as months where nothing needed to be done). b. I had to make sure that the repairs/renovations promised at the time of purchase were actually completed. (It took almost a year, and frequent inquires, to make sure they were fully completed.) c. I had to deal with my insurance company to get one month of rent reimbursed for the first tenant that ultimately had to be evicted.
- Lonna Lonna, the woman in charge of property management, is amazing. The one truly great thing I can say about Oz Realty is Lonna. She's kind, diligent, and professional. She responds to questions in emails line-by-line. I really appreciated her efforts and would hire her to work at my company in an instant.
Negatives:
- 1) My cap rates weren't near what was advertised. To be fair, Engelo did say cap rates would probably be a couple percentage points below what he advertised through his frequent marketing emails. The property I purchased had an advertised 9% cap rate. I would have been happy with 6-7% annually, but real cap rates were about 3%. I can imagine they'd average out at about 2.5-4.5% over time (5% in a rare great year), but not close to 6%. I asked Engelo about this after an initial period of muted returns: Engelo: "You need to buy more properties to see higher annualized cap rates." Me (thinking to myself): Even if I have 10 properties averaging 4%, that's still only going to add up to 4% on average.
- 2) I had high tenant turnover. (Oz Realty charges a one-month placement fee which does eat into returns over time. If the first tenant leaves within the first year of ownership, Oz Realty waives the one-month fee.) My first tenant had to be evicted. He paid a month, skipped payment a month, paid for a month and a half (one month being the unpaid month), negotiated payment for upcoming months, lied about what he said he'd do, made a partial payment, promised to pay unpaid rent, then ultimately skipped out without paying for multiple months of rent. More than four months rent were lost between missed rent payments and legal fees to evict the tenant.
The next tenant was much better, but had frequent complaints regarding legitimate problems: -bathroom sink hot water knob that didn't work -rat urine smell coming from the vents -water leakage from the toilet
(I understand that problems occur, particularly with properties of this age, but it was surprising/disappointing considering I paid Ohio Cashflow $64.9k for a property they bought for almost half the price, then, even after having done improvements, still required frequent repairs.)
3) Property appreciation I bought the property for $64,900 and sold it for $48,5000. The real estate agent throughout the sale process: "The markets have come down since you bought your property." Me (thinking to myself): If that were the case, why do I keep getting Ohio Cashflow marketing emails for similar properties at higher prices than what I paid for?
4) Depreciation for tax purposes The amount of annual depreciation OVERLY offset my net income on the property. Because the property's annual net income was so small, in some years the depreciation which offset net income was too much. Meaning, when it came time to actually sell the property, (for tax purposes) the cost basis of the property was reduced by the full depreciation amount, reducing the amount of capital loss (which could be used to offset more profitable investment).
5) The real estate agent that "helped" me sell the property wasn't helpful or easy to deal with. The most lucrative option Ohio Cashflow offered me was to use their real estate agent. I'll refrain from mentioning her name, but she was at times rude, unhelpful, forgetful, unresponsive, and incompetent. (I can understand that a real estate agent deals with a lot of clients, but she frequently forgot the simplest of details of what we spoke about, and often failed to follow through on the things she said she would do.)
6) I had to pay unpaid water bills when the tenant that needed to be evicted up and left. Because the property's water bills were not registered in the tenant's name, I had to pick up the bill. The bills were in the amount of about ONE AND A HALF MONTHS RENT.
7) I should have been smarter. Honestly speaking, I like people that speak frankly, so I was probably a sucker for Engelo's "if I swear a lot I will appear like a straight shooter" delivery. He used scarcity to get me to buy. It worked. Engelo: "I have too many clients already and I'm actually thinking about not taking any more on." I can only guess this is untrue because of the regular "buy one of our properties" marketing emails I continued to receive, even after having purchased a property.
8) The overall property condition was worse than I imagined. Prior to selling, the buyer's inspection turned up significant mold damage to the property's foundation due to water leakage. This resulted in a substantial $2500 reduction in the sale price.
In summary: The place I bought from Ohio Cashflow was an old, broken down home that required frequent repairs despite having "significant" improvements at the time of purchase. I was advertised 9% cap rates, told to expect 7%, but actually got around 3%. I couldn't realistically imagine getting 5% returns, so I sold. At the time of purchase I was not expecting property appreciation, but based on my purchase price, I can't imagine seeing any appreciation, even after 15-20 years.
For additional context on the above matter along with in depth "soap opera' back and forth, please click on this link - https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1089655-warning-dont-use-ohio-cash-flow-unless-you-want-to-lose-thousands-of-dollars?highlight_post=6744974&page=4#p6744974
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