Ohio Cashflow LLC
Investor · Howey In The Hills, FL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 37 votes
Ohio Cashflow LLC
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Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 25 votes
9yMy Day in the Life At Ohio Cashflow... I apologize for the long winded post.
I"m an out of state investor from Nevada, formerly from California (bye bye Cali). I realize this is an older thread but it was the first one that popped up when I searched BP for Ohio Cashflow... and I want to throw in my 2 cents.
I'm typing this out as I sit in my hotel room in Toledo (Hampton Inn is fantastic and close to the OCF office) after spending the day and evening with the team. I'm still trying to digest the day and that delicious rib eye (Thanks Engelo). But let me start at the beginning.
My wife and I are about to retire. I actually pulled the plug on the J.O.B. About a month ago which freed me up to travel to Toledo. We are moving to Central America this coming August and we needed a modest passive income stream to facilitate our minimalist lifestyle. We have sold it all (Except the Harley) including our primary residence that we had purchased and rehabbed ourselves over the past four years. It was a foreclosure and I did the rehab while we lived in it... we owned it outright and the sale was what we needed to begin our adventure in Turn Key properties. Our immediate goal was to acquire between 7 to 10 properties with a ROI between 3500 to 4000 a month. We were very calculating about our model and used a very conservative approach toward expenses. Keep in mind we are debt free and not interested in using leverage to get started.
I started my search for TK operators on the web and ended up here at BP. What an outstanding resource and I appreciate the time and effort by all the contributers here in the forums. Spending endless hours searching and vetting I had whittled it down to a few areas in the Midwest and the South. Memphis was first on my list because it was sexy and there was a lot of interest there. I spoke with a few operators there and we just didn't click. I'm not going to name names, but it just wasn't the right fit and it didn't match our expectations for our model. I moved on the the KC market and again... not a fit for us. Next was Indy, same story. Via email and phone and a lot or research we moved our attention north to Ohio.
It didn't take long to find the Dingo aka Your Favorite Australian. I made my appointment to talk to Engelo and he was actually the first guy to call me almost on time. 5 minutes late, we don't sweat the small stuff. Before I made my call I tried to dig up the dirt on him and his team. Nothing negative. Only positive. In hindsight I believe that anyone that has had a bad experience with OHF was probably not a good fit for this operator. I also watched a lot of his videos and Google walked the 5 Points area for days. The neighborhoods were interesting and I kinda fell in love with them. Spent time on Trulia and Zillo learning as much as I could about the area.
Our phone call was short and sweet. I was prepared with my questions and he had an answer for every one of them. He was everything I expected. Cocky, sharp and to the point. He asked for the good faith deposit and I layed down the 5k without hesitation. I shared with him my model with full disclosure and he put me in touch with Rebecca who sent me some deals. We crunched the numbers and walked with Google and made our decision to go with one to start.
The transaction was flawless and the communication between myself, my wife and Rebecca was outstanding and met every expectation. She asked us when we wanted to close escrow and we closed on that date. It took about 8 days. OCF introduced us to the title company and gave a referral for an insurance company (The one they use for their personal portfolios). Everything went super smooth... as if they knew what they were doing, LOL.
Bang, just like that we had our first property. Next we were introduced to the in-house property management team. Any questions I had about the PM were answered in advance by either Engelo or Rebecca. Our on-line portal was set up and all we had to do was wait for the cash to flow.
I made my travel plans to visit the team in person, quit my job and said "Let's buy another one". I wanted to have a few under my belt so when I got to Toledo I could visit them. The second one went really quick too. Sweet little 2/1 that yields 8.7% return after our conservative strategy. If I'm not mistaken we closed on that one in like 5 days. It would have been 4 days but there was the Memorial Day holiday in the middle.
Low and behold, on the 14th of the following month the money hit our account. True to his word we received rent on the one property that didn't even have a tenant in it. Not one hiccup to this point. It's onward to Toledo.
I flew into Toledo and got in late. We had a little mix up with what airport I was flying into but Rebecca picked me up and took me to my hotel. I was going to rent a car, but she insisted in picking me up. A very nice gesture. It was about 12:30 in the morning. OCF truly works around the clock. First class service. Ahahaha, she would even let me load my own bag in the back and she insisted I sit in the front with the driver, her husband. He is also a member of the OCF team working in renovations. If I'm not mistaken he oversees renovations. In the middle of the night I'm firing off questions and they in turn answered them all. I'm surprised they didn't tuck me in. The nicest of people, I tell ya.
Engelo's personal assistant, GG, picked me up in the morning and took me to the office. Along the way, more questions and answers. GG is a delight. Right on time, no surprise. When I entered the office I was greeted by the controlled chaos. Everyone was busy but they all took the time to get to know me. From operations to property management.. then acquisitions and finally the Dingo himself.
Engelo was everything I expected. The guy is a nut. Passionate and full of life and love for what he does and the people he works with. You know that feeling you get when you meet someone and you just know you made the right decision??? Yep, I had that feeling. He was interested in me and my success. His success come from his investors success... the people that work for OCF thrive off of his energy and he has tons of it... oh to be young and passionate... and smart. I got the feeling that working for this guy was a commitment like no other. I liked it. You just feel like you want to be part of it. You want to get on the train... and I did!
Rebbeca took me on a tour of the neighborhoods and I got to see my properties. One that has a tenant in it we could only view from the outside. We don't bother tenants. She was miffed that the lawn was not mowed and made a note to talk to the PM about it. I noticed the new roof and that the rain gutter was pulled from the awning. She made another note and said there were still a few minor things that didn't meet her appoval and that they would be taken care of in short order. Sweet.
On our way to the next property she showed me a few more that they either owned, managed for other investors and even some that they were wanting to acquire. Along the way she was asking the other investor advisor that was doing the driving why they didn't own this one or that one. They wrote down a few addresses. We stopped by one property they had recently bought that had not had any work done on it yet. We went in and I just had to shoot a video of it. It was trashed... I mean wrecked. And smell???? The flys were everywhere. Someone had painted the face of Jesus on one wall (I thought it was the Zig Zag man...) On another wall the word "Sorry". There was crap everywhere. The kitchen was void of appliances and torn up mattresses in the bed rooms. "But can't you see the potential?" Rebecca said. I wanted to go down into the basement (we don't have basements where I live) but I couldn't. The smell was too bad. She did say something about removing the dead body before we got there... I wouldn't be surprised except for the fact that the nice neighborhood didn't seem like the type akin to harboring dead humans... but whatever.
On to my property that was under renovation and almost complete. I took some pics and video of it. The floors were brand new. Beautiful laminate in the living and dining... new ceiling fans too. Tough linoleum in the kitchen but the appliances had yet to be installed. There was a lot of stuff on the countertops, but they too looked new and modern. Fresh paint with the baseboards and trim in gloss white. Upstairs and bedrooms had new carpet throughout and the job looked well done. They had a guy working on the one and only bathroom in this old 3/1 home. He was working on the shower. Like everyone else working for OCF, this dude was cool. I didn't want to waste his time, but he was happy to talk with me. Earlier in the day Engelo warned me not to waste his peoples time. I know he was half kidding but I wanted to respect that fact that these folks had work to do and I was in the way of that... ahahahaha.
There is obviously more lipstick to put on this pig before it's rent-ready, but it's getting close. My only knock is the attention to detail, but again... it's not finished. I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product. What I mean about the little things is nothing more than getting paint on things that aren't suppose to have paint on them and no fresh paint that needs some. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the rent hit my account, tenant or no tenant.
After a little more touring and visiting other opportunities they took me back to my hotel. I contacted my wife and she gave me the go ahead to pursue two more. She ran the numbers on the ones I liked and they ran COC of 8.3% and 8.6% respectively. Both are 2/1's in what Rebbeca calls the "Shoe Store Neighborhoods". She likes to shop there... not for shoes, but for houses. I really like the 2/1's but so does Engelo. Keep in mind that as he helps investors build their portfolios he is building his own... and he likes the 2/1's too.
I took a quick swim and got in some exercise before GG, Engelo's personal assistant picked me up and took me to the office again. There is a lot going on at the OCF office. There is construction going on down in the boardroom. We goofed around a bit and Engelo demonstrated his robot... yes robot. Before Engelo, Dominic, Rebecca and myself went to dinner there was one final thing that had to be done before we could go. We had to move a few boxes and center the table. When I say center the table, I mean center the table... to exacting measurements. It had to be perfect. And it was. Can you say OCD??? He is a mad man.
The four of us had a lively conversation during and after dinner at Longhorn Steak House. Funny, we all ate rib eye cuts. We enjoyed conversation and sharing each other's passions, visions and even a little business. For me, the time I spent with the crew only solidified in my mind that I made the right decision investing in Ohio Cashflow. I say "In them" because I really feel like I'm part of the team, not just a number. Engelo promised last night that he would review the inventory and get back to with some deals. He would like to see me diversify in other neighborhoods and suggested we look at others before pulling the trigger on what I'd suggested. I like that. He has a great understanding of my model and is eager to help me attain my goals and to look at even a bigger picture... So, I'm typing this out as I wait for the call. I know they are super busy today and if I don't get the call today, it's cool... we don't sweat the small stuff. We will do more business, that I am sure of.
I hope this review of my day with OCF helps you. I know the window of opportunity is closing with the operator and in truth I suppose I'm a bit selfish and like to keep this gem to myself... but that's not what I'm made of. I wish only success for this business and look forward to growing with them. I also know that this is not for everyone. Engelo can bet a bit brash, but I really relate to that. As others have said they only deal with cash buyers which also isn't for everyone... but I will tell you that if this model fits for you, you can't ask to work with or invest with a finer operation.
I know this all sounds like its all roses, but I'm sure there will be bumps along the way. None so far, but I know it will come. When it does, I know my best interest will be at the fore front. It's just how these people do business.
Thank you for taking the time to read this... and again I hope you benefit from my day here in the Midwest.
Mikie V
240 Replies
- 6yDave PoeppelmeierBusiness MemberRealtor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2015 · 491 posts · 722 votes
Toledo is a great market. As I've said before, it has a low point of entry, it cash flows well if you take the time to run your numbers, and there is plenty of Real Estate here for everyone. See all of @Engelo Rumora posts above, from someone who lives and invests here it's all true. You can keep the cranes and skyscrapers, I'll take cash flow all day.
Keller Williams Citywide | Dave Poeppelmeier534 Reviews - 6yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Dave Poeppelmeier:
Toledo is a great market. As I've said before, it has a low point of entry, it cash flows well if you take the time to run your numbers, and there is plenty of Real Estate here for everyone. See all of @Engelo Rumora posts above, from someone who lives and invests here it's all true. You can keep the cranes and skyscrapers, I'll take cash flow all day.
Thanks for the mention mate and agreed.
The cashflow can be calculated much easier than appreciation can be predicted.
Much success
- Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 1 vote5y
@Engelo Rumora I have been following these threads and your company for a while trying to learn as much as I can before jumping into the REI game. So far, from what I have read from you and what others say about you, I was dead set on OCF and going to fill out an investor application. I like your attitude towards the game, professionalism, responsiveness, and obvious involvement with your investors. Maybe I just don't understand it, but your last post seemed to be talking people out of REI and going stocks. While I understand the reasoning, Im not particularly keen on stock investing. I guess I'm looking for an expansion on the last post. Should I not be looking into turnkey REI right now? Am I setting myself up for failure by looking into turnkey?
Best Regards and much respect.
- 5yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Colin Whyte:
@Engelo Rumora I have been following these threads and your company for a while trying to learn as much as I can before jumping into the REI game. So far, from what I have read from you and what others say about you, I was dead set on OCF and going to fill out an investor application. I like your attitude towards the game, professionalism, responsiveness, and obvious involvement with your investors. Maybe I just don't understand it, but your last post seemed to be talking people out of REI and going stocks. While I understand the reasoning, Im not particularly keen on stock investing. I guess I'm looking for an expansion on the last post. Should I not be looking into turnkey REI right now? Am I setting myself up for failure by looking into turnkey?
Best Regards and much respect.
Hey mate,
Thanks for the mention and question.
Turnkey investing isn't for everyone as it requires a lot of faith and trust in the turnkey provider.
Over the years I have found that way to many investors want to be "too hands on" so investing in turnkey is not for them.
Many also expect overnight success and that isn't possible either...
Ohio Cashflow likes working with investors that are comfortable and confident in their decision making.
That have done their due diligence on our company, market and turnkey investing in general.
And that will trust us with doing our best for them.
Also, buying 1 or 2 properties and expecting miracles isn't worth the risk of investing out of state or country.
As for stocks.
That ship has sailed IMO as the market is at all time highs.
So the risk is too high for inexperienced investors to make large returns.
DISCLAIMER: My online content = My own opinions and shouldn't be followed as gospel hehe. Do your own research and make your own decisions
Turnkey investing is a passive income vehicle for those with high disposable income or lump sums of capital sitting around doing nothing.
Turnkey investing won't make you rich but if you invest enough and well, it can make you financially free.
Hope that helps mate and I wish you all the best.
ps. Just as an FYI. We are super strict/slow at taking on new business as we are too busy meeting existing investor demand.
- Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 11 votes5y
In case there is still anyone out there still wanting to buy anything from Ohio Cashflow, my advice is DON'T DO IT. I bought a small house from them for $56,900 in January 2018.
As usual, the property is being sold AS IS, with NO WARRANTIES. At that time I thought with their online reputation, it should be a safe bet. However, I cannot be more wrong!! The house is full of basic foundation problems which was not taken care of during their so-called "rehab", which obviously was not done properly. I am trying to sell the same house now and they offered me $22,450 for the same house.Their business model goes like this:
1. Sell houses for way above market value, with an incomplete rehab, and asking buyers to trust them (the trust here is the BIG PROBLEM when you trust someone not worthy of trust).
2. Rent it out as a slump lord. I did get quite a few bad tenants, and yes with evictions too.
Once again, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM. You will be much better off just buying any house from any stranger on the market than buying it from them.
All investors out there, consider yourselves warned of this company.
- Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes5y
Originally posted by @ChokSheak Lau:
In case there is still anyone out there still wanting to buy anything from Ohio Cashflow, my advice is DON'T DO IT. I bought a small house from them for $56,900 in January 2018.
As usual, the property is being sold AS IS, with NO WARRANTIES. At that time I thought with their online reputation, it should be a safe bet. However, I cannot be more wrong!! The house is full of basic foundation problems which was not taken care of during their so-called "rehab", which obviously was not done properly. I am trying to sell the same house now and they offered me $22,450 for the same house.Their business model goes like this:
1. Sell houses for way above market value, with an incomplete rehab, and asking buyers to trust them (the trust here is the BIG PROBLEM when you trust someone not worthy of trust).
2. Rent it out as a slump lord. I did get quite a few bad tenants, and yes with evictions too.
Once again, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM THEM. You will be much better off just buying any house from any stranger on the market than buying it from them.
All investors out there, consider yourselves warned of this company.
Hello,
Disclaimer: I don't know Mr Lau, I met him since I was interested in his property.
I am one of the prospective buyers for Mr Lau's property. I am also one of the previous customers of Ohio Cashflow. This is the first post from my new account (I closed the older one), so in case of any doubt you can PM me and I can prove my identity.
I ordered the inspection that revealed:
- There are major foundational and structural issues, the property is leaning on one side (please see the attached photos)
- There is knob and tube wiring in the property (again, photos attached)
Also note that attached photos are only a part of the inspection report. Rest is not nice as well.
In the past I bought properties from Ohio Cashflow as well. Quality of the management gradually went downhill. I knew that I was paying premium because that's the point of turnkey companies, however at least my houses had reliable foundations and structures. They survived inspections from lenders and I was able to sell them.
I think what Mr Lau experiences is way more extreme, equivalent to a scam. Unless all these major flaws happened between 2018 and today (in other words, if the tenant did not install the knob and tube wiring end damaged the foundation etc), they sold Mr Lau a property in horrible, horrible condition. This is abuse of the trust of out of state investors.
So yes, in the light of this most recent info, I would also say stay away from Ohio Cashflow. My own experience with the company was not too bad, but witnessing what Mr Lau is experiencing, I see that quality obviously went downhill and company deserves a "stay away at all costs" warning. So unfortunate.
I think the best thing to do for the OCF at this point is to help him with his rehabs (assuming that OCF wouldn't buy the property back). Mr Lau's property is opposite of what OCF promises. I think he deserves better, in the end all he did was to trust the OCF. The proper way to fix this issue is to help him with all those rehabs. It'll help restore what is left of the company's credibility.
If Mr Lau's case is ignored, well, then there is nothing we can do other than repeating: Stay away from "care free hands off" turnkey companies that are selling knob and tube wired houses that are gradually leaning on one side.
I hope Mr Lau and OCF can work something out that will help Mr Lau survive this process with the least damage possible. Thanks
- 5yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
I'm saddened by your posts and would like to apologies for letting you down.
Before I touch on a few things I wanted to let you know that the team will be reaching out regarding the re-purchase of the property for the same price it was sold.
We do our best to set the expectation from day 1 but obviously it sometimes just isn't meant to be.
Nobody's fault I guess and it is what it is.
As soon as you leave the security and comfort of Ohio Cashflow's wing we no longer control the outcome of your investment. As can be witnessed above. We don't control the actions of other realtors or property managers in Toledo and unfortunately the market is known for sub par professionals.
Our company has stood the test of time and we stand behind our operation.
So yet again we are coming to the rescue when all/everyone else fails...
I agree with Chok.
DON'T BUY A HOUSE FROM OHIO CASHFLOW IF:
- 1) You expect life changing cashflow from owning only a few properties.
- 2) You aren't willing to do due diligence on our company, market, properties and turnkey investing.
- 3) You expect perfection and properties fully rehabbed from top to bottom.
- 4) You aren't willing to own 100 year old properties.
- 5) You expect large capital gains immediately.
- Regarding our integrity being questioned.
- 1) Our property offering process is systemized to submitting 50-70% off the asking price of any new MLS listing. That is how we can keep our property prices at fair market value when we sell as we are only able to secure a handful of deals when utilizing this "Low ball" offering strategy. That's why unknowingly we offered the price we did for your property.
- 2) We never sell above market value. Every property sold comes with a CMA with comps that aren't Ohio Cashflow's. Want to do an appraisal? Do it and it won't appraise. Or it will. I'm always clear on this. Appraisers use foreclosed comps which affect the value of a renovated/tenanted turnkey properties. Either way, we aren't reducing our price based on what the appraisal comes in at. If you think that getting a mortgage makes you more secure, you are wrong. Many turnkey providers influence the appraisal in their favor. It's not that difficult do to.
- 3) Although not perfect, our rehabs are sufficient. I have also stressed this many many times. As for the issues in the inspection report. I'm not an expert when it comes to rehabs but nothing looks major. I'm quite confident the property was not in this condition when sold. And as I mentioned above, we don't control the outcome when new property management takes over. These homes are 100+ years old in some cases come with imperfections. Foundation issues can occur if a there is no downspout and the rainwater pours straight down the side of the property and softens the ground. Seems to be the case here and once we buy the property back we will evaluate.
- 4) Do a building inspection. We have nothing against them. Again, we won't fix everything that comes up as we don't claim perfection with our rehabs. All major items will be addressed. If something was missed or not seen (Like nob and tube wiring). We will look after it. If you are picky and want extra done (That doesn't affect the sustainability of the property). We will address it but you will have to pay extra for those items. It's that simple.
- 5) Our property management didn't go downhill. Quite on the contrary, it has become better than ever. The only difference is we started charging for our efforts unlike the first few years when we did things for free. This is our mistake of not charging properly from day and setting the expectation correctly.
- I will close by saying that we don't have to buy this property back but we choose to do so.
- So after reading through the 200+ posts on this thread and learning about what we are about.
- If you still believe we are a scam.
- Please do all of us a favor and DON'T INQUIRE OR INVEST WITH OHIO CASHFLOW
- ps. The below comment was only 2 years ago. I'm once sorry for your disappointment and letting you down.
- Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 2 votes5y
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
I'm saddened by your posts and would like to apologies for letting you down.
Before I touch on a few things I wanted to let you know that the team will be reaching out regarding the re-purchase of the property for the same price it was sold.
We do our best to set the expectation from day 1 but obviously it sometimes just isn't meant to be.
Nobody's fault I guess and it is what it is.
As soon as you leave the security and comfort of Ohio Cashflow's wing we no longer control the outcome of your investment. As can be witnessed above. We don't control the actions of other realtors or property managers in Toledo and unfortunately the market is known for sub par professionals.
Our company has stood the test of time and we stand behind our operation.
So yet again we are coming to the rescue when all/everyone else fails...
I agree with Chok.
DON'T BUY A HOUSE FROM OHIO CASHFLOW IF:
- 1) You expect life changing cashflow from owning only a few properties.
- 2) You aren't willing to do due diligence on our company, market, properties and turnkey investing.
- 3) You expect perfection and properties fully rehabbed from top to bottom.
- 4) You aren't willing to own 100 year old properties.
- 5) You expect large capital gains immediately.
- Regarding our integrity being questioned.
- 1) Our property offering process is systemized to submitting 50-70% off the asking price of any new MLS listing. That is how we can keep our property prices at fair market value when we sell as we are only able to secure a handful of deals when utilizing this "Low ball" offering strategy. That's why unknowingly we offered the price we did for your property.
- 2) We never sell above market value. Every property sold comes with a CMA with comps that aren't Ohio Cashflow's. Want to do an appraisal? Do it and it won't appraise. Or it will. I'm always clear on this. Appraisers use foreclosed comps which affect the value of a renovated/tenanted turnkey properties. Either way, we aren't reducing our price based on what the appraisal comes in at. If you think that getting a mortgage makes you more secure, you are wrong. Many turnkey providers influence the appraisal in their favor. It's not that difficult do to.
- 3) Although not perfect, our rehabs are sufficient. I have also stressed this many many times. As for the issues in the inspection report. I'm not an expert when it comes to rehabs but nothing looks major. I'm quite confident the property was not in this condition when sold. And as I mentioned above, we don't control the outcome when new property management takes over. These homes are 100+ years old in some cases come with imperfections. Foundation issues can occur if a there is no downspout and the rainwater pours straight down the side of the property and softens the ground. Seems to be the case here and once we buy the property back we will evaluate.
- 4) Do a building inspection. We have nothing against them. Again, we won't fix everything that comes up as we don't claim perfection with our rehabs. All major items will be addressed. If something was missed or not seen (Like nob and tube wiring). We will look after it. If you are picky and want extra done (That doesn't affect the sustainability of the property). We will address it but you will have to pay extra for those items. It's that simple.
- 5) Our property management didn't go downhill. Quite on the contrary, it has become better than ever. The only difference is we started charging for our efforts unlike the first few years when we did things for free. This is our mistake of not charging properly from day and setting the expectation correctly.
- I will close by saying that we don't have to buy this property back but we choose to do so.
- So after reading through the 200+ posts on this thread and learning about what we are about.
- If you still believe we are a scam.
- Please do all of us a favor and DON'T INQUIRE OR INVEST WITH OHIO CASHFLOW
- ps. The below comment was only 2 years ago. I'm once sorry for your disappointment and letting you down.
Buying the property at the same price it was sold is the best thing that can be done at this point. Kudos if you really do that.
No need to turn this into a debate, messages are out there for everyone to read and decide themselves. But if you buy the property back at the same price it'll be a huge positive message obviously, so I am hoping that it'll happen. Thanks
- 5yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ahmet C.:
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
I'm saddened by your posts and would like to apologies for letting you down.
Before I touch on a few things I wanted to let you know that the team will be reaching out regarding the re-purchase of the property for the same price it was sold.
We do our best to set the expectation from day 1 but obviously it sometimes just isn't meant to be.
Nobody's fault I guess and it is what it is.
As soon as you leave the security and comfort of Ohio Cashflow's wing we no longer control the outcome of your investment. As can be witnessed above. We don't control the actions of other realtors or property managers in Toledo and unfortunately the market is known for sub par professionals.
Our company has stood the test of time and we stand behind our operation.
So yet again we are coming to the rescue when all/everyone else fails...
I agree with Chok.
DON'T BUY A HOUSE FROM OHIO CASHFLOW IF:
- 1) You expect life changing cashflow from owning only a few properties.
- 2) You aren't willing to do due diligence on our company, market, properties and turnkey investing.
- 3) You expect perfection and properties fully rehabbed from top to bottom.
- 4) You aren't willing to own 100 year old properties.
- 5) You expect large capital gains immediately.
- Regarding our integrity being questioned.
- 1) Our property offering process is systemized to submitting 50-70% off the asking price of any new MLS listing. That is how we can keep our property prices at fair market value when we sell as we are only able to secure a handful of deals when utilizing this "Low ball" offering strategy. That's why unknowingly we offered the price we did for your property.
- 2) We never sell above market value. Every property sold comes with a CMA with comps that aren't Ohio Cashflow's. Want to do an appraisal? Do it and it won't appraise. Or it will. I'm always clear on this. Appraisers use foreclosed comps which affect the value of a renovated/tenanted turnkey properties. Either way, we aren't reducing our price based on what the appraisal comes in at. If you think that getting a mortgage makes you more secure, you are wrong. Many turnkey providers influence the appraisal in their favor. It's not that difficult do to.
- 3) Although not perfect, our rehabs are sufficient. I have also stressed this many many times. As for the issues in the inspection report. I'm not an expert when it comes to rehabs but nothing looks major. I'm quite confident the property was not in this condition when sold. And as I mentioned above, we don't control the outcome when new property management takes over. These homes are 100+ years old in some cases come with imperfections. Foundation issues can occur if a there is no downspout and the rainwater pours straight down the side of the property and softens the ground. Seems to be the case here and once we buy the property back we will evaluate.
- 4) Do a building inspection. We have nothing against them. Again, we won't fix everything that comes up as we don't claim perfection with our rehabs. All major items will be addressed. If something was missed or not seen (Like nob and tube wiring). We will look after it. If you are picky and want extra done (That doesn't affect the sustainability of the property). We will address it but you will have to pay extra for those items. It's that simple.
- 5) Our property management didn't go downhill. Quite on the contrary, it has become better than ever. The only difference is we started charging for our efforts unlike the first few years when we did things for free. This is our mistake of not charging properly from day and setting the expectation correctly.
- I will close by saying that we don't have to buy this property back but we choose to do so.
- So after reading through the 200+ posts on this thread and learning about what we are about.
- If you still believe we are a scam.
- Please do all of us a favor and DON'T INQUIRE OR INVEST WITH OHIO CASHFLOW
- ps. The below comment was only 2 years ago. I'm once sorry for your disappointment and letting you down.
Buying the property at the same price it was sold is the best thing that can be done at this point. Kudos if you really do that.
No need to turn this into a debate, messages are out there for everyone to read and decide themselves. But if you buy the property back at the same price it'll be a huge positive message obviously, so I am hoping that it'll happen. Thanks
Thanks Ahmet and agreed.
Life is too short for negativity.
It wouldn't be the first time we have bought a property back at the detriment to our company.
Hopefully the last...
We take full responsibility when it's ours to take and even when it isn't ours.
Our preference is to not reveal dirty laundry and if pushed, we will have no choice other than to defend our reputation.
It is my belief that all can be re-solved behind closed doors and for everyone to walk away with the least sour taste.
Again, my apologies and I wish you both all the best in life and investing.
- Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 11 votes5y
Hello Mr Dingo, it would be great if you could purchase back the property at the same price I purchased it. It is fine that you posted my comment from 2 years back, but my experience has been that sometime after I posted that comment, everything went downhill - uncollectable rents, tenant evictions, unable to find good tenants, dirty property that badly needs a cleanup etc. All this with your company Oz Realty.
I had tried to state everything as factually as possible without misrepresenting any fact in any way. You are totally welcome to post anything you want to say, but that does not and will not change the fact that I have lost a lot of money as a result of buying properties from your company. If you buy the property back for the same purchase price I paid, I will be grateful for that and write something here to indicate that you did so to set the record straight. Thanks in advance and look forward to receiving a written offer from you very soon.
- 5yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @ChokSheak Lau:
Hello Mr Dingo, it would be great if you could purchase back the property at the same price I purchased it. It is fine that you posted my comment from 2 years back, but my experience has been that sometime after I posted that comment, everything went downhill - uncollectable rents, tenant evictions, unable to find good tenants, dirty property that badly needs a cleanup etc. All this with your company Oz Realty.
I had tried to state everything as factually as possible without misrepresenting any fact in any way. You are totally welcome to post anything you want to say, but that does not and will not change the fact that I have lost a lot of money as a result of buying properties from your company. If you buy the property back for the same purchase price I paid, I will be grateful for that and write something here to indicate that you did so to set the record straight. Thanks in advance and look forward to receiving a written offer from you very soon.
Hi Chok,
Thanks for your comment.
We are happy to buy the property back and to put an end to this saga.
For all who want to see "our side of the story" per se can reach out via private message and we will gladly show our cards/facts.
As unsophisticated as we are in many aspects of this business, we have learnt the hard way that it's absolutely necessary to track everything.
Let's put this to rest and as mentioned above, most is visible for all to see and decide.
There is no need to retract any of the negative online comments you made.
We appreciate them and they will make us better.
We are buying the property back because we feel it's the right thing to do and not for any comments to be removed.
I wish you all the best with your endeavors.
- Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 11 votes5y
Update: Just wanted to mention that the transaction is closed, and the Dingo has honored his word to buy back the property at the original price I bought from them. So thanks and kudos to the Dingo for this! I want to leave any potential readers with one advice - always do an inspection + appraisal on any property that you are going to buy. That would have potentially caught any problems early on and avoided overpaying for any "investments". Good luck to everyone out there to play safe.
- 5yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @ChokSheak Lau:
Update: Just wanted to mention that the transaction is closed, and the Dingo has honored his word to buy back the property at the original price I bought from them. So thanks and kudos to the Dingo for this! I want to leave any potential readers with one advice - always do an inspection + appraisal on any property that you are going to buy. That would have potentially caught any problems early on and avoided overpaying for any "investments". Good luck to everyone out there to play safe.
Hi Chok,
Thanks for posting the update and glad that we where able to rectify.
God Bless you and all the best.
- Lakeland, FL · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 4 votes3y
Update - I posted about 4 years ago while in the process of acquiring my 3rd property.
Since then, I've had a couple of problems with tenants but Engelo's team took care of it for me in short order.
Now, after the pandemic, I'm really glad that Engelo's requirement of cash instead of financing was the rule. I have a couple of tenants that have requested and been approved for government rent assistance and had I financed, I couldn't have kept the properties.
Goes to show you that you never know what's going to happen. Obviously, no-one expected a pandemic and near economic collapse.
I think my one bad decision was to own a duplex that didn't have the utilities split. Splitting utilities (getting new meters for gas, electric, and water) is pretty expensive and it's difficult to split the fees accurately between tenants. We're working to resolve that and I have to admit that I've been dragging my feet with the research and decision making.
On the bright side, I have a nice monthly income after expenses.
- 3yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Mark Wheeler:
Update - I posted about 4 years ago while in the process of acquiring my 3rd property.
Since then, I've had a couple of problems with tenants but Engelo's team took care of it for me in short order.
Now, after the pandemic, I'm really glad that Engelo's requirement of cash instead of financing was the rule. I have a couple of tenants that have requested and been approved for government rent assistance and had I financed, I couldn't have kept the properties.
Goes to show you that you never know what's going to happen. Obviously, no-one expected a pandemic and near economic collapse.
I think my one bad decision was to own a duplex that didn't have the utilities split. Splitting utilities (getting new meters for gas, electric, and water) is pretty expensive and it's difficult to split the fees accurately between tenants. We're working to resolve that and I have to admit that I've been dragging my feet with the research and decision making.
On the bright side, I have a nice monthly income after expenses.
Hey mate,
Thanks for the updated post.
I'll speak with the team now to see what we can do regarding the duplex.
You are in good hands my friend 🙏
- Member since 2021 · 2 posts · 1 vote3y
Hi all,
I’ve been working with Ohio Cash Flow for a few months and have just closed my 3rd property with them. 2 of the properties had tenants in situ and 1 is currently undergoing some rehab before it will be rented.So far, everything has been pretty smooth and if I ever have any questions Engelo or Lonna generally gets back to me asap.
OCF is the 3rd turn key company that I have worked with now and I would recommend them and the Toledo market! - 3yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Tom Donnelly:
Hi all,
I’ve been working with Ohio Cash Flow for a few months and have just closed my 3rd property with them. 2 of the properties had tenants in situ and 1 is currently undergoing some rehab before it will be rented.So far, everything has been pretty smooth and if I ever have any questions Engelo or Lonna generally gets back to me asap.
OCF is the 3rd turn key company that I have worked with now and I would recommend them and the Toledo market!Hey mate,
Thanks for the post.
It's been a pleasure working with you 🙏
- Member since 2019 · 45 posts · 63 votes3y
I had a horrible experience with them. Lost about $25,000 on the "fully renovated" house they sold me. Avoid at all costs.
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Zachary Schimenz:
I had a horrible experience with them. Lost about $25,000 on the "fully renovated" house they sold me. Avoid at all costs.
Well, since it seems like this thread has gone a bit cold.
Let's see if we can "re-ignite" the fire and get some comments 🤷♂️
My heart is worn on my sleeve and I got nothing to hide.
When we make a mistake, it's an honest mistake and we always do our best to rectify.
Never hiding or running away from problems.
We have been in the business since 2014 and are still here, chipping away through ups and downs.
We have stood the test of time and that speaks for itself.
How many other providers can say the same? Not many IMO.
We offer a firm approach and if treated with respect, respect is also what will be returned.
If we offered diplomacy we would be in the lobbying business or politicians and not real estate...
With that said, over the past 12 years of investing I feel like we have seen/heard it all.
Some investors are satisfied and others aren't not matter what.
Thankfully we have more satisfied investors than not and to the unsatisfied investors all I can do is apologize for not meeting their expectations.
With that said, I have also learnt that many who aren't happy from within, will never be happy with anything or anyone else.
No matter how much somebody goes above and beyond to meet demands and satisfy needs.
They thrive on drama and creating drama.
Problems must be had. Someone must be blamed. Like water for the thirsty. A "victim" must be found in order to satisfy the thirst of removing responsibility from thyself.
After thousands and thousands of investor calls (All recorded) and emails along with a tonne of data tracking, etc... I've considered starting a thread to reveal some of the disrespect, disloyalty, unfairness and greedy bull$@#% that investors put us through as a turnkey provider. And we "eat it" to this day and still try to assist until the "last breath".
It would sure be good entertainment for the spectators and if folks can post bad reviews on us, why wouldn't we be able to do the same and reveal some of the investors dirty laundry, right? hehe
Maybe another time if I get bored lol
Anyway, for more information on Zachary's comment from over a year ago. Here are a few links to continue reading and to come to your own conclusion:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/966369-rei-na...
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/1089655-warni...
Happy to reveal the curtain privately and answer any questions on the "horrible experience" and "avoiding us" at all costs.
Happy Investing 🙏👍
- Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes2y
Just for the record a ton is a US measure = 2000 lbs
A tonne is a metric/Australian = 1000kg = 2205 lbs
Although neither one would really apply to data tracking except metaphorically
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Account Closed:
Just for the record a ton is a US measure = 2000 lbs
A tonne is a metric/Australian = 1000kg = 2205 lbs
Although neither one would really apply to data tracking except metaphorically
Haha
Sometimes I say a ton and other times a tonne
Always go between the two with my metaphors
Will have to use “a ton” moving forward
Think like the Romans right? (Americans) haha
I still struggle with the metrics
Fahrenheit, pounds and miles lol
Much success mate 🙏👍
- Member since 2021 · 1 post · 2 votes2y
I bought two properties with Ohio Cashflow last year and worked directly with their founder, Engelo. I was pretty picky about wanting properties in A or B+ areas because I believed that the Toledo real estate market was due for a big boost, and those areas benefit from appreciation most. I was right - Realtor.com just put Toledo as the #1 real estate market in the country, and it's looking at over 8% appreciation over the next year. Markets just don't stay that inexpensive forever, it goes against economic principles.
Anyway, the experience was pretty easy. One of the properties had a tenant already in place, and when the rent increase didn't happen (was supposed to be in 2023 but now it's in 2024), Ohio Cashflow covered the difference. They stand by their word. The other property had a much larger renovation on it that took longer than the 45 days, so Ohio Cashflow started paying me rent while they finished working. What I'm saying is that the company stands by their promises.
Now I sit back, and they handle the management, and I do nothing w/ ~8% cap rates. I'm a remote investor (I live in California), so this was the best way for me to invest in the Toledo market.
The only negative I'll say is that if you're expecting a fancy renovation, don't, it's far from it. The properties are completely clean, rentable and liveable, but I was surprised that they left the horrendous floral wallpaper up haha. Whenever that house becomes vacant, I might fly out there and rip that wallpaper down myself :) - 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Kelsey Heath:
I bought two properties with Ohio Cashflow last year and worked directly with their founder, Engelo. I was pretty picky about wanting properties in A or B+ areas because I believed that the Toledo real estate market was due for a big boost, and those areas benefit from appreciation most. I was right - Realtor.com just put Toledo as the #1 real estate market in the country, and it's looking at over 8% appreciation over the next year. Markets just don't stay that inexpensive forever, it goes against economic principles.
Anyway, the experience was pretty easy. One of the properties had a tenant already in place, and when the rent increase didn't happen (was supposed to be in 2023 but now it's in 2024), Ohio Cashflow covered the difference. They stand by their word. The other property had a much larger renovation on it that took longer than the 45 days, so Ohio Cashflow started paying me rent while they finished working. What I'm saying is that the company stands by their promises.
Now I sit back, and they handle the management, and I do nothing w/ ~8% cap rates. I'm a remote investor (I live in California), so this was the best way for me to invest in the Toledo market.
The only negative I'll say is that if you're expecting a fancy renovation, don't, it's far from it. The properties are completely clean, rentable and liveable, but I was surprised that they left the horrendous floral wallpaper up haha. Whenever that house becomes vacant, I might fly out there and rip that wallpaper down myself :)Hi Kelsey,
Thanks for your kind words and praise.
We will keep doing our best for you 🙏
And will look at removing the wallpaper when the tenants move out (Hopefully they stay long enough when wallpaper becomes an interior design thing again lol)
Have a great day 🙏👍
- 2ySean O'KeefePro MemberCPA | Accepting new clients | 50 States · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 870 votes
Following - I'm based in California
- 2yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Quote from @Sean O'Keefe:
Following - I'm based in California
Hi Sean,
Happy to help if you have any questions?
Thanks 🙏
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