Ohio Cashflow LLC

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Ohio Cashflow LLC

Alex SImon
Investor · Howey In The Hills, FL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 37 votes

Has anyone had any dealings with Ohio Cashflow LLC? I've seen that they have a bit of a presence here on the BiggerPockets forums, including some informational videos that they put up (Yellow Ladder Tip of the Day). I was wondering if anyone has done any business with them or purchased properties from them. The company seems relatively new, maybe a year old from what I can tell without really looking deeper, but I'm hoping that someone here knows whether or not they are good for doing business with.

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Michael Vivilacqua
Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 25 votes
9y

My Day in the Life At Ohio Cashflow... I apologize for the long winded post.

I"m an out of state investor from Nevada, formerly from California (bye bye Cali). I realize this is an older thread but it was the first one that popped up when I searched BP for Ohio Cashflow... and I want to throw in my 2 cents.

I'm typing this out as I sit in my hotel room in Toledo (Hampton Inn is fantastic and close to the OCF office) after spending the day and evening with the team. I'm still trying to digest the day and that delicious rib eye (Thanks Engelo). But let me start at the beginning.

My wife and I are about to retire. I actually pulled the plug on the J.O.B. About a month ago which freed me up to travel to Toledo. We are moving to Central America this coming August and we needed a modest passive income stream to facilitate our minimalist lifestyle. We have sold it all (Except the Harley) including our primary residence that we had purchased and rehabbed ourselves over the past four years. It was a foreclosure and I did the rehab while we lived in it... we owned it outright and the sale was what we needed to begin our adventure in Turn Key properties. Our immediate goal was to acquire between 7 to 10 properties with a ROI between 3500 to 4000 a month. We were very calculating about our model and used a very conservative approach toward expenses. Keep in mind we are debt free and not interested in using leverage to get started.

I started my search for TK operators on the web and ended up here at BP. What an outstanding resource and I appreciate the time and effort by all the contributers here in the forums. Spending endless hours searching and vetting I had whittled it down to a few areas in the Midwest and the South. Memphis was first on my list because it was sexy and there was a lot of interest there. I spoke with a few operators there and we just didn't click. I'm not going to name names, but it just wasn't the right fit and it didn't match our expectations for our model. I moved on the the KC market and again... not a fit for us. Next was Indy, same story. Via email and phone and a lot or research we moved our attention north to Ohio.

It didn't take long to find the Dingo aka Your Favorite Australian. I made my appointment to talk to Engelo and he was actually the first guy to call me almost on time. 5 minutes late, we don't sweat the small stuff. Before I made my call I tried to dig up the dirt on him and his team. Nothing negative. Only positive. In hindsight I believe that anyone that has had a bad experience with OHF was probably not a good fit for this operator. I also watched a lot of his videos and Google walked the 5 Points area for days. The neighborhoods were interesting and I kinda fell in love with them. Spent time on Trulia and Zillo learning as much as I could about the area.

Our phone call was short and sweet. I was prepared with my questions and he had an answer for every one of them. He was everything I expected. Cocky, sharp and to the point. He asked for the good faith deposit and I layed down the 5k without hesitation. I shared with him my model with full disclosure and he put me in touch with Rebecca who sent me some deals. We crunched the numbers and walked with Google and made our decision to go with one to start.

The transaction was flawless and the communication between myself, my wife and Rebecca was outstanding and met every expectation. She asked us when we wanted to close escrow and we closed on that date. It took about 8 days. OCF introduced us to the title company and gave a referral for an insurance company (The one they use for their personal portfolios). Everything went super smooth... as if they knew what they were doing, LOL.

Bang, just like that we had our first property. Next we were introduced to the in-house property management team. Any questions I had about the PM were answered in advance by either Engelo or Rebecca. Our on-line portal was set up and all we had to do was wait for the cash to flow. 

I made my travel plans to visit the team in person, quit my job and said "Let's buy another one". I wanted to have a few under my belt so when I got to Toledo I could visit them. The second one went really quick too. Sweet little 2/1 that yields 8.7% return after our conservative strategy. If I'm not mistaken we closed on that one in like 5 days. It would have been 4 days but there was the Memorial Day holiday in the middle.

Low and behold, on the 14th of the following month the money hit our account. True to his word we received rent on the one property that didn't even have a tenant in it. Not one hiccup to this point. It's onward to Toledo.

I flew into Toledo and got in late. We had a little mix up with what airport I was flying into but Rebecca picked me up and took me to my hotel. I was going to rent a car, but she insisted in picking me up. A very nice gesture. It was about 12:30 in the morning. OCF truly works around the clock. First class service. Ahahaha, she would even let me load my own bag in the back and she insisted I sit in the front with the driver, her husband. He is also a member of the OCF team working in renovations. If I'm not mistaken he oversees renovations. In the middle of the night I'm firing off questions and they in turn answered them all. I'm surprised they didn't tuck me in. The nicest of people, I tell ya.

Engelo's personal assistant, GG, picked me up in the morning and took me to the office. Along the way, more questions and answers. GG is a delight. Right on time, no surprise. When I entered the office I was greeted by the controlled chaos. Everyone was busy but they all took the time to get to know me. From operations to property management.. then acquisitions and finally the Dingo himself.

Engelo was everything I expected. The guy is a nut. Passionate and full of life and love for what he does and the people he works with. You know that feeling you get when you meet someone and you just know you made the right decision??? Yep, I had that feeling. He was interested in me and my success. His success come from his investors success... the people that work for OCF thrive off of his energy and he has tons of it... oh to be young and passionate... and smart. I got the feeling that working for this guy was a commitment like no other. I liked it. You just feel like you want to be part of it. You want to get on the train... and I did!

Rebbeca took me on a tour of the neighborhoods and I got to see my properties. One that has a tenant in it we could only view from the outside. We don't bother tenants. She was miffed that the lawn was not mowed and made a note to talk to the PM about it. I noticed the new roof and that the rain gutter was pulled from the awning. She made another note and said there were still a few minor things that didn't meet her appoval and that they would be taken care of in short order. Sweet.

On our way to the next property she showed me a few more that they either owned, managed for other investors and even some that they were wanting to acquire. Along the way she was asking the other investor advisor that was doing the driving why they didn't own this one or that one. They wrote down a few addresses. We stopped by one property they had recently bought that had not had any work done on it yet. We went in and I just had to shoot a video of it. It was trashed... I mean wrecked. And smell???? The flys were everywhere. Someone had painted the face of Jesus on one wall (I thought it was the Zig Zag man...) On another wall the word "Sorry". There was crap everywhere. The kitchen was void of appliances and torn up mattresses in the bed rooms. "But can't you see the potential?" Rebecca said. I wanted to go down into the basement (we don't have basements where I live) but I couldn't. The smell was too bad. She did say something about removing the dead body before we got there... I wouldn't be surprised except for the fact that the nice neighborhood didn't seem like the type akin to harboring dead humans... but whatever.

On to my property that was under renovation and almost complete. I took some pics and video of it. The floors were brand new. Beautiful laminate in the living and dining... new ceiling fans too. Tough linoleum in the kitchen but the appliances had yet to be installed. There was a lot of stuff on the countertops, but they too looked new and modern. Fresh paint with the baseboards and trim in gloss white. Upstairs and bedrooms had new carpet throughout and the job looked well done. They had a guy working on the one and only bathroom in this old 3/1 home. He was working on the shower. Like everyone else working for OCF, this dude was cool. I didn't want to waste his time, but he was happy to talk with me. Earlier in the day Engelo warned me not to waste his peoples time. I know he was half kidding but I wanted to respect that fact that these folks had work to do and I was in the way of that... ahahahaha.

There is obviously more lipstick to put on this pig before it's rent-ready, but it's getting close. My only knock is the attention to detail, but again... it's not finished. I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product. What I mean about the little things is nothing more than getting paint on things that aren't suppose to have paint on them and no fresh paint that needs some. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the rent hit my account, tenant or no tenant.

After a little more touring and visiting other opportunities they took me back to my hotel. I contacted my wife and she gave me the go ahead to pursue two more. She ran the numbers on the ones I liked and they ran COC of 8.3% and 8.6% respectively. Both are 2/1's in what Rebbeca calls the "Shoe Store Neighborhoods". She likes to shop there... not for shoes, but for houses. I really like the 2/1's but so does Engelo. Keep in mind that as he helps investors build their portfolios he is building his own... and he likes the 2/1's too.

I took a quick swim and got in some exercise before GG, Engelo's personal assistant picked me up and took me to the office again. There is a lot going on at the OCF office. There is construction going on down in the boardroom. We goofed around a bit and Engelo demonstrated his robot... yes robot. Before Engelo, Dominic, Rebecca and myself went to dinner there was one final thing that had to be done before we could go. We had to move a few boxes and center the table. When I say center the table, I mean center the table... to exacting measurements. It had to be perfect. And it was. Can you say OCD??? He is a mad man.

The four of us had a lively conversation during and after dinner at Longhorn Steak House. Funny, we all ate rib eye cuts. We enjoyed conversation and sharing each other's passions, visions and even a little business. For me, the time I spent with the crew only solidified in my mind that I made the right decision investing in Ohio Cashflow. I say "In them" because I really feel like I'm part of the team, not just a number. Engelo promised last night that he would review the inventory and get back to with some deals. He would like to see me diversify in other neighborhoods and suggested we look at others before pulling the trigger on what I'd suggested. I like that. He has a great understanding of my model and is eager to help me attain my goals and to look at even a bigger picture... So, I'm typing this out as I wait for the call. I know they are super busy today and if I don't get the call today, it's cool... we don't sweat the small stuff. We will do more business, that I am sure of.

I hope this review of my day with OCF helps you. I know the window of opportunity is closing with the operator and in truth I suppose I'm a bit selfish and like to keep this gem to myself... but that's not what I'm made of. I wish only success for this business and look forward to growing with them. I also know that this is not for everyone. Engelo can bet a bit brash, but I really relate to that. As others have said they only deal with cash buyers which also isn't for everyone... but I will tell you that if this model fits for you, you can't ask to work with or invest with a finer operation.

I know this all sounds like its all roses, but I'm sure there will be bumps along the way. None so far, but I know it will come. When it does, I know my best interest will be at the fore front. It's just how these people do business.

Thank you for taking the time to read this... and again I hope you benefit from my day here in the Midwest.

Mikie V

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Granz:

    Hi all,

    I've been an investor with OCF since last year when I purchased my first property in July 2018.  I had a call with Engelo a few months before purchasing my first property and shortly after was on my way to getting started.  The purchasing experience was very simple and streamlined.  The property I purchased already had tenants which meant I started receiving rent immediately, which was a nice bonus.

    There were some repairs needed on the property, which was included in the purchase agreement.  OCF was fantastic about taking care of these in a timely manner, and also sending my pictures as the repairs were done.  I had one concern about the older heating system in the property and needing to replace it soon, but OCF was even willing to add a clause to the purchase agreement where they would replace it if it failed within the first year.

    Communication has always been top-notch, which is exactly what you want as an out-of-state investor.

    The estimated cap rate has been spot on at 10% so far, so OCF does not inflate the estimate to make sales!

    My only regret so far is that I haven't been able to purchase additional properties.  I would love to, but it would require taking on too much extra debt for my comfort right now.

    I highly recommend OCF to anyone looking for turn-key investment properties!  Don't even bother looking anywhere else!

    Chris

    Thanks so much mate,

    Your kind words put a smile on my face and make the team very happy.

    Our job is thankless at times so we thrive on such reviews.

    Thanks again 

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    G'Day everyone,

    I hope you've been well.

    It's that time again when I drop some wisdom on all of you :)

    I caught myself thinking the other day at how unsophisticated many of you are when it comes to the basics of real estate investing.

    I'm sorry for being so blunt but we are after all talking about your hard earned money or in many instances your life savings.

    And for whatever reason you don't take it seriously.

    Many of you are ignorant to the "red writing on the wall".

    One of those examples is on our companies investor application form.

    It clearly states that we only work with cash buyers but for 6 years now, folks still reach out to us wanting to finance.

    Many of you are then surprised as to why we don't sell via financing while we on the other hand are surprised at your continued ignorance.

    You see folks, when you are investing your life savings you just can't miss the little $#@%.

    You MUST conduct a tonne of due diligence on every aspect of that investment.

    You MUST know everything about the market, industry and company that you are untrusting your money with.

    You MUST be confident and comfortable in your decision making.

    Once you know what you want and have covered every angle, go and get it.

    If someone needs to sell you on financial freedom or passive income, then in my opinion you have a problem.

    We turn down a lot of business due to the above principles.

    We only take on investors that are focused/prepared and have done enough due diligence on Ohio Cashflow.

    Trust me, it's for your best benefit.

    I wish you all much success and happy investing. 

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Don’t Buy Our Properties

    G’Day guys,

    A while ago I wrote a blog about the 4 Reasons To Never Invest In Turnkey Real Estate.

    Many investors reached out and called me stupid and asked “Why I would write such a blog if I owned a turnkey company”.

    Then other investors (That didn’t know that I own a turnkey company) said “I had no clue what I was talking about and that I should research turnkey investing” lol

    To be honest, I wrote the blog to save my company and myself time.

    I could write a book on how many investors wasted our time and how we turned them down from investing.

    Mostly due to their lack of sophistication when it comes to the absolute basics.

    And I mean like reading/following basic prompts.

    Seriously… WTF

    It still mesmerizes me to this day how many people are just plain ignorant when it comes to doing due diligence.

    I mean guys, we are talking about someones life savings here.

    Money that took years of blood, sweat and tears to earn/save.

    Get serious and do you research.

    You need to know what you want.

    You need to have confidence in your decision making.

    If you don’t know what you want, don’t expect someone else to tell you what you should want.

    That’s just plain crazy…

    So with all of that said, here are some more reasons why you shouldn’t buy our properties or invest in turnkey:

    • 1) You won’t be able to finance.
    • 2) We control the entire process from start to finish.
    • 3) We make executive decisions on the repairs.
    • 4) You don’t get to choose the tenants.
    • 5) We charge a property management fee.
    • 6) There is no equity in the deal.
    • 7) You could get better cashflow and equity by doing it yourself.
    • 8) If you want to sell within 5 years, you will probably loose money.
    • 9) There is little to no appreciation.
    • 10) We can kind of have a monopoly in our market because everyone else is sucks so you are solely dependent on us.

    I can go on but I’ll stop there.

    I hope that I have turned you off from turnkey so you don’t waste your time or mine or anyone else's for that fact.

    As for the others that have done their research on our market, company and turnkey real estate in general.

    You know exactly where and how to fund us.

    Thanks and Happy Investing

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  • ChokSheak Lau
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Lost a lot of money with mismanaged rentals. Property manager Oz Realty tried overcharging me for maintenance costs, and refused to produce invoice for any work done. The owner Engelo is no longer contactable. Quality is going downhill and things are no longer as good as they were a few years back.

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @ChokSheak Lau:

    Lost a lot of money with mismanaged rentals. Property manager Oz Realty tried overcharging me for maintenance costs, and refused to produce invoice for any work done. The owner Engelo is no longer contactable. Quality is going downhill and things are no longer as good as they were a few years back.


    Hi Chok,

    Happy New Year.

    I’m sorry you feel that way.

    In my opinion we perform at an even higher quality than that of a few years ago.

    Also, I am always available to assist if an investor reaches out to me.

    You never did.

    I’ll get with my team after the holidays and I’ll reply in much detail since you have made this a public matter.

    I wish you all the best in 2020.

    Thanks

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  • ChokSheak Lau
    Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 11 votes
    6y

    Hi Engelo, thanks for your prompt reply. I'm not sure what you mean by I never did try to contact you. There is no way to contact you. Maybe I didn't have your personal email and phone, that's why. I think going by the comments from many, for the most part I think things could and should go well, as it did for me mostly before 2019. But 2019 is a disaster for me. My house was not rented out for a long time because the property managers were too lazy to take out the trash! Overcharging me for maintenance is also a big red flag. If you could please reach out to me offline, I will feed you with the details. In any case, happy new year!! Hope 2020 and beyond is better.

    1Reply
  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    With respect to the owner, who I briefly met at a conference, I don't like declining mid sized midwestern industrial towns.  Like Toledo.  There are some added risks to investing in turnkey properties in these areas.

    0Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @ChokSheak Lau:

    Hi Engelo, thanks for your prompt reply. I'm not sure what you mean by I never did try to contact you. There is no way to contact you. Maybe I didn't have your personal email and phone, that's why. I think going by the comments from many, for the most part I think things could and should go well, as it did for me mostly before 2019. But 2019 is a disaster for me. My house was not rented out for a long time because the property managers were too lazy to take out the trash! Overcharging me for maintenance is also a big red flag. If you could please reach out to me offline, I will feed you with the details. In any case, happy new year!! Hope 2020 and beyond is better.

    Thanks Chok,

    I’m one of the easiest people to contact due my online presence.

    My phone number and email are listed everywhere.

    I’m also on all social media profiles.

    The pure fact that I’m replying to you 45 minutes before midnight on New Year’s Eve speaks for itself.

    I’m very disappointed regarding your comments about my property management team.

    They are not lazy and they definitely don’t overcharge investors for no reason.


    Since you made this a public matter and are bashing our/my reputation, I insist on keeping it public for all to see.

    Thanks again and have a great evening 

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Hi Chok,

    I hope you had a great New Years Eve and start to 2020.

    I was able to briefly connect with the PM team and they are currently compiling all logs/information on the rehabs and maintenance.

    It will just come down to how far you want to take this but since you have moved on to a new property manager and caused our company enough damage with negative reviews across all online portals, I suggest not turning this into another saga or "keyboard cowboy" back and forth correspondence.

    The numbers on our end are showing you earning around a 6% "year after year" net return on investment for the 2 years that you have owned the properties (I have also discounted some since you have owned 1 property for 8 months longer than the other).

    This is a bit below our average of 8%.

    Also, the price that you have paid is lower than the price that we sell similar properties for now.

    So there has also been a slight appreciation.

    Claiming that you have lost money just isn't true.

    I've said it before many times and I'll say it again.

    Owning 1 or 2 properties in the Toledo market is just not going to deliver the desired result for any investor.

    In fact, I believe the same can be said for any market nationwide.

    Building a large portfolio (10+ properties) is a must and it also minimizes the risk.

    Just look at the great income you have earned on one of your rentals over a 2 year period.

    It's a shame that your opinion has changed of our company as only 10 short months ago you posted a very nice review on Ohio Cashflow (See in the attached).


    I guess maybe the new property manager had something to do with changing your view but that's how it usually goes with other companies that consider us competition.

    A much better way of resolving any issues that you have been experiencing would have been to contact me personally (Even though Lonna is my "right hand" when it comes to Ohio Cashflow's operation and I have full confidence in her as our oldest employee).

    We keep our operation intentionally small for the purpose of giving every investor our utmost and undivided attention and for everyone to able speak to me personally whenever they desire.

    As @Account Closed and even you in your above review have already mentioned. I am very easy to get a hold off and it's unfortunate that you took this beyond the point of return.

    Over time you will find out that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

    You questioned our integrity by claiming that we ripped you off through the rehab and maintenance.

    This is definitely not true and we have logs/receipts to prove this.

    With all that said, I'm sorry for disappointing you and not meeting your investment needs.

    We do our best but sometimes it just isn't enough.

    I believe that as of the 1st everything has been smoothly transitioned to your new property manager.

    If we can ever further assist you, don't hesitate to reach out as we would be more than happy to do our best for you.

    Much success

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  • Gordon Lu
    Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 7 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:

    With respect to the owner, who I briefly met at a conference, I don't like declining mid sized midwestern industrial towns.  Like Toledo.  There are some added risks to investing in turnkey properties in these areas.

    Why would you say Toledo is declining? Without looking at data, it seems to be growing to me as I live there  

    2Reply
  • Stone Jin
    Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Gordon Lu:
    Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:

    With respect to the owner, who I briefly met at a conference, I don't like declining mid sized midwestern industrial towns.  Like Toledo.  There are some added risks to investing in turnkey properties in these areas.

    Why would you say Toledo is declining? Without looking at data, it seems to be growing to me as I live there  

     As someone who grew up in Toledo (1990-2004). I would say the Toledo of today has way more energy and positivity than the era I lived there full time.  I'm optimistic on Toledo especially the severely under served suburbs in terms of supplying affordable rentals.  If you look at census data, I would say high level it's losing population but real estate is micro level and there is plenty of opportunity.

    0Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
    Originally posted by @Gordon Lu:
    Originally posted by @Brian Ploszay:

    With respect to the owner, who I briefly met at a conference, I don't like declining mid sized midwestern industrial towns.  Like Toledo.  There are some added risks to investing in turnkey properties in these areas.

    Why would you say Toledo is declining? Without looking at data, it seems to be growing to me as I live there  

     As someone who grew up in Toledo (1990-2004). I would say the Toledo of today has way more energy and positivity than the era I lived there full time.  I'm optimistic on Toledo especially the severely under served suburbs in terms of supplying affordable rentals.  If you look at census data, I would say high level it's losing population but real estate is micro level and there is plenty of opportunity.

    Thanks Jim,

    For many years now I've been "preaching" that it's all about the micro economics and not what the broad spectrum of the wonderful world of the internet shows lol

    We work in only a handful of areas where there is and probably always be a solid demand from tenants and homeowners.

    It comes down to the surrounding infrastructure.

    It's also vital to have trustworthy people on the ground that act as an investors "eye's and ears, heart and soul".

    These people know the market inside and out (And in my opinion they know the market much better then what an inaccurate Zillow will show).

    In all honesty, I never was excited about Toledo's growth prospects.

    I'm still not to this day lol

    Why?

    Because I've travelled the country and have witnessed booming markets.

    Toledo is nowhere near when compared with some these "booming markets".

    I will say this though.

    I don't know of any other market in the country (Or the world for that fact) where you can get a solid B class property for $55,000 - $75,000.

    Toledo truly does offer one of the best "Bangs for your buck".

    Take it from someone with 1,000+ transactions under his belt.

    Thanks again and much success to all

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  • Stone Jin
    Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes
    6y

    @Engelo Rumora  LOL, not sure why everyone is calling me "Jim" this week from Toledo,  the girl at title just called me that yesterday.  Maybe I'll be Stone in Phoenix and Jim in Toledo.

    1Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Stone Jin:

    @Engelo Rumora  LOL, not sure why everyone is calling me "Jim" this week from Toledo,  the girl at title just called me that yesterday.  Maybe I'll be Stone in Phoenix and Jim in Toledo.

    F@#$

    Not sure how I missed that.

    Sorry mate.

    Jim suits you tho haha

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    G'Day everyone,

    Just wanted to write a quick post to "set the record straight" on the Toledo market.

    A few investors recently asked me if the Toledo market was "Booming".

    I can with full confidence tell you that it isn't and it probably never will...

    Many "Toledoians" might say that it is but in my opinion that is because they haven't educated themselves on other truly "Booming" markets around the nation.

    I will say this though, the Toledo market has probably never been better.

    Downtown is very alive with new hotels, restaurants and bars opening up.

    ProMedica Hospital is doing wonders for the downtown region along with other areas across Toledo.

    All of this is fantastic new but let's not confuse it with other "Booming" markets like a Texas or Florida for example.

    Cranes everywhere, new apartments being built, high population growth, jobs, tech, etc...

    Toledo and other Midwest cities will just never have the demand/appeal as some other areas across the country.

    Granted, I really don't know of any other market where you can indeed get a "better bang for your buck".

    Solid B class properties for the price of a parking spot like in some other higher growth markets lol

    Keep in mind that 1 or 2 properties won't make you rich so you must have a growth type mindset to do well in the Midwest.

    Building a large portfolio of 10+ properties will make it stable, safe and will provide a better long term return on investment.

    Thanks for reading and Happy Investing

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    G'Day everyone,

    Today I'd like to talk about a few misconceptions that I see in the market.

    I've been reading about many investors believing that they are getting a better/safer deal if they are using leverage.

    They believe this because of the fact that most lenders require an appraisal and a building inspection.

    So let me explain a few things and burst your bubble lol

    Many operations like Ohio Cashflow's will usually have a monopoly in the region that they operate in.

    They tend to be the biggest buyer in town so over time they establish relationships with city inspectors, judges, lenders and "Yes" building inspectors and appraisers.

    Many will enforce you to go through their "trusted lender".

    This might be to make the process smoother but it can also be to influence the end result.

    After 10 years in the business and 1,000+ deals under my belt, trust me when I say that it's not that hard to influence a building inspector or appraiser to "Bat" in your favor.

    Also, just think about the thousands of comparable sales sold by the same company that can now be used as a comp when conducting an appraisal on the target property.

    I don't really have a dog in the fight because we loose 90% of business due to our stubborn "No financing" policy.

    But I just want to point out some things to folks that might not know/understand how the wonderful world of real estate works.

    We sure do loose a lot of business because of our ways, but to be honest I'm proud of it as our boutique approach has enabled us to have one of the best reputations in the business.

    Recently a few folks have mentioned that Ohio Cashflow does not allowing building inspections or appraisals.

    This is not true.

    Every investor can freely conduct both.

    We just state that we won't fix all of items that the building reports shows.

    Why?

    Because inspectors are paid to find faults (Even it really isn't one) and many are so miscellaneous that they have nothing to do with the long term sustainability of the property.

    If you really want them fixed, we can arrange for our crew to do it and then you can pay extra for the unnecessary repairs.

    Fair enough?

    Regarding the appraisal.

    I am the first to say that the property won't appraise for our asking price.

    Why?

    Because since the GFC appraisers are known to be super conservative with their value estimates and they tend to use foreclosed comparable sales.

    We always justify our prices with a CMA that is pulled from the MLS (All comps are independent of any of our in-house sales) but we don't control what comps an appraiser will use and we are also not in the mafia business of manipulating a properties value...

    Buying using leverage or cash.

    Buying in your own back yard or on the other side of the world.

    You will need people to make it work.

    And at the end of the day it all comes down to trust.

    I ALWAYS tell every investor a simple phrase.

    "If you don't trust me, then don't invest with me"

    It's as simple as that.

    Thanks for reading 
     

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  • John Kantola
    Rental Property Investor · Seoul · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 1 vote
    6y

    Hello everyone

    I thought I'd write about my experience with OCF since it's coming up on 5 years now being with them as an investor. I had attended a real estate meetup in Seoul and Engelo was giving a Skype session at the time. I liked what he had to say and contacted him about becoming an investor. A few short months later and I was on my way to Toledo to check out their operation. He was relatively new at the time and I was impressed with his operation and vision for the future. I became one of his first investors and I've never regretted that decision.

    I've got several properties and will definitely keep adding after having taken a short break to have some kids, which is a point I'd like to make about OCF, I like my investments to be hands off and they make that happen. With 2 young children I don't have a lot of time to be worrying about my properties. When something happens I know I can trust OCF to handle it properly. I trusted Engelo and Dom very quickly and I'm convinced that my gut feeling about them was right.

    The properties have been great investments and like all real estate investments they have had their share of problems. I expected that and Engelo and Dom were very good at pointing out what could go wrong. I listen to their advice and I follow their recommendations. Those investors that don't will usually be the ones with negative experiences. I have had property issues but they were never negative experiences with OCF, in fact, they proved to me that I'm with the right company.

    2018 was a busy year. 2 tenants moved out within a month of each other (one evicted actually), refurbish needed to be done, I delayed on the payment for that and the copper piping was stolen from one of the properties. I didn't listen to OCF to make the funds available to begin work asap. During the pipe refit another issue with the city water line was discovered and long story short $9000 later I had 2 cash flowing properties up and running again. I don't see it as a negative year or a negative experience. **** happens in real estate and I fully accept that. At the end of the year I came out with positive cash flow and a certainty that OCF are the best in the business. They took care of the chaos and while that was happening I was purchasing another property from them so there was a lot going on and it all went smoothly.

    I've just had another tenant leave at the end of 2019. Refurbish done and new tenant just signed the lease. Took less than 2 months and I'm satisfied with that. It takes time to refurbish and then vet new tenants and I really don't understand why some investors expect their properties to be tenanted perpetually. OCF has always kept me cash flowing and I have no concerns about how they do that.

    Engelo and Dom are two of the hardest working and honest people I've met and I know that their investors are everything to them. Engelo even came to Korea to visit me and my family in 2017. I'll leave that tale for another post. They and their staff are what set OCF apart and I'm very thankful to all of them for the hard work and problem solving they do everyday on my behalf.

    Looking forward to the next 5 years...and another epic Toledo visit!

    1Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Kantola:

    Hello everyone

    I thought I'd write about my experience with OCF since it's coming up on 5 years now being with them as an investor. I had attended a real estate meetup in Seoul and Engelo was giving a Skype session at the time. I liked what he had to say and contacted him about becoming an investor. A few short months later and I was on my way to Toledo to check out their operation. He was relatively new at the time and I was impressed with his operation and vision for the future. I became one of his first investors and I've never regretted that decision.

    I've got several properties and will definitely keep adding after having taken a short break to have some kids, which is a point I'd like to make about OCF, I like my investments to be hands off and they make that happen. With 2 young children I don't have a lot of time to be worrying about my properties. When something happens I know I can trust OCF to handle it properly. I trusted Engelo and Dom very quickly and I'm convinced that my gut feeling about them was right.

    The properties have been great investments and like all real estate investments they have had their share of problems. I expected that and Engelo and Dom were very good at pointing out what could go wrong. I listen to their advice and I follow their recommendations. Those investors that don't will usually be the ones with negative experiences. I have had property issues but they were never negative experiences with OCF, in fact, they proved to me that I'm with the right company.

    2018 was a busy year. 2 tenants moved out within a month of each other (one evicted actually), refurbish needed to be done, I delayed on the payment for that and the copper piping was stolen from one of the properties. I didn't listen to OCF to make the funds available to begin work asap. During the pipe refit another issue with the city water line was discovered and long story short $9000 later I had 2 cash flowing properties up and running again. I don't see it as a negative year or a negative experience. **** happens in real estate and I fully accept that. At the end of the year I came out with positive cash flow and a certainty that OCF are the best in the business. They took care of the chaos and while that was happening I was purchasing another property from them so there was a lot going on and it all went smoothly.

    I've just had another tenant leave at the end of 2019. Refurbish done and new tenant just signed the lease. Took less than 2 months and I'm satisfied with that. It takes time to refurbish and then vet new tenants and I really don't understand why some investors expect their properties to be tenanted perpetually. OCF has always kept me cash flowing and I have no concerns about how they do that.

    Engelo and Dom are two of the hardest working and honest people I've met and I know that their investors are everything to them. Engelo even came to Korea to visit me and my family in 2017. I'll leave that tale for another post. They and their staff are what set OCF apart and I'm very thankful to all of them for the hard work and problem solving they do everyday on my behalf.

    Looking forward to the next 5 years...and another epic Toledo visit!

    Hey mate,

    Thanks so much for posting about your experience.

    Time sure does fly and real estate sure is a rollercoaster of a ride.

    We NEVER promise success and always stress the importance of "knowing" what you are getting yourself into.

    Our promise is to always do our best in any situation and to make decisions with investors best interest at heart.

    Will tenants move out, get evicted, cause damage, etc...

    Will repairs be needed, will we make mistakes, WILL I MAKE A MISTAKE???

    YES...

    This is called real estate investing and imperfection among all things.

    It happens.

    I stress the importance or building a large portfolio so you don't feel the impact of vacancy/repairs as much as you do when you own 1 or 2 properties.

    If the plan is to only own 1 or 2 properties, they don't even invest.

    You don't have to buy/build a large portfolio with us, just build a large portfolio in general.

    It's because of reasonable and understanding investors like you mate that have still kept us in the game.

    Otherwise we would have "wrapped up the laptop" and instead of offering an awesome service like we do, just built a large portfolio for ourselves and lived happily ever after hehe

    We don't NEED to do what we do, we WANT to.

    Big difference.

    Speak and see you soon mate

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  • Jon Aseo Jo
    Member since 2020 · 1 post · 2 votes
    6y

    Hello, I'm writing a review after a little over a year of investing with OCF. I have three properties with them. It's been a journey of faith trusting Engelo and his team, as I live in California and haven't seen my properties in person myself. I also had to trust them with the valuation since no brokers were used. It hasn't been perfect, but All in all, they have earned my trust, even when problems arose. I saw them always trying to rectify the problem with solutions. I also appreciate their quick response and efficiencies. 

    I'm gonna share a recent experience I had with them. One of my newer properties had a HVAC fail and leak in the roof after about 6 months of ownership. I didn't notice that happened until I checked that a big chunk my monthly cash flow went to replace and repair that problem. I was bothered that first I wasn't notified of the situation, and second that Such a big cost came up in less than a year of ownership (full disclosure, they paid half the HVAC replacement). When I brought the issue to the team, they acknowledged that I should have been informed and apologized for that. They also offered to pay full for that repair. I appreciated that they owned up to my concern and found a way to rectify the problem. 

    I would recommend OCF to those who are looking to jump in on turnkey rental property investment. 

    Jon

    2Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jon Aseo Jo:

    Hello, I'm writing a review after a little over a year of investing with OCF. I have three properties with them. It's been a journey of faith trusting Engelo and his team, as I live in California and haven't seen my properties in person myself. I also had to trust them with the valuation since no brokers were used. It hasn't been perfect, but All in all, they have earned my trust, even when problems arose. I saw them always trying to rectify the problem with solutions. I also appreciate their quick response and efficiencies. 

    I'm gonna share a recent experience I had with them. One of my newer properties had a HVAC fail and leak in the roof after about 6 months of ownership. I didn't notice that happened until I checked that a big chunk my monthly cash flow went to replace and repair that problem. I was bothered that first I wasn't notified of the situation, and second that Such a big cost came up in less than a year of ownership (full disclosure, they paid half the HVAC replacement). When I brought the issue to the team, they acknowledged that I should have been informed and apologized for that. They also offered to pay full for that repair. I appreciated that they owned up to my concern and found a way to rectify the problem. 

    I would recommend OCF to those who are looking to jump in on turnkey rental property investment. 

    Jon

    Hi Jon,

    Thanks for the post and your trust in us.

    We aren't perfect by any means but always endeavor to do our best for you and every other investor.

    I'm glad that we could rectify the issue and I hope that it's smooth sailing from here on and onwards :)

    Don't hesitate to reach out anytime mate.

    Have a great day and speak soon.

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  • Joey Kirkland
    Member since 2020 · 5 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    I have mainly only invested in Cleveland, but I have always wondered about Toledo. Whenever I look into it I see this company come up. Are they any good?

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joey Kirkland:

    I have mainly only invested in Cleveland, but I have always wondered about Toledo. Whenever I look into it I see this company come up. Are they any good?

     I've seen Engelo cut a promo without pants on...............Need I say more?

    3Reply
  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joey Kirkland:

    I have mainly only invested in Cleveland, but I have always wondered about Toledo. Whenever I look into it I see this company come up. Are they any good?

    Thanks for your interest mate.

    I think that we are pretty decent lol

    Our approach is very unique and we turn down a tonne of business.

    We are probably the most unsophisticated turnkey provider in the country but we can get away with it due to the limited business that we take on.

    We are small a small and boutique company.

    I always wanted to have a "Small but Great" business instead of a "Big and Good" one.

    When we F@#$ up, we fix it and that's why many investors love us.

    If you're interested in working with us, the first step is to fill out our investor application which can be found on our website.

    Thanks again and much success

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Joey Kirkland:

    I have mainly only invested in Cleveland, but I have always wondered about Toledo. Whenever I look into it I see this company come up. Are they any good?

     I've seen Engelo cut a promo without pants on...............Need I say more?

    haha, I've been working on the upper body for 18months now lol

    Getting ready for GQ hehe 

    Be prepared for some topless promo's hehe

    Jokesss 

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  • Engelo RumoraBusiness Member
    Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    How To "Exploit" The Current Market!

    G’day everyone,

    As much as I feel the word “Exploit” is somewhat disingenuous, in my opinion, it is exactly what you need to be doing right now. From a financial standpoint, exploit to the best of your ability the current situation going on in the world.

    To be honest, I don’t feel sorry for anyone that has fallen on hard times from a financial perspective. This is due to their greed, ignorance, and incompetence.

    The old saying goes like this, “Always set something aside for a rainy day”. Why many folks don’t do that is beyond me.

    So exploit, but be fair and honest in your dealings. Business is business. Charity is charity. If you intentionally are mean and do harm to others it will come back to bite you. If you do business in a firm and professional way, in my opinion, you are good.

    Personally, if I am ever so irresponsible, ignorant or incompetent that I am swimming naked in my business practices and someone comes along and takes advantage of my ignorance, it’s not their fault, it’s my fault. Exploit my errors and mishaps and take it all.

    You deserve it.

    Listen, please don’t take the above out of context. For those that know me, know my heart and soul are pure, but it is time to take advantage of what’s going on. We live in a world where if you don’t eat, someone else will eat you. And I don’t want that to happen to YOU.

    While others contract, you expand. While others are fearful, you get greedy. While others do nothing, you double down on EVERYTHING.

    I was fortunate enough to have somewhat predicted this $#%@ show that we have going on in the world right now.

    Not from a pandemic standpoint but more so from an economic standpoint.

    You can find out more about my prediction in this blog - Should You Pull Your Money Out of the Real Estate Market?

    With that being said, I’m pretty good at talking myself out of business for the benefit of others and have done so for the last seven years when it comes to my turnkey company.

    So I might as well do it again.

    I know we all love real estate as it’s a safe haven.

    Real estate is an asset that you can touch, see and feel and it makes sense in so many ways.

    But for those that can swallow the swings of the stock market, it is my opinion that you should be investing in stocks right now, not necessarily real estate. You can buy established companies at a 50%+ discounts. Some have good earnings growth, pay consistent dividends, and have very healthy balance sheets. But then again, what do I know? I'm not a stock guy. I'm a real estate guy so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    Still, here is my simple thought process and maybe you agree:

    Stocks go to $#@% first, then the economy, and lastly real estate.

    There are opportunities like this only once every 10 years or so where amateurs like you and me can do really well investing in stocks no matter what stocks we pick (As long as they are big conglomerates in the S&P 500).

    Diversify between 10-20 companies and hold for 12-24 months, if not longer.

    Sell and gain 50-100% on your invested capital.

    Invest in real estate (Buy and hold properties).

      Here is a chart of every 20% decline we have had in the last 100 years and the returns within the first 12 months when the market does finally take off and go bull.

      It is my belief that you can grow your wealth much quicker in this current climate by investing in stocks.

      However, as I mentioned above please take this blog with a grain of salt because I usually am the dumbest guy in the room and don't claim to be any smarter today then I was 12 years ago. I will say this though, I have been quite infatuated with stocks since 2008. I missed that market downturn because I was still very young and raw. I told myself that I don't want to miss another one so over the last 12 years I have sporadically studied Warren Buffet and his investing style. I've also been sitting on dry powder, or cash, since mid-2019 as you can read from the blog in the link above.

      I highly recommend these books to mold your thoughts/investment philosophy when it comes to stocks:

      It's fair to say that I've been waiting for this moment to invest for over 10 years and time will tell if my instincts were right (So far I’m up 30% and have bought in very close to the bottom. Beginners luck maybe or 10+ years of study and patience? lol). Never forget that you should only invest what you can afford to lose. This rings true not just for stocks but also for real estate.

      Happy Investing!

      ps. I’d love comments from folks that are invested in stocks. What companies do you own and why? If you share your picks, I’ll gladly share mine.

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