Ohio Cashflow LLC
Investor · Howey In The Hills, FL · Member since 2015 · 95 posts · 37 votes
Ohio Cashflow LLC
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Chico, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 25 votes
9yMy Day in the Life At Ohio Cashflow... I apologize for the long winded post.
I"m an out of state investor from Nevada, formerly from California (bye bye Cali). I realize this is an older thread but it was the first one that popped up when I searched BP for Ohio Cashflow... and I want to throw in my 2 cents.
I'm typing this out as I sit in my hotel room in Toledo (Hampton Inn is fantastic and close to the OCF office) after spending the day and evening with the team. I'm still trying to digest the day and that delicious rib eye (Thanks Engelo). But let me start at the beginning.
My wife and I are about to retire. I actually pulled the plug on the J.O.B. About a month ago which freed me up to travel to Toledo. We are moving to Central America this coming August and we needed a modest passive income stream to facilitate our minimalist lifestyle. We have sold it all (Except the Harley) including our primary residence that we had purchased and rehabbed ourselves over the past four years. It was a foreclosure and I did the rehab while we lived in it... we owned it outright and the sale was what we needed to begin our adventure in Turn Key properties. Our immediate goal was to acquire between 7 to 10 properties with a ROI between 3500 to 4000 a month. We were very calculating about our model and used a very conservative approach toward expenses. Keep in mind we are debt free and not interested in using leverage to get started.
I started my search for TK operators on the web and ended up here at BP. What an outstanding resource and I appreciate the time and effort by all the contributers here in the forums. Spending endless hours searching and vetting I had whittled it down to a few areas in the Midwest and the South. Memphis was first on my list because it was sexy and there was a lot of interest there. I spoke with a few operators there and we just didn't click. I'm not going to name names, but it just wasn't the right fit and it didn't match our expectations for our model. I moved on the the KC market and again... not a fit for us. Next was Indy, same story. Via email and phone and a lot or research we moved our attention north to Ohio.
It didn't take long to find the Dingo aka Your Favorite Australian. I made my appointment to talk to Engelo and he was actually the first guy to call me almost on time. 5 minutes late, we don't sweat the small stuff. Before I made my call I tried to dig up the dirt on him and his team. Nothing negative. Only positive. In hindsight I believe that anyone that has had a bad experience with OHF was probably not a good fit for this operator. I also watched a lot of his videos and Google walked the 5 Points area for days. The neighborhoods were interesting and I kinda fell in love with them. Spent time on Trulia and Zillo learning as much as I could about the area.
Our phone call was short and sweet. I was prepared with my questions and he had an answer for every one of them. He was everything I expected. Cocky, sharp and to the point. He asked for the good faith deposit and I layed down the 5k without hesitation. I shared with him my model with full disclosure and he put me in touch with Rebecca who sent me some deals. We crunched the numbers and walked with Google and made our decision to go with one to start.
The transaction was flawless and the communication between myself, my wife and Rebecca was outstanding and met every expectation. She asked us when we wanted to close escrow and we closed on that date. It took about 8 days. OCF introduced us to the title company and gave a referral for an insurance company (The one they use for their personal portfolios). Everything went super smooth... as if they knew what they were doing, LOL.
Bang, just like that we had our first property. Next we were introduced to the in-house property management team. Any questions I had about the PM were answered in advance by either Engelo or Rebecca. Our on-line portal was set up and all we had to do was wait for the cash to flow.
I made my travel plans to visit the team in person, quit my job and said "Let's buy another one". I wanted to have a few under my belt so when I got to Toledo I could visit them. The second one went really quick too. Sweet little 2/1 that yields 8.7% return after our conservative strategy. If I'm not mistaken we closed on that one in like 5 days. It would have been 4 days but there was the Memorial Day holiday in the middle.
Low and behold, on the 14th of the following month the money hit our account. True to his word we received rent on the one property that didn't even have a tenant in it. Not one hiccup to this point. It's onward to Toledo.
I flew into Toledo and got in late. We had a little mix up with what airport I was flying into but Rebecca picked me up and took me to my hotel. I was going to rent a car, but she insisted in picking me up. A very nice gesture. It was about 12:30 in the morning. OCF truly works around the clock. First class service. Ahahaha, she would even let me load my own bag in the back and she insisted I sit in the front with the driver, her husband. He is also a member of the OCF team working in renovations. If I'm not mistaken he oversees renovations. In the middle of the night I'm firing off questions and they in turn answered them all. I'm surprised they didn't tuck me in. The nicest of people, I tell ya.
Engelo's personal assistant, GG, picked me up in the morning and took me to the office. Along the way, more questions and answers. GG is a delight. Right on time, no surprise. When I entered the office I was greeted by the controlled chaos. Everyone was busy but they all took the time to get to know me. From operations to property management.. then acquisitions and finally the Dingo himself.
Engelo was everything I expected. The guy is a nut. Passionate and full of life and love for what he does and the people he works with. You know that feeling you get when you meet someone and you just know you made the right decision??? Yep, I had that feeling. He was interested in me and my success. His success come from his investors success... the people that work for OCF thrive off of his energy and he has tons of it... oh to be young and passionate... and smart. I got the feeling that working for this guy was a commitment like no other. I liked it. You just feel like you want to be part of it. You want to get on the train... and I did!
Rebbeca took me on a tour of the neighborhoods and I got to see my properties. One that has a tenant in it we could only view from the outside. We don't bother tenants. She was miffed that the lawn was not mowed and made a note to talk to the PM about it. I noticed the new roof and that the rain gutter was pulled from the awning. She made another note and said there were still a few minor things that didn't meet her appoval and that they would be taken care of in short order. Sweet.
On our way to the next property she showed me a few more that they either owned, managed for other investors and even some that they were wanting to acquire. Along the way she was asking the other investor advisor that was doing the driving why they didn't own this one or that one. They wrote down a few addresses. We stopped by one property they had recently bought that had not had any work done on it yet. We went in and I just had to shoot a video of it. It was trashed... I mean wrecked. And smell???? The flys were everywhere. Someone had painted the face of Jesus on one wall (I thought it was the Zig Zag man...) On another wall the word "Sorry". There was crap everywhere. The kitchen was void of appliances and torn up mattresses in the bed rooms. "But can't you see the potential?" Rebecca said. I wanted to go down into the basement (we don't have basements where I live) but I couldn't. The smell was too bad. She did say something about removing the dead body before we got there... I wouldn't be surprised except for the fact that the nice neighborhood didn't seem like the type akin to harboring dead humans... but whatever.
On to my property that was under renovation and almost complete. I took some pics and video of it. The floors were brand new. Beautiful laminate in the living and dining... new ceiling fans too. Tough linoleum in the kitchen but the appliances had yet to be installed. There was a lot of stuff on the countertops, but they too looked new and modern. Fresh paint with the baseboards and trim in gloss white. Upstairs and bedrooms had new carpet throughout and the job looked well done. They had a guy working on the one and only bathroom in this old 3/1 home. He was working on the shower. Like everyone else working for OCF, this dude was cool. I didn't want to waste his time, but he was happy to talk with me. Earlier in the day Engelo warned me not to waste his peoples time. I know he was half kidding but I wanted to respect that fact that these folks had work to do and I was in the way of that... ahahahaha.
There is obviously more lipstick to put on this pig before it's rent-ready, but it's getting close. My only knock is the attention to detail, but again... it's not finished. I look forward to seeing pictures of the finished product. What I mean about the little things is nothing more than getting paint on things that aren't suppose to have paint on them and no fresh paint that needs some. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing the rent hit my account, tenant or no tenant.
After a little more touring and visiting other opportunities they took me back to my hotel. I contacted my wife and she gave me the go ahead to pursue two more. She ran the numbers on the ones I liked and they ran COC of 8.3% and 8.6% respectively. Both are 2/1's in what Rebbeca calls the "Shoe Store Neighborhoods". She likes to shop there... not for shoes, but for houses. I really like the 2/1's but so does Engelo. Keep in mind that as he helps investors build their portfolios he is building his own... and he likes the 2/1's too.
I took a quick swim and got in some exercise before GG, Engelo's personal assistant picked me up and took me to the office again. There is a lot going on at the OCF office. There is construction going on down in the boardroom. We goofed around a bit and Engelo demonstrated his robot... yes robot. Before Engelo, Dominic, Rebecca and myself went to dinner there was one final thing that had to be done before we could go. We had to move a few boxes and center the table. When I say center the table, I mean center the table... to exacting measurements. It had to be perfect. And it was. Can you say OCD??? He is a mad man.
The four of us had a lively conversation during and after dinner at Longhorn Steak House. Funny, we all ate rib eye cuts. We enjoyed conversation and sharing each other's passions, visions and even a little business. For me, the time I spent with the crew only solidified in my mind that I made the right decision investing in Ohio Cashflow. I say "In them" because I really feel like I'm part of the team, not just a number. Engelo promised last night that he would review the inventory and get back to with some deals. He would like to see me diversify in other neighborhoods and suggested we look at others before pulling the trigger on what I'd suggested. I like that. He has a great understanding of my model and is eager to help me attain my goals and to look at even a bigger picture... So, I'm typing this out as I wait for the call. I know they are super busy today and if I don't get the call today, it's cool... we don't sweat the small stuff. We will do more business, that I am sure of.
I hope this review of my day with OCF helps you. I know the window of opportunity is closing with the operator and in truth I suppose I'm a bit selfish and like to keep this gem to myself... but that's not what I'm made of. I wish only success for this business and look forward to growing with them. I also know that this is not for everyone. Engelo can bet a bit brash, but I really relate to that. As others have said they only deal with cash buyers which also isn't for everyone... but I will tell you that if this model fits for you, you can't ask to work with or invest with a finer operation.
I know this all sounds like its all roses, but I'm sure there will be bumps along the way. None so far, but I know it will come. When it does, I know my best interest will be at the fore front. It's just how these people do business.
Thank you for taking the time to read this... and again I hope you benefit from my day here in the Midwest.
Mikie V
240 Replies
- Member since 2018 · 68 posts · 28 votes7y
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
Originally posted by @Kat Hughes:
Wow. I just spent the entire day as soon as I woke up at 8am till now (12:45am) inhaling everything I could find about TK investing. I know that in the bigger scheme of things, that's not a lot of studying/researching but I did learn a lot today and looking forward to learn even more. I read through this entire thread, all 7 pages of it, along with any links that were attached. The one thing that stood out to me the most was how all communication done by @Engelo Rumora was detailed, but straight to the point and how he always listened and tried to understand any concerns/issues that were brought up and was quick in doing his best to make things right. And a lot of his replies were funny too which helped me stay awake as my eyes are now exhausted from reading all day. Currently selling one of our investment properties and will have cash on hand to invest and very interested in TK properties. Looks like OCF are turning more people down but would love to have an opportunity to connect and see if this can be a great long term relationship! Will fill out the inquiry form on your website tomorrow. :)
Hi Kat,
I am humbled that you took so much time to read through this entire thread.
I also suggest that you spend even more time doing due diligence on turnkey investing, our market here in Toledo, our properties and our company.
We never put any pressure on anyone to purchase as I'm a big believer in that investors need to know WHAT THEY WANT.
Myself or anyone at Ohio Cashflow for that fact shouldn't tell you WHAT YOU WANT lol
You need to figure that out yourself.
We love working with folks that are confident and comfortable in their decision making and in taking the next steps with us.
Our properties, market and company aren't for everyone and we get that.
So we truly want all of you to spend enough time doing due diligence before you reach out and take the next step :)
My message goes for everyone else reading this.
Even with our very rigorous investor evaluation process, over the past few months we have had many unsophisticated investors dealing in an unprofessional way by backing out of deals last second.
This is very non-genuine way of doing business and something that I have never done and would never do myself.
Due to this happening, it has reluctantly made us become even more stringent with our on-boarding process.
Thanks for your interest Kat and we are looking forward to being of service.
Yes, thank you for the advice. Will keep doing my due diligence in learning. My husband and I are going to look at this more in depth this weekend and we're hoping we have a clearer picture of where we want to go for our next deal. I do love what you keep saying about find the people first, not the place. Sometimes I think we get caught up on which market is good/not good but we forget that ultimately it doesn't matter how good the market is if you're doing business with people who are not good at what they do. So thanks for that reminder as well!
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Kat Hughes:
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
Originally posted by @Kat Hughes:
Wow. I just spent the entire day as soon as I woke up at 8am till now (12:45am) inhaling everything I could find about TK investing. I know that in the bigger scheme of things, that's not a lot of studying/researching but I did learn a lot today and looking forward to learn even more. I read through this entire thread, all 7 pages of it, along with any links that were attached. The one thing that stood out to me the most was how all communication done by @Engelo Rumora was detailed, but straight to the point and how he always listened and tried to understand any concerns/issues that were brought up and was quick in doing his best to make things right. And a lot of his replies were funny too which helped me stay awake as my eyes are now exhausted from reading all day. Currently selling one of our investment properties and will have cash on hand to invest and very interested in TK properties. Looks like OCF are turning more people down but would love to have an opportunity to connect and see if this can be a great long term relationship! Will fill out the inquiry form on your website tomorrow. :)
Hi Kat,
I am humbled that you took so much time to read through this entire thread.
I also suggest that you spend even more time doing due diligence on turnkey investing, our market here in Toledo, our properties and our company.
We never put any pressure on anyone to purchase as I'm a big believer in that investors need to know WHAT THEY WANT.
Myself or anyone at Ohio Cashflow for that fact shouldn't tell you WHAT YOU WANT lol
You need to figure that out yourself.
We love working with folks that are confident and comfortable in their decision making and in taking the next steps with us.
Our properties, market and company aren't for everyone and we get that.
So we truly want all of you to spend enough time doing due diligence before you reach out and take the next step :)
My message goes for everyone else reading this.
Even with our very rigorous investor evaluation process, over the past few months we have had many unsophisticated investors dealing in an unprofessional way by backing out of deals last second.
This is very non-genuine way of doing business and something that I have never done and would never do myself.
Due to this happening, it has reluctantly made us become even more stringent with our on-boarding process.
Thanks for your interest Kat and we are looking forward to being of service.
Yes, thank you for the advice. Will keep doing my due diligence in learning. My husband and I are going to look at this more in depth this weekend and we're hoping we have a clearer picture of where we want to go for our next deal. I do love what you keep saying about find the people first, not the place. Sometimes I think we get caught up on which market is good/not good but we forget that ultimately it doesn't matter how good the market is if you're doing business with people who are not good at what they do. So thanks for that reminder as well!
No worries at all Kat.
Yes, it all comes down to the people.
Find the right people and you can do well no matter the market.
Find the wrong people and you will do poorly no matter how good the market is.
Much success and I hope to speak to you soon
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
G'Day everyone,
Have you guys seen what @James Wise thinks about Ohio Cashflow and the Toledo market?
I suggest you check it out
I think that I'm better looking but he is probably better at real estate then I am lol
Thanks and have a great day.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:
G'Day everyone,
Have you guys seen what @James Wise thinks about Ohio Cashflow and the Toledo market?
I suggest you check it out
I think that I'm better looking but he is probably better at real estate then I am lol
Thanks and have a great day.
..............................................Fair.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
WHY do we only work with cash buyers?
If only I could get a dollar $ for every time an investor asked me that question.
You see guys, it's quite simple.
Since our price points are super low (Only $60,000 - $80,000).
Most of our investors have more then enough cash to purchase quite a few homes fairly quickly.
Thus, we don't have a need to wait for 6-8 weeks to hopefully get the deal across the line via financing.
To be honest, we also hate working with lenders and appraisers.
Most of them drag their feet and appraisers are super conservative these days due to the Fannie Mae guidelines that were introduced after the fiasco of the Global Financial Crisis.
So they are known to intentionally use foreclosed comparable sales to under-appraise properties just to protect their own A$$.
This isn't genuine and I've always believed that if you can't fix something or make it better.
You need to eliminate it.
That's why we have eliminated all financing when buying through our company.
I'm sorry.
Now, for all of you thinking that you are getting a turnkey property as a "safer" investment for "fair value" just because the turnkey provider offers financing.
Think again.
After being in real estate for 10+ years and buying/selling over 500 properties world wide.
I have seen all of the dirty tricks.
An easy one is to influence the appraiser by smudging their eyes with supposed work performed on a house that never really was.
Like a "converted attic", "newly installed HVAC", or a "rehabbed garage", etc...
Most are too lazy to check these items and will just mark them on the sheet as "done".
All of these items would unjustifiably increase a properties value in the thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.
At the end of the day, there are always going to be bad apples no matter what.
Your job is to find the good ones.
No matter how you decide to invest (With cash or financing).
Find the right team and you will do well.
Find the wrong one and it will end in disaster.
I wish you all much success and thanks for reading.
ps. Check out my latest Bigger Pockets blog on why all debt is bad. Click HERE.
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
New turnkey investor here, but I've been lurking for a while and doing lots of research. I decided to take the plunge with Ohio Cashflow a month or two ago and just closed on my first (of many!) properties with them today.
From the initial call to the final closing, Engelo, Dominique, and the rest of the team have been perfect. Their communication is timely, they do what they say they will, and they've been willing to walk me through the process.
I can't tell you how many other turnkey companies I spoke with, but there were a lot... and this was the only one I felt I could really trust and work with. Most of the others seemed flaky, didn't follow through, and often couldn't even call me at the times we were scheduled to call. If you can't make a call on time, how in the world am I supposed to trust that you'll take care of my property well?
So far my experience with Ohio Cashflow has been great. I'll update this in a few months after I've spent some more time with them!
- Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
I'm in the Washington, DC area and I've been interested in going turnkey for a while to get out of self managing properties, and to get higher cap rates. Enter the Real Estate Dingo and his Ohio Cashflow team. I purchased two houses since they're so inexpensive in the midwest. The process was very smooth, and he answered all questions along the way. The properties are in solid areas where you can see a good pride of ownership. They rented out fast after renovation at the expected amount. Communication is as easy as reaching your girlfriend you can text, email, call any time and expect a prompt reply.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ali Raja:
New turnkey investor here, but I've been lurking for a while and doing lots of research. I decided to take the plunge with Ohio Cashflow a month or two ago and just closed on my first (of many!) properties with them today.
From the initial call to the final closing, Engelo, Dominique, and the rest of the team have been perfect. Their communication is timely, they do what they say they will, and they've been willing to walk me through the process.
I can't tell you how many other turnkey companies I spoke with, but there were a lot... and this was the only one I felt I could really trust and work with. Most of the others seemed flaky, didn't follow through, and often couldn't even call me at the times we were scheduled to call. If you can't make a call on time, how in the world am I supposed to trust that you'll take care of my property well?
So far my experience with Ohio Cashflow has been great. I'll update this in a few months after I've spent some more time with them!
Hi Ali,
Thanks so much for posting about your experience.
From our initial call I knew that we would be a great fit for one another.
You made our job very easy because you are a sophisticated investor that conducted a ton of due diligence on us and you knew exactly what you wanted.
We admire this very much.
Thanks again and we are looking forward to being of service for many years to come.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I'm in the Washington, DC area and I've been interested in going turnkey for a while to get out of self managing properties, and to get higher cap rates. Enter the Real Estate Dingo and his Ohio Cashflow team. I purchased two houses since they're so inexpensive in the midwest. The process was very smooth, and he answered all questions along the way. The properties are in solid areas where you can see a good pride of ownership. They rented out fast after renovation at the expected amount. Communication is as easy as reaching your girlfriend you can text, email, call any time and expect a prompt reply.
Crikey Mikey,
Every now and then there comes along an investor like yourself that just lights up our office with laughter haha
Thanks for your comment mate and thanks for thew fun emails.
You should try knocking out a kangaroo sometimes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIRT7lf8byw
It's fun haha
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
*** Investors BEWARE ***
G'Day everyone,
Here are a few words of caution for all of you that are looking to invest in turnkey properties.
"Only invest what you can comfortably afford to loose."
Or "Only invest surplus capital that you won't need anytime in the future"
Investing in real estate should make your life easier and not make you live in fear because you have overstretched yourself.
You should NEVER jump "all in" with your life savings.
What if you don't like turnkey because you aren't in control?
What if you don't like real estate in general and prefer stocks?
Well once you go "all in", it's very hard to back out of it.
"Slow and steady" is what I tell every investor.
"Buy 1 and see how it feels. You can always buy more later".
Over the years I have witnessed many investors getting caught.
Some expected over night success by owning 1 property.
Others over leveraged and didn't get the desired returns.
And the unfortunate ones had unforeseen circumstances occur and had to sell.
I am here to warn all of you that unless you are buying to hold long term (As in 5 years or more).
You will probably LOOSE MONEY.
Yes, you will LOOSE MONEY.
It's as simple as that.
Also, as much we would love to but the answer is "No".
We won't be coming to your rescue anymore like we have done so over the years.
Our message to all has always been clear but for whatever reason many have failed to hear it.
Before you invest, make sure that you're finances are in great order as I have mentioned above.
Make sure that you have conducted mind boggling due diligence on turnkey investing, the market, provider, their properties and the after service they offer.
Only invest when you are 100% comfortable and confident in taking the next step.
For all that invest with Ohio Cashflow and decide to sell 1-2 years later.
Sure, we can help you.
But at a cost.
We will consider buying the property back from you for dirt cheap just like we would with any other distressed asset.
Or we will help you with selling the property for a hefty fee.
Why are we so harsh?
Because we shouldn't bare the burden of something that is out of our control and due to your lack of preparation.
Real estate investing is a long term game and ONLY invest if you are planning to play it.
Thanks for reading and happy investing.
- Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 9 votes7y
I have worked with Engelo and Ohio Cashflow for about 4 years now. Time does fly, especially when you’re working with someone who sells you houses that stay fixed up, and gets you steady tenants who are happy to stay. I’m in the process of selling a couple of properties in Columbus to consolidate all my Ohio holdings with Engelo in Toledo.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Helen Stella:
I have worked with Engelo and Ohio Cashflow for about 4 years now. Time does fly, especially when you’re working with someone who sells you houses that stay fixed up, and gets you steady tenants who are happy to stay. I’m in the process of selling a couple of properties in Columbus to consolidate all my Ohio holdings with Engelo in Toledo.
Hi Helen,
You're awesome :)
You're also one of our longest standing investors.
Although it's not always smooth sailing, I'm super glad that it has been for you.
Thanks for your trust and belief in us over the past 4 years.
Speak soon
- Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote7y
I have been dealing with Ohio Cashflow for about three years now. They are a solid company, the people are honest and trustworthy. They always have properties to choose from but I wish their website was updated with the properties more often. They will help you out with little issues which is good for people who do not live locally.
They like to operate on a customer hands off approach; basically you purchase a property then they run it, do the renovations, manage the tenants etc. they do everything.
Hopefully, they can keep the tenants and manage the business successfully long term.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Kerry Pardy:
I have been dealing with Ohio Cashflow for about three years now. They are a solid company, the people are honest and trustworthy. They always have properties to choose from but I wish their website was updated with the properties more often. They will help you out with little issues which is good for people who do not live locally.
They like to operate on a customer hands off approach; basically you purchase a property then they run it, do the renovations, manage the tenants etc. they do everything.
Hopefully, they can keep the tenants and manage the business successfully long term.
Hey mate,
Thanks so much for your kind words.
It has been a pleasure having you on board.
We like to keep all available inventory hidden from the public eye.
As our existing/trusted investor, whenever you are looking for a deal just let us know and we can custom select something for you.
Our approach isn't the most sophisticated or the best but it has worked well in keeping a level of exclusivity.
We believe in the "less is more" philosophy and that's why we aren't in a rush to pump sales like many other companies :)
Thanks again mate and we are looking forward to being of service for many years to come.
- Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 7 votes7y
I apologize for the novel, I struggle to be concise sometimes. Tl;dr: I currently have three properties with Ohio Cashflow and just requested a fourth because I trust in the team and believe it is a great investment.
I’m supposedly a unique investor for OCF because I actually live in the Toledo area as well. When I moved to the area 6 years ago I was very quickly impressed with the real estate market; especially how I could get an A Class property for ~$130k and easily rent it out for 1%. My initial strategy was to “house hack” (before I even heard of the term) and I bought/lived in one for a few years before moving to another and renting out the previous. I repeated this twice more for three A class rentals total, all financed with conventional 5% down loans.
Around the time we were getting ready to convert our 3rd A Class property into a rental while living in it, I was then married with a soon to be coming son. We were tired of moving so I wanted to purchase a property directly as a rental instead of living in it first. I planned for and saved 20-30% down for an A class property but hesitated to purchase as I was struggling with property management.
For the prior two rentals, I had hired a relatively small property management company (but was tied to a large broker in the area) who worked with an accountant and assistant and probably had around 100 properties. I selected this company because another option seemed to have high costs and fees for everything while most other companies weren’t interested or never even responded to my email/voicemail inquiries. Overall, with the company I selected, I was not impressed with their property marketing, tenant acquisition speed, handling of tenant setup, maintenance/repair response, and turnover response. However, I stuck through it for several years as I figured they were still relatively the best in the area.
For my next property however, I wanted to see if I could purchase turn-key somewhere else with a very good property management company. I did a bunch of research and ended up reading about OCF, which happened to be in my own backyard!!
At first, I did not think we would be a good fit as I planned to finance all my properties instead of paying cash. But I realized that I was already saving 30-40k to down an A Class property so getting ~50k for a turnkey isn’t much of a barrier.
I reached out to OCF and, true to their word, they seemed to work harder to turn me away than take my business. And as I mentioned earlier, they specifically did not want me because I was in the area and their experience with local investors was that they always tried to dictate too many miniscule details. Those investors basically felt that they could do it better themselves, in which case they should just do it themselves. I, however, had no interest in renovations nor property management; which is a big reason why I purchased move-in ready, A Class properties for rentals previously. Luckily, Isaac and Engelo were not unreasonable and asked to meet with me and discuss in detail. I believe they found that I was very reasonable and understanding of both sides and appreciated how I looked for win-win situations.
I put down a $5k deposit and they shared with me their deals. A few that I wanted were snatched up quickly by other investors but I was able to get a hold of one for $55k with 650 in rent. Not the highest but still close to what I was OK with. Besides, for me it was more a trial to see how OCF works than the specific numbers.
The acquisition process went really smoothly, enabling me to quickly turn around and refinance the property. I am fortunate that my local credit union offers HELOCs at prime+2 for rentals at 100%LTV so I was able to get most of the equity back out relatively cheap and painlessly.
The one rub here (and not against OCF specifically) is that the property only appraised for $30k. I knew this was a risk going into the deal as there are still foreclosures and distressed properties in the area; along with the Zestimate being at 29k. As Engelo has mentioned before, appraisers tend to ignore the fact that their properties are move-in ready and valued at the high end of the area; and blindly assume that nearby sales for 20k are representative.
Regardless, I was able to take the $30k out, acquire another $25k and purchase another property with OCF just a few months later. Once again, the property appraised low at $32k so I would only be able to extract $32k out. At this point, I was out of funds to acquire another property. Which was still a positive anyway for at least two reasons: 1) I can wait to see how OCF handles the properties and 2) my cashflow would be higher with less money being financed.
Luckily, (or unluckily depending on how I look at it) I was able to see how OCF manages a turnover about 8 months later. The tenants at my second property broke the lease and decided to move out at in mid-March. Unfortunately, I found out later that they didn’t pay for March rent either. It took OCF about 2 weeks to get the turnover scoped and quoted. The turnover included several items that caught me by surprise because only 3-4 months prior, I received feedback that the property was very well taken care of so I was not expecting to hear that there was 1) trash and debris, 2) two water leaks, 3) missing handrail, 4) detached door, 5) drywall holes, 6) missing door, 7) missing vanity, and 8) needed paint throughout totaling $3900. OCF inherited these tenants from the previous owner and I hope that their own screening process helps minimize future instances like this. They also rehabbed this property with the tenant in place, so I questioned whether several items scoped into the turnover should have been addressed with the rehab; but I did not stress this with OCF. I let this go because I was pleased with the speed at which the turnover was completed. Some rehab experts may scoff at 2 weeks for scoping/quote and 1 week to complete; but I have struggled for 2 months to get a contractor to fix a vinyl gate on a property I manage myself let alone the scope they handled in 3 weeks.
After the turnover, I was then informed that they had acquired a tenant to move in May 2nd, so basically, I was out 2 months’ rent, plus the $3900 for turnover, plus cleaning and maintenance $137, plus utilities $275, less their $700 deposit. Unfortunately, I found out a couple weeks ago that the tenant did not move in and another tenant had moved in on May 23rd; so, I was out a bit more rent. Ideally, I would have loved to have known that the first tenant did not follow through, but OCF focused on the important part of finding a replacement so I am still content. I still wonder whether we can go after the first tenant for lost rent from breaking the lease or the second tenant for not moving in, but I am not holding my breath.
Regarding maintenance between all properties: there have been charges almost every month with at least one property. Which partially implies that I should expect plugged drains, etc. to continue throughout. But to me this is a positive as it looks like OCF is taking care of the situations promptly.
Regarding tenant acquisition: the first property and second property was already tenanted when I purchased it. And I reviewed how I was happy overall with the turnover and tenanting process on the second property. The third property was vacant and ready to be tenanted in January; the middle of winter… With snow storms, we didn’t have an open house until February and had a tenant for March; but ended up giving March for free to entice them to move in. So, rent did not start until April; I lost 2 months’ rent but this went about as good as I expected.
For all the properties, OCF does require a reserve of $1000 per unit. From my research, this is relatively high and rare to have it per unit instead of per investor. Once I hit 4-5 properties, having 1k per unit is unreasonable in my opinion. 4-5k should be more than enough to handle even most major costs/situations. Once I hit this point, I will push for the reserve to be capped; and I believe OCF is willing to do this later too. Otherwise, this would tie a significant amount of capital that could go to funding another property.
Overall, the idealist in me believes that OCF can improve on their communication speed, thoroughness when responding to questions or providing feedback, and attention to detail regarding their management. And it would also be awesome if they sold their properties for less! However, the realist in me knows these are secondary and all the critical items I want in a property management company is present. The team is rightly focused on taking care of the tenants and properties instead. And why would they sell the properties at a huge discount if the have little/no issues selling them at market price!?
Today, with the turnover complete and having acquired enough funds to bridge the gap of the low appraisal, I have reached out to OCF for another property and am excited to see what they may have to offer. I’m hoping this next one appraises better and, since I’m a loyal customer(!), they may even let me do an appraisal before purchase; but even if it doesn’t, I’d still be happy.
Long term, I don’t intend to stay in the area so having a great company manage my properties is a lot more important than finding the best deals or doing all the work myself to save cost.
After a couple years with OCF, I am confident that they are the best property management company in the Toledo area, and likely one of the best in the world as they claim.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Gordon Lu:
I apologize for the novel, I struggle to be concise sometimes. Tl;dr: I currently have three properties with Ohio Cashflow and just requested a fourth because I trust in the team and believe it is a great investment.
I’m supposedly a unique investor for OCF because I actually live in the Toledo area as well. When I moved to the area 6 years ago I was very quickly impressed with the real estate market; especially how I could get an A Class property for ~$130k and easily rent it out for 1%. My initial strategy was to “house hack” (before I even heard of the term) and I bought/lived in one for a few years before moving to another and renting out the previous. I repeated this twice more for three A class rentals total, all financed with conventional 5% down loans.
Around the time we were getting ready to convert our 3rd A Class property into a rental while living in it, I was then married with a soon to be coming son. We were tired of moving so I wanted to purchase a property directly as a rental instead of living in it first. I planned for and saved 20-30% down for an A class property but hesitated to purchase as I was struggling with property management.
For the prior two rentals, I had hired a relatively small property management company (but was tied to a large broker in the area) who worked with an accountant and assistant and probably had around 100 properties. I selected this company because another option seemed to have high costs and fees for everything while most other companies weren’t interested or never even responded to my email/voicemail inquiries. Overall, with the company I selected, I was not impressed with their property marketing, tenant acquisition speed, handling of tenant setup, maintenance/repair response, and turnover response. However, I stuck through it for several years as I figured they were still relatively the best in the area.
For my next property however, I wanted to see if I could purchase turn-key somewhere else with a very good property management company. I did a bunch of research and ended up reading about OCF, which happened to be in my own backyard!!
At first, I did not think we would be a good fit as I planned to finance all my properties instead of paying cash. But I realized that I was already saving 30-40k to down an A Class property so getting ~50k for a turnkey isn’t much of a barrier.
I reached out to OCF and, true to their word, they seemed to work harder to turn me away than take my business. And as I mentioned earlier, they specifically did not want me because I was in the area and their experience with local investors was that they always tried to dictate too many miniscule details. Those investors basically felt that they could do it better themselves, in which case they should just do it themselves. I, however, had no interest in renovations nor property management; which is a big reason why I purchased move-in ready, A Class properties for rentals previously. Luckily, Isaac and Engelo were not unreasonable and asked to meet with me and discuss in detail. I believe they found that I was very reasonable and understanding of both sides and appreciated how I looked for win-win situations.
I put down a $5k deposit and they shared with me their deals. A few that I wanted were snatched up quickly by other investors but I was able to get a hold of one for $55k with 650 in rent. Not the highest but still close to what I was OK with. Besides, for me it was more a trial to see how OCF works than the specific numbers.
The acquisition process went really smoothly, enabling me to quickly turn around and refinance the property. I am fortunate that my local credit union offers HELOCs at prime+2 for rentals at 100%LTV so I was able to get most of the equity back out relatively cheap and painlessly.
The one rub here (and not against OCF specifically) is that the property only appraised for $30k. I knew this was a risk going into the deal as there are still foreclosures and distressed properties in the area; along with the Zestimate being at 29k. As Engelo has mentioned before, appraisers tend to ignore the fact that their properties are move-in ready and valued at the high end of the area; and blindly assume that nearby sales for 20k are representative.
Regardless, I was able to take the $30k out, acquire another $25k and purchase another property with OCF just a few months later. Once again, the property appraised low at $32k so I would only be able to extract $32k out. At this point, I was out of funds to acquire another property. Which was still a positive anyway for at least two reasons: 1) I can wait to see how OCF handles the properties and 2) my cashflow would be higher with less money being financed.
Luckily, (or unluckily depending on how I look at it) I was able to see how OCF manages a turnover about 8 months later. The tenants at my second property broke the lease and decided to move out at in mid-March. Unfortunately, I found out later that they didn’t pay for March rent either. It took OCF about 2 weeks to get the turnover scoped and quoted. The turnover included several items that caught me by surprise because only 3-4 months prior, I received feedback that the property was very well taken care of so I was not expecting to hear that there was 1) trash and debris, 2) two water leaks, 3) missing handrail, 4) detached door, 5) drywall holes, 6) missing door, 7) missing vanity, and 8) needed paint throughout totaling $3900. OCF inherited these tenants from the previous owner and I hope that their own screening process helps minimize future instances like this. They also rehabbed this property with the tenant in place, so I questioned whether several items scoped into the turnover should have been addressed with the rehab; but I did not stress this with OCF. I let this go because I was pleased with the speed at which the turnover was completed. Some rehab experts may scoff at 2 weeks for scoping/quote and 1 week to complete; but I have struggled for 2 months to get a contractor to fix a vinyl gate on a property I manage myself let alone the scope they handled in 3 weeks.
After the turnover, I was then informed that they had acquired a tenant to move in May 2nd, so basically, I was out 2 months’ rent, plus the $3900 for turnover, plus cleaning and maintenance $137, plus utilities $275, less their $700 deposit. Unfortunately, I found out a couple weeks ago that the tenant did not move in and another tenant had moved in on May 23rd; so, I was out a bit more rent. Ideally, I would have loved to have known that the first tenant did not follow through, but OCF focused on the important part of finding a replacement so I am still content. I still wonder whether we can go after the first tenant for lost rent from breaking the lease or the second tenant for not moving in, but I am not holding my breath.
Regarding maintenance between all properties: there have been charges almost every month with at least one property. Which partially implies that I should expect plugged drains, etc. to continue throughout. But to me this is a positive as it looks like OCF is taking care of the situations promptly.
Regarding tenant acquisition: the first property and second property was already tenanted when I purchased it. And I reviewed how I was happy overall with the turnover and tenanting process on the second property. The third property was vacant and ready to be tenanted in January; the middle of winter… With snow storms, we didn’t have an open house until February and had a tenant for March; but ended up giving March for free to entice them to move in. So, rent did not start until April; I lost 2 months’ rent but this went about as good as I expected.
For all the properties, OCF does require a reserve of $1000 per unit. From my research, this is relatively high and rare to have it per unit instead of per investor. Once I hit 4-5 properties, having 1k per unit is unreasonable in my opinion. 4-5k should be more than enough to handle even most major costs/situations. Once I hit this point, I will push for the reserve to be capped; and I believe OCF is willing to do this later too. Otherwise, this would tie a significant amount of capital that could go to funding another property.
Overall, the idealist in me believes that OCF can improve on their communication speed, thoroughness when responding to questions or providing feedback, and attention to detail regarding their management. And it would also be awesome if they sold their properties for less! However, the realist in me knows these are secondary and all the critical items I want in a property management company is present. The team is rightly focused on taking care of the tenants and properties instead. And why would they sell the properties at a huge discount if the have little/no issues selling them at market price!?
Today, with the turnover complete and having acquired enough funds to bridge the gap of the low appraisal, I have reached out to OCF for another property and am excited to see what they may have to offer. I’m hoping this next one appraises better and, since I’m a loyal customer(!), they may even let me do an appraisal before purchase; but even if it doesn’t, I’d still be happy.
Long term, I don’t intend to stay in the area so having a great company manage my properties is a lot more important than finding the best deals or doing all the work myself to save cost.
After a couple years with OCF, I am confident that they are the best property management company in the Toledo area, and likely one of the best in the world as they claim.
Gordon,
WTF mate?
I said give us a review and not a thesis haha
Your honest and detailed comment is much appreciated.
We aren't perfect by any means and screw up more than people know but we always do our best and make decisions with our investors best interests at heart.
We can't do more than our best in every situation :)
You have been great to deal with and we are looking forward to cutting you a fantastic deal on your 4th property with us.
Thanks
ps. We "claim" to be the best in the universe haha
- Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 7 votes7y
Originally posted by @Stone Jin:
@Gordon Lu I'm curious as to what kind of cashflow do you receive for $600 rent after PITI and management.
Also is OCF managing your class A rentals?
Thanks I’m advance
First property bought with $55k cash so no PI. $650 rent, 10% management, $65/month insurance, $635/yr taxes. You can do the math.
Second property, 25k cash, 30k financed with heloc with payment based off 15yrs amortization at prime+2 interest rate. $700 rent, PI $278, 10% management, 65 insurance, 595 taxes.
You can extrapolate from there for additional properties. Cashflow would be minimal/negative if I was to finance 100%LTV but since these are liquid HELOCs with equity pay down instantly available, risk is minimal/manageable to me.
OCF is not in the business of managing properties they don’t sell. In return for offering competitive property management, they deserve the payout from flipping properties. Though I am hoping that if/when I have more properties with them, they may help me manage the three I currently manage myself!
- Rental Property Investor · Chandler AZ and Sylvania, OH · Member since 2009 · 708 posts · 561 votes7y
@Gordon Lu Thanks for responding. This gives me great insight into how my strategy measures up to yours. I think for hands off investment, what you are doing is great. Best of luck with your future endeavors.
- Rental Property Investor · Netherlands · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 2 votes7y
Hello Bigger pockets people,
Are there any foreign/European investors here that have experience with Ohio Cashflow?
I would like to know more about taxes, LLC and wether you need to have an US bank account.
I was already in touch with OHC and that in combination with the research I did gave me a good and sound impresion.
I only wonder about some practical matters when investing in Real estate overseas.
Best regards
Max
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Max Van Hoek:
Hello Bigger pockets people,
Are there any foreign/European investors here that have experience with Ohio Cashflow?
I would like to know more about taxes, LLC and wether you need to have an US bank account.
I was already in touch with OHC and that in combination with the research I did gave me a good and sound impresion.
I only wonder about some practical matters when investing in Real estate overseas.
Best regards
Max
Hi Max,
The best advice I could give you and anyone else that is buying from overseas is this.
Unless you are looking to build a large portfolio and purchase numerous properties it isn't worth the risk, time and hassle for you as the investor and for us as the company.
There are many hurdles/hassles for foreigners buying in the US and buying just 1 property just isn't worth it in my opinion.
I even say the same thing to local US based investors that only want to buy 1 property.
Over the past 5 years we have noticed that the most demanding/disrespectful investors are those looking to buy just one property thinking it will deliver them financial freedom.
We have actually started becoming super stringent when it comes to our investor evaluation process because of this.
Thanks for your interest in working with us and hopefully we will get to the stage of serving your long term vision.
- Rental Property Investor · Netherlands · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 2 votes7y
Hi ,Engelo,
thank you for your honest reply :
i have watched all your videos, so I think I have a good view on OHIO cashflow , your way of working and your stance on investors at OCF.
I wouldnt consider myself an experienced investor in any way.
althougg I have been buying rentals in the Netherlands since 2009 and currently own 11 rentals there.
But I completely agree that you cant expect that 1 property will give you financial freedom.
So my ambition in the USA is to have 20 + rentals within 5 years.
i have got some reasons to start investing in the USA. One of them is that my wife is american and I also think investing in the rental market in the Midwest can give a better return.
So the Numbers look good to me in general, but I wonder if they still look good if I take all taxes and other things I might not know in consideration.
This is why I am curious to hear from other foreign/maybe Dutch investors,
so I know to which things I should pay attention.
Thanks again Engelo and maybe speak to you soon.
Originally posted by @Engelo Rumora:Originally posted by @Max Van Hoek:
Hello Bigger pockets people,
Are there any foreign/European investors here that have experience with Ohio Cashflow?
I would like to know more about taxes, LLC and wether you need to have an US bank account.
I was already in touch with OHC and that in combination with the research I did gave me a good and sound impresion.
I only wonder about some practical matters when investing in Real estate overseas.
Best regards
Max
Hi Max,
The best advice I could give you and anyone else that is buying from overseas is this.
Unless you are looking to build a large portfolio and purchase numerous properties it isn't worth the risk, time and hassle for you as the investor and for us as the company.
There are many hurdles/hassles for foreigners buying in the US and buying just 1 property just isn't worth it in my opinion.
I even say the same thing to local US based investors that only want to buy 1 property.
Over the past 5 years we have noticed that the most demanding/disrespectful investors are those looking to buy just one property thinking it will deliver them financial freedom.
We have actually started becoming super stringent when it comes to our investor evaluation process because of this.
Thanks for your interest in working with us and hopefully we will get to the stage of serving your long term vision.
- 7yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
G'Day everyone,
I hope you're all well.
It's been a while since I posted on this beloved thread so here I go.
Over the years I have corresponded with thousands of investors.
Some have thoroughly impressed me but the majority have extremely disappointed me.
Many of you have reached out to us wanting our product and service but have failed to conduct the most basic due diligence.
For example: Reading clear instructions on our website that we only work with cash buyers.
Than you get pissed off when we turn you down and don't want to work with you.
Ohio Cashflow doesn't compromise it's beliefs for the "almighty dollar".
We only like working with sophisticated individuals that have conducted a tonne of due diligence on the turnkey industry, our market (Toledo, Ohio) and our company.
If you aren't serious about where/how you are investing your hard earned money for a better financial future, then why should we be?
You need to know what you want and be confident and comfortable in your decision making.
When I personally buy properties overseas, I have already spent a considerable amount of time researching everything and anything to insure the success of my investment.
I don't waste people's time and a call is only made to finalize my findings.
I leave the window shopping for Via Montenapoleone in Milan, Italy lol
If you're curious, don't bother reaching out us.
If you're serious, reach out to us and we will gladly help.
Thanks and I wish you much success with your endeavors
- 6yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
G'Day everyone,
I have a funny but educational lesson to share with all of you guys today.
Especially all of my "alpha male" mates lol
I want you guys to STOP being egoistic A$$*****
Yes, you read that correctly.
Since we established Ohio Cashflow in April of 2014 we have had many good but also many bad times.
The life of a business owner/entrepreneur or even a real estate investor sure is a rollercoaster of a ride.
My biggest fault and some of my biggest mistakes as a business owner come from poor people judgment.
When it comes to picking employees, partners and which investors to work with and which to turn down.
This hasn't been my strong side but I believe with time and more experience I will get better.
Without a doubt, the biggest mistake I have made over the years is by not listening to the most influential individual ofOhio Cashflow's success.
My partner in business and in life.
The beautiful and almighty @Dominique Osborn.
Most of you don't know her as she works with the team from the behind the scenes (Behind every "lame" man, there is a great woman lol).
Making sure that everything runs smoothly and patiently fixes all of my F@#$ ups lol
She was the one that picked all of the losers over the years.
And for whatever reason, I didn't listen.
I think it was a BS ego thing.
So for all of you loud mouth and "loud ego" men out there like me.
Tame your bloody ego and listen to others that might be better at picking the good, bad and the ugly.
Women have a different instinct to us men and in my opinion are much better than us when it comes to evaluating people.
Let's call it the "motherly protective instinct".
Another thing.
When you call us to buy a property and say "I need to speak to my wife"
Big mistake.
You should say "Engelo, can you please speak to my wife".
Gents, I promise that my accent is much better than yours and I'll be able to sway the decision our way hahaha
Jokes...
Happy investing and much success
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 2 votes6y
Hi all,
I've been an investor with OCF since last year when I purchased my first property in July 2018. I had a call with Engelo a few months before purchasing my first property and shortly after was on my way to getting started. The purchasing experience was very simple and streamlined. The property I purchased already had tenants which meant I started receiving rent immediately, which was a nice bonus.
There were some repairs needed on the property, which was included in the purchase agreement. OCF was fantastic about taking care of these in a timely manner, and also sending my pictures as the repairs were done. I had one concern about the older heating system in the property and needing to replace it soon, but OCF was even willing to add a clause to the purchase agreement where they would replace it if it failed within the first year.
Communication has always been top-notch, which is exactly what you want as an out-of-state investor.
The estimated cap rate has been spot on at 10% so far, so OCF does not inflate the estimate to make sales!
My only regret so far is that I haven't been able to purchase additional properties. I would love to, but it would require taking on too much extra debt for my comfort right now.
I highly recommend OCF to anyone looking for turn-key investment properties! Don't even bother looking anywhere else!
Chris
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.