Mack companies Chicago
Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes
Mack companies Chicago
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Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 808 posts · 417 votes
10y@Christine Wagner sorry to hear that happened to you. I got a bad feeling when talking with Mack so I never invested with them (though I did invest in Chicago heavily). @Jay Hinrichs and @Brie Schmidt have created a site http://turnkey-reviews.com/ that may have helped you find an alternative provider. I have talked with many of the top rated companies on there and generally think many of those are amoung the better operators.
60 Replies
- 10yJohn CasmonPro MemberCincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Christine Wagner Sorry to hear about your experience, but thanks for sharing. I have not worked with Mack, but did just start looking into them last week as I will need a turnkey solution for my SDIRA investments. I did come across this other BP thread which may help you.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/217792-anybody-else-having-issues-with-mack-companies-in-chicago - Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes10y
Thanks John...After posting on this site one day suddenly I have had three phone calls from who? Mack. I am sure it is just a coincidence... No one has mentioned BP but at least I am seeing some action. We have elected to sell (now remember last year they charged us to "refresh it" for the new tenant, who stayed less than a year, and whom they vetted, and now it needs over 4K to make it market ready.. This for a property completely rehabbed in 2011? We were also told the area sales may not support the price we paid (imagine) So I urge you please be careful...The proforma they give you and the first year is not indicative of future results. Interestingly enough after the first year we traveled back to Chicago met with them again went on a sales tour thinking we were having such a great experience we would buy another couple. We actually made a full price offer on one...Strange as it seems, no one answered our offer...Three days later we were told it had been sold in a package to an "institutional" buyer, and they would substitute another house. We said no thanks..the best decision we could make in hindsight. You do have the luxury of living in Chicago and probably have a better feel...but again I do not think it is the entirely the property it is Mack management and their lack of interest in anything other than selling their inventory. Once you are in and not purchasing new properties, they have no incentive. We do have other TKs and we also buy trust deeds and notes, and find that with the right company they do work. With Mack however they own so many properties that when there are vacancies you are in direct competition with them for renters, so my guess is that the best qualified renters, and efforts go naturally to there own properties, That is why there are such long vacancy times for the rest of us. I blame myself for not figuring that out PRIOR to purchasing. Just be careful
- Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 808 posts · 417 votes10y
@Christine Wagner sorry to hear that happened to you. I got a bad feeling when talking with Mack so I never invested with them (though I did invest in Chicago heavily). @Jay Hinrichs and @Brie Schmidt have created a site http://turnkey-reviews.com/ that may have helped you find an alternative provider. I have talked with many of the top rated companies on there and generally think many of those are amoung the better operators.
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Christine Wagner yes feedback positive and negative is what turn key reviews is all about.
Plus there are pod cast done by Brie that are by Turn key buyers for turn Key buyers... very informative without sale pitch and hype..
- Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes10yHow many of Tks do you have. This year out of my 10 turnkeys three of them are losing money. I don't think that my experience is out of normal. This is a business and there is risk. But overall the portfolio as a whole that's what counts.
- Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes10y
Thanks for all of the input from everyone. To answer Lane K we have four currently, and three other rentals acquired but not TK, along with some other real estate investment that is not single family. The rentals are with management companies and carry their weight. The TK's are in Tenn. they too do okay but the broker markets them to Asia so we turn them over and take back a 5 year note secured by the TD. This has worked well, and we have a good relationship with them. That said we want to simplify. We are at a time in our lives when we are becoming risk adverse. More on the saga we got a market comparison from Mack's real estate arm today. The houses in the area are selling for about half what we paid per sq. ft. In many markets housing has stayed level, or bounced up from the recession lows, Obviously we paid to much. My hope is that others learn from our mistake...Lane are your TK's with Mack? Our loss looks like it will be in the 50K range when the smoke clears, but better to amputate, than bleed to death slowly. lol Naturally as an investor I know that losses are a risk we take, but when you are flat out taken advantage of, lied to and or ignored..that raises lots of other issues. I just wonder how many small investors who really needed supplemental income, used their SDIRA's etc and are now in big trouble here. The model is flawed, and some people are going to be very badly hurt. Age plays a part here too, if your forty and loose a few thousand, you can absorb the loss and go on. When you are in your seventies, your not making new income, you can absorb the loss but you can't recover it, time is not with you anymore.
- Wholesaler · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 126 posts · 39 votes10y
@Christine Wagner Your experience sounds similar to mine. Evictions (No communication), Drops in rent (No Communication), thousands in damages, months of vacancies and nearly impossible to get any response via email.
- Bethesda, MD · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 4 votes10y
I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. Just heard an ad for Mack on the BP podcast and wanted to check them out, considering the year 1 cap rate and coc promises. OP (and all), thank you so much for sharing your experiences, it really makes this community valuable.
- Tinley Park, IL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes10y
We care very much about all of our clients, partners, employees and anyone we work with. We invite you to come in for a tour to meet with us, see our facilities and our product and hear about our changes and future plans. Please contact us at any time. Thank you for considering partnering with MACK.
- Investor · Fairhaven, MA · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 88 votes10y
I appreciate the comments and information provided in this thread re: Mack. Strangely, when I was looking at turnkey companies in Chicago, there were no reviews for MACK, even though they are supposed to be the largest turnkey provider, and one of the first, according their own materials. At least there was some information posted on BP. Not sure it is worth doing any further vetting, if I can't find any further information in public forums on such a large operation.
- Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 73 posts · 44 votes10y
Thanks so much for sharing your experience Christine!
- 10yMike B.Pro MemberDeveloper · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 435 posts · 358 votes
@David Cornett, Some TK providers add up that first year return and add it to your purchase so the property doesn't have to actually perform, It just builds your confidence to invest. Beware of guarantees.
- Bethesda, MD · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 4 votes10y
Originally posted by @Mike B.:
@David Cornett, Some TK providers add up that first year return and add it to your purchase so the property doesn't have to actually perform, It just builds your confidence to invest. Beware of guarantees.
Thanks. It seems obvious now that you pointed it out. Honestly, turnkeys have to make a profit, so this means I really have to calculate my own coc estimates and see if it still makes sense given the purchase price.
- Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes10y
Haven't posted in awhile, but thought you all might want to know what has happened. In a word nothing. After paying the 4+K to make the house market ready, We were put with the sales end of Mack. We have an agent, and the house is on the market. Has been on the market at their suggested price for a little over a month...Nothing. No one had contacted us so again we reached out to the agent, who of all the people we have worked with is the most responsive. That said she said the house had only been shown 3 times in the entire month, and we were priced too high. (a price they suggested) We have lowered the price 10K about 15K less than we paid at the bottom of the recession. at this rate and after commissions and with the vacancies, and issues I am thinking our loss here will be more than 60K but it is too soon to tell. I guess the only good news is our liability is less, and we will eventually get a tax write off. Since as an ethical issue we do not believe in short sales we are just going to have to take the hit and move on. That's ok as investors we have lost money and made money. A house I just put on the market in Calif, sold in four days multiple offers and over asking. The issue here for us is how we were taken in by Mack...How poorly we were treated, how inefficient and dishonest they are. Nothing will make us whole, but I so hope that people will read these forums and not make the same mistake. Good luck to all
- Investor · Wauconda, IL · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 0 votes10y
Thank you for sharing this experience. I am somewhat new to the Chicago market, so I will avoid Mack like the plague.
- Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2014 · 92 posts · 87 votes10y
@Christine Wagner , apologies if you've already shared this, but would you mind sharing which neighborhoods these properties were in and any details on the work that was done to refresh the properties to make them rent-ready?
- Investor · Fairhaven, MA · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 88 votes10yThanks for the update Christine Wagner . It certainly helps as a reminder to me that turnkey properties are not without risk, even from a large, experienced company. I also find it interesting that there are no folks posting positive reviews/experiences with Mack Investments on the BP forums. I did check out Mack investments because I saw them advertised in a BP email, but didn't go beyond a few phone calls. I am looking elsewhere for providers in Chicago because even though the materials that Mack Investments have (brochures, website, pro-forma) look nice, I haven't gotten the right responses in terms of customer service, particularly on the property management side of things.
- 10yMark AinleyBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Roselle, IL (Chicago Suburb) · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Christine Wagner that is terrible news. Did they offer you anything to help offset the loss?
My personal experience in most things is a bigger company isn't always better. Especially when customer service is piece of what they need to do. When a company starts out, there are usually only a few employees and as their customer you get to interact directly with the owner. As a company grows, the distance between you and the owner gets larger and larger and the customer moves from being a person to being a statistic. It changes from, how was Sally's experience to how many sales did we make last week. The guy making the sales is incentivized not by the customer experience but the the sale.
GC Realty & Development LLC4.61085 Reviews - Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes10y
Hi Keith..in answer to your question, the property was/is in South Holland...and while that is certainly not the best neighborhood in Chicago, we were assured that because of their vetting and the "system" they use to qualify renters we would get good working class renters. Instead we were at one point called by the Police Chief of SH to complain that there were drug dealers, and a convicted felon at our property. As well as someone who had committed serious crimes. Mack was contacted but said they were looking into it. SH police threatened to fine us, etc...Finally they were evicted, and the house sat empty for months...The "refreshes" generally are screens, doors, some plumbing when necessary, paint, blinds etc. To make it sale ready we had to replace the carpet. Nothing unusual if the property was leased for a solid year or more, but that seldom happened the renters stayed a few months, quit paying rent, and then had to be evicted. No communication from Mack..when we didn't get paid we would contact them, and they would give us the same story, the next renter would be better...etc. To Mark...you must be joking not only did they not offer I wrote a long letter to Mack Sr. since I couldn't get to him by phone or email...It was neither acknowledged or answered, let alone making some kind of offer.
- Investor · Cambridge, MA · Member since 2014 · 92 posts · 87 votes10yThanks Christine Wagner for the detail. I also own in South Holland... :/
- Professional · Hoffman Estates, IL · Member since 2015 · 9 posts · 3 votes10y
Hello All, full disclosure I am in the Sales Department for MACK Companies and have been reading through these threads in their entirety. @Christine Wagner I truly am sorry that your experience with MACK has not been the most pleasant. I had to do some digging to get more info on your home and file as I was not in the picture when you initially purchased this property. I am personally taking an active approach to get you to a better place to include meeting with the owner himself and reaching out to you offline. I do want to clear the air and state that South Holland is a great area and if you do your homework on the city you will find great indicators of a healthy community with higher home ownership ratios vs. renters, median home prices of 160K, median incomes of 65K, low crime rates etc... Again, Christine I truly apologize on behalf of MACK and I will say that we are committed to continually improving our systems and processes for the benefit of our clients and investors. There is no question that we value our clients and our priority is our investors as there would be no MACK without them. With that said, this is not and will never be the typical way that MACK does business and is not representative of our typical investor's experiences. As real estate investors, I know we could all agree that this is a dynamic industry that we work in and bumps along the road to financial independence do and will forever occur. As an active investor myself, I understand the reasons for concerns and would welcome a phone call from anyone to speak about them, our company, or real estate in general as I am truly passionate about helping people build wealth through real estate investing. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you all and I wish you all the best in your real estate endeavors.
- Real Estate Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2012 · 240 posts · 45 votes10y
To @Christine Wagner I too share in your frustrations. The level of service and the commitment of communications leave much to be desired. When (and if) I receive the monthly statements (the past 4 months I need to call them to have them forwarded) I see charges for maintenance and repairs. These are listed as a line item with no additional information. I would call and ask for copies of repair orders and would only receive an email in return with a one-line description of the repair.I have informed them that I am in need of repair order to keep accurate records of expenses completed on the property and would like to have before and after pictures of the repair (something that I get from other Property Management Companies). NO response
In addition to the repair cost when there is turnover or evictions there is always charges for Lawyers.Lawyers that are going after a garnishment to recapture lost rents.Somehow I always get the charges for the Lawyers but have never seen a reimbursement for lost rents… I guess Mack gets to keep these monies.And as yourself never a communication that the property is vacant and if I want to have a lawyer go after garnishments, only a bill for $150.00
By contract with Mack, I am to receive my disbursement for rents collected by the 20th of each month.Today is the 26th and still no monies have been received within my bank account and mortgage is due…
- Investor · Fairhaven, MA · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 88 votes10y
Just as a follow-up from previous post:
As part of other parts of due diligence, I called a few investors who work with MACK currently. All three owned >7 properties with MACK and thought all the actual numbers lined up with the pro-formas. In fact, from speaking with them, MACK seemed like an excellent company to work with and invest with. These folks had all purchased 2 years ago or more, and so had a few years of data (beyond the first year rental guarantees).
So, at the end of the day, I put MACK on my 'check them out again someday' list. I'm still interested in the Chicago and surrounding areas for properties. But, as Jose Flores pointed out, the posts on BiggerPockets are quite disturbing, and there isn't much else in the way of posted reviews to counter them. I was heartened to hear the positive verbal input from other investors/references who invest with MACK, but that wasn't enough to make me fly out there to meet the team at this time.
Note that I do not own any MACK properties, nor am I planning on purchasing any within the next few months, so I'm posting this purely to add to the overall discussion.
- Investor · Canyon Country, CA · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 18 votes10y
Hello all..I have been traveling and not on the site. As a reply to Jose...Your posting is interesting. You have all of my personal information, and the ability to call email, write.. If you had any interest in contacting me or having Mack senior respond. It would have been easy to do. Posting to the site is not actually helping a client, and as usual no response actually came to us from Mack. It makes me feel that you are simply using the "we will help you" as a marketing tool to try to offset negative press. I think people are smarter than you give them credit for As I said before we are trying to sell the property,,,We have lowered the price and hope that will help. I also take exception with the description of the South Holland community. Either Mack is renting to anyone with a heartbeat or the pool of renters is subpar, We did not have any long term renter or even one that paid rent for a year. Some being dangerous, In our dealings with MACK in the beginning we were told of the long lists of qualified renters well vetted. This is not true. To Tim...I sure understand your pain and frustration...my advice is to take a hit if necessary cut your losses and get out, it will not get better. We stuck with it for five years and it only got worse over time. If you are not getting a check it is probably because your renter is another subpar applicant, not paying, and soon the eviction costs will come. It is a bit of a scheme I think, rent to a bad renter, then go to court for fees, they keep the fees, and then charge to get it "rent ready" then another sub par applicant, and repeat. We have spent thousands and we can't even sell it for what we paid for it. Onward.
- Real Estate Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2012 · 240 posts · 45 votes10y
I received the following this day from Mack:
Mack’s investor payout schedule has changed until further notice. Payments and statements will begin to be processed and sent beginning the 20th of the month or 1st business day thereafter and in the month following the reporting period, with a goal of all payments being sent before the end of the same month.
Now they are changing the way we will be reimbursed so that they can sit with our money longer.... Funny my contract with them states that disbursements will take place on the 20th of the month... guess they did not read the contract...
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