Millennial's growing poorer

Millennial's growing poorer

Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Listening to people beat up on the young folks for having their student loans paid off. Look at this people born between 81 and 96 are getting poorer while the rest of us are getting richer. What this is really saying is people who own assets like real estate are getting wealthier and people with no assets are finding less and less opportunity.  I imagine any group whether it be blacks, hispanic, whatever that had a disproportionately lower share of assets is getting disproportionatley poorer.  Yes, buy real estate and cash-flowing assets, but next time you are complaining about a kid having their stupid transgender studies loan paid off be considerate of the fact this kid does not have the opportunities of the generations before him.  And as mighty and righteous as you are maybe don't lecture these millennials quite as much about how hard you had it and all the jobs you had when you were 12 years old, they didn't invent helicopter parenting they are the victims of it. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...

31Reply
422 views

Most Popular Reply

Scott TrenchPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
4y

I believe that this data is about 8 years out of date. Millennial wealth has been skyrocketing, especially in the last few years. And, I believe Millennials are in great position to benefit from the economic realities that are ahead of us (in a relative sense). 

Millennials are benefitting disproportionately from the great resignation. Millenial's net worth has doubled since the start of the pandemic.

Lower asset values mean that higher millennial paychecks buy a greater share of GDP per capita. 

Fed policy of easy money ballooned asset values for the older generations over the past 10 years. That's coming to an end and was the real insidious evil that kept millennials down and ballooned inequality. Jerome Powell will inflict pain on everyone, but millennials will be hurt the least as they are entering their prime earnings years, finally getting out of debt, and will be able to buy assets in a period of higher interest rates and lower real asset values - an economy that is more "sane" than the one we just experienced for the last 5-7 years.

 Older generations, particularly boomers, are exiting their prime earnings years. They must spend that wealth at some point. And the providers of those goods and services will be millennials. 

None of this really addresses your point, which seems to be to sympathize with student loan forgiveness. I think that's a tricky issue. I think it's great for the folks who receive the forgiveness, and a bit unfair to taxpayers who repaid similar loans or who did not receive a college education. I don't think people will ever agree on this one. 

One thing that I do think will be a benefit from the student loan debate, is that it seems that both sides can clearly agree that student loans are inflicting terrible damage on millions of individuals and society at large. 

We need to stop giving them out. And significantly reform them. If we care about this problem enough to spend $300B to forgive debts for current borrowers, surely we care enough about the next generation to prevent them from taking on unreasonable student loan debt the next time around?

My vote:

1) End all federal student loan programs, privatizing the student loan market 

2) Establish usury protections for borrowers (can't allow a 17/18 year old to get completely swindled as a "welcome to adulthood...") 

3) Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy. Eliminate that exemption. 

Within a few years, or perhaps overnight, the 80/20 of the absurdities in higher education would be eliminated. Tuition would plummet, worthless degrees would cease to exist (because no sane lender is giving an 18 year old $100K to study "fashion design" if that student can declare bankruptcy), colleges would eliminate the focus on "experience" classes would be harder, tens or hundreds of thousands of administrative positions at colleges would be eliminated, and ROI would be carefully considered by students, parents, lenders, and colleges.

See this reply in the discussion

200 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    4y

    My take on tuition rates, from my experience teaching at 2 different universities over the last 16 years, and of course having gone to two different universities personally while getting a bachelors, masters, and doctorate:

    1. State support for tuition sucks compared to what it used to be. The amount of state money that used to go towards state universities is a pittance compared to the past.

    2. The demand for college has exploded and, coupled with declining state support, the universities need more money to make up the difference.

    3. Students today *expect* a certain experience and standard of comfort, all of which costs a lot more money. When I started going to college a few years after leaving the military in the early 90s, nothing at my state university suggested high-living. Dorms had no air conditioning despite the fact that this is the South (OK, the mountains, but still). The library was ridiculously cramped with books falling down around you. All of the buildings had the feel of what they were - buildings constructed in the 1910s and 1920s and more or less kept up since then. I didn't live on campus - I had a family and a job - but when I compare today's dorms and buildings to then there's no comparison.

    4. Virtually all universities have a lot more administrators, which costs a lot more money as they cannot keep talent without high pay since these positions are prime farming ground for the private sector.

    5. Sports programs are a much bigger deal and universities spend a lot more money on these things despite the fact that most of them lose money. Issues like Title IX, which requires fair money spent on both men and women's sports, makes it worse. Sports used to be an ancillary function of schools, but as certain schools decided it was OK to pay head coaches more than the governor of the state it just put continual upward pressure on bringing in more money.

    I'm sure there's other thoughts in my head but it's pretty late and I can't think of them right now. 

    My biggest gripe with universities right now, including my own, is that they let too many people in that don't need to be there, and there's too much pressure on faculty to turn out graduates. In other words, the drive is for higher enrollment and higher graduation rates. Neither one of those metrics makes any sense when you're talking about whether or not anyone coming out knows a damned thing. Everything is constantly being dumbed down in order to lower the hurdles of enrollment and make sure more people graduate, from the curriculums to the class material and textbooks to the policies. I teach both undergraduate and graduate students. On the undergraduate level, if I have a class of 25-30 - which is a ridiculous class load, I am here to tell you, but they don't want to pay for more professors - there's a bell-shaped curve of how these people will end up on a grading scale. There will be 3 or 4 superstars, 3 or 4 flunkies, and everyone else in the fat middle. Unfortunately, virtually everyone in the fat middle down to the flunkies will be going *nowhere* because they put in as little effort as possible to end up wherever they are on the curve. Instead of being able to spend extra time and effort on the superstars, which is where the most effective focus would be, all of the time and effort is spent on the the people on the bottom and lower middle trying to keep them from failing. 

    Eventually, the professors get apathetic and just pass out grades like candy bars. I still give out plenty of Fs because I give you what you earned, but I'm under no delusions that most of those that end up with A's or B's are going anywhere either because you can see they are like the employees that don't get fired, but don't get promoted - they do just enough to keep you from opening up the position but not enough to actually shine. Yet there's still this push out there that we need to *lower* the barriers to entry into college, when what we need to be doing is raising them. Liberal arts degrees are not worthless, nor are they necessarily "worth less" than STEM degrees - the problem is that there's just too many flunkies running around with these degrees, for the reasons I've mentioned. It's harder - not impossible, but harder - to be a total box of rocks and leave with a STEM degree, so lots of losers gravitate towards liberal arts degrees, leaving the STEM population with a greater percentage of superstars and a lower overall level of degrees. *That* is what gives them economic firepower. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jon Martin:

    I have no problem with degree programs being priced relative to their cost. As for the non-resort public campuses, I imagine that if they were spartan in their services then I would assume (or at least hope) that the cost of tuition would also be lower. If not, then there is probably some administrative bloat and waste somewhere.

    Yes, there is a lot of administrative bloat in state colleges and universities but there is no reason state legislatures through their boards couldn't control that without gouging the rest of the university. 

    What colleges have become all too often is a factory for technocrats and the liberal arts have suffered as a result. 

  • Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Eric Bilderback:

    @Jon Martin

    College started out as a place for elite people from elite families to go and they would know about the history of our civilization etc.  Today (I don't think this is breaking news) it's more about driving a specific agenda like everything else when the government gets involved.

    As the Great Thomas Sowell said, "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible."


    Agreed. Beyond that, the US model of colleges/universities is an anomaly in the world. They don't have frat parties in Germany, China or Brazil with people drinking beer from red plastic cups on the front lawn of a 5000 SF frat house. The college experience is typically living at home, going to class, then coming home to have dinner with your parents and then doing your homework like you did all through high school.

    There are also very few people studying art, history, philosophy etc in developing world countries. If they are it is almost certain that they come from a very high social class. Most study the basic money makers: Law, medicine, engineering, accounting/business . .. . Very little else. Another thing I've noticed is that university starts 1-2 years earlier, and tends to finish in less years. Maybe instead of the last year of high school being young adult day care that is waste for many, have the serious students get some GE credit instead?

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y

    Note, I said developed countries not the developing world.  There is a big difference. There are fraternities in Europe but I have to say that the students I know who join fraternities in the US are typically not the same ones taking out student loans. Also, in Europe they have dormitories but they are not directly connected to the universities. Most students do not live at home. They don't usually start universities a year or two earlier, but if you are not college bound you will likely graduate at 16 and start an apprenticeship. A BA usually takes 3 years to complete and are much more specialized from the start. You are more likely to find philosophy majors in Europe than in the US. More and more students in the US *are* taking college-level general education courses while they are still in high school. My son took twelve AP courses while he was in high school. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @JD Martin:

    My take on tuition rates, from my experience teaching at 2 different universities over the last 16 years, and of course having gone to two different universities personally while getting a bachelors, masters, and doctorate:

    1. State support for tuition sucks compared to what it used to be. The amount of state money that used to go towards state universities is a pittance compared to the past.

    2. The demand for college has exploded and, coupled with declining state support, the universities need more money to make up the difference.

    3. Students today *expect* a certain experience and standard of comfort, all of which costs a lot more money. When I started going to college a few years after leaving the military in the early 90s, nothing at my state university suggested high-living. Dorms had no air conditioning despite the fact that this is the South (OK, the mountains, but still). The library was ridiculously cramped with books falling down around you. All of the buildings had the feel of what they were - buildings constructed in the 1910s and 1920s and more or less kept up since then. I didn't live on campus - I had a family and a job - but when I compare today's dorms and buildings to then there's no comparison.

    4. Virtually all universities have a lot more administrators, which costs a lot more money as they cannot keep talent without high pay since these positions are prime farming ground for the private sector.

    5. Sports programs are a much bigger deal and universities spend a lot more money on these things despite the fact that most of them lose money. Issues like Title IX, which requires fair money spent on both men and women's sports, makes it worse. Sports used to be an ancillary function of schools, but as certain schools decided it was OK to pay head coaches more than the governor of the state it just put continual upward pressure on bringing in more money.

    I'm sure there's other thoughts in my head but it's pretty late and I can't think of them right now. 

    My biggest gripe with universities right now, including my own, is that they let too many people in that don't need to be there, and there's too much pressure on faculty to turn out graduates. In other words, the drive is for higher enrollment and higher graduation rates. Neither one of those metrics makes any sense when you're talking about whether or not anyone coming out knows a damned thing. Everything is constantly being dumbed down in order to lower the hurdles of enrollment and make sure more people graduate, from the curriculums to the class material and textbooks to the policies. I teach both undergraduate and graduate students. On the undergraduate level, if I have a class of 25-30 - which is a ridiculous class load, I am here to tell you, but they don't want to pay for more professors - there's a bell-shaped curve of how these people will end up on a grading scale. There will be 3 or 4 superstars, 3 or 4 flunkies, and everyone else in the fat middle. Unfortunately, virtually everyone in the fat middle down to the flunkies will be going *nowhere* because they put in as little effort as possible to end up wherever they are on the curve. Instead of being able to spend extra time and effort on the superstars, which is where the most effective focus would be, all of the time and effort is spent on the the people on the bottom and lower middle trying to keep them from failing. 

    Eventually, the professors get apathetic and just pass out grades like candy bars. I still give out plenty of Fs because I give you what you earned, but I'm under no delusions that most of those that end up with A's or B's are going anywhere either because you can see they are like the employees that don't get fired, but don't get promoted - they do just enough to keep you from opening up the position but not enough to actually shine. Yet there's still this push out there that we need to *lower* the barriers to entry into college, when what we need to be doing is raising them. Liberal arts degrees are not worthless, nor are they necessarily "worth less" than STEM degrees - the problem is that there's just too many flunkies running around with these degrees, for the reasons I've mentioned. It's harder - not impossible, but harder - to be a total box of rocks and leave with a STEM degree, so lots of losers gravitate towards liberal arts degrees, leaving the STEM population with a greater percentage of superstars and a lower overall level of degrees. *That* is what gives them economic firepower. 


     head football coachs of SCC teams make super star money right MIllions a year I think. Football is a huge driver in College from what I see even here in Oregon the ducks and beavers its a religion .. When I lived next to Stanford university they have a team of course but pretty sure you have to make the accidemic grade to get in so therefor its tough for them to compete  and no ONE competes with the SCC basically. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jon Martin:
    Quote from @Eric Bilderback:

    @Jon Martin

    College started out as a place for elite people from elite families to go and they would know about the history of our civilization etc.  Today (I don't think this is breaking news) it's more about driving a specific agenda like everything else when the government gets involved.

    As the Great Thomas Sowell said, "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible."


    Agreed. Beyond that, the US model of colleges/universities is an anomaly in the world. They don't have frat parties in Germany, China or Brazil with people drinking beer from red plastic cups on the front lawn of a 5000 SF frat house. The college experience is typically living at home, going to class, then coming home to have dinner with your parents and then doing your homework like you did all through high school.

    There are also very few people studying art, history, philosophy etc in developing world countries. If they are it is almost certain that they come from a very high social class. Most study the basic money makers: Law, medicine, engineering, accounting/business . .. . Very little else. Another thing I've noticed is that university starts 1-2 years earlier, and tends to finish in less years. Maybe instead of the last year of high school being young adult day care that is waste for many, have the serious students get some GE credit instead?


     This outside the scope of this forum.  But I will indulge myself, the problem with Universities and education is it is the probably the destructive influence for young people and our culture in pushing the Woke agenda.  A big part of that is to demonize people (groups really) they perceive as unjustly "privileged."  I see this as why so many young men don't bother learning to fix things they taught to feel guilty and any achievement is illegitimate, and it destroys their ambition.  And everyone else is taught they are victims and they can't succeed and if you can convince them of this it is a self fulfilling prophecy, sadly.

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

     This outside the scope of this forum.  But I will indulge myself, the problem with Universities and education is it is the probably the destructive influence for young people and our culture in pushing the Woke agenda.  A big part of that is to demonize people (groups really) they perceive as unjustly "privileged."  I see this as why so many young men don't bother learning to fix things they taught to feel guilty and any achievement is illegitimate, and it destroys their ambition.  And everyone else is taught they are victims and they can't succeed and if you can convince them of this it is a self fulfilling prophecy, sadly.


    I like both Eric/Jonathan opinions, that's something that we would like to tell also. Actually, looking from the perspective of Asian American immigrants, there're many things in America that are considered "crazy" from an Asian perspective,especially anything related to education/school/university system.  

    Sometimes I just want to add something but due to political-incorrectness,I'd/we'd rather not make comments.  But I'm 100% agree with all of you.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    College/University has largely become a joke in the US. How many kids even follow their degree path (meaning that their career is in their major's field)? I bet the percentage is pretty low. 

    Add to that the partying and the political indoctrination and you have what amounts to a huge waste of time and money. Not for all, but for many I suspect....

  • Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Note, I said developed countries not the developing world.  There is a big difference. There are fraternities in Europe but I have to say that the students I know who join fraternities in the US are typically not the same ones taking out student loans. Also, in Europe they have dormitories but they are not directly connected to the universities. Most students do not live at home. They don't usually start universities a year or two earlier, but if you are not college bound you will likely graduate at 16 and start an apprenticeship. A BA usually takes 3 years to complete and are much more specialized from the start. You are more likely to find philosophy majors in Europe than in the US. More and more students in the US *are* taking college-level general education courses while they are still in high school. My son took twelve AP courses while he was in high school. 


    My comment regarding the university experience in the developing world wasn’t directed at you, nor did I realize that you even commented on higher ed in developed or developing world countries for that matter.

    Even then, in Europe the degree to which their dorms or frats resemble the  “Animal House” or “American Pie” type experience is a fraction of what it is in the states. 






  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Boomer here. My generation hardly had to pay anything for our education. We may brag about "working our way" through college, but that is because it was possible to do that back then. Nowadays when even a historically black state university in Mississippi costs nearly 20K a year, how can that be done? Those who try end up failing in school, I can tell you that as a professor. It used to be that states supported their own universities and colleges and tuition was minimal. There was no tuition at state universities in California before Reagan became governor. Tuition was $600 a year when I attended the University of California and it was waived if you had an SAT score above 1100. States got out of the business of funding higher education which left more and more students having to rely on massive student loans to get by. Mind you, these are loans being handed out to teenagers barely in a position to understand what they are getting themselves into.  Yes, this student loan forgiveness is just a band aid. The real solution is to join the rest of the developed world in offering state-funded higher education to all who qualify. 

    That is a false comparison, because there is also plenty of aid these days for "those who qualify" ie. good students.
    And any time someone is suggesting we join "the rest of the developed world" I know something is wrong with the picture. The rest of the developed world gets to waste a lot of money on social programs because we pay for their defense. Unfortunately, we can't act like them because the buck stops with us.
    I worked my way through school and graduated with high honors, anyone saying they can't is making excuses.
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Charles Clark:

    Great point...Our neighbor to the north comes to mind there......


  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Charles Clark:

    Great point...Our neighbor to the north comes to mind there......



    And to be clear, this is not a blame or "they did not pay their share" arrangement, its just a tacit recognition that post WWII the US took up the job of defending the "developed" world and spent tens of trillions of dollars to do so for the last 8 decades. Europe, etc. got to spend heavily on whatever social programs they wanted. Had we not done this Europe would basically be a garrison state, assuming they were not speaking Russian.
  • Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Charles Clark:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Charles Clark:

    Great point...Our neighbor to the north comes to mind there......



    And to be clear, this is not a blame or "they did not pay their share" arrangement, its just a tacit recognition that post WWII the US took up the job of defending the "developed" world and spent tens of trillions of dollars to do so for the last 8 decades. Europe, etc. got to spend heavily on whatever social programs they wanted. Had we not done this Europe would basically be a garrison state, assuming they were not speaking Russian.

     @Bruce Woodruff

    We protect Europe, invade countries in the Middle East, require our young folks go to war in order to keep the petro-dollar system going.  It lets Americans produce next to nothing and be the richest nation in the world, materially anyway.  

  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Eric Bilderback:
    Quote from @Charles Clark:
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Charles Clark:

    Great point...Our neighbor to the north comes to mind there......



    And to be clear, this is not a blame or "they did not pay their share" arrangement, its just a tacit recognition that post WWII the US took up the job of defending the "developed" world and spent tens of trillions of dollars to do so for the last 8 decades. Europe, etc. got to spend heavily on whatever social programs they wanted. Had we not done this Europe would basically be a garrison state, assuming they were not speaking Russian.

     @Bruce Woodruff

    We protect Europe, invade countries in the Middle East, require our young folks go to war in order to keep the petro-dollar system going.  It lets Americans produce next to nothing and be the richest nation in the world, materially anyway.  


    No one has been "required" to go to war since Vietnam, which had nothing to do with the petro-dollar and everything to do with making our assurances to Europe credible.
    However the de-industrialization of the US benefited Japan and Germany so perhaps add that to the ways in which we have subsidized their systems.
  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y

    That is a false comparison, because there is also plenty of aid these days for "those who qualify" ie. good students.

    And any time someone is suggesting we join "the rest of the developed world" I know something is wrong with the picture. The rest of the developed world gets to waste a lot of money on social programs because we pay for their defense. Unfortunately, we can't act like them because the buck stops with us.

    You have to be an extraordinary student to get "plenty of aid." 

    Those other countries aren't wasting money, they are investing it wisely. The NATO agreement was that every member would contribute 2% of their GDP for defense. If we did that we would still have the largest military in the world by far. I'd much rather see us "waste" money on things that actually benefit people than the military.  

  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    That is a false comparison, because there is also plenty of aid these days for "those who qualify" ie. good students.

    And any time someone is suggesting we join "the rest of the developed world" I know something is wrong with the picture. The rest of the developed world gets to waste a lot of money on social programs because we pay for their defense. Unfortunately, we can't act like them because the buck stops with us.

    You have to be an extraordinary student to get "plenty of aid." 

    Those other countries aren't wasting money, they are investing it wisely. The NATO agreement was that every member would contribute 2% of their GDP for defense. If we did that we would still have the largest military in the world by far. I'd much rather see us "waste" money on things that actually benefit people than the military.  


    I would not say I was an extraordinary student, far from it, yet I had no difficulty in getting enough aid that I could work on the side during school and graduate without loans. Many of my peers did the same. And I think there is a good argument to be made that someone who is not academically inclined should not pursue a 4 year degree. That is where promoting trades and other careers would be a good policy.
    I'm not even talking about the NATO agreement, that is just the tip of the iceberg. The Cold War cost trillions of dollars to keep the Soviets at bay. No 2% of GDP would ever have done that.
    As far as today, 2% would not leave us with much of a military. Few people realize this, but when pundits are claiming that the US spends more than the next X countries combined they are using nominal spending numbers, which are of course meaningless.
    When however we use spending numbers adjusted for Purchasing Power Parity US spending on the military is roughly equal to the next two contenders combined, Russia and China. Given that the US is at a significant industrial and manpower disadvantage compared to China this is likely a significant under spending on our part.
    There are those who say military spending is a waste, but if you think a strong military is expensive wait until you see what the cost of a weak one is.
  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y

    Only one country has ever invoked Article 5 of NATO's mutual defense treaty and it wasn't Canada. In fact, Canada came to our defense when we invoked on 9-11. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Those other countries aren't wasting money, they are investing it wisely. 

    That is your opinion only. And that's not really the point.

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y

    I would not say I was an extraordinary student, far from it, yet I had no difficulty in getting enough aid that I could work on the side during school and graduate without loans.

    Are you a Millennial or Gen-Z? Because if you are any older than that then you went to college went it was much cheaper and financial aid much greater. State legislatures got out of the business of subsidizing their institutions of higher learning which is what created the present situation. 

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Those other countries aren't wasting money, they are investing it wisely. 

    That is your opinion only. And that's not really the point.

    Let us know if you have anything worthwhile to contribute.


  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Only one country has ever invoked Article 5 of NATO's mutual defense treaty and it wasn't Canada. In fact, Canada came to our defense when we invoked on 9-11. 


    That's not the point either. We spend $800 Bil a year on our military. They spend only $20 Bil. If we weren't providing the safety net for them, imagine what they would have to spend. Oooops, there goes their precious yet highly overrated National HealthCare......

  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    Only one country has ever invoked Article 5 of NATO's mutual defense treaty and it wasn't Canada. In fact, Canada came to our defense when we invoked on 9-11. 


    This is entirely beside the point. Its not about anyone actually asking for help, etc. Its that we have to date spent well north of 10 Trillion dollars on arms which provide a protective umbrella over these "developed" countries. The fact that they have not had to invoke Article 5 is actually a testament to that. Had we not spent that money, these nations would either be bankrupt garrison states or speaking Russian.
  • Member since 2022 · 36 posts · 26 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Susan Maneck:

    I would not say I was an extraordinary student, far from it, yet I had no difficulty in getting enough aid that I could work on the side during school and graduate without loans.

    Are you a Millennial or Gen-Z? Because if you are any older than that then you went to college went it was much cheaper and financial aid much greater. State legislatures got out of the business of subsidizing their institutions of higher learning which is what created the present situation. 


    Oh yes, I am definitely a Millennial or Gen-Z. Depends somewhat on where demographers are drawing the line, but I could be in either camp depending on definition. That said, I avoid calling myself a Millennial because it is a pejorative term.
    And trust me, I know college is not cheap. When I started college the estimated cost for 4 years from the financial aid office at my university (inclusive of all expenses) was something like $280k. But to your point I am not far removed from the present situation.
  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    4y

    Again, these are not the students taking out massive student loans. The ones left with huge student loan debts are also the ones with work-study scholarships making minimum wage that doesn't even cover their books. 

  • Member since 2022 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

    College/University has largely become a joke in the US. How many kids even follow their degree path (meaning that their career is in their major's field)? I bet the percentage is pretty low. 

    Add to that the partying and the political indoctrination and you have what amounts to a huge waste of time and money. Not for all, but for many I suspect....

     Totally agreed. The main issue in this country (US) is ghetto/hood mentality. As long we condone those behaviors, it would permanently handicap students/young generation's potential. Now it hooking up, body counts, total disregard of physical and mental development. When one is at college, usually you would do the same thing as your peers do. This is the reason why the young generation/students are unsuccessful in their post-college years. I am surprised that we don't teach self-respect, and civility anymore. These type of behaviors is what leads to full reverse of human development and wealth.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.