the trend that company move to Texas
Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
so based on these recent huge tech layoffs in CA, there's structural job changes that due to Fed Interest Rate, tech company can not longer operating in sustainable fashion in CA, so they have to move operation. Either to Texas, to India to Arizona or to Florida. So even company is moving out. This would obviously trigger more out-migration. One biggest S&P company is saying to their employee, either you move to Texas or we give you severance package !
I think the trend is pretty clear for next decade. There is more growth in TX,AZ,OH,WI,FL/India most likely. This is the trend that's very apparent. Texas is good in particular because cost of doing business is "moderate" with ample size of headcount available in the market and practically has no housing issue. What do you see in Texas ?
@Carlos Ptriawan Many areas in Texas have seen unreasonable property tax increases over the past few years. My sister owns 17 SFH that she bought in Denton TX more than a decade ago and refinanced to low interest rates during the pandemic. Most of them have less than $130,000 left on their mortgage but have appreciated to around $350,000. Their property taxes have gone up by approximately 60% each year for the past 3 years and 40% for several years before that. She barely breaks even now on these properties that were once her retirement plan and if she has any unexpected expenses forget it, those all come out of her pocket.
All of the tax dollars are going to widen roads to support more people moving to the area and to build more schools to accommodate the influx of kids. There are no benefits to the property owners that aren’t using these things.
She wanted a new investment in Texas and showed me a 6 unit apartment building that was $1.4M and after expenses LOST $3875/month. I told her to forget ever buying a property that lost money unless maybe it was waterfront and to let me find something. We bought a 5 unit property for $340K that cash flows$2000/month. What a difference!
@Carlos Ptriawan Many areas in Texas have seen unreasonable property tax increases over the past few years. My sister owns 17 SFH that she bought in Denton TX more than a decade ago and refinanced to low interest rates during the pandemic. Most of them have less than $130,000 left on their mortgage but have appreciated to around $350,000. Their property taxes have gone up by approximately 60% each year for the past 3 years and 40% for several years before that. She barely breaks even now on these properties that were once her retirement plan and if she has any unexpected expenses forget it, those all come out of her pocket.
All of the tax dollars are going to widen roads to support more people moving to the area and to build more schools to accommodate the influx of kids. There are no benefits to the property owners that aren’t using these things.
She wanted a new investment in Texas and showed me a 6 unit apartment building that was $1.4M and after expenses LOST $3875/month. I told her to forget ever buying a property that lost money unless maybe it was waterfront and to let me find something. We bought a 5 unit property for $340K that cash flows$2000/month. What a difference!
Lets not forget insurance. Some/many areas in TX/FL have astronomical insurance, multiples of their supposed "high taxes" --- they really should come to NJ those wimps :). Its like a huge hidden fixed expense that nobody talks about.
I see areas like TX, or parts of it being so big, basically becoming the next CA/NJ/NY where it becomes too expensive again. Meanwhile, there is significant turnover as many are still leaving TX.
Not sure about the other areas you mentioned. But, the surrounding states are supposedly seeing significant growth as a result.
Lets not forget insurance. Some/many areas in TX/FL have astronomical insurance, multiples of their supposed "high taxes" --- they really should come to NJ those wimps :). Its like a huge hidden fixed expense that nobody talks about.
I see areas like TX, or parts of it being so big, basically becoming the next CA/NJ/NY where it becomes too expensive again. Meanwhile, there is significant turnover as many are still leaving TX.
Not sure about the other areas you mentioned. But, the surrounding states are supposedly seeing significant growth as a result.
Yea it's matter of land size though. I am not hoping TX to become CA as land is vast with more conservative regulation/policy/environment.
I think you missed my point. It appears to be "already happening." Neighboring states are seeing influx of people and rising property values. Not sure how you figure, but TX isn't really that "conservative," or there are plenty "not-conservative" people that are leaving. It may be net positive people moving in, but there is a significant percentage moving out. Since they tend to report the "gross" amount moving in, without the outflow to determine the net, its deceiving.
I think you missed my point. It appears to be "already happening." Neighboring states are seeing influx of people and rising property values. Not sure how you figure, but TX isn't really that "conservative," or there are plenty "not-conservative" people that are leaving. It may be net positive people moving in, but there is a significant percentage moving out. Since they tend to report the "gross" amount moving in, without the outflow to determine the net, its deceiving.
I think you misplace about this topic. I am talking about the company and industry that move to Texas and not the residential per-se. The tax stuff/rising property value has no merit on the decision of that company to move to Texas. Basically what these Californian company telling is simple "please move to texas".
@Carlos Ptriawan Oh, I see. My apologies.
For company they only care how many headcount available in that state and the cost (salary) per individual.
Texas is taking the lion share of tech, Florida took the lion share of financials.
Cali to Texas, New York to Florida. Miami is going to become an Amazon hotspot, simply cause of Bezos' ties there. I am very interested to see the next move from Microsoft after Satya, I think we could see Texas also become a Microsoft headquarter too.
The secondary legs are going to be Northern Nevada, RTP, and to a lesser degree Nashville I believe. Notice the common trends of no income tax(sans North Carolina). Of these three areas, RTP has the chances to be organically grown. For Raleigh to emerge, one of these little small cap companies will need to explode. With that said, yes Google & Apple have already put really large quantities of investments there so they will really be the focus of the growth.
Texas is taking the lion share of tech, Florida took the lion share of financials.
Cali to Texas, New York to Florida. Miami is going to become an Amazon hotspot, simply cause of Bezos' ties there. I am very interested to see the next move from Microsoft after Satya, I think we could see Texas also become a Microsoft headquarter too.
The secondary legs are going to be Northern Nevada, RTP, and to a lesser degree Nashville I believe. Notice the common trends of no income tax(sans North Carolina). Of these three areas, RTP has the chances to be organically grown. For Raleigh to emerge, one of these little small cap companies will need to explode. With that said, yes Google & Apple have already put really large quantities of investments there so they will really be the focus of the growth.
There will be more hiring in Texas for Google,Apple,Amazon for sure, especially on the middle ranking salary level as resources are abundant in city like Austin and Dallas.
RTP would be secondary market as well, that city has been growing since late 90s even. Seems hybrid working is more common these days and not straight 5 days at the office, it's apparent that they don't need people that doesn't want to come to office but live in bay area. Now the company is asking to move to Texas or find another job is the new trend coming up.
Amazon would have more people in Florida for sure as the big boss is moving there too.
In the next ten years, once this Californication to Austin/Florida is over, there could be shifting of population too, so people in TX move to LA or folks in FL move to AL.It would be slow pprocessrocess. If we see the history of Bay Area housing moving from affordable to be unaffordable, it only takes 7 years since 2013 until everything become everything is so unaffordable and that's all started actually from hiring spree at tech industries.
Texas is taking the lion share of tech, Florida took the lion share of financials.
Cali to Texas, New York to Florida. Miami is going to become an Amazon hotspot, simply cause of Bezos' ties there. I am very interested to see the next move from Microsoft after Satya, I think we could see Texas also become a Microsoft headquarter too.
The secondary legs are going to be Northern Nevada, RTP, and to a lesser degree Nashville I believe. Notice the common trends of no income tax(sans North Carolina). Of these three areas, RTP has the chances to be organically grown. For Raleigh to emerge, one of these little small cap companies will need to explode. With that said, yes Google & Apple have already put really large quantities of investments there so they will really be the focus of the growth.
There will be more hiring in Texas for Google,Apple,Amazon for sure, especially on the middle ranking salary level as resources are abundant in city like Austin and Dallas.
RTP would be secondary market as well, that city has been growing since late 90s even. Seems hybrid working is more common these days and not straight 5 days at the office, it's apparent that they don't need people that doesn't want to come to office but live in bay area. Now the company is asking to move to Texas or find another job is the new trend coming up.
Amazon would have more people in Florida for sure as the big boss is moving there too.
In the next ten years, once this Californication to Austin/Florida is over, there could be shifting of population too, so people in TX move to LA or folks in FL move to AL.It would be slow pprocessrocess. If we see the history of Bay Area housing moving from affordable to be unaffordable, it only takes 7 years since 2013 until everything become everything is so unaffordable and that's all started actually from hiring spree at tech industries.
I think San Antonio may get some love before Dallas on tech. I do not know, I have bet on both so hopefully i win with proxy. Durham had Google come in and put in that cloud complex, Apple is putting $1bil in RTP, so yes secondary market. I think the rate of increase would equal to that, not this massive run up that bay and silicon valley get. But an above average, among top 10-15% of markets in america, annually once debt life cycle crisis is averted.
California will become now secondary market for successful out of state people. I see this all the time now--including myself. All my new friends in california are successful old(er) people that have this as second house. Escape winter cold or summer heat, or both. People will live here without enduring the politics(as a second home basis) and pay up for the quality of house. I don't think cali resi RE really ever will suffer, but jobs and cre will continue to suffer. Cali is just too beautiful.
Texas is taking the lion share of tech, Florida took the lion share of financials.
Cali to Texas, New York to Florida. Miami is going to become an Amazon hotspot, simply cause of Bezos' ties there. I am very interested to see the next move from Microsoft after Satya, I think we could see Texas also become a Microsoft headquarter too.
The secondary legs are going to be Northern Nevada, RTP, and to a lesser degree Nashville I believe. Notice the common trends of no income tax(sans North Carolina). Of these three areas, RTP has the chances to be organically grown. For Raleigh to emerge, one of these little small cap companies will need to explode. With that said, yes Google & Apple have already put really large quantities of investments there so they will really be the focus of the growth.
There will be more hiring in Texas for Google,Apple,Amazon for sure, especially on the middle ranking salary level as resources are abundant in city like Austin and Dallas.
RTP would be secondary market as well, that city has been growing since late 90s even. Seems hybrid working is more common these days and not straight 5 days at the office, it's apparent that they don't need people that doesn't want to come to office but live in bay area. Now the company is asking to move to Texas or find another job is the new trend coming up.
Amazon would have more people in Florida for sure as the big boss is moving there too.
In the next ten years, once this Californication to Austin/Florida is over, there could be shifting of population too, so people in TX move to LA or folks in FL move to AL.It would be slow pprocessrocess. If we see the history of Bay Area housing moving from affordable to be unaffordable, it only takes 7 years since 2013 until everything become everything is so unaffordable and that's all started actually from hiring spree at tech industries.
I think San Antonio may get some love before Dallas on tech. I do not know, I have bet on both so hopefully i win with proxy. Durham had Google come in and put in that cloud complex, Apple is putting $1bil in RTP, so yes secondary market. I think the rate of increase would equal to that, not this massive run up that bay and silicon valley get. But an above average, among top 10-15% of markets in america, annually once debt life cycle crisis is averted.
California will become now secondary market for successful out of state people. I see this all the time now--including myself. All my new friends in california are successful old(er) people that have this as second house. Escape winter cold or summer heat, or both. People will live here without enduring the politics(as a second home basis) and pay up for the quality of house. I don't think cali resi RE really ever will suffer, but jobs and cre will continue to suffer. Cali is just too beautiful.
For tech company CEO and CFO, they only care about cost of business and number of human resources availability only, and that's why they select to remain in Bay Area before. But once they see Apple and Google could be successful in TX then lot more industries are following the trend. Why the job move to TX is important because the trend in industry before was offshoring to India or China,but both administration force company to invest inside the country, hence TX is viable choice, the other consideration are remain elusive. Bay Area housing would be still there and will not collapse as demand is huge with 72 hours of DOM in average market but appreciation wise it could be pretty well flat or slow growth from now on.
You guys are missing a solid point....Arizona moved into the top spot of places where people are moving. This article is from a couple weeks ago, so very recent...
"Californians looking to escape the high cost of living are apparently moving in droves to Arizona more than anywhere else in the U.S., new data shows."
https://www.foxla.com/news/california-residents-moving-reloc...
I tried that, but OP shut me down saying his thread is about the companies, not the people.
I tried that, but OP shut me down saying his thread is about the companies, not the people.
yes this is not about people moving to texas voluntarily, but about company that's forcing employee to move to texas involuntarily . And this is not about promoting texas,arizona or South Dakota LOL.
I tried that, but OP shut me down saying his thread is about the companies, not the people.
I think there has got to be some overlap here.......
I tried that, but OP shut me down saying his thread is about the companies, not the people.
I think there has got to be some overlap here.......
we see similar thread sometimes, that company and business is also moving to Reno Nevada, Phoenix Arizona for some part but this moving to Texas is quite large.
I tried that, but OP shut me down saying his thread is about the companies, not the people.
I think there has got to be some overlap here.......
Cause and effect, economics, policy, human nature. REI is one thread in the tapestry that is America.
Yes Arizona is quickly emerging on the hardware side of Moore's law.
Texas a little more on the software side.
Raleigh Durham, Murfreesboro and multitude of other emerging markets.
I'm very confident that outmigration from CA will continue for certain segments of the population.
There will be more income stratification here in the Golden State.
@Alecia Loveless while not the theme of this forum I believe your sister might be approaching her Texas SF portfolio incorrectly. What many SF portfolio investors fail to realize is the appreciation in changing markets is the capital event that makes owning SF homes a worthwhile investment, not necessarily the cash flow the homes might spit off each month. Most SF portfolio investors focus on cash flow and purchase in stagnant or low barrier of entry markets that see minimal growth. The most successful SF investors are those who identify markets that have growth potential and transition into owner occupied markets. Based on what you described it seems that transition has occurred. The time is now ripe for your sister to sell her homes to home owners who will be attracted by the better schools and infrastructure you pointed out in your post. Your sister will not only enjoy some great realization events, but will be able to take advantage of favorable tax benefits or even 1031 the gains into better cash flow opportunities. The fact pattern you provided is actually one of the best ways to scale your portfolio, but many spend all of their time focused on managing their SF portfolios and fail to take advantage of the opportunity to transition or scale into better performing assets once the appreciation event has occurred.
@Alecia Loveless while not the theme of this forum I believe your sister might be approaching her Texas SF portfolio incorrectly. What many SF portfolio investors fail to realize is the appreciation in changing markets is the capital event that makes owning SF homes a worthwhile investment, not necessarily the cash flow the homes might spit off each month. Most SF portfolio investors focus on cash flow and purchase in stagnant or low barrier of entry markets that see minimal growth. The most successful SF investors are those who identify markets that have growth potential and transition into owner occupied markets. Based on what you described it seems that transition has occurred. The time is now ripe for your sister to sell her homes to home owners who will be attracted by the better schools and infrastructure you pointed out in your post. Your sister will not only enjoy some great realization events, but will be able to take advantage of favorable tax benefits or even 1031 the gains into better cash flow opportunities. The fact pattern you provided is actually one of the best ways to scale your portfolio, but many spend all of their time focused on managing their SF portfolios and fail to take advantage of the opportunity to transition or scale into better performing assets once the appreciation event has occurred.
@Carlos Ptriawan Myself - was in India in 2022 for work. 1.at Google was in Portugal now back in Bay Area. (Google is doing lay offs in CA with no relocation offers). 2. Eastdil moved him to Dallas ("take the move from SF or layoff), 3. at Blizzard is in Arizona. We work in tech of sorts. The push to leave Newsomland is big. All four of my family members see this trend.
I'm back in Southern Cal but shopping for houses in no tax states.
Florida hmm... hurricanes, humid, big bugs, gators, blue hairs driving wrong side of road (soon to be one)
Texas- would not want to be in a border town, property taxes 1.6%, hot, humid on gulf... I lived in Dallas before it was okay
Arizona- mountain areas desirable, water shortages, hot
Tennessee- mountain areas desirable, not a lot of cultural things for me, could have a garden, tornados? shopping a little bit
Nevada- near Lake Tahoe yes shopping/ near Vegas nope.
Wyoming- I'm shopping a state you didn't mention- low population can work remote
I love it!! For similar reasons I like the northeast or the northwest. Also, some areas of TX has some huge property insurance costs, even greater than property taxes as compared to NJ!
In my opinion, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They forget about the cost of and for the employees (assuming they aren't remote). Just like in the Silicon Valley area, after a while it won't pencil out anymore...
But, looks like you are running out of no tax states. I just read UT seriously looking at getting rid of their income tax since everybody else is doing it.
I love it!! For similar reasons I like the northeast or the northwest. Also, some areas of TX has some huge property insurance costs, even greater than property taxes as compared to NJ!
In my opinion, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They forget about the cost of and for the employees (assuming they aren't remote). Just like in the Silicon Valley area, after a while it won't pencil out anymore...
But, looks like you are running out of no tax states. I just read UT seriously looking at getting rid of their income tax since everybody else is doing it.
I'm in the capital equipment side of tech so to speak. Industrial Electrical Contractor that grew up in San Jose. In 2000 I watched the exodus of manufacturing. This current market compression is rather Deja Vue and I'm watching the last of my friends and business associates leave. Ironically its these people that are my networking base for flips, so it's a bit of a double whammy. All that being said I've been through some pretty challenging boom bust cycles and am hopefull of the future. Its great interacting with all of you folks, its like making new friends. You guys have all helped me more than you'll ever know!
Texas is good and many of the big things haven't even happened yet. Wells Fargo basically moving HDQ to Irving...construction started. Citi has huge operation here. Goldman Sachs HDQ 1-2 or 3, however you want to call it, just started, although they have many employees here already. Bank of America just started new tower. Lots of small and medium sized companies you never heard of also moving 100s of 100-300 person companies. Mexico is probably the #1 exporter now to USA, either beating or soon to beat China....guessing a lot of that comes thru/to Texas. 3 of 5 biggest US airlines based here. Just stat after stat after stat. From what I hear some people are saying Texas will become EV factory hdq of the world, but also understand those don't always employ a lot of people. Tesla highly automated. Two HDQ for Space Exploration here, plus big NASA base. Almost never hear about medical research, but two GIANT research hospitals..UT Southwestern and MD Anderson in Houston. New chip factories started. I think we also have a very hardworking population vs some North and NE US. GM factory workers tell me it is a very different in Arlington vs transfers from other places when those plants shut down. They have to train them to work, work the complete shift, take less sick days, etc. COL has gone up, but probably less than other places. Energy seems to be making a comeback and some huge growth opportunities just now coming on line with NatGas. Very diversified economy.
@Carlos Ptriawan Myself - was in India in 2022 for work. 1.at Google was in Portugal now back in Bay Area. (Google is doing lay offs in CA with no relocation offers). 2. Eastdil moved him to Dallas ("take the move from SF or layoff), 3. at Blizzard is in Arizona. We work in tech of sorts. The push to leave Newsomland is big. All four of my family members see this trend.
I'm back in Southern Cal but shopping for houses in no tax states.
Florida hmm... hurricanes, humid, big bugs, gators, blue hairs driving wrong side of road (soon to be one)
Texas- would not want to be in a border town, property taxes 1.6%, hot, humid on gulf... I lived in Dallas before it was okay
Arizona- mountain areas desirable, water shortages, hot
Tennessee- mountain areas desirable, not a lot of cultural things for me, could have a garden, tornados? shopping a little bit
Nevada- near Lake Tahoe yes shopping/ near Vegas nope.
Wyoming- I'm shopping a state you didn't mention- low population can work remote
California, for as Newsom as it may be and as tax friendly as it may be, will always catch a bid. I wouldn't live there as a primary, but I am happy there with a second home. Nothing beats it's weather, and the real estate market is showing that tons of folks are still interested in living here as a secondary.
I love it!! For similar reasons I like the northeast or the northwest. Also, some areas of TX has some huge property insurance costs, even greater than property taxes as compared to NJ!
In my opinion, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They forget about the cost of and for the employees (assuming they aren't remote). Just like in the Silicon Valley area, after a while it won't pencil out anymore...
But, looks like you are running out of no tax states. I just read UT seriously looking at getting rid of their income tax since everybody else is doing it.
They'd rob a lot of Cali migration, but kill what innocence(and creepiness) Utah has. Utah isn't cheap though, so it's going to be on par with getting into a Nashville level or even Denver. I've looked at getting into Utah, I just can't find the right footing with no industry even hinting at going there.