the trend that company move to Texas
Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
the trend that company move to Texas
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Alecia LovelessPro Member
Member since 2019 路 3k+ posts 路 2k+ votes@Carlos Ptriawan Many areas in Texas have seen unreasonable property tax increases over the past few years. My sister owns 17 SFH that she bought in Denton TX more than a decade ago and refinanced to low interest rates during the pandemic. Most of them have less than $130,000 left on their mortgage but have appreciated to around $350,000. Their property taxes have gone up by approximately 60% each year for the past 3 years and 40% for several years before that. She barely breaks even now on these properties that were once her retirement plan and if she has any unexpected expenses forget it, those all come out of her pocket.
All of the tax dollars are going to widen roads to support more people moving to the area and to build more schools to accommodate the influx of kids. There are no benefits to the property owners that aren鈥檛 using these things.
She wanted a new investment in Texas and showed me a 6 unit apartment building that was $1.4M and after expenses LOST $3875/month. I told her to forget ever buying a property that lost money unless maybe it was waterfront and to let me find something. We bought a 5 unit property for $340K that cash flows$2000/month. What a difference!
117 Replies
- Investor 路 Thermopolis, WY 路 Member since 2012 路 4k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
@Caroline Gerardo, I would not move to Wyoming. It was 29 degrees below zero yesterday morning and was 22 degrees below zero this morning. It will be 10 days before we get above freezing for even a few hours. While this is not normal, it is not really unusual. We are also a hard red state. We have had a pretty hard influx of people moving in the last 3 years since Covid. Land prices have increased massively, but will probably seem cheap to you. You can still buy a massive, nice log cabin in the mountains for a million dollars with 20 to 40 acres to play on. You can get a pretty decent house for $200K in many areas.
I am a conservative Republican, and some folks here are so conservative I blush when I hear them. Our politics will probably change in time as more people move in. One percent of California here would cause us to be outnumbered. We have the highest percentage of guns per capita of any state. Very few homes have less than 5 or 6 guns and a few thousand rounds of ammunition. We rely heavily on oil, coal, gas, tourists and ranching.
We have 2 seasons, winter and road construction.
That being said it is a beautiful state with lots of wide open spaces. I have hunted afoot and horseback for days and only seen one or two other hunters. The sky at night in the mountains are so clear you see thousands of stars. You can still hear coyotes and even wolves howl at night. The average distance between towns is usually 30 minutes to an hour. Many towns have only one stoplight.
Anyway, that's a short version of WY.
- 2yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor 路 Member since 2022 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votesEnd of the day the bold will deter people. Just like these folks in Montana and Idaho. It's pretty, for sure, but live there year round and it'll rough you up some. Record breaking snow in Boise, Billings & Great Falls feeling the cold. It's not for the faint of heart, I could never do it.
Quote from @Jerry W.:
@Caroline Gerardo, I would not move to Wyoming. It was 29 degrees below zero yesterday morning and was 22 degrees below zero this morning. It will be 10 days before we get above freezing for even a few hours. While this is not normal, it is not really unusual. We are also a hard red state. We have had a pretty hard influx of people moving in the last 3 years since Covid. Land prices have increased massively, but will probably seem cheap to you. You can still buy a massive, nice log cabin in the mountains for a million dollars with 20 to 40 acres to play on. You can get a pretty decent house for $200K in many areas.
I am a conservative Republican, and some folks here are so conservative I blush when I hear them. Our politics will probably change in time as more people move in. One percent of California here would cause us to be outnumbered. We have the highest percentage of guns per capita of any state. Very few homes have less than 5 or 6 guns and a few thousand rounds of ammunition. We rely heavily on oil, coal, gas, tourists and ranching.
We have 2 seasons, winter and road construction.
That being said it is a beautiful state with lots of wide open spaces. I have hunted afoot and horseback for days and only seen one or two other hunters. The sky at night in the mountains are so clear you see thousands of stars. You can still hear coyotes and even wolves howl at night. The average distance between towns is usually 30 minutes to an hour. Many towns have only one stoplight.
Anyway, that's a short version of WY.
Weather will always dictate where people want to go & jobs, state policies will always dictate where they end up. If you can find both, you'll run not walk there. - Lender 路 Washington DC 路 Member since 2015 路 2k+ posts 路 2k+ votes2y
@Jerry W. I owned a cattle ranch outside of Hoback Junction from 1998-2008 (the crash, I had to sell) I can operate a backhoe, a snowplow, a crane, excellent with a rifle at 1000 yards and split firewood. Would need to build a satellite tower for my Starlink to work during good weather (Elon doesn't work in snow storms/high cloudy winds which is winter in WY). Looking for 20 Acres 1000 foot cabin and a barn. I stay away from politics it bores me.
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Bruce Lynn:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Texas is good and many of the big things haven't even happened yet. Wells Fargo basically moving HDQ to Irving...construction started. Citi has huge operation here. Goldman Sachs HDQ 1-2 or 3, however you want to call it, just started, although they have many employees here already. Bank of America just started new tower. Lots of small and medium sized companies you never heard of also moving 100s of 100-300 person companies. Mexico is probably the #1 exporter now to USA, either beating or soon to beat China....guessing a lot of that comes thru/to Texas. 3 of 5 biggest US airlines based here. Just stat after stat after stat. From what I hear some people are saying Texas will become EV factory hdq of the world, but also understand those don't always employ a lot of people. Tesla highly automated. Two HDQ for Space Exploration here, plus big NASA base. Almost never hear about medical research, but two GIANT research hospitals..UT Southwestern and MD Anderson in Houston. New chip factories started. I think we also have a very hardworking population vs some North and NE US. GM factory workers tell me it is a very different in Arlington vs transfers from other places when those plants shut down. They have to train them to work, work the complete shift, take less sick days, etc. COL has gone up, but probably less than other places. Energy seems to be making a comeback and some huge growth opportunities just now coming on line with NatGas. Very diversified economy.
This is the kind of research I want to understand. Do you see the research/tech/biotech company to be more diverse in Dallas or Austin ?
how many of your buyer agent are coming from tech migration per-se ?
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Alan F.:
Quote from @David M.:
I love it!! For similar reasons I like the northeast or the northwest. Also, some areas of TX has some huge property insurance costs, even greater than property taxes as compared to NJ!
In my opinion, these companies are shooting themselves in the foot. They forget about the cost of and for the employees (assuming they aren't remote). Just like in the Silicon Valley area, after a while it won't pencil out anymore...
But, looks like you are running out of no tax states. I just read UT seriously looking at getting rid of their income tax since everybody else is doing it.
I'm in the capital equipment side of tech so to speak. Industrial Electrical Contractor that grew up in San Jose. In 2000 I watched the exodus of manufacturing. This current market compression is rather Deja Vue and I'm watching the last of my friends and business associates leave. Ironically its these people that are my networking base for flips, so it's a bit of a double whammy. All that being said I've been through some pretty challenging boom bust cycles and am hopefull of the future. Its great interacting with all of you folks, its like making new friends. You guys have all helped me more than you'll ever know!
Silicon Valley needs to keep producing the hype to sustain its value and to stay relevant in Wall Street, if it's social media in 2010, cloud in 2015, now it's AI. New company is generated, first, a 300-400 employee company that generates 900 million is revenue, and so on and so on.... the number of employee itself would matter here because it's the one that generates FCF. 90% of companies in S&P that produces highest FCF was in tech hence they have highest valuation regardless of interest rate. With just 400 employee and housing supply is less than 9 house per zip code, the layoff would not reduce the number of demands. But like you said, anything for "manufacturing"/"technician"/or daily type of jobs, would be sent to Texas or even Ohio. Moving forward most company that stays in bay area would be "core engineering research" only, even then, those kind of jobs, still would be sent to Austin or India. It's slow progression of moving from bay area to Texas, the more phd they have in Austin or dallas, the faster the migration process would be.
- Real Estate Broker 路 Coppell, TX 路 Member since 2011 路 5k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Jerry W.:
Don't CA my WY. One of the best answers I've seen on BP. People I'm sure love the pictures of Jackson Hole in the summer and Old Faithful, but once they feel -29F are ready to see another part of the country. Today in Dallas is 14F maybe for 2-3-4 days, and already I'm thinking where I will move and if I am willing to endure another winter (like we even really have winter.)
@David M I thought it was CA that had the crazy high insurance rates with so many companies pulling out after fire, floods, mudslides, and earthquakes. Friend of a friend thought Lake Tahoe was the place to invest, but I think they are down to one insurance company that will cover his properties and crazy expensive.
@V.G Jason I always think it is funny when CA people talk about property taxes in Texas. Not sure I've ever done a true comparison (I moved here from Bay area, but just don't remember all the details, it was so long ago.) but when I ask people moving here they say they pay about 1% property taxes in CA, but then I look at the prices and we may pay 2-3% here in TX, but the values here are about 1/3 for the same house. So the taxes are for most people about the same I think. Maybe the exception in CA is for the people who buy and stay forever with that rule that fixes the basis of the taxes. Seems like there is good/evil with that. We also have cap on homestead properties, but I don't think it is even close to CA cap on increases.
- Real Estate Broker 路 Coppell, TX 路 Member since 2011 路 5k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
I'm not as keyed in on the research/biotech stuff...don't hear as much about that. I am looking for life sciences investment property now near downtown Dallas as I think the demand is there and will be here long term. I've lived in Austin, almost never go to Houston...maybe 1x a year. I think the medical research industry is mostly in Dallas and Houston, not Austin. Not sure that is still true, but at one time they used to say UT Southwestern had more Noble Laurates than any other university and also name all the other prestigious science awards too. There are dozens probably as good or better than Noble, but not as well known and I'm not clued in on this industry. I could be stating this wrong too, or not the way they word it, as I think Harvard has a slew of them too. Probably Mayo and Cleveland clinics get the press and maybe Boston and NE area Harvard/MIT also, but seems a lot of underrated work being done in Dallas and Houston. I feel some of this is moving for a lot of reasons. When i looked at Life Sciences rental rates in Dallas vs Boston it was like 1/2 price here. Salaries and Cost of Living and Commute times also have to be way less in Dallas than in Boston. I remember not too long ago the CEO of GS saying they were mistaken to think all financial talent was in NYC. Probably when they are done building, they'll have more talent in Dallas vs NYC or London.
Also as far as moves go, while there are a lot of people moving, I also think it is a ploy to trim staff sometimes. I remember when Toyota Finance and Toyota NA HDQ moved from Torrance, they left a lot of people behind. They were offered moves, but declined. I get it they were with the company 20-30 years, but now have kids and grandkids and roots in the area, and did not want to leave. Or maybe had a spouse with decent job, that could not transfer so took a buyout instead. Some I talked to didn't like the work ethic here. I'm sure some probably didn't like the politics. Bay area probably different as I don't think a lot of the talent is from Bay Area and less roots, plus can be crazy expensive to live in Palo Alto or Atherton and some of the surrounding areas. When the company decides to move, staff comes with I'm thinking. I'd be interested to know with some of the companies like Oracle...how many actually made the move to Houston.
- Investor 路 Hillsboro, OR 路 Member since 2016 路 304 posts 路 153 votes2y
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
@Carlos Ptriawan Myself - was in India in 2022 for work. 1.at Google was in Portugal now back in Bay Area. (Google is doing lay offs in CA with no relocation offers). 2. Eastdil moved him to Dallas ("take the move from SF or layoff), 3. at Blizzard is in Arizona. We work in tech of sorts. The push to leave Newsomland is big. All four of my family members see this trend.
I'm back in Southern Cal but shopping for houses in no tax states.
Florida hmm... hurricanes, humid, big bugs, gators, blue hairs driving wrong side of road (soon to be one)
Texas- would not want to be in a border town, property taxes 1.6%, hot, humid on gulf... I lived in Dallas before it was okay
Arizona- mountain areas desirable, water shortages, hot
Tennessee- mountain areas desirable, not a lot of cultural things for me, could have a garden, tornados? shopping a little bit
Nevada- near Lake Tahoe yes shopping/ near Vegas nope.
Wyoming- I'm shopping a state you didn't mention- low population can work remote
Caroline: FYI... Bozeman, MT was -30 this weekend plus a wind chill that would give you frost bite on oncovered skin in 5 minutes. Wyoming was colder. Maybe, not be in Wyoming in the winter ???
- 2yJustin BrickmanBusiness MemberRealtor 路 San Antonio, TX 路 Member since 2021 路 502 posts 路 274 votes
San Antonio is the place to invest!! My clients and many other investors have been getting deals significantly under appraised value, so they walk in with equity on day 1. Most times with high potential of instant cash flow and appreciation.
Justin Brickman Realty4.9144 Reviews - Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @Bruce Lynn:
I'm not as keyed in on the research/biotech stuff...don't hear as much about that. I am looking for life sciences investment property now near downtown Dallas as I think the demand is there and will be here long term. I've lived in Austin, almost never go to Houston...maybe 1x a year. I think the medical research industry is mostly in Dallas and Houston, not Austin. Not sure that is still true, but at one time they used to say UT Southwestern had more Noble Laurates than any other university and also name all the other prestigious science awards too. There are dozens probably as good or better than Noble, but not as well known and I'm not clued in on this industry. I could be stating this wrong too, or not the way they word it, as I think Harvard has a slew of them too. Probably Mayo and Cleveland clinics get the press and maybe Boston and NE area Harvard/MIT also, but seems a lot of underrated work being done in Dallas and Houston. I feel some of this is moving for a lot of reasons. When i looked at Life Sciences rental rates in Dallas vs Boston it was like 1/2 price here. Salaries and Cost of Living and Commute times also have to be way less in Dallas than in Boston. I remember not too long ago the CEO of GS saying they were mistaken to think all financial talent was in NYC. Probably when they are done building, they'll have more talent in Dallas vs NYC or London.
Also as far as moves go, while there are a lot of people moving, I also think it is a ploy to trim staff sometimes. I remember when Toyota Finance and Toyota NA HDQ moved from Torrance, they left a lot of people behind. They were offered moves, but declined. I get it they were with the company 20-30 years, but now have kids and grandkids and roots in the area, and did not want to leave. Or maybe had a spouse with decent job, that could not transfer so took a buyout instead. Some I talked to didn't like the work ethic here. I'm sure some probably didn't like the politics. Bay area probably different as I don't think a lot of the talent is from Bay Area and less roots, plus can be crazy expensive to live in Palo Alto or Atherton and some of the surrounding areas. When the company decides to move, staff comes with I'm thinking. I'd be interested to know with some of the companies like Oracle...how many actually made the move to Houston.
LOL nobody lives in Atherton, that area is only for VC. Also Palo Alto usually only affordable for some of the lucky engineer that purchased during the 90k (500k in 1999 and if they sell now is about 2.5M). Good thing about bay area is jobs are still abundant, there're lot of small cities in between where condo range from 400k to 1 mil ; and house itself if we go as far as north as oakland you can get for some 300k. But to try to find job is easy bitsy in bay area. If economy is normal we can go from one company to the next in slew of hours sometimes. But what's the difference at most other than the job quality is the housing quality, 400k home in oakland would be very different than 400k home in birmingham or in Dallas.
This time around, in 2023, we see almost similarities compare to 2001 dotcom crash but itseems 2023 would be more impactful because (a) now we have more distributed human resources that can do engineering (b) most companies are having established setup in Texas and also in India, so it's easy to switch group location (c) most of these remote office outside bay area also already able handling core product that generates company revenue , for exampl I would not be surprise if by 2028, Apple would move their core IOS team to Austin, it's high probability now and something that's unthinkabl 5 years ago (d) Having said that, it's the quality of the job that's being moved in-shore or out-shore that's mind boggling (e) The quality of people that got laid off in 2023 is super high quality people, lot of people that has wrote US patent has been laid off, usually these kind of groups are very untouchable but not at this time (f) the impact of automation and AI is also mind boggling, the job cuts because of AI has been started, in the tech industry itself, although everyone is still confuse of what would happen in the future and everyone is skeptical but carrying their hype around (i) since CFO is more powerful than CTO, so we would see the trend of cost cuttting more and more, big company can just layoff 20-30% non-stop or they would start consolidating in the industry which would trigger another 50% cut of layoffs in managerial position or administration position.
We are already in tech recession in CA. So we would see how Texas or Ohio or Arizona tap this opportunity. - Realtor 路 Dallas - Fort Worth Metroplex, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 925 votes2y
@Alecia Loveless part of the challenge here is not enough people protested their taxes so then the county wins every time.
- Realtor 路 Dallas - Fort Worth Metroplex, TX 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 925 votes2y
@Carlos Ptriawan I can only speak for Texas; it鈥檚 a business friendly state and a landlord friendly state ( for the most part, some cities have increased tenant friendly guidelines )
It was the best decision for me and my family when we moved from Cali to Texas.
- Morris County, NJ 路 Member since 2020 路 5k+ posts 路 2k+ votes2y
I think we are saying the same thing. CA is an expensive state. Some to many of their properties have become uninsurable.
I believe I was making the point that TX is claimed to be cheap, but they have their hidden costs. Meanwhile, with all this net migration, their costs are going up, too. So, people can run to TX, but I suppose its only the high paying jobs to cover those expenses, afford the properties, and to have a lower effective tax rate. States with no income tax are HIGHLY regressive in their overall tax policies. So, the lower incomes are the ones that are supporting the public establishments. I still don't understand why people support taxing the "poor."
As for property taxes being "high" or "low," in general the characterizations of them I think is made too superficially. Looking at their percentages as you pointed out is not very useful. Some states apparently only use a percentage of the fmv, but use ad valorem so their percentage looks high.
Meanwhile, lets face it properties are purchased on monthly payment. High fixed payment areas I THINK see less value swings (on rate changes anyway) than low fixed payment areas. So, if anything, the "high cost" areas are helping to prop up valuations in some ways LOL
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:
Arizona- mountain areas desirable, water shortages, hot
I have a place in Prescott for you! 馃槃
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votes
Quote from @David M.:
States with no income tax are HIGHLY regressive in their overall tax policies. So, the lower incomes are the ones that are supporting the public establishments. I still don't understand why people support taxing the "poor."
But that's just one way of looking at it right? They have no Income Tax, but the Property Tax is higher. Poor people don't own houses at the same rate as wealthier people. So Public Services are paid for by those with properties.....
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @David M.:
I think we are saying the same thing. CA is an expensive state. Some to many of their properties have become uninsurable.
I believe I was making the point that TX is claimed to be cheap, but they have their hidden costs. Meanwhile, with all this net migration, their costs are going up, too. So, people can run to TX, but I suppose its only the high paying jobs to cover those expenses, afford the properties, and to have a lower effective tax rate. States with no income tax are HIGHLY regressive in their overall tax policies. So, the lower incomes are the ones that are supporting the public establishments. I still don't understand why people support taxing the "poor."
As for property taxes being "high" or "low," in general the characterizations of them I think is made too superficially. Looking at their percentages as you pointed out is not very useful. Some states apparently only use a percentage of the fmv, but use ad valorem so their percentage looks high.
Meanwhile, lets face it properties are purchased on monthly payment. High fixed payment areas I THINK see less value swings (on rate changes anyway) than low fixed payment areas. So, if anything, the "high cost" areas are helping to prop up valuations in some ways LOL
CA in particular bay area is actually not expensive if we compare to income, latest median housing in the area are in the below chart, but in beneath 80% of people is buying those >1M home when price is still 300k-800k not too long ago so actual condition is... CA actually not expensive for established family/person. Any new tech guy making 200k could buy those 1mil house. However the larger issue in this thread is not when people can't buy house in CA but more due to "company cant operate in bay area" due to foreseen future. There're difference between the two. When company is forced to move, either it's Toyota or Apple, they would bring a new set of operation and complexities to another market. Currently TX is the most prepared city to gain this (rather than the job is shifting wholly to India). For folks with CA/Asia background, everything outside CA is cheap. lol.
- Morris County, NJ 路 Member since 2020 路 5k+ posts 路 2k+ votes2y
Yeah, its just what I see, from NJ...
The sales tax is much higher for one. That makes it much more regressive.
As for the property tax, I absolutely admit it I don't know. If you notice I don't address it directly. I'm from NY/NJ area and invest locally. So, "all of you yuse" just don't make sense. In poking around, in the greater Houston area there is a 8000 sq ft house with yards and pool has a property tax of I think $5.5k... My 2000 sqft house with some grass, no pool in a purposely cheaper municipality is $15k. You can't even get a crappy starter home in the "rural areas" out here for less than $7k of taxes LOL
Then, there is the CONCEPT that renters do pay property taxes, just indirectly through their rent.
(shrug) :)
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @David M.:
Yeah, its just what I see, from NJ...
The sales tax is much higher for one. That makes it much more regressive.
As for the property tax, I absolutely admit it I don't know. If you notice I don't address it directly. I'm from NY/NJ area and invest locally. So, "all of you yuse" just don't make sense. In poking around, in the greater Houston area there is a 8000 sq ft house with yards and pool has a property tax of I think $5.5k... My 2000 sqft house with some grass, no pool in a purposely cheaper municipality is $15k. You can't even get a crappy starter home in the "rural areas" out here for less than $7k of taxes LOL
Then, there is the CONCEPT that renters do pay property taxes, just indirectly through their rent.
(shrug) :)
You live in area near Parsippany ? During dotcom bust I also tried to move out of CA, to your area in NJ near 287/Route 22. But the environment and tech scene there was depressing for someone from the bay LOL it was like 1/8 of the bay. But that time, home price is still 400k-ish in the bay, while our wage relatively remains the same. Good thing about NJ is there're abundant of Indian grocery store just like in the bay, that would attract tech talent for sure. In bay the grocery store was like every 0.4 miles, much more easier to find Biryani joint than burger joint. NJ can become tech center due to Rutgers and Princeton, but it never developed, I see Austin and RTP is more developing in tech scene, although there're not much university in RTP. Austin has A&M.
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @V.G Jason:
Texas is taking the lion share of tech, Florida took the lion share of financials.
Cali to Texas, New York to Florida. Miami is going to become an Amazon hotspot, simply cause of Bezos' ties there. I am very interested to see the next move from Microsoft after Satya, I think we could see Texas also become a Microsoft headquarter too.
The secondary legs are going to be Northern Nevada, RTP, and to a lesser degree Nashville I believe. Notice the common trends of no income tax(sans North Carolina). Of these three areas, RTP has the chances to be organically grown. For Raleigh to emerge, one of these little small cap companies will need to explode. With that said, yes Google & Apple have already put really large quantities of investments there so they will really be the focus of the growth.
There will be more hiring in Texas for Google,Apple,Amazon for sure, especially on the middle ranking salary level as resources are abundant in city like Austin and Dallas.
RTP would be secondary market as well, that city has been growing since late 90s even. Seems hybrid working is more common these days and not straight 5 days at the office, it's apparent that they don't need people that doesn't want to come to office but live in bay area. Now the company is asking to move to Texas or find another job is the new trend coming up.
Amazon would have more people in Florida for sure as the big boss is moving there too.
In the next ten years, once this Californication to Austin/Florida is over, there could be shifting of population too, so people in TX move to LA or folks in FL move to AL.It would be slow pprocessrocess. If we see the history of Bay Area housing moving from affordable to be unaffordable, it only takes 7 years since 2013 until everything become everything is so unaffordable and that's all started actually from hiring spree at tech industries.
I think San Antonio may get some love before Dallas on tech. I do not know, I have bet on both so hopefully i win with proxy. Durham had Google come in and put in that cloud complex, Apple is putting $1bil in RTP, so yes secondary market. I think the rate of increase would equal to that, not this massive run up that bay and silicon valley get. But an above average, among top 10-15% of markets in america, annually once debt life cycle crisis is averted.
California will become now secondary market for successful out of state people. I see this all the time now--including myself. All my new friends in california are successful old(er) people that have this as second house. Escape winter cold or summer heat, or both. People will live here without enduring the politics(as a second home basis) and pay up for the quality of house. I don't think cali resi RE really ever will suffer, but jobs and cre will continue to suffer. Cali is just too beautiful.
I am part of the 90 tech older generation (first 14.4 kbps motorolla modem, Netscape and ancient stuff like that) LOL I see these days, the Bay Area GenZ that graduated from CS/EE major, they are all decided to move out of CA even when their parent lives in CA, they move alot to place like Austin,RTP/Durham and as far away as Milwaukee. It seems the trend for next two decades are pretty settled as GenZ and company can't no longer live in CA especially if Fed rate is sticky at 4% lol
- 2yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant 路 San Diego / Phoenix 路 Member since 2021 路 12k+ posts 路 15k+ votesMy thoughts are (sorry Carlos for the hijack)
Quote from @David M.:
Yeah, its just what I see, from NJ...
The sales tax is much higher for one. That makes it much more regressive.
As for the property tax, I absolutely admit it I don't know. If you notice I don't address it directly. I'm from NY/NJ area and invest locally. So, "all of you yuse" just don't make sense. In poking around, in the greater Houston area there is a 8000 sq ft house with yards and pool has a property tax of I think $5.5k... My 2000 sqft house with some grass, no pool in a purposely cheaper municipality is $15k. You can't even get a crappy starter home in the "rural areas" out here for less than $7k of taxes LOL
Then, there is the CONCEPT that renters do pay property taxes, just indirectly through their rent.
(shrug) :)
1) that renters make a choice, in most cases, to stay renters. Work 2 jobs, move to an area where houses are cheaper, whatever...
2) yes, renters help a LL pay their property tax and other expenses. But the renting class also uses public services to a great degree and (some would say) should pay more in taxes....?
Bottom line is - it takes money to fund a community and the Govt will get it one way or another. I guess we just need to choose which taxes we prefer to pay. And then there's the COL but I digress..... - Investor 路 Fresno, CA 路 Member since 2016 路 222 posts 路 237 votes2y
There has definitely been a migration to TX over the last 5 years, especially from CA. Texas home prices are expensive, but not nearly to CA levels. Combine this with a lack of state income tax, and a generally favorable business climate and it's no surprise companies are moving there. Unfortunately, as many others have noted, property taxes in TX are very high and are not capped as they are in CA where Prop 13 caps increases in assessed value to 2%/year.
So there is obviously more nuance than just home values and interest rates when buying property. It seems TX is a great place to own a business, but perhaps a tougher place to own a real estate investment portfolio.
- Flipper/Rehabber 路 CA 路 Member since 2023 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes2y
Quote from @Timothy Howdeshell:
There has definitely been a migration to TX over the last 5 years, especially from CA. Texas home prices are expensive, but not nearly to CA levels. Combine this with a lack of state income tax, and a generally favorable business climate and it's no surprise companies are moving there. Unfortunately, as many others have noted, property taxes in TX are very high and are not capped as they are in CA where Prop 13 caps increases in assessed value to 2%/year.
So there is obviously more nuance than just home values and interest rates when buying property. It seems TX is a great place to own a business, but perhaps a tougher place to own a real estate investment portfolio.
Keep in mind prop 19 has "eroded" prop 13 to some extent, Sacramento is working hard to rescend prop 13 on commercial props.
- 2yV.G JasonPro MemberInvestor 路 Member since 2022 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
Quote from @David M.:
Yeah, its just what I see, from NJ...
The sales tax is much higher for one. That makes it much more regressive.
As for the property tax, I absolutely admit it I don't know. If you notice I don't address it directly. I'm from NY/NJ area and invest locally. So, "all of you yuse" just don't make sense. In poking around, in the greater Houston area there is a 8000 sq ft house with yards and pool has a property tax of I think $5.5k... My 2000 sqft house with some grass, no pool in a purposely cheaper municipality is $15k. You can't even get a crappy starter home in the "rural areas" out here for less than $7k of taxes LOL
Then, there is the CONCEPT that renters do pay property taxes, just indirectly through their rent.
(shrug) :)
Define greater Houston area-- if its Harris County you're still paying 2% in prop tax(it's come down for 2023 with the new reform), but you're going to get killed in HOI. Now only a few, believe less than 3, insurers in the area.
- Member since 2019 路 7k+ posts 路 4k+ votes2y
I thought they would move to New Mexico ? no ?
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