Why do people Buy Property in California
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
Why do people Buy Property in California
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
1yWhere do you think people are growing richer with real estate.....Los Angeles or Cleveland? Owning just a few typical properties in California turns you into a multimillionaire very quickly. Owning a few typical properties in Cleveland gets you an extra $500 a month.
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Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
California has the highest share if investor owned homes in the nation So it appears that a lot of RE investors are choosing to purchase and own in CA.
https://www.corelogic.com/intelligence/total-investor-home-p...
Why do people invest in ca? It is because of the return.
Case shiller used to publish numbers for highest residential return for large cities for this century. I believe they have not published this in a few years now. The last one i saw had the top 3 cities being Ca cities (San Francisco o, los angeles, san diego) because the 1) appreciation and cash flow are tightly coupled over a hold period. So the cash flow as a percentage of investment was higher than virtually all markets that had far higher initial cash flow. There was a year a few years ago that my lical market had over $500/month average rent increase. Imagine how that improves cash flow. 2) appreciation in high appreciation markets dwarfs cash flow in low cost markets.
This summer we did a rehab where we added a half bathroom out of existing space. The comps showed a half bathroom in this area added ~$50k of value. In general value adds add much more value for both the cost and effort than lower cost markets. adding half bathroom costs only a bit more in hcol areas than LCOL areas with most of the materials being similarly priced. The effort for the added bathroom for the rehabber is similar in both markets. Why would one choose value adds that produce lower returns than can be achieved in other markets?Now specific to my san diego market. It has near lowest historical vacancy rate, delinquency rate, and eviction rate in the country. the reality is the low vacancy rates make for tenants that take fairly good care of the units and pay on time. Our delinquency rate is below 1%. Eviction rate 0%.
Many investors realize the value of investing in California RE as evidenced by the high investor ownership rate.However, the local Buy and hold RE market, like most areas in the country, is more challenging than most of the last dozen years. The most sure path for local RE investors seems to be with a near term exit.
Best wishes
- 1yDana FurbyPro MemberNew to Real Estate · CA · Member since 2024 · 8 posts · 15 votes
The horror stories about California are really overblown. I’ve lived here most of my life and while it’s too expensive for sure, that’s is the case for a reason: it’s beautiful and you have every natural element (mountains, desert, beach, forest) within a couple hours drive. San Francisco is a major city with some issues and stupid policies, but that comes and goes in cycles all the time. California is always a good time if you don’t get all bent out of shape about politics. Same with most states. People’s politics are the least interesting thing about them everywhere in my opinion.
- 1yJonathan SmallPro MemberInvestor · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2020 · 182 posts · 151 votes
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
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Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
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Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
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World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
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Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
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Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
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Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
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- Real Estate Agent · Shoreham, NY · Member since 2016 · 96 posts · 44 votes1y
What red states have real estate values like California? If we evaluate real estate returns what states have higher values or returns? Red states or blue states?
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
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- It mid-70 deg today, so while half the country is dealing with the vortex i hung out at the beach. In the summer while the other half of the country is dealing with sweltering heat, i'm still hanging at the beach. Weather aside, I started investing in CA 10 years ago for diversification, but also because it still has sound investment fundamentals.
Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
The weather is better, there's way more to do, quality of living is better, and the diversity of food is hard to beat. I've lived in many cities across the US and around the world, so I've tried to remove as much bias as I can. I also invest in the midwest and sunbelt, so I'm not partial to one location for investment purposes. And while better quality of life and more things to do may not be important to you as an individual, it will still attract/retain general population over time.
yes CA business laws here are tougher to navigate, but that creates a barrier to entry. I believe that all businesses reach equilibrium, so returns should not be better in any other state/city than the other once you normalize for effort, risk and barriers to entry. Think about this - the metro city that I invest in has a greater population base than every other state in the US, aside from TX and FL. That is intrinsic demand in a diverse economy that will likely never go away. Supply side is also limited by regulations and cost efficiency.
People talk about net migration, but I also think that may be transient. I think US, like most other developed economies, will face base population decline over time. To offset that decline, we will increase immigration to maintain GDP. And people aren't immigrating to the US with aspirations to live in OH (despite my family doing so). While CA seems expensive to rest of US, it isn't that expensive compared to many other countries around the world.
To invest here you certainly need liquidity, and need to also understand investment analysis. You can't simply use year-1 cash flow, COCR or other simple metrics. You need to use IRR modeling since cash flows are not evenly distributed. And yes, you'll likely also run negative CF in early years. A typical MF property that I purchase runs negative $20k for the first few years. So i'm negative $50k before my CF turns around (part of that is principal), but once it turns the positive CF is significantly greater than other regions. And while most people "don't bank" on appreciation, I do for the fundamentals noted earlier. Over a 15 yr hold period, i've seen my CA IRRs beat all my other locations.
I think most people who've seen appreciation over the 5 years are mixing inflation with appreciation. I also think the migration patterns post covid aren't sustainable, so places with true appreciation like ID and MT may flatten out. Employment is increasing in some midwest and gulf coast cities, but land is plentiful in those areas and you can keep building, so asset value will be indexed to construction costs (ie. inflation more than appreciation). Everyone who bought 5+ years ago is doing well, but going forward you need to keep in mind fundamentals driving supply/demand. - 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Phillip Austin:
@Jay Hinrichs @Russell Brazil Got it. So REI in California only makes sense if you've been there since the 70s or 80s OR if you're financially well off and can afford a few million dollar properties.
thats like saying all real estate in CO is priced like Boulder or Aspen or Vail.
all states have expensive areas CA is no exception however CA has areas ( many) were prices are lower than Denver for sure and modest by west coast standards.. Although there is no pricing like you get in Ohio or much of the mid west or rust belt.. so much of those areas RE cost less than replacement cost even if the lots were free.. just is what it is.. - Yes this is referring to net DOMESTIC migration which means to/from other states over the past 20 years, but there is also immigration from other countries which has lead to overall population growth from 1850-2019, with 2020-2022 being the only time period the population declined (lots of people fled the big crowded cities when they were all of a sudden able to work remotely and the amenities those cities offered were shut down anyway). 2023 saw an uptick in overall population again, albeit a small one, about 75,000 more people overall than 2022 factoring in both migration out and immigration in. California is a jumping off point for immigrants especially from Asian countries and Mexico, but a lot of people also leave the crowded and expensive cities there for other less crowded and less expensive states.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Steve K.:
The population is also on the rebound as of 2023, I believe it is growing again now after a few years of flat/ slight decline around 2020-2023.Not so fast. They are playing with numbers. Below is from the state itself: Apparently it has slowed but still hundreds of people PER DAY exit the state if you look at NET numbers.
"For nearly 20 years, California has experienced negative net domestic migration, in which the number of people moving out of the state in a year exceeds the number moving in." - 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
When I talk to investors in San Francisco, they often have problems like:
"I'm worth $7.5M, but all of my wealth is in 4 rental properties I own in San Francisco and my condo."
California real estate investors enjoy:
- Sustained demand - if you have all the money in the world, California is a great place to live.
- Sustained limitations on supply - all those "tenant friendly" laws that landlords on BiggerPockets love to hate on actually work wonders for the landlords, at tenant's expense, over the long-term.
When you offer huge protections, including fixing rent, or not allowing landlords to evict/not renew, you limit new supply. No one is buying old properties in San Francisco, kicking out the tenants, and building nice shiny new inventory, because San Francisco doesn't really allow or encourage it. This means... less new supply.
Take a market like Austin, TX. This is a place that allows the market to work. Builders can come in, buy inventory, evict, and build new stuff. So they did!
Too many investors take their politics too shallowly. San Francisco and many parts of California have very bad housing policies. But, these are bad, long-term, because they inflate prices and rents, by prohibiting the market, directly or indirectly, from creating supply to meet demand.
Austin TX investors have to give incredible concessions to fill quality inventory. San Francisco investors get hundreds of applications from extremely well-qualified applicants every time there is a vacancy.
This is as landlord friendly as it gets over 30+ years. And, those who invest in certain markets today, will, I believe, be rewarded for taking the 1 in 1,000 risk of having a "professional tenant" truly take advantage of them.
If I lived in SFO, I'd bet on it all day.
And, for what it's worth, the ultra ridiculousness that allows the streets to be so unclean is easily fixable in a single election. The general misguidedness of not allowing new construction to take place at scale due to long-term tenant protection laws is not.
Highest yield.
The limitations the state has hurts and helps investors; housing scarcity, tenant friendly.
The only negatives with investing in California are barrier to entry and having to keep more cash set aside as reserves for the tenant risk.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
Ah, @Dan H. I knew you'd be along to defend your beloved Cali. First of all, I was not disparaging CA, mainly just replying to Steven B. who doesn't know much about AZ apparently.
And in my 40 years in Cali, I explored that state from one end to the other, and yes, it is a beautiful state. So is AZ. Is one superior, or inferior? I would say no, but you'll most likely opine that Cali is superior to everywhere in the whole world....and that's ok, your opinion works for you. In my reading of this post and others you write, you definitley have a bit of an elitist mindset, but that's ok too....
I think they are both insanely gorgeous states with many different natural places of beauty. You know what's funny? Most Zonies think their state is wonderful but guess which state they pick as #1 in geographic beauty? Utah. Yep, Utah. And it is pretty stunning, that's for sure.
I think we're lucky and blessed to live in a part of the world (the American Southwest) that offers so much beauty....
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesMy missed point was that US citizens are voting with their feet and moving vans and have for a couple decades. A foreign worker moving to take a high-paying tech job does not have the same meaning to me.
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Ah, @Dan H. I knew you'd be along to defend your beloved Cali. First of all, I was not disparaging CA, mainly just replying to Steven B. who doesn't know much about AZ apparently.
And in my 40 years in Cali, I explored that state from one end to the other, and yes, it is a beautiful state. So is AZ. Is one superior, or inferior? I would say no, but you'll most likely opine that Cali is superior to everywhere in the whole world....and that's ok, your opinion works for you. In my reading of this post and others you write, you definitley have a bit of an elitist mindset, but that's ok too....
I think they are both insanely gorgeous states with many different natural places of beauty. You know what's funny? Most Zonies think their state is wonderful but guess which state they pick as #1 in geographic beauty? Utah. Yep, Utah. And it is pretty stunning, that's for sure.
I think we're lucky and blessed to live in a part of the world (the American Southwest) that offers so much beauty....
Utah is beautiful with great national parks/monuments. Arizona is beautiful with many sites to visit. I have explored both extensively. I have been to every national monument/park in both states except petrified forest. They both have great places to visit.
Neither have the environment diversity of CA, but if you have no interest in the ocean the difference is less. Even discounting the ocean, ca has the highest and lowest spots in continuous US (and you can do them both in the same day if you are fit enough). The Sierras suck the rain out of the storms so it has the 1000s of lakes and the area to the east of them are dryer (not the same)
living in San Diego versus arizona or utah is no comparison weather wise. It was mid 70s today. San Diego official temperature seldom is above 90 degrees. The average temp in january ranges from a low of 47 to a high of 69 degrees. Sure looks nice. The average temp in july ranges from a low of 67 to a high of 87. Sure looks nice. Every month of the year has nice average weather.
It certainly is not cheap to live in San Diego (fortunately that is no longer an issue for me). There are a lot of people. When it snows, the crowds go to the mountains. When the desert flowers bloom, the crowds go to the desert. Most beaches are crowded every weekend in the summer but some locals can still find beaches that are not crowded. No top league professional football, basketball, or hockey teams. San diego has great weather, but it has some issues. I could live where ever i want and choose to live in san diego. Those not struggling financially to live here can live where they want. My community is filled with professional athletes that could live anywhere but choose to live in poway.
San Diego is not perfect, but it is the best i have found for me. Others have different priorities. One priority has to be able to financially live there. The average San Diego house is beyond $1m. This year the average San Diego home (including condos) will likely pass $1m.
The best place for any individual will depend on their priorities. san Diego is too expensive for many people. It may be too liberal for some people (the board of supervisors is currently 2-2 party affiliation due to a democratic member stepping down and one of the leading contenders (mayor of Chula Vista) for replacement is a republican. It is too crowded for some (including me which is why i do not mind people leaving San diego). It is not for everyone.
I hope everyone loves where they live as much as i love san Diego.
Best wishes
- Investor / Mentor / Contractor · Arcadia, CA Buying Out of State · Member since 2015 · 655 posts · 622 votes1y
Here's my investing motto:
Live where ever you want to live, invest ONLY where it makes sense.
For me I'd never live anywhere but SoCal - yeah the weather is that great.
But for investing I'll never own rentals there.
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
My missed point was that US citizens are voting with their feet and moving vans and have for a couple decades. A foreign worker moving to take a high-paying tech job does not have the same meaning to me.Quote from @Steve K.:
I didn't miss your point, I'm just not buying the false narrative which certain news organizations like to peddle that there's some kind of mass exodus of people out of CA "voting with their feet". Sure there are definitely some but considering that only around half of our eligible voters even bother to show up to vote, I highly doubt that a high percentage of the people leaving are willing to upend their lives, quit their jobs, leave their family and friends and move out of the state due to politics, despite not even voting.
My guess is that the net out-migration from CA is more due to affordability issues, but I'm no expert demographer. Immigration typically makes up for those leaving, leading to overall population growth with 2020-2022 years being the exception to the rule. California isn't growing as fast as it once did but it did begin growing again in 2023. That's just the numbers and investors should focus on numbers and metrics like supply and demand not whatever laws James is talking about that bother him even though he doesn't live there.
- Member since 2021 · 22 posts · 3 votes1y
People have many reasons to live in a specific area. The It looks like CA policies are starting to shift to be tougher on crime, but there are still structural Budget issues that remain. That being said, California is still an attractive place to live for many people due to the weather and tech sector that brings in a talented workforce. With return the return to office trend, we might see high income earners start to move back!
- 1yAustin WolffPro MemberRental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2024 · 139 posts · 134 votes
Almost feels like a "rage bait" post. 30M+ people live in CA, and many international investors (big money) still invest in CA for a reason. Many solid reasons have already been stated in this forum; ignore at your own will.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ voteshttps://golfwhitehawk.com/JIm just check this out and this will answer your question . Now there is winter cold and snow but Tahoe ski resorts are 45 minutes snow mobiling cross country etc.. then the weather in summer is 70 to 85 NO humidity and google the Sierra Buttes / Sierra City 20 minute drive up to the mountains and 15 Natural lakes full of trout etc.. I mean its nirvana on a grand scale.
Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
At White hawk nice homes are only 650 to 1.2 I almost bought the 1.2 but need one more year in Oregon before I cash out.. but if you look at the Town of Portola you can buy a very livable house for 200k to 300k basically same price as Cleveland for same vintage and quality.. And then your only 10 minutes from Lake Davis which is a high mountain stunning lake for all boating activities and great trout fishing. One hour to Reno.. This is why when folks say everything is millions of dollar in Ca they just have no clue.. Or how could anyone stand to live there LOL. I lived in the Napa Valley for 10 years that was not bad :) - Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
https://golfwhitehawk.com/JIm just check this out and this will answer your question . Now there is winter cold and snow but Tahoe ski resorts are 45 minutes snow mobiling cross country etc.. then the weather in summer is 70 to 85 NO humidity and google the Sierra Buttes / Sierra City 20 minute drive up to the mountains and 15 Natural lakes full of trout etc.. I mean its nirvana on a grand scale.Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
At White hawk nice homes are only 650 to 1.2 I almost bought the 1.2 but need one more year in Oregon before I cash out.. but if you look at the Town of Portola you can buy a very livable house for 200k to 300k basically same price as Cleveland for same vintage and quality.. And then your only 10 minutes from Lake Davis which is a high mountain stunning lake for all boating activities and great trout fishing. One hour to Reno.. This is why when folks say everything is millions of dollar in Ca they just have no clue.. Or how could anyone stand to live there LOL. I lived in the Napa Valley for 10 years that was not bad :)Looks nice, we've got a lot of golf course communities like that out here in Northeast Ohio. Pricing is probably pretty similar, $650k to $1.2M is pretty similar to what we'd have for something like that. We've also got a lot of $200k-$300k stuff as well in the Cleveland area suburbs. Cleveland itself much cheaper, but Cleveland itself is essentially one big Section 8 ghetto more or less.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
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- Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes1yJust like New York City, Long Island, Westchester, Northern NJ, Fairfield Connecticut and most of Massachusetts, you cannot beat the appreciation and demand for rentals when compared to OH, AL, MS, etc.
Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
As I tell everyone, learn to play the game, and you'll do fine in just about any area. Cali is tough, but so is Jersey and NYC. Screen wisely and be selective; but watch out with what you say. No need to have a fair housing issue. One has professional tenants in every state. - 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
https://golfwhitehawk.com/JIm just check this out and this will answer your question . Now there is winter cold and snow but Tahoe ski resorts are 45 minutes snow mobiling cross country etc.. then the weather in summer is 70 to 85 NO humidity and google the Sierra Buttes / Sierra City 20 minute drive up to the mountains and 15 Natural lakes full of trout etc.. I mean its nirvana on a grand scale.Quote from @James Wise:
Do people still buy property in California for any reason other than the weather? Seems like everything else about California sucks. High taxes. Soft on crime. People just stealing whatever and whenever they want. Homeless people living in tent cities pooping on the streets etc.....
Why do people still go to California?
At White hawk nice homes are only 650 to 1.2 I almost bought the 1.2 but need one more year in Oregon before I cash out.. but if you look at the Town of Portola you can buy a very livable house for 200k to 300k basically same price as Cleveland for same vintage and quality.. And then your only 10 minutes from Lake Davis which is a high mountain stunning lake for all boating activities and great trout fishing. One hour to Reno.. This is why when folks say everything is millions of dollar in Ca they just have no clue.. Or how could anyone stand to live there LOL. I lived in the Napa Valley for 10 years that was not bad :)Looks nice, we've got a lot of golf course communities like that out here in Northeast Ohio. Pricing is probably pretty similar, $650k to $1.2M is pretty similar to what we'd have for something like that. We've also got a lot of $200k-$300k stuff as well in the Cleveland area suburbs. Cleveland itself much cheaper, but Cleveland itself is essentially one big Section 8 ghetto more or less.
well I guess the difference is that Whitehawk is at 5k feet.. and all those moutains you see are national forest so LOTS to do.. not surrounded by private property per se like the mid west and the lack of Humidity is a plus in my mind.. I mean I spent one year in Jackson MS and the humidity is unbearable to me. Its one reason I did not move to Charleston SC years ago when I started building there I loved everything about it but that summer weather . - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
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Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
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Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
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Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
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Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
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Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
I am confused because here is what the data I find says:
Now I'm no expert on the topic but CA is still the only place I've ever been where people pop-out of the scrubery to ask if I want a BJ as entire family is loading back up (including grandkids) from a dinner out......
Only place I felt "safe" in CA was on base. Seems most in CA are rather desensitized to it all. That's my experiences.
MN #'s seem accurate to me. CA #'s, that's been my observation of things. OH, no idea, only ever passed through.
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- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
I am confused because here is what the data I find says:
Now I'm no expert on the topic but CA is still the only place I've ever been where people pop-out of the scrubery to ask if I want a BJ as entire family is loading back up (including grandkids) from a dinner out......
Only place I felt "safe" in CA was on base. Seems most in CA are rather desensitized to it all. That's my experiences.
MN #'s seem accurate to me. CA #'s, that's been my observation of things. OH, no idea, only ever passed through.
Bro..............you said you weren't going to tell anyone about that. I was only in those bushes because I lost one of my contact lenses.
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