Why do people Buy Property in California
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
Why do people Buy Property in California
Most Popular Reply
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
1yWhere do you think people are growing richer with real estate.....Los Angeles or Cleveland? Owning just a few typical properties in California turns you into a multimillionaire very quickly. Owning a few typical properties in Cleveland gets you an extra $500 a month.
District Invest Group545 Reviews
203 Replies
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishes-
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesWhat kind of person doesn't associate crime rate with cost of living? Of course one would and should assume that the cost of a property in a "safe neighborhood" would be more than the cost of a similar property in a "dangerous neighborhood." That's common sense.
-
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesWhat kind of person doesn't associate crime rate with cost of living? Of course one would and should assume that the cost of a property in a "safe neighborhood" would be more than the cost of a similar property in a "dangerous neighborhood." That's common sense.
I agree on a neighborhood basis. In general higher cost neighborhoods are safer than lower cost neighborhoods. Howevr, look at the stats on a city basis. There are LCOL cities with low crime rates and HCOL cities with high crime rates. There is not a tight coupling between price and violent crime rates. for example denton texas has one of the lowest violent crime rates. I highly suspect few people consider it a HCOL city. As indicated the correlation of LCOL cities having high crime rates and HCOL cities having low crime rates appears to not be strong.
Ca large cities have lower violent crime rates than many cities in other states that are a similar size.
California has the highest rate of investor homes in the nation because of the returns that can be achieved. There is nothing that trumps the return on why it has so many investor owned homes. Great appreciation, great cash flow on long holds, great value add opportunities, good tenants in most areas (my city delinquency and eviction rates are near the lowest in the country). There are lots of ways to make money in CA real estate for those that know what they are doing.
However, i recommend newbies start in or close to their home market. They need to identify the possibilities in their market. After that if they believe CA is the right market for them, they can join the plethora of investors that invest from all over the world in CA RE.
good luck-
- 1yRyan KellyBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Scott Trench nailed it. Many of my investors who buy in Austin are specifically from the Bay Area. Why? One word - equity. They are willing to trade one high-equity property in a tenant-friendly market like San Francisco for a more landlord-friendly growth market like Austin. Plus, they are watching their co-workers one at a time move this way and they want to "jump on the train" and join them by owning property here. Austin did get over-supplied following the pandemic and may take a year or two to get back to stabilization. The good news is we remain a fast-growing market with opportunities if you are a true long-term investor.
Ryan Kelly Group - Keller Williams5112 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
-
- 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Quote from @Ryan Kelly:
@Scott Trench nailed it. Many of my investors who buy in Austin are specifically from the Bay Area. Why? One word - equity. They are willing to trade one high-equity property in a tenant-friendly market like San Francisco for a more landlord-friendly growth market like Austin. Plus, they are watching their co-workers one at a time move this way and they want to "jump on the train" and join them by owning property here. Austin did get over-supplied following the pandemic and may take a year or two to get back to stabilization. The good news is we remain a fast-growing market with opportunities if you are a true long-term investor.
That's interesting that many of your clients are doing that! I think I'm actually arguing exactly opposite to your point, and think that these investors would be better off staying in SFO.
Austin's policies, which allow for large-scale development, are bad for landlords, because they encourage so much new construction, which inhibits rent and price growth. This is good for tenants and first time home buyers, and, good for the city as a whole. But, it is bad for landlords, long-term. I know that @Austin Wolff will push back and cite that construction is, in fact, correlated with long-term prices and rent growth, because it reflects underlying demand dynamics, but I'd bet against those in the case of Austin, TX over the next 5 years. I'd bet on Austin over 30 years, but again, not necessarily relative to SFO.
I'd be willing to place a nice little bet that, from current prices and rents, SFO experience higher compound annual price growth and higher compounding annual rent growth, than Austin TX, over the next 5 years.
Could be wrong, but it's always a bet when we forecast more than about 12 months out, right?
- 1yAustin WolffPro MemberRental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2024 · 139 posts · 134 votes
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Ryan Kelly:
@Scott Trench nailed it. Many of my investors who buy in Austin are specifically from the Bay Area. Why? One word - equity. They are willing to trade one high-equity property in a tenant-friendly market like San Francisco for a more landlord-friendly growth market like Austin. Plus, they are watching their co-workers one at a time move this way and they want to "jump on the train" and join them by owning property here. Austin did get over-supplied following the pandemic and may take a year or two to get back to stabilization. The good news is we remain a fast-growing market with opportunities if you are a true long-term investor.
That's interesting that many of your clients are doing that! I think I'm actually arguing exactly opposite to your point, and think that these investors would be better off staying in SFO.
Austin's policies, which allow for large-scale development, are bad for landlords, because they encourage so much new construction, which inhibits rent and price growth. This is good for tenants and first time home buyers, and, good for the city as a whole. But, it is bad for landlords, long-term. I know that @Austin Wolff will push back and cite that construction is, in fact, correlated with long-term prices and rent growth, because it reflects underlying demand dynamics, but I'd bet against those in the case of Austin, TX over the next 5 years. I'd bet on Austin over 30 years, but again, not necessarily relative to SFO.
I'd be willing to place a nice little bet that, from current prices and rents, SFO experience higher compound annual price growth and higher compounding annual rent growth, than Austin TX, over the next 5 years.
Could be wrong, but it's always a bet when we forecast more than about 12 months out, right?
I agree. The underlying dynamics are great for Austin, TX in the long-term (I'm absolutely bullish over a 30-year period). The next five years though? There's quite a bit going against investors (oversupply being the biggest challenge). I'm also not a fan of its high property taxes and rising insurance costs to begin with. It will definitely be interesting to see how the next five years play out!
Perhaps I should dive deeper and compare the two markets in an upcoming blog post.
- 1yRyan KellyBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Scott Trench I think both are true and I support your pro-CA theory, meaning the California investors make their money FIRST by investing in the Bay Area. That's where the biggest equity gains have been created over many decades. Once the investors are ready to move on, and many of my CA investors are tired of California for either price or political reasons, Austin becomes a market to move that equity into. Yes, Austin has pro-growth policies that can allow supply to keep up with demand, which can impact rents, but that will impact the suburbs more as they have the land for development. The city limits are fairly built out and struggling to meet housing demand. We've seen steady rent growth for decades, it's just having a harder time keeping up with the equity side. It's not a cheap market to invest in anymore for sure.
Ryan Kelly Group - Keller Williams5112 Reviews - 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
-
- 1yRyan KellyBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Austin Wolff keep up the good work Austin! I look forward to any deep dive into the markets you wish to undertake. I'm hesitant to take the "losing" side of a @Scott Trench bet, haha.
Ryan Kelly Group - Keller Williams5112 Reviews - 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Also, I am on a work trip to Menlo Park, CA as I write this. It's 60 degrees. Humidity is gloriously perfect. Every coffee shop and restaurant has outstanding service. Transportation options are plentiful. People seem friendly.
At home, in Denver, which I also love, it is 18 degrees. I left with a sniffle, with bleeding fingers, cracked lips, and a perpetual risk of a nosebleed in the heart of Denver winters that get so cold, my toes start to turn blue after 5 minutes outside. These problems have completely evaporated in less than 24 hours. I return to my cocktail of winter moisturizers tonight when I land in Denver.
I understand why it is more expensive here. I'm also not even in the nice part of California, much farther down South. I understand why it is extremely expensive down there too. San Diego, and the strip of California between San Diego and California, is some of the most glorious land on this Earth. And, unlike other beautiful places, like the mountains near Denver, or those in Arizona, it's always a good time to live there (at least if you like the idea of long pants and/or a jacket being truly optional). Last time I visited San Clemente, my uber driver told me that he has not had a heater or an air conditioner functioning in his home for the last 16 years, and doesn't miss it, with very rare summer exceptions.
If you have the money, I imagine it's a pretty good place to be. All the opportunity, weather, food, and culture you can ask for. I literally want to vacation to San Diego. Somehow, Southern California, at least those areas right by the coast, also escape the discomfort of a large amount of insects. Not a lot of screen doors or porches. Those are a nasty surprise whenever I go to Texas or the South (we also don't really get a ton of bugs in Denver, though they are there in the mountains).
Problems? Of course. But, maybe not so large as the people out of state like to imagine them to be. California's economy, and real estate market, ain't going anywhere.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
Oh by no stretch of the imagination would any sane person call Minneapolis "safe", not anymore. It slingshoted from arguably one of the safest, to arguably the worst. And it was 100% politics driven.
Minneapolis is operating at about 50% PD staffing now due to the collective stupidity. And people cheered it, until..... Until there garage got broke into, the call 911 and get told if nobody is hurt, if nobody has em at gunpoint, they'll try to stop by within the week.
Took collective criminals about a week to figure out new PD policy was if no person in risk or harmed, don't pursue, stop by when available IF available.
Hence the exodus from Mpls too outer ring suburbs where the exact opposite policy's have been held and sworn to be kept.
Now Mpls is scratching it's head wondering why so many have left, they just can't figure it out, lol. With about a bazillion sqft of vacant space now, and the tax revenue of the previously occupied gone.
I'd coin Mpls "idiocy-squared".
-
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
As I suspected most arguments for wanting to buy and or live in California were weather related. Even the appreciation angle seems to stem directly from how amazing the weather is. That's understandable. The weather is pretty sweet and I can see why so many people are willing to put up with the negatives because of how awesome the weather is.
So, having said that, a much more interesting question seems to be Why do people Live in New York? New York City has a lot of the same problems as California, high taxes, soft on crime, Homeless Problem, Super Expensive etc.... and it also has really crappy weather.
I can understand California, it's got it's appeal. New York City though, seems like a a total dump with no redeeming qualities.
- 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
@James Wise NYC, and Manhattan specifically, are magical man made creations. If you are the best in the world at something, you often go to NYC.
When I visit Manhattan, I'm amazed at how the world really seems to revolve around that city. The best acting, best jobs, best food, famous landmarks, best museums, best park, best comedy, etc are all arguably located there.
It allows the ultimate lifestyle for those who can generate the income, the ultimate opportunities, and the ultimate optionality.
If you are an elite actor or athlete or executive, NYC allows you the option to do nothing but excel at that. There is no reason to own property, no reason to ever cook for yourself, no reason to own a car, and no reason to ever be bored. Anything and everything is available at a moment's notice.
NYC is not for me like California and Denver might be, but when I visit I am blown away. There is no doubt, that, if maximizing the quality of my life experiences including luxury dining, entertainment, and/or the pursuit of a job in high finance, I would consider New York.
fortunately, I prefer running, mountain biking, taking my kid to the pool, and reading her books by our fire.
These activities do not give NYC an advantage.
But I also would not bet against New York. For some reason, I feel that it is harder to analyze NYC, and it's real estate market, than the rest of the country. I feel like they play by more subtle or more aggressive rules that I don't understand quite as easily as simpler markets like Denver and even places like San Francisco. So I fear the unknown in NYC and don't touch it. That might be silly.
But, I'm sure that a long term thesis, grounded in fundamentals, will do super well in NYC. And, that people will, over the next 30 years grow very rich with New York real estate, the outliers growing 2-5 orders of magnitude more wealthy than their peers in the Midwest.
- The answer for NYC is the same as for CA: high paying jobs for those buying primary residences and the high overall returns for those buying investment properties.
Quote from @James Wise:
As I suspected most arguments for wanting to buy and or live in California were weather related. Even the appreciation angle seems to stem directly from how amazing the weather is. That's understandable. The weather is pretty sweet and I can see why so many people are willing to put up with the negatives because of how awesome the weather is.
So, having said that, a much more interesting question seems to be Why do people Live in New York? New York City has a lot of the same problems as California, high taxes, soft on crime, Homeless Problem, Super Expensive etc.... and it also has really crappy weather.
I can understand California, it's got it's appeal. New York City though, seems like a a total dump with no redeeming qualities.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @James Wise:
As I suspected most arguments for wanting to buy and or live in California were weather related. Even the appreciation angle seems to stem directly from how amazing the weather is. That's understandable. The weather is pretty sweet and I can see why so many people are willing to put up with the negatives because of how awesome the weather is.
So, having said that, a much more interesting question seems to be Why do people Live in New York? New York City has a lot of the same problems as California, high taxes, soft on crime, Homeless Problem, Super Expensive etc.... and it also has really crappy weather.
I can understand California, it's got it's appeal. New York City though, seems like a a total dump with no redeeming qualities.
what a sheeeeet disturber you are too funny. I think we could say the same for London ,Paris , Zurich, Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo etc ..
Same thing people think Japan is super expensive and of course Prime inner city is but you can buy nice homes out in the country for 30 to 50k that rent for 500 to 700 and talk about some of the best renters on the planet we know how respectful the Japanese are.
- 1yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Also, I am on a work trip to Menlo Park, CA as I write this. It's 60 degrees. Humidity is gloriously perfect. Every coffee shop and restaurant has outstanding service. Transportation options are plentiful. People seem friendly.
At home, in Denver, which I also love, it is 18 degrees. I left with a sniffle, with bleeding fingers, cracked lips, and a perpetual risk of a nosebleed in the heart of Denver winters that get so cold, my toes start to turn blue after 5 minutes outside. These problems have completely evaporated in less than 24 hours. I return to my cocktail of winter moisturizers tonight when I land in Denver.
I understand why it is more expensive here. I'm also not even in the nice part of California, much farther down South. I understand why it is extremely expensive down there too. San Diego, and the strip of California between San Diego and California, is some of the most glorious land on this Earth. And, unlike other beautiful places, like the mountains near Denver, or those in Arizona, it's always a good time to live there (at least if you like the idea of long pants and/or a jacket being truly optional). Last time I visited San Clemente, my uber driver told me that he has not had a heater or an air conditioner functioning in his home for the last 16 years, and doesn't miss it, with very rare summer exceptions.
If you have the money, I imagine it's a pretty good place to be. All the opportunity, weather, food, and culture you can ask for. I literally want to vacation to San Diego. Somehow, Southern California, at least those areas right by the coast, also escape the discomfort of a large amount of insects. Not a lot of screen doors or porches. Those are a nasty surprise whenever I go to Texas or the South (we also don't really get a ton of bugs in Denver, though they are there in the mountains).
Problems? Of course. But, maybe not so large as the people out of state like to imagine them to be. California's economy, and real estate market, ain't going anywhere.
were you up on Sand Hill Road meeting with all the big time venture capitalist investors :) ?- 1yScott TrenchPro MemberRental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
Haha no sand hill road. Visiting our investors, yes! They have offices in LA, Menlo Park, and NYC.
- Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2016 · 116 posts · 83 votes1y
Look up Moses Kagan on X. He runs Adaptive Reality and they are killing it. They figured out the formula. They know rental demand is sky high due to rent control and building restrictions. They buy an apartment, remodel it to hipster sensibilities and list it for 4k-5k a month. They have the system down.
- 1yBruce WoodruffPro MemberContractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votesMost Cali transplants to the Valley agree that the weather - from October to mid May - is superior to my good ole San Diego. Mid 70's, dry and balmy every day. No mist, no fog, no June gloom or May gray..... That's why the 'snow-birds' flock there. No ocean though so ya got me there....
Quote from @Dan H.:
living in San Diego versus arizona or utah is no comparison weather wise. It was mid 70s today.
However, the months from June - Sept can be brutal, unless you're hanging out at a pool with ASU coeds..... - I was comparing large cities to other large cities. Many states do not have a city as large as los Angeles, dan diego, or san francisco. It is tough to compare states with no big cities to a state with multiple large cities.
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
i have lived in California virtually my entire life and have never been solicited for a bj. In san diego, you need to seek the sex areas (or be near the bases) to find them. -
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Scott Trench:
@James Wise NYC, and Manhattan specifically, are magical man made creations. If you are the best in the world at something, you often go to NYC.
When I visit Manhattan, I'm amazed at how the world really seems to revolve around that city. The best acting, best jobs, best food, famous landmarks, best museums, best park, best comedy, etc are all arguably located there.
It allows the ultimate lifestyle for those who can generate the income, the ultimate opportunities, and the ultimate optionality.
If you are an elite actor or athlete or executive, NYC allows you the option to do nothing but excel at that. There is no reason to own property, no reason to ever cook for yourself, no reason to own a car, and no reason to ever be bored. Anything and everything is available at a moment's notice.
NYC is not for me like California and Denver might be, but when I visit I am blown away. There is no doubt, that, if maximizing the quality of my life experiences including luxury dining, entertainment, and/or the pursuit of a job in high finance, I would consider New York.
fortunately, I prefer running, mountain biking, taking my kid to the pool, and reading her books by our fire.
These activities do not give NYC an advantage.
But I also would not bet against New York. For some reason, I feel that it is harder to analyze NYC, and it's real estate market, than the rest of the country. I feel like they play by more subtle or more aggressive rules that I don't understand quite as easily as simpler markets like Denver and even places like San Francisco. So I fear the unknown in NYC and don't touch it. That might be silly.
But, I'm sure that a long term thesis, grounded in fundamentals, will do super well in NYC. And, that people will, over the next 30 years grow very rich with New York real estate, the outliers growing 2-5 orders of magnitude more wealthy than their peers in the Midwest.
Damn brother, when ya'll sell BP to Facebook I think you've got a future as a travel author. You made some really crappy stuff sound really cool. For a super high income Bachelor or something of that sort maybe there is some appeal in what you said, but for people with families, na man I don't see any upside to NYC. Sure, California, I'm with ya. I get it, it's beautiful, it's got the beaches and wonderful weather, but NYC? No way man.
Public Transport - There is no appeal to not having to have a car, you've got people peeing on the subway, choking each other to death, setting each other on fire, lol public transport is not a draw.
Landmarks - How many times can one go look at the Statue of Liberty in their life? Once seems like more than enough.
Not having to cook - We got Uber Eats in all 50 states brother.
Greatest Park - Na bro, I've been watching Ice-T, Elliot Stabler and Olivia Benson pull dead bodies out of that sucker for 20+ years.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
I was comparing large cities to other large cities. Many states do not have a city as large as los Angeles, dan diego, or san francisco. It is tough to compare states with no big cities to a state with multiple large cities.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
i have lived in California virtually my entire life and have never been solicited for a bj. In san diego, you need to seek the sex areas (or be near the bases) to find them.Send me the addresses of these areas immediately. (so I know not to go there)
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- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes1y
Quote from @Dan H.:
I was comparing large cities to other large cities. Many states do not have a city as large as los Angeles, dan diego, or san francisco. It is tough to compare states with no big cities to a state with multiple large cities.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
i have lived in California virtually my entire life and have never been solicited for a bj. In san diego, you need to seek the sex areas (or be near the bases) to find them.It was Oceanside.... I was staying at Pendleton.
-
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
I was comparing large cities to other large cities. Many states do not have a city as large as los Angeles, dan diego, or san francisco. It is tough to compare states with no big cities to a state with multiple large cities.Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Jonathan Small:
You've raised some valid concerns about California, and it's true that the state faces significant challenges. However, dismissing it entirely based on these issues overlooks several factors that continue to attract people and investment:
-
Diverse Economy: California boasts a massive and diverse economy, far beyond just Hollywood. It's a global leader in technology (Silicon Valley), agriculture (Central Valley), international trade (ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach), and tourism. This economic strength creates job opportunities and attracts talent from around the world.
-
Innovation and Entrepreneurship: California has a deeply ingrained culture of innovation and entrepreneurship. It's a hub for startups, venture capital, and cutting-edge research. This attracts ambitious individuals seeking to build the next big thing.
-
World-Class Universities: California is home to some of the world's most prestigious universities, including Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Caltech. These institutions attract top students and faculty, contributing to the state's intellectual capital and driving innovation.
-
Natural Beauty and Diversity: While you mentioned the weather (which is undeniably a major draw for many), California's natural beauty extends far beyond sunny beaches. It encompasses diverse landscapes, including mountains (Sierra Nevada), forests (Redwoods), deserts (Death Valley), and national parks (Yosemite, Sequoia). This offers a wide range of outdoor activities and recreational opportunities.
-
Cultural Hubs: Cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco are major cultural centers, offering world-class museums, theaters, music venues, and diverse culinary scenes. They attract artists, creatives, and people who appreciate a vibrant urban lifestyle.
-
Real Estate Appreciation (Historically): @Dan H. points this out with his bathroom addition. While recent years have presented challenges, California real estate has historically seen significant appreciation, particularly in desirable coastal areas. This has made it an attractive investment for some, though high prices and increasing interest rates are currently impacting affordability.
Addressing your specific points:
- High Taxes: Yes, California has high taxes, particularly income tax. However, many high-income earners are willing to pay these taxes for the perceived benefits of living and working in California, such as access to opportunities, infrastructure, and services.
- Crime and Homelessness: These are serious issues in some parts of California, particularly in major cities. However, it's important to avoid generalizations. Crime rates vary significantly by neighborhood and city. While the homelessness crisis is a complex problem, it's not unique to California and is being addressed through various initiatives.
In summary: While California has its problems, it's not a simple case of "everything else sucks." The state's economic dynamism, natural beauty, cultural attractions, and educational institutions continue to draw people and investment. Whether these factors outweigh the challenges is a personal decision.
San diego, los angeles, and san Francisco violent crime rate is low compared to most large cities outside california. The 3 of them are below Cincinnati, cleveland, and toledo.
The lowest city on the list on wikipedia for violent crime is irvine, CA
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
Any violent crime is too high but i travel a bit. I feel far safer in the roughest parts of San Diego than i do in many large cities outside CA.
People seldom look at actual crime numbers. What they see is what their media presents to them. A crime in a low crime area may be media worthy but the same crime in a high crime area may be just another day.
in my neighborhood (poway), kids playing doorbell ditch or riding 3 on an electric bike warrants posting on social media and dozens of comments (no exaggeration). Must be nice that those “crimes” deserve so much attention.It is my belief that most RE investors are best served initially investing near their home. After they have some experience they can decide if other markets are likely to suit them better. I believe this is true for high price san Francisco and lower priced detroit and most markets in between.
Best wishes
San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco having a lower violent crime rate than Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Toledo is not an accomplishment by any means. You are comparing 3 cities where you pay one of the highest premiums in the USA to live to 3 of the cheapest cities in the USA. This would be like me telling you my Escalade drives better than your KIA. Duhhhh, of course it does.
The post i was replying to implied a serious crime rate in large CA cities. That is not true.
i also do not associate crime rate with cost of living and find it interesting that you do. If you look at the list, there is not a strong correlation between price and violent crime rate but more important, the large california cities are lower than most large cities in other states. The stats seem to indicate there is not a violent crime issue in large CA cities that some people believe exists. They have that belief in large part due to media sensationalizing certain crimes. The violent crime stats tell a different story.
best wishesI have no idea where you inventing your wildly incorrect ideas that CA is some hippie commune of pacifists and happy huggers.
Look, people are with the idea that CA has one of the HIGHEST crime rates in US, because it DOES. That's just the fact's jack.
#6 for highest VILOENT crime rate in country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...
#9 for most dangerous states in country by this list for violent crime rate https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/10-most-d...
I have no idea how a person can flip the facts to opposite, but that is the actual real data.
I mean come on man, San-Fran's most popular app is how to navigate the poop and camps. L.A. is heroin city. Do you really think it's a secret?
Yeah, I know there is really nice areas but fact is, as a whole, CA is a hot mess. And it ain't those in the rural areas carjacking, drivebuys, rapping and doing armed robbery.
What's super interesting about this argument, James, is that Minneapolis is actually much more violent as a city, than San Francisco. San Francisco has a higher property crime rate.
San Diego, where @Dan H. invests, blows Minneapolis out of the water - it's WAY safer in every category.
California has it's pockets of high crime areas, but San Diego is not one of them.
i have lived in California virtually my entire life and have never been solicited for a bj. In san diego, you need to seek the sex areas (or be near the bases) to find them.It was Oceanside.... I was staying at Pendleton.
Outside bases, especially on military payday, is one of those places you can find sex providers easily in San Diego area. They can be assertive/aggressive in obtaining a client.
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- Real Estate Agent · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes1y
There are a few reasons:
1. Despite what people think about California, it tends to appreciate well and in general vacancies are low. My rental has rented for 18% more in three years from the previous tenant.
2. Yes, taxes are high, but property taxes are capped at 2% per year. Other states there may not be a cap, which makes it harder to control expenses.
3. Low building levels keeps inventory low. It is too expensive to build and there isn't land. That was my issue with Texas. Every time I would analyze a 2-4 unit, I would see brand new apartment complexes nearby. I wouldn't be able to compete with those amenities other than price.
4. You mentioned the weather. It is a great marketing tool to recruit high paying jobs. It is a recruiting tool for companies.
5. Bigger dollar amounts means you can arguably build wealth faster. 3% appreciation on a $1M asset is better than a 3% appreciation on a $100K asset. Same principal for rents, mortgage buy downs, etc.
6. California actually has a lot to offer. In So Cal, you can go surfing in the morning and snowboarding by the afternoon in the same day.
7. Cost of construction has gone up everywhere. I had to do major tree trimming that cost almost $5K in Birmingham, Al. It is going to take me longer to recoup that money than if I had a property here.
The big thing with California is that you have to utilize what the state offers. Otherwise, you need to move. I'm not saying get the Disneyland Annual Pass, but go to Santa Monica and enjoy the beach scene, go to SF and experience Union Square. There's good food choices, culture, theme parks, etc. Plus major airports for those who like to travel. There have been times when it was cheaper or the same price to travel internationally than to travel just to another state. In LA you can go hiking, play tennis, go to museums, most are low cost or actually free.
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