Bad Wholesalers

Bad Wholesalers

Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I'm not a negative person. But, my latest encounter with a specific wholesaling operation in DFW has once again left me with a nasty taste in my mouth. It's bad enough I have wholesalers marketing "deals" to me that are 90% of ARV and are being pitched as "great", "hot", "unbelievable" deals. Really? I know deals are hard to come by, but a lousy deal is NOT a deal. Anyway...back to the point...

The rep that I just encountered from this group had advertised a property in a very desirable portion of North Dallas...an area of particular interest to me. Once I got their "package", I quickly recognized the property. It was listed on the MLS. I had already run the numbers on it and passed. Now these clowns were offering it at $8k over the MLS list price. Not only that, they were up to their old tricks of vastly overstating the ARV. In this case by close to $100k.

I'm posting this as a warning to all the deal starved investors in the DFW Metroplex.  BUYER BEWARE!  Do your own due diligence.  Don't think, just because a package looks polished and well put together, and there is a actual business behind the reps marketing it that it makes it a legitimate deal.  The new tactic with these guys is..."This property is likely to sell within the hour."  Great!  Let it sell to someone else who will be stuck with a bad deal.  You should know your business well enough to run the numbers in less than 5-min anyway.  

Seriously folks...there are investors...mostly new ones...dropping the prices on flips all over Richardson, because they over reached on the purchase with an overly optimistic ARV. They are holding the properties longer than they thought, because properties (in general) are no longer selling above market, even though inventories continue to fall. Then, after they have incurred unplanned holding costs, they are having to reduce the price and further slashing their margins.

Be smart.  There is money to be made in this market, particularly with inventories as low as they are, but your profit is made on the purchase, not the sale.  If you buy to high, you're going to regret it later.  Don't get sucked in by the folks taking advantage of the bare market.

Good luck!

Hattie

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Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y

While it is unfortunate I'm afraid this thread (like several other) will take the bash the wholesalers route. 

 My advice for all wholesalers came from @Jerry Puckett. There are only 2 #'s you should need to give your buyers. The address and the asking price. Let them do their own due diligence. There is a reason why my buyers come back to me. 

@Hattie Dizmond I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. Guys like that mess it up for those of us actually trying to help folks. (Get started AND Get out.) 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Lake Mary, FL · Member since 2014 · 118 posts · 54 votes
    11y

    Not every wholesaler is bad. I started in wholesale about 4 years ago and I have seen the good and the bad. I had a deposit check, signed contract and something didn't feel right when my buyer left my office. I reran the numbers and called him and told him I just tore up his deposit check. He yelled at me a little, but I couldn't let him buy the house after running the numbers again. I called an appraiser that I had dealt with and I ended up being right. He would have lost money on his first deal. A week later I found him another house and he made a 30k net. Not all are bad and some do care. Ask a lot of questions and do your research to the best of your ability. We are sales people out to make money and that is our job. As a wholesaler when inventory gets dried up the numbers get a little more whacky. The quick buck wholesalers usually get weeded out pretty fast in the Orlando are, because it is a tight knit area and word gets around quick. I know there is not a lot of advice in this, but just some good ole honesty.

    @Ryan Kopczyk closes a lot of wholesalers deals in Central Florida and would be a good person for unbiased advice. 

  • Lender · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 664 posts · 231 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Carlton Kohler:

    @Bruce May As a wholesaler myself, wouldn't you as a buyer LIKE to see that a wholesaler who is offering you a "deal" had already done their own due diligence? Of course it's good advice for everyone to not take someone on their word and do their own due diligence until they have built a positive relationship with them. As a wholesaler, I'm not going to send anyone just an address and a price without letting them see how I got to the number first. 

    As a wholesaler and a flipper I know what it takes to get a deal done from both positions. I'd love other wholesalers do their own due diligence. The reality seems to be that they don't and continue to use unrealistic figures.

  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    This just shows that you always need to do your own due diligence, know your market and not take a wholesalers word for what the ARV is or construction estimates.

  • Investor · Saint Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 35 posts · 7 votes
    11y

    I tried working with a new wholesaler here... he had super secret deals just for me except they were  already on Craig's   List and  he sure got  mad when I pointed that out 

  • Investor · DFW, TX · Member since 2013 · 319 posts · 101 votes
    11y

    For just 2999.99, I'll teach you all about the super secret craigs-list-option strategy. A 10,000 dollar value!!!

    Nice one @Zana Blue

  • Investor · Valdosta, GA · Member since 2015 · 187 posts · 112 votes
    11y

    The first thread I read in its entirety on BP was the "Truth about Wholesaling" sticky. This is pretty much the same warning.

    It's bad that so many people are bad wholesalers, but it gives me more faith in myself. Reason #1 is because I've had my phone ringing with seller leads every week since February. None of them are listed or have even spoken with an agent about selling yet.

    I'm still a newbie, but even I can tell that the newbie wholesalers who advertise MLS "deals" (not) are simply in this to get rich quick. And that means they're not going to last long because it's not how good wholesaling works.

    I appreciate when investors spread the word about bad wholesalers. I don't see it as bashing at all. If a wholesaler is doing things right, (s)he shouldn't take it as bashing either because the discussion won't apply to him/her.

    It's actually an education in what NOT to do. So it's helpful. Thanks for sharing your experience.

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
    11y

    Wholesalers are the worst.

    Just kidding. Some of us are the bee's knee's. @Account Closed 90% of the deals I wholesale are off of the MLS. The relationships I have with the listing agents I work with make the prices that I get impossible for the average buyer. There are agents I have closed 100+ deals with who call me first when they have a great listing, I also go 0 inspection and fat escrows on most great deals so it is also hard to compete. Sometimes you just have to get gangster with it for a great deal.

  • Wholesaler · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 227 posts · 93 votes
    11y

    I came here expecting to add some names to a list. I guess no one has started that list yet so I won't be adding any names just yet!

    What novice investors and "seminar" wholesalers don't realize is that you need to have a deep understanding of your market and what a truly good deal looks like before you can market a wholesale deal to other rehabbers. 

    What really makes me laugh are those that are truly scraping the bottom of the barrel, claiming to have 40 or so wholesale deals on their list weekly, blasting out addresses of MLS listed properties. A lot of them are still active and a lot of the time they are priced lower on the MLS than the wholesaler has it listed for. That lot are a real special bunch. They are like what comes out of the north end of a south bound bull.

  • Investor · Valdosta, GA · Member since 2015 · 187 posts · 112 votes
    11y

    @Justin Stamper

    You're an exception my friend. Which is why you've been so successful. The relationships built in any kind of business can propel you to the top. A lot of the wholesalers that send me emails don't seem to have those same connections. Otherwise they'd be offering properties/prices that no one else can get. That's why I put 'MLS "deals" (not)' in my first post. Any every day home buyer can do what those wholesalers are doing.

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
    11y

    @Nikki Robinson

    The only difference between the every day home buyer and the awful wholesaler is the every day home buyers POF is probably real!

    BAAZZZINGGA!

  • New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 173 posts · 33 votes
    11y

    ok I have nothing to add with the bad wholesalers but I do have a question....

    What does DFW mean? @Hattie Dizmond 

  • Investor · Valdosta, GA · Member since 2015 · 187 posts · 112 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Justin Stamper:

    @Nikki Robinson

    The only difference between the every day home buyer and the awful wholesaler is the every day home buyers POF is probably real!

    BAAZZZINGGA!

     LOL agreed

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 303 votes
    11y

    @Christopher Rodriguez

     it means Dallas/Fort Worth

  • New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 173 posts · 33 votes
    11y
  • Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
    11y

    @Justin Stamper

    How do you wholesale properties off the MLS?

  • Investor · DFW, TX · Member since 2013 · 319 posts · 101 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Michael G.:

    @Justin Stamper

    How do you wholesale properties off the MLS?

    Step 1. Get a great deal under contract.

    Step 2. Profit!

    As a buyer, I don't really care about the source of the transaction, if what I'm getting on my end is a good deal for me.

    Now, is it more likely for a wholesaler doing their own marketing to find a great deal? Sure! But the legwork of locking up an MLS property for a good price is also worth something. It saves me the hassle of calling up dozens of less than motivated sellers to find the one listed property I could buy at a discount myself.

    Provide value to all parties of your transaction, and you will reap the benefits!

    -D

  • Investor · DFW, TX · Member since 2013 · 319 posts · 101 votes
    11y
  • Wholesaler · Culver City, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 56 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nikki Robinson:

    The first thread I read in its entirety on BP was the "Truth about Wholesaling" sticky. This is pretty much the same warning.

    It's bad that so many people are bad wholesalers, but it gives me more faith in myself. Reason #1 is because I've had my phone ringing with seller leads every week since February. None of them are listed or have even spoken with an agent about selling yet.

    I'm still a newbie, but even I can tell that the newbie wholesalers who advertise MLS "deals" (not) are simply in this to get rich quick. And that means they're not going to last long because it's not how good wholesaling works.

    I appreciate when investors spread the word about bad wholesalers. I don't see it as bashing at all. If a wholesaler is doing things right, (s)he shouldn't take it as bashing either because the discussion won't apply to him/her.

    It's actually an education in what NOT to do. So it's helpful. Thanks for sharing your experience.

     Hey Nikki, I'm doing my research on BP on "bad wholesaler" forum posts. I even posted my own. And they all sounded the same. I think most of the investors that respond to these posts mean well. I think their delivery sucked...which is where I take issue. 

    Yes, they should call out the bad wholesalers; so that those of us that are fairly new to it can learn what not to do. They should choose words wisely, and don't condescend or insult someones intelligence because they think all wholesalers should be reprimanded.

  • Wholesaler · Culver City, CA · Member since 2015 · 185 posts · 56 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Michael G.:

    @Justin Stamper

    How do you wholesale properties off the MLS?

     Did you get an answer to this question? I'm trying to figure out how you can...because...uhh, as far as I know...you can't. No?

  • Wholesaler · Bay Shore, NY · Member since 2009 · 359 posts · 199 votes
    11y

    @Andy Cross

    No I never received an answer from @Justin Stamper

    I can only imagine he's getting pocket listings but he left out certain details. He never specified if he's buying these deals himself with his own cash and then reselling or flipping contracts. .

    He said he goes fat escrows which would allude to the idea that he's using his own money.

    I would think paying closing costs when buying these properties would eat up ones wholesaling fee but who knows.

    Funny you should bring this topic up

    A wholesaler contacted me the other day. He said he had a deal but when I queried him on the repair numbers and the ARV he was shaky at best.

    I do my do diligence and find out the the property is on the NLS for 20K less than his wholesale price.

    When I contacted him hours later and told him the property was on the MLS his response was "Really".

    He did admit he was new but I told him the best way to alienate your buyers is to bring them deals that they can find themselves on the MLS for a price less than what you are selling it for.

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