JIm although wholesaling is done on the west coast or in our markets its NOT nearly as prevelant as back east in the mid west and rust belt were you have an over abundance of homes and homes are basically bought sold and traded like auto's... same price points. the wholesalers I know in the PDX market buy at court house steps then resell.. so they own their inventory.. it happens here but its just not a high volume business for the most part @Chris Martin I closed on in Charleston in June and it was so funny.. the poor wholesaler was so twisted up... we were going to buy but he did not realize they owed more than it was worth.. so they do all this work .. without the benefit of checking title... they thought they were going to make 90k on it and I ended up giving them 6k and they were lucky they got anything... pretty comical really.

Wow, This post was exhausting and I was debating if I'd even respond, as the temperature of the conversation is condescending and argumentative which eliminates any chance of a resourceful conversation... Though, Against my better judgement, I will... First off, you can't judge every wholesaler by the ones you've encountered. I pride myself and my company on doing it the right way (i.e.. Informing the seller of my intent, sending contract to my closing Attorney immediately to pull title, water, solid waste, property taxes, outstanding liens, etc). Oh, and not to mention have made a descent amount of money as well. As with every profession, there are good and bad seeds. For example... I've dealt with some RE agents that didn't have a clue and would say/do anything for a commission. I've dealt with closing attorneys that made me wonder if they'd ever done a closing. I've met some Investors whose methods I felt were ass backwards. I've dealt with contractors that couldn't give an accurate SOW if their life depended on it. The list goes on. That being said, there are also many individuals in each of those realms, that I count on everyday that are my closest acquaintances and biggest assets in my "Wholesaling" business. It is true, when first starting out it is market one of the most attainable ways to get into the the REI field, which makes it appeal to the masses, and some do jump the gun. It's definitely HARD/Dirty work. But I challenge you to, instead of criticizing someone that may be green and trying to enter into this field that most of us love and enjoy, to take a second to point them in the right direction. I can assure you most would be appreciative and who knows, they may end up be one your biggest resources. BTW @John Thedford there are many fix and flippers, Buy and Holders, Property Managers, etc., that also wholesale. Are they also searching for an identity? Or just the ones that wholesale exclusively? Thanks @Carl Brown @Chris Piper Account Closed personally an can vouch for his professionalism and standards of how he operates his business! Thanks all and happy investing! Will G

@Jim Y. and anyone who made a frustrated comment regarding wholesalers. I surely cannot speak for other wholesalers, but I most certainly can speak for myself and VCA Properties LLC. First off, wholesaling is something that should be highly respected in this industry because of all the hard work that goes into what I do like, marketing for good or great deals, negotiating with all types of seller, contracts, site visits etc. VCA has a proven track record for being extremely professional, licensed, scrupulous, transparent and ethical. My buyers always walk away happy because we think like flippers. We totally understand the many different end strategies investors have to contemplate when pulling the trigger on a deal. My advice to the frustrated ones, is to reach out to more and more wholesalers until you find one like me. Or, you could simply spend thousands of dollars and endless hours finding great deals for yourself, than you can do whatever it is you wish to do without dealing with anyone but yourself. I know there are a bunch of crappy wholesalers out there that are not ethical or even licensed, throwing deal after deal against the wall hoping one sticks, but hey the same goes for crappy, greedy, unethical flippers and investors. I could write a book on all the BS that I've dealt with regarding so called flippers, but I'm way too cool for that. :^)) Anywho, I hope you guys find those great and wonderful deals that you desire and remember, ROCKSTAR wholesale companies like VCA are out here you just have to look harder or go find your own deals! Happy investing!

Ok best of luck.... you may have to create your own bird dogs.... we recruit them you feed them you train them you give them some gas money and maybe they scare up some deals. I had 6 of those working for me pre equity skimming laws that were implemented in OR and WA.. we door knocked every NOD in our 5 county metro area here in PDX.. sent them out in teams of two boy girl.. the girls in this case were way smarter than the boys .. the boys were there mainly to keep the girl safe.

@Trey BrooksAccount Closed I been thinking about this stuff when I was driving to Costco only to find out it was closed today :) The main issue at least for me who is someone who has been licensed since 1975.. and got licenses in states I needed them over the years.. IE Oregon Mississippi etc. It really boils down to selling RE without a licesne and disguising it as some kind of equitable interest etc etc.. now we know some states are cracking down, Like Ohio FLA CA and others. But it dawned on me when I started my career in 1975.. I specialized in land that was dog tough to sell.... and the market was tough then.... Just like most wholesalers are specializing in tough to sell hoarder houses or houses that need a bunch of rehab.. or low price points were charging a customary RE brokerage commission just makes it a non starter I totally get that and agree with that no one wants to make 6% of a 20k deal. So for me it was the same... a lot of my land listing took a year or more to sell. were 10 to 50 miles back into the national forest north of San Fran and it was half a day to show it.. there was no way I could make money charging a normal commission. and one thing that we must remember commissions are negotiable.. So my commissions went from a minimum of 15% to 25% were they higher than the 10% of the day for sure.. Did I get the job done YOU BET I would encourage sellers to try the other agents and after a year come to me.. I would get them more for the property and get paid at the same time.. with these low value assets I do see realtors charging a fixed fee 2k to 2500 is common even on a 10k deal.. I also looked back to 2004 when I had the Jay Hinrichs team and was doing fly buy program with SF bay area investors flying to Oregon to buy income properties. There was one developer of duplex's that the locals were having a hard time selling.. I negotiated a 12% commission on 300k sale prices.. Explaining to the developer I will sell them and probably net them more than 6% just sitting on MLS. I spent 55K of my own money for one weekend presentation where I had 100 investors come to listen to me present Portland income property. and I sold all 22 duplex's in that one weekend.. and made 36k a piece in commissions paid to me on the HUD just like any other real estate broker. would make I paid my team members out of that.. and still made about 500k on that deal by spending 55k up front and being the Real Estate professional I am or think I am . So as I brainstorm here is there a way you guys could run your wholesale business by being brokers like the buys I work with in Orlando.. and on these hard to sell homes that really can only be sold to investors because they are not financeable ( ore the majority are not) if you just took a flat fee listing say you want to make 10k a deal.. you simply get a listing agreement that calls for 10k instead of a % and its up to the seller if they want to accept the offer.. you need not do any of this .. contract stuff tying it up.. double escrow all that... would this not be workable.. Since your saying your 100% transparent to the seller and they know your going to make money and not buy the asset your self. ???? what do you think.. or do you think?? Also do each and every seller know EXACTLY how much you make on each deal.. are you that transparent.. or would you be worried that the sellers would think your making too much and balk. Could be a new twist on wholesaling or for that matter selling real estate legally... I know you can't take net listings but commissions as stated are negotiable.. down ( like we see in our uber hot expensive markets) and UP in markets like yours that have beat up houses that need cash buyers etc.

FYI. Good wholesalers help each other out because we both have different buyers with different tastes. Carl Brown brought me a buyer from Canada for a property I was marketing in Orlando. And the closing went smoothly. So the good ones do help each other.

John Thedford it's because you are in every forum under every post being negative. Nobody wants to hear your negativity and damn you have a lot of time on your hands to respond to every wholesaling post. Go drink a v8 or something.

What wholesalers?

Wholesaling

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What wholesalers?

Jim Y.

Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes

Where are all these wholesalers with all these deals? I've been contacted by several wholesalers, but when I ask for deals, crickets chirp. Sounds like big talk, no action.

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Chris Martin

Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

They haven't finished the course yet. Marketing and hype are in the first half, along with web sites, etc. The second half is pitching and negotiating. Then they have to 'buy up' with the upsell seminar to get to the point of actually having a property under contract. ;)

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Chris Martin
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
They haven't finished the course yet. Marketing and hype are in the first half, along with web sites, etc. The second half is pitching and negotiating. Then they have to 'buy up' with the upsell seminar to get to the point of actually having a property under contract. ;)
7 Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
JIm although wholesaling is done on the west coast or in our markets its NOT nearly as prevelant as back east in the mid west and rust belt were you have an over abundance of homes and homes are basically bought sold and traded like auto's... same price points.
the wholesalers I know in the PDX market buy at court house steps then resell.. so they own their inventory.. it happens here but its just not a high volume business for the most part
@Chris Martin I closed on in Charleston in June and it was so funny.. the poor wholesaler was so twisted up... we were going to buy but he did not realize they owed more than it was worth.. so they do all this work .. without the benefit of checking title... they thought they were going to make 90k on it and I ended up giving them 6k and they were lucky they got anything... pretty comical really.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
also Jim just for grins not sure you want PDX but go on Bulldogs website they are wholesalers
also there is veristone and east side funding in your neck of the woods that has foreclosure bidding services were they also provide you the HML when you win at auction pretty slick how they have it set up.. although be cautious I see people they rep buy deals that I know will not make any money the only one is the bidding service and the lender..
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Chris Martin
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
@Jay Hinrichs LOL! I've had a few experiences like that. A few years back, a recent make-a-billion-in-your-spare-time graduate dude was pimping a pre-foreclosure, not knowing there was a second and a mechanic's lien... and believing what the seller fed him. I had already seen the file. It was entertaining.
The 'wholesalers' in the Wake county NC area (the few there are that I've interfaced with,) for the most part, are clueless. Central NC is like PDX in that there isn't much 'wholesale' business. At one point, I thought about doing what I've heard people call 'wholetail', which is like your PDX example of buying at foreclosure auction... then we add small markups (and possible financing) before selling to rehabbers ... then the hedge funds came in and made semi-retirement a much more rational idea.
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Jim Y.
OP
Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes
10y
Jay Hinrichs I buy cash, so working with a wholesale/HML outfit doesn't work for me. They lose interest as soon as they find out they'll lose interest if you know what I mean. My approach to working with wholesalers is that they would do the legwork of finding off-market deals, which to me justifies paying them their markup. Auction isn't really off-market either. Shoot me a PM.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
Ok best of luck.... you may have to create your own bird dogs.... we recruit them you feed them you train them you give them some gas money and maybe they scare up some deals.
I had 6 of those working for me pre equity skimming laws that were implemented in OR and WA.. we door knocked every NOD in our 5 county metro area here in PDX..
sent them out in teams of two boy girl.. the girls in this case were way smarter than the boys .. the boys were there mainly to keep the girl safe.
Podcast Guest on Show #222
JLH Capital Partners51 Review
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5 Reply
Chris Martin
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
@Jim Y. the painful solution is to train them to find what you want. I say painful because the task can become a big effort and the average 'wholesaler' seems to have about a 30 second attention span. And when you get someone good, they pimp for your competition. It's tough to win, IMO. I keep it arms-length and try to devote as little time to developing their business as I can. Provide specifics (more property detail the better... but that's no guarantee) and hope they function... at least that's my experience on the east coast.
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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Jim Y.
If you DO entertain any deal with a "wholesaler" I suggest
1. make them show you the contract to prove they have any interest
2. have them provide comps that you can check'
3. NEVER pay any non-refundable fee.
4. ask for their license and insurance
5. if they give rehab estimates make them provide WRITTEN bids from licensed contractors
To date I have not found one legitimate one. I am not saying they don't exist, but they are much more scarce than a deal on SW FL real estate:)
BTW--if you want some grins go to the "wholesaling" forum and read the threads. I had two guys contact me from BP with a "deal". I cannot say how bad it was. Purchase was around 60K. They claimed 40K rehab and 160 ARV. WHO would sell off a deal like that with 60K profit on a 100k deal? It was such a good deal they could not find a fool to buy it. Agents get sued for misrepresentation of value. These "wholesalers" are not accountable to anyone and most will do anything for a buck. Don't confuse them with flippers that actually own the property. Two different animals.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes
10y
Attention everybody! I am real deal wholesaler in Orlando and I have over 50 real off-market wholesale deals all over central Florida. I have access to funding for these deals and a complete turnkey operation if you need it.
I also have 25 Chicago IL small Multifamily (below 50 units) with seller financing and also a complete turnkey operations offered.
0 Reply
Jim Y.
OP
Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes
10y
John Thedford I guess what I thought wholesalers are and what they really are, are different things. I assumed if you found a property, off-market, and entered into contract with the owner for a price below ARV, your contract would have value as it represented a property of value. If you are trying to sell that contract, why all the smoke and mirrors? The contract protects your interests. I would be willing to pay a premium above selling price for that contract if it was indeed a deal. That premium is a reflection of time and money I save not going door-to-door, cold calling, mailers, etc. I'm beginning to realize what the majority of wholesalers peddle aren't deals in the first place. I guess the next deal will be all that sweeter for me when I find it :)
0 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Jim Y.
We all want an identity. There are TONS of new people what want to play in the real estate realm, and "wholesaler" has no barrier to entry. No money. No education. No license....POOF...you are a "wholesaler". If these people would spend some time learning about RE and the different avenues available to them that WOULD make them some money they would stand a much better chance of success. Very few people started with a lot of money, etc. RE takes time and dedication to reap the rewards. 99% of these new "wholesalers" will never make a dime in the realm. Unfortunately, they have been fed all the fast buck no license no education no money garbage. It sounds great...if it were only true.
1 Reply
Chris Martin
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Regarding "If these people would spend some time learning about RE and the different avenues available to them that WOULD make them some money they would stand a much better chance of success." Yup. They would become brokers (licensed) and make money...
0 Reply
Carl Brown
Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2016 · 131 posts · 84 votes
10y
@Jim Y. and anyone who made a frustrated comment regarding wholesalers. I surely cannot speak for other wholesalers, but I most certainly can speak for myself and VCA Properties LLC. First off, wholesaling is something that should be highly respected in this industry because of all the hard work that goes into what I do like, marketing for good or great deals, negotiating with all types of seller, contracts, site visits etc. VCA has a proven track record for being extremely professional, licensed, scrupulous, transparent and ethical. My buyers always walk away happy because we think like flippers. We totally understand the many different end strategies investors have to contemplate when pulling the trigger on a deal. My advice to the frustrated ones, is to reach out to more and more wholesalers until you find one like me. Or, you could simply spend thousands of dollars and endless hours finding great deals for yourself, than you can do whatever it is you wish to do without dealing with anyone but yourself. I know there are a bunch of crappy wholesalers out there that are not ethical or even licensed, throwing deal after deal against the wall hoping one sticks, but hey the same goes for crappy, greedy, unethical flippers and investors. I could write a book on all the BS that I've dealt with regarding so called flippers, but I'm way too cool for that. :^)) Anywho, I hope you guys find those great and wonderful deals that you desire and remember, ROCKSTAR wholesale companies like VCA are out here you just have to look harder or go find your own deals! Happy investing!
5 Reply
Jim Y.
OP
Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes
10y
Carl Brown I agree with you. I wish I could find some like you to work with. If you have any colleagues in WA, I'd love a recommendation.
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed
That was tongue in cheek. Of course, they don't have any! As to the post from carl brown, he states "wholesaling should be highly respected, etc" when in fact he mentions EXACTLY what agents do. Marketing, negotiating, contracts, site visits, etc are part of an agents duties involved in real estate. He would make us believe that what he claims is someone special. It is not. Every time they make an argument about how "valuable' their services are they identify what agents do! Pretty much 100% of the time they NEVER debunk my posts with facts:)
0 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
Here is another thread with a "wholesaler" suggesting lies and deceit in contracts.
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/93/topics/350...
0 Reply
Chris Piper
Wholesaler · Mishawaka, IN · Member since 2013 · 438 posts · 346 votes
10y
@John Thedford I'll give you the fact that 99% of wholesalers are garbage, and do not have any trained skills. They do however provide a service which is similar but different to an agent. First, an agent can never get you as good of a deal as a good wholesaler can. Why not? Because agents only deal with MLS listed properties. Wholesalers deal with motivated off market properties with sellers who NEED to get rid of their property and will accept much less than a property listed in the MLS.
Also, depending on what area of the country you live in, becoming an agent will be much more work for a fraction of the money compared to being a wholesaler. In my city, you can make $2,400 on an average sale as a realtor, or you can make $5,000-$10,000 or more per wholesale deal. So why would someone want to waste their time going through all that training to become a realtor to make a fraction of the money you can make as a wholesaler? They wouldn't.
0 Reply
Account Closed
Vendor · Ashburn, VA · Member since 2014 · 72 posts · 37 votes
10y
I work as a marketing arm for wholesalers all over the country. There are some great ones. About 99% of my calls are from the ones that have no clue. Some of my best clients actually run REIA's and even they say a large majority of the wholesalers are wandering aimlessly. If you find a good wholesaler ... Keep him. I work my wholesale by getting the deal hard money loan approved and having an actual bid from a contractor. That is a good sign someone put the work in to package a deal for a Rehabber.
0 Reply
Carl Brown
Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2016 · 131 posts · 84 votes
10y
@Account Closed
4 Reply
Carl Brown
Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2016 · 131 posts · 84 votes
10y
Actually, i'm far from upset. I simply am one to speak up for my profession and how VCA operates. I intended to speak directly to john thedford who mentioned my name. It's understood that a large majority of wholesalers are afraid to be honest about thy're intentions regarding assigning the contracts. Honesty is easy and clean, it gives the seller confidence that they made a good decision to work with you. Sean Terry teaches exactly that. Happy investing!!
0 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Account Closed
I certainly agree. Please note the attacks from this clown calling me "unscrupulous" etc. Must have hit a nerve!
0 Reply
Ruth Bayang
Investor · Kent, WA · Member since 2015 · 624 posts · 274 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Jim Y.:

Where are all these wholesalers with all these deals? I've been contacted by several wholesalers, but when I ask for deals, crickets chirp. Sounds like big talk, no action.
Keep networking Jim. And you can buy from Hard Money outfits and not use their financing. There are many wholesalers out there but only two (so far) who get my repeat business.
0 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
If you want to see the real carl brown check out this post:
https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/wholesale...
I have printed it out. Will send it to my attorney tomorrow.
0 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
Here is his comment copied and pasted:
CARL BROWN on
Sweet info Marcus! Keep up the great work, we really need more tips and tricks to keep unscrupulous real estate agents like john thedford from trying to shoot us down every chance they get. I love the word DEBUNKED! lol awesome!!
0 Reply
Jim Y.
OP
Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes
10y
Ruth Bayang I'd love a recommendation.
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