JIm although wholesaling is done on the west coast or in our markets its NOT nearly as prevelant as back east in the mid west and rust belt were you have an over abundance of homes and homes are basically bought sold and traded like auto's... same price points. the wholesalers I know in the PDX market buy at court house steps then resell.. so they own their inventory.. it happens here but its just not a high volume business for the most part @Chris Martin I closed on in Charleston in June and it was so funny.. the poor wholesaler was so twisted up... we were going to buy but he did not realize they owed more than it was worth.. so they do all this work .. without the benefit of checking title... they thought they were going to make 90k on it and I ended up giving them 6k and they were lucky they got anything... pretty comical really.

Wow, This post was exhausting and I was debating if I'd even respond, as the temperature of the conversation is condescending and argumentative which eliminates any chance of a resourceful conversation... Though, Against my better judgement, I will... First off, you can't judge every wholesaler by the ones you've encountered. I pride myself and my company on doing it the right way (i.e.. Informing the seller of my intent, sending contract to my closing Attorney immediately to pull title, water, solid waste, property taxes, outstanding liens, etc). Oh, and not to mention have made a descent amount of money as well. As with every profession, there are good and bad seeds. For example... I've dealt with some RE agents that didn't have a clue and would say/do anything for a commission. I've dealt with closing attorneys that made me wonder if they'd ever done a closing. I've met some Investors whose methods I felt were ass backwards. I've dealt with contractors that couldn't give an accurate SOW if their life depended on it. The list goes on. That being said, there are also many individuals in each of those realms, that I count on everyday that are my closest acquaintances and biggest assets in my "Wholesaling" business. It is true, when first starting out it is market one of the most attainable ways to get into the the REI field, which makes it appeal to the masses, and some do jump the gun. It's definitely HARD/Dirty work. But I challenge you to, instead of criticizing someone that may be green and trying to enter into this field that most of us love and enjoy, to take a second to point them in the right direction. I can assure you most would be appreciative and who knows, they may end up be one your biggest resources. BTW @John Thedford there are many fix and flippers, Buy and Holders, Property Managers, etc., that also wholesale. Are they also searching for an identity? Or just the ones that wholesale exclusively? Thanks @Carl Brown @Chris Piper Account Closed personally an can vouch for his professionalism and standards of how he operates his business! Thanks all and happy investing! Will G

@Jim Y. and anyone who made a frustrated comment regarding wholesalers. I surely cannot speak for other wholesalers, but I most certainly can speak for myself and VCA Properties LLC. First off, wholesaling is something that should be highly respected in this industry because of all the hard work that goes into what I do like, marketing for good or great deals, negotiating with all types of seller, contracts, site visits etc. VCA has a proven track record for being extremely professional, licensed, scrupulous, transparent and ethical. My buyers always walk away happy because we think like flippers. We totally understand the many different end strategies investors have to contemplate when pulling the trigger on a deal. My advice to the frustrated ones, is to reach out to more and more wholesalers until you find one like me. Or, you could simply spend thousands of dollars and endless hours finding great deals for yourself, than you can do whatever it is you wish to do without dealing with anyone but yourself. I know there are a bunch of crappy wholesalers out there that are not ethical or even licensed, throwing deal after deal against the wall hoping one sticks, but hey the same goes for crappy, greedy, unethical flippers and investors. I could write a book on all the BS that I've dealt with regarding so called flippers, but I'm way too cool for that. :^)) Anywho, I hope you guys find those great and wonderful deals that you desire and remember, ROCKSTAR wholesale companies like VCA are out here you just have to look harder or go find your own deals! Happy investing!

Ok best of luck.... you may have to create your own bird dogs.... we recruit them you feed them you train them you give them some gas money and maybe they scare up some deals. I had 6 of those working for me pre equity skimming laws that were implemented in OR and WA.. we door knocked every NOD in our 5 county metro area here in PDX.. sent them out in teams of two boy girl.. the girls in this case were way smarter than the boys .. the boys were there mainly to keep the girl safe.

@Trey BrooksAccount Closed I been thinking about this stuff when I was driving to Costco only to find out it was closed today :) The main issue at least for me who is someone who has been licensed since 1975.. and got licenses in states I needed them over the years.. IE Oregon Mississippi etc. It really boils down to selling RE without a licesne and disguising it as some kind of equitable interest etc etc.. now we know some states are cracking down, Like Ohio FLA CA and others. But it dawned on me when I started my career in 1975.. I specialized in land that was dog tough to sell.... and the market was tough then.... Just like most wholesalers are specializing in tough to sell hoarder houses or houses that need a bunch of rehab.. or low price points were charging a customary RE brokerage commission just makes it a non starter I totally get that and agree with that no one wants to make 6% of a 20k deal. So for me it was the same... a lot of my land listing took a year or more to sell. were 10 to 50 miles back into the national forest north of San Fran and it was half a day to show it.. there was no way I could make money charging a normal commission. and one thing that we must remember commissions are negotiable.. So my commissions went from a minimum of 15% to 25% were they higher than the 10% of the day for sure.. Did I get the job done YOU BET I would encourage sellers to try the other agents and after a year come to me.. I would get them more for the property and get paid at the same time.. with these low value assets I do see realtors charging a fixed fee 2k to 2500 is common even on a 10k deal.. I also looked back to 2004 when I had the Jay Hinrichs team and was doing fly buy program with SF bay area investors flying to Oregon to buy income properties. There was one developer of duplex's that the locals were having a hard time selling.. I negotiated a 12% commission on 300k sale prices.. Explaining to the developer I will sell them and probably net them more than 6% just sitting on MLS. I spent 55K of my own money for one weekend presentation where I had 100 investors come to listen to me present Portland income property. and I sold all 22 duplex's in that one weekend.. and made 36k a piece in commissions paid to me on the HUD just like any other real estate broker. would make I paid my team members out of that.. and still made about 500k on that deal by spending 55k up front and being the Real Estate professional I am or think I am . So as I brainstorm here is there a way you guys could run your wholesale business by being brokers like the buys I work with in Orlando.. and on these hard to sell homes that really can only be sold to investors because they are not financeable ( ore the majority are not) if you just took a flat fee listing say you want to make 10k a deal.. you simply get a listing agreement that calls for 10k instead of a % and its up to the seller if they want to accept the offer.. you need not do any of this .. contract stuff tying it up.. double escrow all that... would this not be workable.. Since your saying your 100% transparent to the seller and they know your going to make money and not buy the asset your self. ???? what do you think.. or do you think?? Also do each and every seller know EXACTLY how much you make on each deal.. are you that transparent.. or would you be worried that the sellers would think your making too much and balk. Could be a new twist on wholesaling or for that matter selling real estate legally... I know you can't take net listings but commissions as stated are negotiable.. down ( like we see in our uber hot expensive markets) and UP in markets like yours that have beat up houses that need cash buyers etc.

FYI. Good wholesalers help each other out because we both have different buyers with different tastes. Carl Brown brought me a buyer from Canada for a property I was marketing in Orlando. And the closing went smoothly. So the good ones do help each other.

John Thedford it's because you are in every forum under every post being negative. Nobody wants to hear your negativity and damn you have a lot of time on your hands to respond to every wholesaling post. Go drink a v8 or something.

What wholesalers?

Wholesaling

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What wholesalers?

Jim Y.

Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 55 votes

Where are all these wholesalers with all these deals? I've been contacted by several wholesalers, but when I ask for deals, crickets chirp. Sounds like big talk, no action.

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Chris Martin

Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

10y

They haven't finished the course yet. Marketing and hype are in the first half, along with web sites, etc. The second half is pitching and negotiating. Then they have to 'buy up' with the upsell seminar to get to the point of actually having a property under contract. ;)

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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Jay Hinrichs
it appears he has no license if you are referring to carl brown. Here is the link:https://www.grec.state.ga.us/clsweb/realestate.aspx
it appears VCA properties was just registered in July 2016. He is not the RA and I didnt find any way to look at officers or directors. Did he state he is a licensee?
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Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2016 · 155 posts · 57 votes
10y
@Jay Hinrichs thanks for the heads up. That was my dilemma. As I currently use a barrel grill and a smoker. Usually when the grill gets lit, friends and family randomly show up! So yes, I'll definitely need the space!
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Carl Brown
Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2016 · 131 posts · 84 votes
10y
@Jay Hinrichs I think that's awesome for a creative licensed realtor if they are unsure whether or not they can sell a property. I however, NEVER put a contract in unless I know with certain that I can sell it. However, I personally don't mind putting EM in escrow to "lock down a property" Whatever the seller agrees on whether it be $10 or $1,000. As long as the seller has full disclosure and understand that I will make a profit for selling their property I don't see a reason to rewrite the book. Now, when wholesaling commercial properties like apartment complexes, shopping plazas, hotels etc. That method will not work. I get a fee agreement with the seller that allows me to be paid on both sides which is also understood and accepted by the sellers. It really boils down to "trust", if a seller believes that you can perform as stated by the contract in a timely manner than no harm no foul. I rely on my attorneys to ok or deny any action regarding my business and I encourage other wholesalers to do the same on every deal. It just makes life easier to know that you are doing everything right.
Cheers!
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
It appears we have a fraud and scammer operating as an unlicensed broker.
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Shonna Thomas
Flipper/Rehabber · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 8 votes
10y
Hi All:
As wholesalers the only License you NEED is your Driver License or State ID so you can cash your check. It is a science to wholesaling. NO your numbers! This is in fact a business. You need to understand how to structure your contracts. Do good business and people will keep coming back and they will send you referrals. It's really a good feeling to help all parties out. Happy Investing! Shonna Thomas
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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Shonna Thomas
The only license you need to drive is a DL. That doesn't make it legal to go 110mph in a 35mph. Many of these guys are operating illegally, violating state laws, and just as bad or worse, deceiving sellers with standard lies such as "subject to my partners approval, 60 day inspections" when in fact these frauds have no partner and have no intention of closing. Knowing numbers is one thing. Operating legally and honestly is another. Some of these clowns get mad when I state a few facts:
1. no license
2. no insurance
3. no education
4. usually no recourse for a buyer..no state agency oversight
5. bogues ARV estimates are common
6. most are operating like a broker but without a license
So...what true value do they bring? What DO they do that a licensed agent doesn't do?
When I posed that question, one of these clowns could only respond by libel and defamation of character. They could not make any rational and honest response to the question. As I have stated, I take posts at face value. This clowns responses certainly show his true self, his level of education, and his integrity. I am contacting the company he claims he works for, my attorney, and GREC today. I will go out of my way for some people, and this man is one of them!
GREC forms: http://www.grec.state.ga.us/PDFS/RealEstate/GRECRequestForInvestigation.pdf
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Sean Cole
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
Regarding "If these people would spend some time learning about RE and the different avenues available to them that WOULD make them some money they would stand a much better chance of success." Yup. They would become brokers (licensed) and make money...
I'm a real estate agent and a full time wholesaler. My RE license is held by a broker who charges me $3000 a year and I keep 100% of the commissions I generate. Why would I take the brain damage if that's available? Traditional brokerages are folding all over the place here - that's not where the money is at anymore.

My real estate commissions are enough to put me in the top 10% of agents in the country, but it's nothing compared to what the wholesaling business generates for me.
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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Sean Cole
OK..you got the education. I am sure you know what it takes to stay legal, have an understanding of contracts, etc. Most of these others don't and you can find more frauds and scammers on BP promoting dishonest, illegal, and unethical behavior. Just search the forums. I believe in this particular thread you can find at least one post from a clown stating his method of operation. It certainly appears to be unlicensed brokering. I am referring this man to GREC and let them decide. Do you subscribe to the lies and deceit of "subject to my partners approval" or the 60 day "inspection period" BS...AKA weasel clauses? If you cannot assign do you close on all of them? How long is your inspection period? That "top 10" claim is pretty impressive.
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Sean Cole
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
10y
@John Thedford while Top 10% sounds impressive, it's not once you learn what that number really is - Pareto Principle and all... It's more an indictment of real estate agents in general that I sit there. The barriers to entry for a real estate agent are only very slightly higher than being a wholesaler. I've worked with tons of awful agents and many great ones.

I don't play games with contracts. My minimum EMD is $1,000 and that's usually for a house I'm buying for under $30k. Anything over that and I'm at $2,000 and sometimes have to put 10% up for some of our bank deals. So, yeah, I know I'm not a typical wholesaler scraping $50 together for EMD when sometimes I have $25k or more on the line. One of my first posts on BP was to ask if we should have a different term for pros instead of newbies because it gets old putting the flamesuit on to hop on BP and try to help other folks out.

There's lots of wholesalers out there that need an education. There's plenty of "investors" that do, too.
1 Reply
Shonna Thomas
Flipper/Rehabber · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 8 votes
10y
To All:
Wholesaling is a great way to do real estate deals! The ONLY license you need to do these type of Deals is your Driver License and or State ID. If a person chose to do bad business wholesaling, they have to pay for that. Notwithstanding, a Driver that has a Driver License and breaks the law by driving 110mph in a 35mph, he/she has to pay for their illegal driving, that does not make all drivers, driving illegal. Again, no your numbers! Structure your contracts. Create Win-Win for all parties, if you do this people will continue to do business with you. I enjoy real estate and sharing with Others! Happy Investing!
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Shonna Thomas
and a "wholesaler" or someone calling themself that doesn't make them necessarily legal! Are you licensed? Do you have insurance? What qualifications do you have (if any). Have you had any real estate education (besides the wholesaling threads on BP)? Just curious!
See my thread titled Properties For Sale Are NOT Comps. He doesn't have a license either...except maybe a driver license!
0 Reply
Shonna Thomas
Flipper/Rehabber · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 8 votes
10y
Hi All:
Wholesalers will continue to grow and help the community of real estate!
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
@Shonna Thomas
You failed to answer a single question. I guess the education, licensing, and insurance don't exist. Can you say "brokering real estate without a license"? At least you supposedly have a drivers license LOL! You can put "licensed driver' on your business card for qualifications and educational experience!
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Kareem Thomas
Flipper/Rehabber · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2009 · 17 posts · 18 votes
10y
John Thedford it's because you are in every forum under every post being negative. Nobody wants to hear your negativity and damn you have a lot of time on your hands to respond to every wholesaling post. Go drink a v8 or something.
2 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
I gave you a vote cause I know new guys sometimes need a hand up!
If you care to dispute anything I have written with FACTS, not malarky, please do so. I learn something new every day. And yes, I post quite a bit in a LOT of forums. I do my best to be a positive contribution to the site but don't condone illegal or unethical tactics often promoted by these frauds and scammers. If you intend to take up wholesaling all you need is a driver license!
And the REAL reason they don't respond is? Could it be no education, no license, no insurance? I chuckle at the ones stating they are an integral part of the puzzle all the while doing what agents do...but without the license. Nobody NEEDS wholesalers.
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Kareem Thomas
Flipper/Rehabber · Bethlehem, PA · Member since 2009 · 17 posts · 18 votes
10y
@johnthedford I don't care what you're talking about and it doesn't matter to me at all, I don't need your vote or hand up. Nothing you say bothers me but you're very annoying. All day you put people down and talk alot of irrelevant stuff that we don't care about. Nobody has to prove anything to you, show you anything or answer any of your questions because you're irrelevant. I'm new to this site but not new to the business and wholesalers are very useful, not our fault you're a grumpy man that sees negativity in everything. I'm just tired of seeing you in every single thread with the same bull crap. You picked the right person because I will definitely put you in your place because once again you're a nobody to me. Now have a good day and keep on with your hating!
1 Reply
John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
You are going to put me in my place??? LOL! There is an ignore feature on BP if you don't like my posts. Now, make sure you have a driver license! That is certainly the sign of a "professional"! LOL
I am helping a victim of a fraud wholesaler file a complaint with DBPR this weekend. Always glad to help people that get hurt by scammers!
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y
@Shonna Thomas your information is not exactly accurate and much to my surprise and dismay it turns out in Wisconsin you MUST be a licensed agent or use a license agent even to sell your own property... now if you guys never come into title and are just assigning that would not matter..
but when we watch the video from Ohio state regulators.. what I see with most wholesalers frankly. ( and of course I don't give a rip) is they are selling RE without a license.. they are NOT selling contracts.. their websites show the houses talk about bed and bath rehab etc.. just like an agent.
But no matter until the state regulators start to really enforce the licensing rules its a free for all.
And I stand by my earlier statement that a wholesaler GENERALLY if they want to get to the top will at some point realize they need a license. I have funded deals were there was johnny lunch bucket wholesaler and then with some of my high volume guys they are fed deals by wholesalers that are licensed and those are the one's that I see doing volume. Again just from my little world here.
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Chris Martin
Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Sean Cole:

Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

Regarding "If these people would spend some time learning about RE and the different avenues available to them that WOULD make them some money they would stand a much better chance of success." Yup. They would become brokers (licensed) and make money...
I'm a real estate agent and a full time wholesaler. My RE license is held by a broker who charges me $3000 a year and I keep 100% of the commissions I generate. Why would I take the brain damage if that's available? Traditional brokerages are folding all over the place here - that's not where the money is at anymore.

My real estate commissions are enough to put me in the top 10% of agents in the country, but it's nothing compared to what the wholesaling business generates for me.
You are making my point. You took the effort to educate yourself by becoming a licensed broker. I, too, took the RE licensing class (in 2002) but per the company attorney, I was instructed to NOT take the final because my focus was for company acquisitions, not general public brokerage. A RE license was perceived as a liability, not the knowledge or educational aspect of being a broker.
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Sean Cole
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

Originally posted by @Sean Cole:
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
Regarding "If these people would spend some time learning about RE and the different avenues available to them that WOULD make them some money they would stand a much better chance of success." Yup. They would become brokers (licensed) and make money...
I'm a real estate agent and a full time wholesaler. My RE license is held by a broker who charges me $3000 a year and I keep 100% of the commissions I generate. Why would I take the brain damage if that's available? Traditional brokerages are folding all over the place here - that's not where the money is at anymore.

My real estate commissions are enough to put me in the top 10% of agents in the country, but it's nothing compared to what the wholesaling business generates for me.
You are making my point. You took the effort to educate yourself by becoming a licensed broker. I, too, took the RE licensing class (in 2002) but per the company attorney, I was instructed to NOT take the final because my focus was for company acquisitions, not general public brokerage. A RE license was perceived as a liability, not the knowledge or educational aspect of being a broker.
Not exactly. I was wholesaling for 2 years prior to becoming a licensed real estate agent. I haven't done additional deals since I became licensed (my annual volume is essentially flat). The difference is that my income has increased because I can now represent myself when I buy off the MLS. Candidly, the licensing classes here in Ohio aren't very helpful when it comes to actually being in the business. Sure you'll learn the laws regarding discrimination, etc., but you aren't taught a lick about running a real estate career (negotiations, contracts, prospecting, etc.).

Perhaps there's also a difference occurring here because of language - in Ohio, a licensed real estate salesperson is not called a broker. A broker in Ohio is the owner/manager/responsible party for a group of licensed salespeople.
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