How to work with realtors?
Bell , CA · Member since 2009 · 33 posts · 0 votes
I've read that you should always have a realtor as part of your dream team. How can a realtor assist you? How much commision should you pay a realtor?
And manage your expectations property - meaning most realtors just don't get it. I know it may not make sense - heck - it doesn't make sense.
As someone here on BP said once if you find a good Realtor consider an informal marriage - they are that rare.
Not saying you can't find them but don't be afraid to play the field to find the one to marry.
Plus pay them - pay them well and often and don't ask for deals.
Ryan, we will just have to agree to disagree. Rules are rules. If I do not like them I will complain about them, work to change them, but still obey them. To me, breaking rules are wrong. To you, it is different.
I do not think you can truly compare the founding of our country to you not being able to get access to the MLS. The founding fathers were upset about taxation without representation, among other things. If you paid for the MLS and were denied access then I could understand your position.
Mark, I would be okay with paying for it (I've tried). Some realtor associations do let investors buy read only access but my local association does not, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.
My comparison was merely in response to you questioning an investor's integrity because they don't follow the Association of Realtor's rules.
No one ever guaranteed the founding fathers taxation WITH representation. They made that idea up. They alone decided that it was not okay even though the current rules and customs were set up contrary to their beliefs.
My point is just because an organization decides on a rule does not mean it's right or that I'm going to respect or follow it, and I don't think that calls my integrity into question. If a realtor willingly gives me their MLS access when I ask then I do not think I have sacrificed my reputation in any way.
Steve, your MLS is different than mine. You set up appointments here by calling the listing agent, and access to the actual property is with a "super" key. I do absolutely understand the liability under your situation, and I don't discredit that. Obviously there is a varying level of trust depending on the structure of the MLS, and if a realtor is not comfortable with that I understand.
My goal as an investor would be to find a realtor that is.
Ryan, no matter how you explain it or justify it, you are not supposed to have access to the MLS if you are not a member. Trespassing is going somewhere you are not supposed to. When you use someone else's MLS access, you are trespassing.
For example: I am not a member of the health club. Is it OK if I use the facility because a member told me how to sneak in? Is the health club wrong to only let paying members use the facility?
Is a movie theater wrong for withholding the information that is within the movies they are showing? Is it wrong for a movie theater to only show movies to the people that pay to keep this movie theater open? Is it OK if I sneak in the back door? If I do not recognize this theater's authority to control the release of the information in the movies to only paying customers, then why should I pay?
Steve brings up a very good point about access to property.
Ummm, guys.... The MLS is on-line, open to the public in many locations.
It is a modified mls, but does include photos, asking price, square footage, lot size, often the age of the building, views, what town it is in, and a description of the best features.
You can sit at home, pick out a few that look promising, and then call either your agent or the listing agent to make arrangements to see it and get more information.
The seller has a contract and you should not be able to go around the listing agent, so it doesn't hurt you to call the agent for info. You don't need things like the security system code. Usually, if you ask, the agent will tell you how long it has been listed, and if you look like a sincere buyer, they will often run some quick comps for you.
If MLS isn't on-line, then every real estate agency will have a website and many of them have photos and information about their own listings.
I don't think Ryan is asking for access without being a "member". He says he's willing to become a member. He's willing to pay. He's denied being a member because he doesn't have a license. The analogy with a health club is flawed, because, with a few exceptions, Ryan COULD become a member of any health club. The only way to gain MLS access is to become an agent and get a "job" with a broker.
Twenty years ago access to stock exchanges and stock information was tightly controlled by stock brokers. Now its readily available to anyone and commissions have plummeted.
Ten years ago access to travel information was tightly controlled by travel agents. Now its readily available to anyone and travel agents are a rarity.
I predict that regardless of the attempts to control this information by real estate agent organizations (i.e., NAR) and local boards, its only a matter of time before property information is as easily available as these other examples, with much the same effect on the keepers of the keys. Stock brokers have found other ways to make money. Travel agents have been less successful. I wonder which way the real estate agent industry will go.
Jon, if Ryan is willing to become a member then that means he is willing to meet the requirements. He is willing to pay, but not accept the other requirements. He found the method that works for him, trespassing.
All health clubs will have some sort of requirements to become a member: Pay the dues and be of legal age for liability purposes. Sure a kid can use the facility after their legal guardian signs a waiver. But there are requirements none the less.
It is easy to meet the requirements to join a MLS. Sadly it is easier to complain. Or find a member without the backbone to say "no that is wrong".
As P NW said, the information is available in most areas. Or you can find it from other sources.
We can argue forever about this. But I will not change your minds or anyone change mine. Just let this be one of those things that we agree to disagree on. I pay and abide by the rules and just feel that if I can do this, then anyone else that uses the MLS should also.
It seems the main difference, Steve, between the MLS and the health club analogy, is that the MLS's product (information) is being artificially controlled. Just like the stock information, and the travel information. I'm a law-abiding guy myself, but I'm not afraid to color outside the lines on occasion if a group of people are giving themselves an unfair advantage at my expense. It's called leveling the playing field. If the field was aritficially uneven in the first place, that is wrong. I understand what you're saying, but I can't say that I entirely agree.
This has been a really good thread.
Three things I would to point out. Been a while since I said anything on this thread.
1) The ethics issue - It's like the old moral problem from college philosophy and psychology classes ( can't remember the name) would you steal medicine to give to a sick child. Might not be that extreme, LOL, but the premise is the same.
On a side note I know a way around this. It gets the investor what they want and complies with the mls rules. PM if you want to know, don't really want to talk about it on a public forum.
2) The mls is available on other sources. True. In Colorado the mls is available on www.recolorado.com This is the public front of the mls that they control. One big factor is that it is not the same. The information is not as detailed. The search functionality is much more limited. When I find the actual property I'm missing it's listing history etc. So while it can help you out I would still want/demand more information.
3) Jon Holdman's point about the Realtor going away. I should write a blog on that point. I truly don't think that will happen to be the case. Ironically the government almost always keeps us in business. The contract is long, semi complicated, and generally changes every six months. The governement by trying to protect consumers has made the process so complicated that we have guaranteed ourselves a job. The percentage of homes that is sold without an agent has actually gone down over the years. (Since the mid 90's, dawn of the Internet).
It is also true that commission is being pressured down; Internet, alternate business models, REO and short sales. I really don't see agents going away. Property is so unique, each one is different, that people need an expert.
My $.02 (The bank will probably try to cut that too.)