Full time wholesalers
Flipper/Rehabber · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2019 · 30 posts · 53 votes
Full time wholesalers
Most Popular Reply
Wholesaler · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2015 · 216 posts · 146 votes
7yI tend to scroll through BP when I’m laying my son down but rarely post. This discussion spurred me to make a rare exception.
Wholesaleing is not illegal or at least not in Texas. I’ve closed 8 deals in 2017, 21 in 2018, and 9 so far this year. Why only 9, because I’ve graduated to the next stage and involved in 2 flips. Wholesaleing has been and always will be my baseline to find deals for whatever strategy I want to pursue ( rehabs, rentals, owner finance, etc).
On to the seller side of things. Most of these properties need a ton of work and most agents won’t touch them without a cleanup and work done to them that costs money that the seller doesn’t have. They are distressed and need someone with knowledge to help them. That’s where I come in and I am compensated well for it.
EVERY one of my sellers have said thank you when it’s all said and done with many testimonials.
Heck I can confidently say I know more about the market as a wholesaler than probably 90% of the realtors in my markets. How??? Because I talk to 20-30 sellers per month and run mls based comps and submit offers to almost all the sellers I talk to. Why would I want to settle for 3% commission with the knowledge I have and the time and energy I spend helping the seller? There is nothing wrong with getting paid well for knowledge and your time.
The key thing I will say is to know what your doing and don’t lock up the property if your not confident you have a buyer for it at the contracted price. That just gets the sellers hopes up and they come crashing down when you back out. No one deserves to be treated like that. At a minimum pay a reasonable earnest money deposit fee if you do need to back out as that’s doing the right thing which I have done on the very few properties I was unable to close on.
Anyway just my thoughts.
216 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
@Michael Ealy Great information!
And where is the moderation in this thread? You have people calling others scabs and others advocating for cutting people out of deals while at the same time boasting about being ethical. This is as degenerated as I've ever seen a thread on here.
I guess the powers that be of Bigger Pockets are unethical, why even have a wholesaling sub-forum if it's so unethical?
Apparently if you are a guest on the podcast like James and Jay you can say whatever you want, whether it be a false/defamatory claims or talking down to others and name calling (against BP rules BTW). These guys aren't lawyers and they frequent threads about wholesaling to throw false legal claims into the mix and claim that all wholesalers act illegally and dishonestly. This is not what BiggerPockets is made for and there are rules in place to prevent it.
@Brandon Turner @Joshua D. @Mindy Jensen I know y'all moderate everyone else, but where is the moderation for these podcast guests that are being reported? These guys get reported, nothing happens, and they continue to try to kill threads, make false/defamatory accusations toward an entire sub market of the industry, and confuse beginners that come to this website for help.
A response to this type of behavior would be helpful instead of ignoring reports on these guys and letting these threads devolve into name calling and confusion.
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
- Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
2 common themes behind the "it's legal" argument seem to be to attack the people who say it's illegal because they're licensed OR assume it's legal because other people are doing it. People conduct business differently so I don't know if what any individual is doing is legal or not.
A common theme behind the "it's illegal" argument is to cite the state laws.
The "is it legal, is it not legal" debate rages on. My 2 cents - read the laws in your state and figure out on your own if what you're doing is practicing without a license or not. Or figure it out with a real estate lawyer if you don't understand the laws. Don't get legal advice from an online forum.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
I have pasted this e mail I got from OUR state department of real estate its pretty clear and they are the LAW.. when they open an investigation you will then get a lawyer to defend yourself.. this person is now licensed just like your licensed.. Keep in mind attorneys are paid to argue a position and it happens often with state regulators end of the day they are the ones ( regulators that lay down the final law) unless one wants to spend 100k in administrative law court appealing . So again instead of getting all the opinions from the peanut gallery and as it realtes to a state I work in Oregon I sent in a copy of a direct e mail marketing piece and asked for a ruling this is what I got back
Hello Jay,
Thank you for getting back to me. The advertising copy you attached to your email came out perfectly and will be very helpful. Thanks!
The Agency is well aware that unlicensed “wholesalers” are rampant in our jurisdiction. Addressing the problems is like trying to put out small individual fires in a forest that is burning. The Agency’s investigations are complaint driven, so we rely heavily on the public, and our licensees to bring these individuals to our attention.
Thank you again for the information, if I have further questions for you during the investigation I will certainly reach out.
Best regards,
Frances Hlawatsch | Financial Investigator
State of Oregon - Real Estate Agency
Now if someone wants to argue with the state financial investigator of course its your right to do that.. and every state it appears is different there is only so much man power to go around.. in Oregon with only 4 mil people they are more apt to move on these things..
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
funded hundreds of them does not make it legal though just like title companies they could care less if someone is breaking the real estate brokerage laws have you ever been asked by a title company to send in a copy of your license or your brokers license before they would pay you ?>? I think the answer to that is NOPE they don't care. LOL>. and I have more than a handful of my team that got hammered in different states that uses me so they don't advertise properties they don't own..
Question for you why are U licensed since you don't need one to wholesale in TExas it appears or that Texas does not enforce the real estate brokerage requirements .. ???
- Realtor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2017 · 541 posts · 442 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
I don't understand how it seems like every post like this seems to degenerate to name calling ("scabs" whatever that is, doesn't sound nice) and that the thread is typically derailed. If wholesaling, or buying and then immediately reselling properties, was not ethical, why would Bigger Pockets have an entire sub-forum dedicated to it? Maybe your beef should be with them to remove it?
Also, I didn't like the idea that if someone had a property under contract that you were interested in that you would just try to cut them out and go directly to the seller. That's shady in my opinion. Especially if that person has a contract that they are capable of closing and plan on closing.
I like @Michael Ealy's taken on it personally, that closely mirrors how I feel about it. The grey area stuff I would advice people to just speak with a real estate attorney.
Back up offers happen all the time.. we have a field for it on our MLS that says bumpable.. and knowledgeable agents would never let their seller get into contract with a buyer who's sole purpose is to sell the contract and if they cant they cant close and will walk. I mean when the wholesaler is taught the 50 ways to get out of a contract and the seller is a civilian just leads to a lot of confusion and frankly some damage.
Hey Jay,
Back-up offers on the MLS are one thing, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about going to a seller that is already under contract off market. Maybe it's ok, if you approach and say hey I just want to put a back-up offer in case your current offer falls through. Depending on what you say though, like if you say "Hey, you're under contract for $140k? Ok I'll pay you $145k" you may be walking the line of tortious interference of a contract
Again, we are talking about if someone has legitimate means and intent to cash close a property, not talking about people tying the property up just to assign with no intent of closing.
I know a wholesaler that closes properties all the time. When he buys in Sun City though he gets hit with about $4000 in capital improvement fees every time he closes, so in those instances he assigns. So just because someone is assigning a contract does not mean they do not intend to close. If the sellers absolutely refuse to let him assign it then he just closes it, no big deal.
- Realtor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2017 · 541 posts · 442 votes7y
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
Ironically I'm doing my CE right now and it says right there, do not presume to give legal, accounting, insurance, etc. advice, refer to them to a professional!
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
I don't understand how it seems like every post like this seems to degenerate to name calling ("scabs" whatever that is, doesn't sound nice) and that the thread is typically derailed. If wholesaling, or buying and then immediately reselling properties, was not ethical, why would Bigger Pockets have an entire sub-forum dedicated to it? Maybe your beef should be with them to remove it?
Also, I didn't like the idea that if someone had a property under contract that you were interested in that you would just try to cut them out and go directly to the seller. That's shady in my opinion. Especially if that person has a contract that they are capable of closing and plan on closing.
I like @Michael Ealy's taken on it personally, that closely mirrors how I feel about it. The grey area stuff I would advice people to just speak with a real estate attorney.
Back up offers happen all the time.. we have a field for it on our MLS that says bumpable.. and knowledgeable agents would never let their seller get into contract with a buyer who's sole purpose is to sell the contract and if they cant they cant close and will walk. I mean when the wholesaler is taught the 50 ways to get out of a contract and the seller is a civilian just leads to a lot of confusion and frankly some damage.
Hey Jay,
Back-up offers on the MLS are one thing, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about going to a seller that is already under contract off market. Maybe it's ok, if you approach and say hey I just want to put a back-up offer in case your current offer falls through. Depending on what you say though, like if you say "Hey, you're under contract for $140k? Ok I'll pay you $145k" you may be walking the line of tortious interference of a contract
Again, we are talking about if someone has legitimate means and intent to cash close a property, not talking about people tying the property up just to assign with no intent of closing.
I know a wholesaler that closes properties all the time. When he buys in Sun City though he gets hit with about $4000 in capital improvement fees every time he closes, so in those instances he assigns. So just because someone is assigning a contract does not mean they do not intend to close. If the sellers absolutely refuse to let him assign it then he just closes it, no big deal.
i have never stated to create a tortious interference of contract.. I just said back up offer.. back up offers happen all the time.. I do them often .. so if the first one or two don't close we move into first position.. not quite as common these days as things have slowed down in the markets I work.. My wife has done them for first time home buyers who really wanted THAT house and are willing to wait in case the first one sale failed for some reason.. and you know sales do fail.. when bidding on Auction dot com many times we are second bidder and more than a few times a year someone from their office calls and says hey do you still want it for that price.. we are not that active on auction dot com. these days and Emily our go to person has moved on so its not as fun as it used to be.
- Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
In the interest of making sure accurate information gets out there, how about telling everyone you also work at New Western, which means you have more than a passing interest in this wholeseling debate?
I think that could bias you a bit, don't you?
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
Ironically I'm doing my CE right now and it says right there, do not presume to give legal, accounting, insurance, etc. advice, refer to them to a professional!
One thing that is cool with the State of Oregon for all the licensed agents there is a legal hot line for free that you call with these kind of questions and an attorney in the department of real estate responds.. but again legal opinions as we know are argued all the time that's why you have two sides of a court room :) Right .. ?
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Bill F.:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
In the interest of making sure accurate information gets out there, how about telling everyone you also work at New Western,which means you have a dog in this proverbial wholeseling fight?
I think that could bias you a bit, don't you?
Good Catch Bill that does answer that question.. but even New Western those guys are all licensed.. so not sure what the rub is.. when I was funding Armando Montalongo students purchases in Orlando they got most of their off market deals from a brokerage called Altura those guys were all licensed.. Did a few hundred of those.. but I can say if one of my folks has a deal from NW or the other big Texas one out there I wont fund it.. been on the wrong side of a few of those transactions..
- Investor · Miami · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 7 votes7y
Over and over again we can see that the same story goes when it comes to wholesaling and that the same people are trying to prove that it is an illegal business.
We've had guests on the podcast who are definitely making money doing wholesaling, and who said that they have over 400k monthly revenue from this business. So to say that only gurus make money is definitely not true.
What I can notice is that 2019 is the new 2006, we are at the peak of the real estate market and that every not educated person wants to enter the business because they think it is an easy way to make money, which is not true at all. When we enter the real recession next year or 2021, all of them will disappear from the market and only those with integrity and education will remain.
So my advice to the author of this thread would be to do business with the goal of helping the seller and fixing the problem rather than exploiting the bad situation. Only to deal if it is win win for all parties.
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
funded hundreds of them does not make it legal though just like title companies they could care less if someone is breaking the real estate brokerage laws have you ever been asked by a title company to send in a copy of your license or your brokers license before they would pay you ?>? I think the answer to that is NOPE they don't care. LOL>. and I have more than a handful of my team that got hammered in different states that uses me so they don't advertise properties they don't own..
Question for you why are U licensed since you don't need one to wholesale in TExas it appears or that Texas does not enforce the real estate brokerage requirements .. ???
Thank you for acknowledging that in certain states it is legal to wholesale without a license and that wholesaling in general is not illegal. Now that we have that cleared up...for the third time...as a very experience broker with years of experience and knowledge would you advise anyone to listen to another broker giving legal tips or advice - whether that be in a forum or in real life?
This thread is not about me, but to answer your question I got my license for MLS access and to broker real estate. In Texas, there are legal ways to wholesale without one but I got mine because I wanted to.
It's honestly sad that you are trying this hard to poke holes in everyone's comments about wholesaling and talk this bad about it despite doing business with wholesalers. It goes against what this site was built for.
- Realtor · Tempe, AZ · Member since 2017 · 541 posts · 442 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Dustin P.:
I don't understand how it seems like every post like this seems to degenerate to name calling ("scabs" whatever that is, doesn't sound nice) and that the thread is typically derailed. If wholesaling, or buying and then immediately reselling properties, was not ethical, why would Bigger Pockets have an entire sub-forum dedicated to it? Maybe your beef should be with them to remove it?
Also, I didn't like the idea that if someone had a property under contract that you were interested in that you would just try to cut them out and go directly to the seller. That's shady in my opinion. Especially if that person has a contract that they are capable of closing and plan on closing.
I like @Michael Ealy's taken on it personally, that closely mirrors how I feel about it. The grey area stuff I would advice people to just speak with a real estate attorney.
Back up offers happen all the time.. we have a field for it on our MLS that says bumpable.. and knowledgeable agents would never let their seller get into contract with a buyer who's sole purpose is to sell the contract and if they cant they cant close and will walk. I mean when the wholesaler is taught the 50 ways to get out of a contract and the seller is a civilian just leads to a lot of confusion and frankly some damage.
Hey Jay,
Back-up offers on the MLS are one thing, but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about going to a seller that is already under contract off market. Maybe it's ok, if you approach and say hey I just want to put a back-up offer in case your current offer falls through. Depending on what you say though, like if you say "Hey, you're under contract for $140k? Ok I'll pay you $145k" you may be walking the line of tortious interference of a contract
Again, we are talking about if someone has legitimate means and intent to cash close a property, not talking about people tying the property up just to assign with no intent of closing.
I know a wholesaler that closes properties all the time. When he buys in Sun City though he gets hit with about $4000 in capital improvement fees every time he closes, so in those instances he assigns. So just because someone is assigning a contract does not mean they do not intend to close. If the sellers absolutely refuse to let him assign it then he just closes it, no big deal.
i have never stated to create a tortious interference of contract.. I just said back up offer.. back up offers happen all the time.. I do them often .. so if the first one or two don't close we move into first position.. not quite as common these days as things have slowed down in the markets I work.. My wife has done them for first time home buyers who really wanted THAT house and are willing to wait in case the first one sale failed for some reason.. and you know sales do fail.. when bidding on Auction dot com many times we are second bidder and more than a few times a year someone from their office calls and says hey do you still want it for that price.. we are not that active on auction dot com. these days and Emily our go to person has moved on so its not as fun as it used to be.
Oh definitely, I put back-up offers in on the MLS all the time. Rarely is my offer the first one accepted, usually it falls out 2 or 3 times beforehand. But I don't think that's what James was talking about, he was talking about circumventing the person altogether and trying to back door the deal.
I agree, if laws were black and white and easy then there would be no lawyers. So if the Arizona statues say that no licensed person can receive a fee from a real estate transaction, just like it says you cannot drive 51 mph in a 50 mph zone, I'm willing to bet that there are nuances to that law. But again, I would just ask a real estate attorney if I'm an unlicensed person trying to buy and then resell properties.
Or just get your license. More access to deals, access to comps, networking with other agents, the ability to list the property if they don't want to sell it cash, etc.
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
Originally posted by @Bill F.:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
In the interest of making sure accurate information gets out there, how about telling everyone you also work at New Western, which means you have more than a passing interest in this wholeseling debate?
I think that could bias you a bit, don't you?
If you don't think that everyone has some sort of bias, you are mistaken. If people were talking bad about rental property investors in general and saying you act illegally, you would have a bias there and hopefully the confidence to defend your profession.
Yes, I am a licensed agent and wholesaler like most people in this thread. I work at New Western and my office sells around 75 deals a month to happy and mostly repeat investors. Anything wrong with that?
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
funded hundreds of them does not make it legal though just like title companies they could care less if someone is breaking the real estate brokerage laws have you ever been asked by a title company to send in a copy of your license or your brokers license before they would pay you ?>? I think the answer to that is NOPE they don't care. LOL>. and I have more than a handful of my team that got hammered in different states that uses me so they don't advertise properties they don't own..
Question for you why are U licensed since you don't need one to wholesale in TExas it appears or that Texas does not enforce the real estate brokerage requirements .. ???
Thank you for acknowledging that in certain states it is legal to wholesale without a license and that wholesaling in general is not illegal. Now that we have that cleared up...for the third time...as a very experience broker with years of experience and knowledge would you advise anyone to listen to another broker giving legal tips or advice - whether that be in a forum or in real life?
This thread is not about me, but to answer your question I got my license for MLS access and to broker real estate. In Texas, there are legal ways to wholesale without one but I got mine because I wanted to.
It's honestly sad that you are trying this hard to poke holes in everyone's comments about wholesaling and talk this bad about it despite doing business with wholesalers. It goes against what this site was built for.
One thing is certain no one has defined wholesaling.. what I know to be true at least in the states I operate in which is 12 that to market a home you do not own requires a license and a listing.. simple as that. not sure her name but there is a homevestors franchise owner from the Carolinas and she is the first to say the definition of wholesaling is to BUY and CLOSE then resell.. she also says assignments no good or marketing properties you don't own not the proper way to do it..
Bp is here for spirited debate like we are having.. not to just be RA RA RA I mean seriously I have 37 THOUSAND up votes so some people agree with my thought process.. I think the bigger issue is those that think wholesaling or assigning contracts is a money machine the only and for some it is.. but just like being a licensed agent and we know this as fact since I have owned 4 brokerages over the last 4 decades 20% of agents make 80% of the revenue.. I believe in the wholesaling realm as the gurus teach and what is promulgated on this site . the wipe out factor is hirer.. so my advice usually is to get a license because more people will list than will wholesale.. wholesaling pigeon holes you to work with distressed assets and investors. tough group.. my wife sells between 10 and 15 million a year as one of the top agents in our market its all retail homeowners.. maybe one investment transaction a year.. There was one post about a wholesaler just north of New Orleans talking about his 6 months of marketing and blowing 20k on direct mail only to hand over 6 or 7 listings to their friend the agent.. which they receive no compensation you don't see them on this site anymore..
And this site does a good job allowing dissenting positions. Just think about all the people that this site saved from Clayton Morris and I was as frank on that guy as anyone ever to the point I was sure he was going to sue me for slander..LOL
- Real Estate Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 543 posts · 474 votes7y
@Damarius Gilbert well, I am an investor and not a broker/agent and I am not a fan of unlicensed wholesalers - so not EVERYONE who has an issue with them is. My exposure to unlicensed wholesalers has been negative. To licensed agents wholesaling a property, positive.
- Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
@Jay Hinrichs I don't get the verve and passion for defending the model when he is licensed either, but there are lots of things I don't and never will understand lol.
It appears on the surface to prove your point that you can wholesale to your hearts content with a RE license, but I've put enough brain cells into this debate for the year.
I find these threads filled with motivated reasoning/moving the goals post and nearly always devolve into tribes with name call or tattling to the mods by one or both sides. This one is no exception.
More power to you for engaging with him, the badgering to answer his straw-man questions and not so low key derisive comments about you; you have the patience of a saint.
@Austin Smither Langley When did I assert that I thought people were without bias? That's right I didn't. Please, lets stop with the rhetorical slight of hand, it's getting old and gets in the way of civil discourse.
I asked if you thought that you working for a wholesaler could bias your feeling on wholesaling in general, ie prohibit you from seeing the merits and nuances of other side's argument.
When someone speaks ill of rental property investors, which happens from time to time, I bear in mind that the rental space is filled with nuance and realize that all broad brush comments can apply to some aspects of the space and not others at the same time. I then compare the point of view which was put forth to what I know to be true, analyze it on its merits and either discount it because it is not based in veritable facts or I update my outlook of reality/opinion if I have learned something from this new point of view that I didn't know before. I don't try to be right, I try to seek out the truth.
To answer your question, No, I would not blindly defend rental property investing simply because I too happen to have rentals. I know I have biases and actively try to limit their impact on my decisions.
I'm unsure what you specifically are asking is wrong: the fact that you are an agent, you wholesale, you work at New Western, your office sells 75 homes/month, you sell to happy and mostly repeat customers (that's a bit redundant, I wouldn't imagine unhappy customers to be repeat customers in a space with no low switching costs), or all of those facts in totality?
To answer your question I'd have to first know how you define wholesaling.
- Specialist · El Paso, TX · Member since 2016 · 105 posts · 84 votes7y
@Mark S. Perfect business opportunity for you. A profile picture would be nice for our peers.
- Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2018 · 65 posts · 49 votes7y
If you read through this entire thread you can see that I'm not trying to to defend any model. I'm responding to false legal statements and attempting to stop the confusion that they cause for new members - they are who I'm standing up for here. There was no debate here until people came in saying it's wholesaling is illegal...I'm just trying to stay positive and provide accurate information here for beginners.
@Jay Hinrichs you have previously defined wholesaling to me and others as illegal, but you are correct that there are many ways to do it and it's not well defined (at least in legal terms in some states). You are also correct that being an agent and/or wholesaling is not for everyone. Not every occupation is a good fit for everyone and not everyone's experience is the same, but that doesn't mean we should discourage people from learning about them on this site like you did to me when I was getting my license and you told me that wholesaling is illegal in any state. Just my two cents for what it's worth.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 24 votes7y
@Matt Hatton
Hay it’s funny we’re talking about wholesaling. Bigger pockets business podcast just posted a podcast on a big wholesaler Max Maxwell. So if wholesaling is illegal bigger pockets is promoting us doing it.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Austin Smither Langley:
It's interesting to see brokers like @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise boasting about how they are so successful and how they do everything right while talking down to others when someone is just looking for some help. No one should trust any broker that attempts to give legal advice for any state, much less the entire USA, and talks badly about an entire segment of the industry.
The two people mentioned above are commonly found trolling on threads about wholesaling with the pure intention of talking bad about it as if every wholesaler is acting illegally and dishonestly...so take what they say with that grain of salt.
@Matt Hatton to answer your question I would connect and align with individuals or teams with a track record of success wholesaling properties (if that's what you want to do) and learn the pros and cons of how they do it. Thousands of people legally wholesale every day in
the USA.
I never boasted how successful I am or am not. .actually I lost about 10 million in the 08 to 2011 and I write about it.. real estate crashed I had 40 million of it LOL.. wrong place wrong time.. Also I have not sold real estate at the consumer level in over 20 years the reason I keep my CA license is to simply make referrals fee's very occasionally and to Broker HML loans.. the subject was just the legality of doing it . its not legal the way those that advertise properties they don't own do it.. simple as that.. whether the states want to follow up that's up to them.. that's my only point.. Also I think like many things real estate related its a hot button because of the allure of easy money quickly.. can it happen sure some will do it.. can those that have licenses make big bucks sure but not all by any means depends on where your living and the price points of the real estate..
I have no turf to protect just commenting on the laws of the land that's all.. and I never boast or at least I don't think I have about how much money I make or don't make.. other than my unfortunate set back during the GFC and being to heavy into real estate.. I freely admit it..
But now today is a new day and things are looking up.. !! at least for now..
Jay can you address what I said instead of trying to defend yourself? The subject of this thread was not the legality of wholesaling and not real estate brokerage. It was to give tips to someone interested in wholesaling.
Would you advise to anyone on this site to take legal advice for the entire USA from anyone that is not a lawyer?
your the one who called me out . so just answered that acusation.. I don't advise
ANYONE talk to any lawyer about is a license needed or not.. I would only talk to the state department of real estate.. lawyers like to argue LOL
Well, you and James consistently call out wholesalers in general for acting illegally based on US law and acting dishonestly so it seems somewhat justified to respond to make sure accurate information gets out there.
Once again, would you advise anyone to take US legal advice from a broker? If not, then stop claiming the wholesaling in general is illegal because that's just not true. You have funded deals that came from wholesalers so it's a bit hypocritical.
I see you are in Texas. I posted information taken directly from the TREC website. What information could you possibly have that is more accurate than information copied directly from the TREC website?
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