The truth about Lists

The truth about Lists

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

All, allow me to be blunt and straight to the point (and in your face) for a sec...

I see so many of you following others blindly (please don't do that). It is time to start thinking and use your own logic.

I will start this effort with "lists".

Imagine I have a room filled with people. Now as (bad) luck may have it, NONE of these people want to sell their house (but you don't know that).

Now here comes the investor enters the room and says "Everyone over the age of 60 go to the right side of the room",...

and a bunch of people go to the right side.

Now , the investor says, everyone that is an absentee owner go to the right corner of the right side...

again a bunch of people go to the right corner on the right side of the room.

Now he says, anyone that has 90% equity stays in that corner and the rest go away...

Bunch of people go away.,

Brilliant!!

Now we have in the right corner a ton of people that are over 60 years old, are absentee owners and that have 90% equity!

How many people will sell their house to you?

FRIGGIN NONE!!

All the people in that room did NOT want to sell their house, remember?

Lists, filtering lists, and all that crap  DOES NOT INDUCE OR INCREASE MOTIVATION. You need to filter the population based on motivation. NOT the "probability" of someone to be motivated based on criteria that has NOTHING to do with motivation!

Just because someone is having a garage sale is there more probability he needs to sell their house? NO absolutely not!! There are way more people doing garage sales that do not want to sell vs people that do garage sales BECAUSE they need to sell, right? Well ok then.

Also, there are WAY more people that need to sell their house that are not doing garage sales then there are people that need to sell their house that are doing garage sales.

That "filter" absolutely makes little logical sense.

Awww... you did a garage sale list and you got deals? Congrats, we simply call that luck!

You are not improving your chances by filtering a list.

The ONLY way DMM works is if you send a crap ton of mailers BLINDLY! The more people you send the more chances you have., It is literally shooting in the dark.

I am not saying you can not make a deal using DMM.. but it based on luck, ZERO strategy.

The simple truth is that if you send a mailer to every single person in this country , sure of course someone will bite! this is simply because you reached everyone, both motivated and non motivated sellers. The motivated ones will respond. But they don't respond because you have a great system for filtering the list. They respond simply because you so happen to have reached them.

So people please make sure you turn on that sexy brain of yours and start thinking!

Yes there are exceptions to lists (like the inheritance list etc. etc.. and I am not talking about those lists.). I am talking to lists in general, and doing lists because Joe Shmoe over there told you to do so, because a podcast on BiggerPockets told you so or because you see 97% of the people doing so.

Ask yourself this. How many of you do DMM? 

90%? OK...

How many investors fail?

About 90%?

Not sure about you, but from my math it is evident that obviously what ever strategies (DMM/lists) they are using... ARE NOT WORKING!!

Now let's analyze, collect data and base conclusions and actions on this solid data and crush your market, without having to rely on luck or chaotic randomness!

Now realize this:

For every investor that responds to this post saying that their DMM is working fantastic, there are about 400 investors, these strategies did not work for them but remain quiet!

1Reply
21 views

Most Popular Reply

Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
6y

@Jerryll Noorden I fear the day when people start getting their rectal cranial removals and following your advise in mass, will totally wreck my business, nothing I love more than a stack of worthless post cards hitting a person, getting them into considering selling, they grab there phone, google and, well, long story short we have a good laugh looking over those post cards as they are signing paperwork with me. 

And for any who think that's just snark, I sh#t you not that happens all the time, I just took 2 property package yesterday exactly that way, exactly yesterday. They talked to the post card guy, got an offer, and they did what 99% of people do, I got connected and now it's my deal. I love mailers and those who send them.

Have I ever done mailers, hell yes, I did thousands upon thousands, once upon a time. Know what else used to work, mullets! Pagers! Hammer pants!!!! 

See this reply in the discussion

21 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Davie, FL · Member since 2019 · 92 posts · 53 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden great post and I agree totally with your assessment of lists. I am no guru in the wholesale world but what I have experienced so far is what you have written above. All my lists that I have filtered out so perfectly have gotten little to no interest. Yes, I have a property under contract right now that I got off one of those lists but I am chalking that up as "luck". It time to start thinking creatively and stop taking the easy way out. Thanks for motivation! 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Barone:

    @Jerryll Noorden great post and I agree totally with your assessment of lists. I am no guru in the wholesale world but what I have experienced so far is what you have written above. All my lists that I have filtered out so perfectly have gotten little to no interest. Yes, I have a property under contract right now that I got off one of those lists but I am chalking that up as "luck". It time to start thinking creatively and stop taking the easy way out. Thanks for motivation! 

     If this post could help just one person then that is enough. Thanks for reading and talking it with an open mind.

    Indeed, I got my first deal from DMM too... and yes it was luck for me too!

    Now I get leads like clockwork on demand without sending a single mailer.

    May the force be with you my dude!

    And congrats on that property under contract. Are you flipping it?

  • Investor · Davie, FL · Member since 2019 · 92 posts · 53 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden i have a buy and hold investor that I am assigning to. I need the cash to reinvest in more marketing. Plus not enough spread to take on the risk Vs the amount of assignment fee I am collecting

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike Barone:

    @Jerryll Noorden i have a buy and hold investor that I am assigning to. I need the cash to reinvest in more marketing. Plus not enough spread to take on the risk Vs the amount of assignment fee I am collecting

     "I need the cash to reinvest in more marketing"

    I hope you know you will be extremely successful (in case you are not already) in this game!

    Love it!

  • Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 137 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden, I only recently came across one of your posts which lead to checking out your website for a bit. I appreciate the often fitting mild snark you build into your posts. I'm not at a point where I'm doing lead gen yet, but I appreciate the input you're providing. Also, some of the stuff you've gotten to do with robotics looks amazing.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

     Haaa Mister Chad. Nice to meet you man. Thank you for the compliments. 

    Let me tell you a secret.

    When I was a NASA scientist and some hot babe asked me what I did for a living .. I would go " yo mami I am a NASA robotics scientist".. and she goes "TAKE ME, Take me NOW!"

    Now I go .. Ohh I am a Real Estate Investor.....

    And she goes... "oh that's nice"..

    And I go.. "wait... that's it?"

    She goes...  "Move along little monkey".

    Sucks monkeybutt!

    Ohh well, I am making a lot more money now...

    :D

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden I fear the day when people start getting their rectal cranial removals and following your advise in mass, will totally wreck my business, nothing I love more than a stack of worthless post cards hitting a person, getting them into considering selling, they grab there phone, google and, well, long story short we have a good laugh looking over those post cards as they are signing paperwork with me. 

    And for any who think that's just snark, I sh#t you not that happens all the time, I just took 2 property package yesterday exactly that way, exactly yesterday. They talked to the post card guy, got an offer, and they did what 99% of people do, I got connected and now it's my deal. I love mailers and those who send them.

    Have I ever done mailers, hell yes, I did thousands upon thousands, once upon a time. Know what else used to work, mullets! Pagers! Hammer pants!!!! 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:

    @Jerryll Noorden I fear the day when people start getting their rectal cranial removals and following your advise in mass, will totally wreck my business, nothing I love more than a stack of worthless post cards hitting a person, getting them into considering selling, they grab there phone, google and, well, long story short we have a good laugh looking over those post cards as they are signing paperwork with me. 

    And for any who think that's just snark, I sh#t you not that happens all the time, I just took 2 property package yesterday exactly that way, exactly yesterday. They talked to the post card guy, got an offer, and they did what 99% of people do, I got connected and now it's my deal. I love mailers and those who send them.

    Have I ever done mailers, hell yes, I did thousands upon thousands, once upon a time. Know what else used to work, mullets! Pagers! Hammer pants!!!! 

     ha ha ha, man do you know how many phonecalls we get that start with "Hey I received your mailer in the mail.. how does it work?"

    Or "hey I got saw your sign on a telephone pole on 123 main st in Hartford... please tell me how it works".

    And I go "Yo cenyle old coop ... what the hell are you talking abou... OOOHHHHH MY MAAIIIIILER... yeah yeah.. My sign sure.. what did it say? Ohh never-mind.. yeah sure just give me your address...

    Yup, the more motivated the seller, the more they will turn to Google to check on things, and they find us (and you apparently.. good job my dude)!

    People don't believe me.. but I see you know more than anyone I speak the truth.

    Man I better shut up !!!

    I myself get tons of daily business from competitors that send mailers to unsuspecting little sellers.

    :D

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Escondido, CA · Member since 2018 · 268 posts · 137 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden, nice to meet you too. Maybe, I’ll be in a place to learn SEO sometime soon.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Jerryll Noorden, nice to meet you too. Maybe, I’ll be in a place to learn SEO sometime soon.

     Oh heck yes. Remember, SEO is just pure logic. No need to pay anyone to do it for you! Easy as 1, 2, 3

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

     That wasn't even close to a reasonable rebuttal. Thank you for giving everyone a better peek at the quality of your mind though, so they have that to consider along with what comes out of your flapping mouth. 

    Just an FYI for ya to take into consideration; 

    I would not be so gracious as Jerryll in saying only 90% fail, the data from my experiences are much closer to 98.9%. 

    Now, if you want to say someone is not "in" REI until they have done a deal, fine, but what do we then call everyone who is spending time, money and energy STRIVING to do deal #1? Are they just nothing?

    It IS a fact that most who start down the REI road will never complete deal #1, of those who do most will never complete deal #2, those who do most never survive to year 5. I myself started my first investing back in the collapse, 98% of those who were around then are GONE, I am "the old guard" and that's talking 2009 to now.... WTF. Name 1 other industry as old as real estate where "The Old Guard" has a whopping whole 10+ years in it?! That's due to fail rate being astronomical in REI.

    Personally I believe the sky high fail rate is for exactly as Jerryll mentioned, NOT using their own brain, they learned a "system" from who ever or what ever and that all they did, followed the directions but never understood why or how that worked. Then as the market shifts and changes as it ALWAYS does in real estate, there little a-b-c plan from so and so starts failing, so they spend more, go from 10K on mailers to 30K, 40K, 100K and it's just throwing good money after bad. 

    Myself, I had an advantage, I had a decade of running companies that were sales focused before getting into REI, for me I recognized how to "sell" and what was selling and it was never the damn post card. During the buyers market a post card was a means of informing for contact conveyance, not selling. Today is a seller market, so your contacting saying "hey, you can sell your home", yeah, duh, who doesn't know that genius it's only plastered everywhere 24-7, why not tell them something else new like water is wet or fire is hot....

    As for Jerryll's credentials, when I was talking to a person who is considered the #1 expert of online marketing and digital analysis, who is famously known as is his agency, and we were discussing things he specifically called out Jerryll as THE definition of how it should be done and perfection in performance, the bar by which all others are measured. And here he is, "the" pro of pro's, GIVING AWAY his how-to.... it's Warren Buffet handing out stock tips...... Get a clue and soak it up, that's my suggestion. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

     That wasn't even close to a reasonable rebuttal. Thank you for giving everyone a better peek at the quality of your mind though, so they have that to consider along with what comes out of your flapping mouth. 

    Just an FYI for ya to take into consideration; 

    I would not be so gracious as Jerryll in saying only 90% fail, the data from my experiences are much closer to 98.9%. 

    Now, if you want to say someone is not "in" REI until they have done a deal, fine, but what do we then call everyone who is spending time, money and energy STRIVING to do deal #1? Are they just nothing?

    It IS a fact that most who start down the REI road will never complete deal #1, of those who do most will never complete deal #2, those who do most never survive to year 5. I myself started my first investing back in the collapse, 98% of those who were around then are GONE, I am "the old guard" and that's talking 2009 to now.... WTF. Name 1 other industry as old as real estate where "The Old Guard" has a whopping whole 10+ years in it?! That's due to fail rate being astronomical in REI.

    Personally I believe the sky high fail rate is for exactly as Jerryll mentioned, NOT using their own brain, they learned a "system" from who ever or what ever and that all they did, followed the directions but never understood why or how that worked. Then as the market shifts and changes as it ALWAYS does in real estate, there little a-b-c plan from so and so starts failing, so they spend more, go from 10K on mailers to 30K, 40K, 100K and it's just throwing good money after bad. 

    Myself, I had an advantage, I had a decade of running companies that were sales focused before getting into REI, for me I recognized how to "sell" and what was selling and it was never the damn post card. During the buyers market a post card was a means of informing for contact conveyance, not selling. Today is a seller market, so your contacting saying "hey, you can sell your home", yeah, duh, who doesn't know that genius it's only plastered everywhere 24-7, why not tell them something else new like water is wet or fire is hot....

    As for Jerryll's credentials, when I was talking to a person who is considered the #1 expert of online marketing and digital analysis, who is famously known as is his agency, and we were discussing things he specifically called out Jerryll as THE definition of how it should be done and perfection in performance, the bar by which all others are measured. And here he is, "the" pro of pro's, GIVING AWAY his how-to.... it's Warren Buffet handing out stock tips...... Get a clue and soak it up, that's my suggestion. 

     Dude.. did anyone tell you that you rock? This truly humbled me. And if you know ANYTHING about me and my huge ego.. it is hard to humble me :D

    Do me a fav? Tell the guy that mentioned me it is truly appreciated. Thanks a bunch!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

     That wasn't even close to a reasonable rebuttal. Thank you for giving everyone a better peek at the quality of your mind though, so they have that to consider along with what comes out of your flapping mouth. 

    Just an FYI for ya to take into consideration; 

    I would not be so gracious as Jerryll in saying only 90% fail, the data from my experiences are much closer to 98.9%. 

    Now, if you want to say someone is not "in" REI until they have done a deal, fine, but what do we then call everyone who is spending time, money and energy STRIVING to do deal #1? Are they just nothing?

    It IS a fact that most who start down the REI road will never complete deal #1, of those who do most will never complete deal #2, those who do most never survive to year 5. I myself started my first investing back in the collapse, 98% of those who were around then are GONE, I am "the old guard" and that's talking 2009 to now.... WTF. Name 1 other industry as old as real estate where "The Old Guard" has a whopping whole 10+ years in it?! That's due to fail rate being astronomical in REI.

    Personally I believe the sky high fail rate is for exactly as Jerryll mentioned, NOT using their own brain, they learned a "system" from who ever or what ever and that all they did, followed the directions but never understood why or how that worked. Then as the market shifts and changes as it ALWAYS does in real estate, there little a-b-c plan from so and so starts failing, so they spend more, go from 10K on mailers to 30K, 40K, 100K and it's just throwing good money after bad. 

    Myself, I had an advantage, I had a decade of running companies that were sales focused before getting into REI, for me I recognized how to "sell" and what was selling and it was never the damn post card. During the buyers market a post card was a means of informing for contact conveyance, not selling. Today is a seller market, so your contacting saying "hey, you can sell your home", yeah, duh, who doesn't know that genius it's only plastered everywhere 24-7, why not tell them something else new like water is wet or fire is hot....

    As for Jerryll's credentials, when I was talking to a person who is considered the #1 expert of online marketing and digital analysis, who is famously known as is his agency, and we were discussing things he specifically called out Jerryll as THE definition of how it should be done and perfection in performance, the bar by which all others are measured. And here he is, "the" pro of pro's, GIVING AWAY his how-to.... it's Warren Buffet handing out stock tips...... Get a clue and soak it up, that's my suggestion. 

     This has been taken off the tracks ridiculously. I asked where do the stats come from, how was he defining "investors", and how failing is being defined. 

    Stats so far seem to be coming from anecdotal experience, which may not be wildly off base, but they are coming out of his ***, which he freely admits.

    Defining investors is subjective, but has been a mess. Everyone on BP? that's the definition? or yours? everyone spending time and energy looking for deals? 

    Mine is you become an investor when you acquire an asset that has an expectation of revenue generation. Success is if it actually increases your wealth. Failure is if you lose money. By including all the people who do not buy (with many of them having very good reasons for passing) in the fail category, you are not paying attention the second rule of Warren Buffett, who you brought up: "Don't lose money". 

    To sum it up again, and for the last time, because a word to the wise should have been sufficient, and we are well past it by now- I find it very hard to believe that of all the investors that own assets in REI, 98% or even 90% end up losing money, and I'd like to see statistics, rather than someones anecdotal impression.

    Most may never make that first deal, true. I've been criticizing BP for months for glossing over and flat out ********ting the realities of actually finding a viable deal, for the non-professional, retail investor. Not buying may be one of the wisest moves they can make if the alternative is a **** deal just to "get in the game", especially considering opportunity costs, and including them in the fail list involves warped logic. 

     OK Mister D.

    If you truly wanted to add to this topic you would have used different words and intonation. If you are going to challenge me the way you attempted you will have to face the consequences.

    You knew damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP. How why? Because I AM on FRIGGIN BP writing this message you  silly sausage!

    Secondly, what the actual numbers are (do I need to give the accuracy in 3 decimal digit? or does 2 suffice? is completely besides the point and you know this. 

    Look man... 

    There are so many people here desperately trying to make it. Fathers mothers, sons and daughters, all trying to better their lives and those of their loved ones. 

    They get bombard with crap messages like do THIS, no no do THAT, NO do DMM, do driving for dollars... and I sit here as I see these poor people get taken for a ride just because a group of lists and DMM service providers do their desperate best to convince society that sending 10000 post cards or hand written letters scribbled on crappy yellow paper and red ink somehow magically is the magic formula to success. Seriously?!

    And I sit here seeing year in year out how every single one of them are not getting anywhere.

    Dude I just replied to a 12 year old posts.. yes TWELVE YEAR OLD POST about lead generation and throughout that entire post of 12 years they are ALL still regurgitating UTTER crap.

    Look at this...

    1M in about 7 months may be pocket change to a lot of successful investors here. But to me it is something still. I do this using the EXACT same strategies I preach here on BP... mind you FOR FREE. I don't get paid to give out these golden nuggets!

    A HUGE petpeave I have here on BP is that everyone is a self-proclaimed expert and everyone dresses their opinions up as "facts" yet NO ONE provides back up, proof or evidence.

    I try to show people what they are doing is REfrigginTARDED. And they do not see or realize it because they friggin REFUSE to use logic, intelligence and common sense.

    When people see some stranger calling them out and telling them "you are doing it wrong" they go on the defensive, get insulted and retaliate instead of shutting the hell up, step back see the logic in the writings and admit.. wait a sec.. this monkey is annoying BUT he has a point, and LEARN change adapt.

    I would have happily entertained your reservations and concerns, but I suggest learn how to approach and express politely with respect like a human being and don't get your panties all twisted up when your unwarrented snarky responses get you a fiery answer back!

    Now that this is explained and behind us, we can start over.

    Yo man wazzaaaaap. My name is monkey it is nice to meet you.

    Ohh I see you asked a question... absolutely let me answer that for you.

    OK see the numbers where I get them from is not really the point here my dude. What matters is the analysis of the working and logic behind lists and lead generation.

    And yes, when I am posting a message here on BP, please forgive me that I am not going to write my posts like a lawyer would so that everyone that tries to just be difficult  can not twist words to mean something else just to be a butt.

    I have no time for that...

    I call everyone here investors because that is what they have decided to be, or try to be.

    So per this definition if you spend 3 dollars on any kind of marketing hoping/expecting a return on investment, you are an investor.

    GASP.

    So are we good now? 

    Sweet awesome.

    Glad we had this talk dude.

    Can we move on now? and get something productive and constructive going?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

     Look at this post. Do you see a sales pitch? Look at all my other posts.  I often yell out loud "DO NOT pay anyone for SEO services, do it yourself."

    If this is not clear enough for you, I don't know what is. But seriously man. Get off it.

    Who cares man. Why do you care about me so much. Just move on let it go live your life. It is not that big of a deal.  Really.

    Dude if you need help dominating your market (in case you are not already) I will gladly help you too.

    Get a website, and get back to me and I will give you the next few steps. You too can dominate if you just use your logic. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

     That wasn't even close to a reasonable rebuttal. Thank you for giving everyone a better peek at the quality of your mind though, so they have that to consider along with what comes out of your flapping mouth. 

    Just an FYI for ya to take into consideration; 

    I would not be so gracious as Jerryll in saying only 90% fail, the data from my experiences are much closer to 98.9%. 

    Now, if you want to say someone is not "in" REI until they have done a deal, fine, but what do we then call everyone who is spending time, money and energy STRIVING to do deal #1? Are they just nothing?

    It IS a fact that most who start down the REI road will never complete deal #1, of those who do most will never complete deal #2, those who do most never survive to year 5. I myself started my first investing back in the collapse, 98% of those who were around then are GONE, I am "the old guard" and that's talking 2009 to now.... WTF. Name 1 other industry as old as real estate where "The Old Guard" has a whopping whole 10+ years in it?! That's due to fail rate being astronomical in REI.

    Personally I believe the sky high fail rate is for exactly as Jerryll mentioned, NOT using their own brain, they learned a "system" from who ever or what ever and that all they did, followed the directions but never understood why or how that worked. Then as the market shifts and changes as it ALWAYS does in real estate, there little a-b-c plan from so and so starts failing, so they spend more, go from 10K on mailers to 30K, 40K, 100K and it's just throwing good money after bad. 

    Myself, I had an advantage, I had a decade of running companies that were sales focused before getting into REI, for me I recognized how to "sell" and what was selling and it was never the damn post card. During the buyers market a post card was a means of informing for contact conveyance, not selling. Today is a seller market, so your contacting saying "hey, you can sell your home", yeah, duh, who doesn't know that genius it's only plastered everywhere 24-7, why not tell them something else new like water is wet or fire is hot....

    As for Jerryll's credentials, when I was talking to a person who is considered the #1 expert of online marketing and digital analysis, who is famously known as is his agency, and we were discussing things he specifically called out Jerryll as THE definition of how it should be done and perfection in performance, the bar by which all others are measured. And here he is, "the" pro of pro's, GIVING AWAY his how-to.... it's Warren Buffet handing out stock tips...... Get a clue and soak it up, that's my suggestion. 

     This has been taken off the tracks ridiculously. I asked where do the stats come from, how was he defining "investors", and how failing is being defined. 

    Stats so far seem to be coming from anecdotal experience, which may not be wildly off base, but they are coming out of his ***, which he freely admits.

    Defining investors is subjective, but has been a mess. Everyone on BP? that's the definition? or yours? everyone spending time and energy looking for deals? 

    Mine is you become an investor when you acquire an asset that has an expectation of revenue generation. Success is if it actually increases your wealth. Failure is if you lose money. By including all the people who do not buy (with many of them having very good reasons for passing) in the fail category, you are not paying attention the second rule of Warren Buffett, who you brought up: "Don't lose money". 

    To sum it up again, and for the last time, because a word to the wise should have been sufficient, and we are well past it by now- I find it very hard to believe that of all the investors that own assets in REI, 98% or even 90% end up losing money, and I'd like to see statistics, rather than someones anecdotal impression.

    Most may never make that first deal, true. I've been criticizing BP for months for glossing over and flat out ********ting the realities of actually finding a viable deal, for the non-professional, retail investor. Not buying may be one of the wisest moves they can make if the alternative is a **** deal just to "get in the game", especially considering opportunity costs, and including them in the fail list involves warped logic. 

    David, if you read what I said you will find we are in agreeance on most points, simply in a different way. 

    Where is the data coming from? From being in REI, doing REI, for any considerable length of time. I do not know anyone who actually works in REI who would ever argue that it most fail out in various stages, manners and degrees, this is rather universally known information.

    I get that you define a REI as a person who actually has acquired a property and is operating it, that is fine and I agree on that line BUT for the information sake here what do we label those who have spent money, sometimes many thousands, setting up a REI business, buying education, purchasing a mentorship, acquiring a library of study material, not to mention hundreds and thousands of hours spent, what are they?

    MARKETING is the item in discussion here and MARKETING SPEND comes BEFORE the investment deal/property, does it not? 

    So say a person spend $25,000.00 on a mentorship REI package from pick-your-name-Guru-U. That Guru says "MAILERS, you MUST do mailers, tens of thousands of mailers!". So that person now spends another $10,000.00 on mailers BECAUSE mailers alone in volume does nothing, Guru-U also said get that phone system up, and pay for a list, and pay for screening, and pay for pay for pay for. Again, what is this person if not a REI?????

    Now that person is $35,000.00+ out of pocket and they get a whopping whole 22 call backs, of those 5 turn into appointments and of those 5 all 5 say "yeah, I got a stack of these things coming in the mail, your nice and all but I want to check with this local company who I looked up on my phone, there listed local, I am gonna meet with them, I saw a bunch of good stuff with them, you should check them out maybe there hiring". 

    Now what do you call that? Is that not a flaming heap of failure? THAT is the system that is promoted, THAT is Jerryll is talking about, THAT is what I am referencing and THAT is what we are trying to help the BP community avoid WHICH the BP community is vastly frequented by, and I would dare say majority of, exactly those people in varying degrees of that stage. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James Hamling:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    90% of investors fail? Where are you getting these numbers? and how are you defining investors?

    An investor is someone who purchases revenue generating assets- and a successful investor is someone who's assets successfully generated revenue. I find it hard to believe only 10% of investors who purchase assets accomplish this. 

    Maybe you mean less than 10% are able to close deals from cold calling? Still, where are those figures coming from?

     I bend over and pull them out of my butt. Here want to see? There... Here you go, glare deeply into the void of darkness.

    So you and I know damn well that when I say "investors" I am talking to everyone here on BP trying and working hard to make it. I know you know this but you want to look more intelligent than you really are by trying to push me down.

    Count and use your toes if you have to. BP is what? 1.5M stong? 1.8M? 2M?

    How many people are successful from these 2M? THERE is where I get my damn numbers from.

    Dude don't waste my time with pointless little instigations. I am not going to argue about stuff that is COMPLETELY besides the absolutely true points I am making. If you want to start an argument I suggest you buy a mirror and start quibbling. I am too busy making money and tryng to give functional good advise to help others, at least to those that want to listen.  If you or anyone else do not believe my writings,  ask me if I care..

    No please.. ask me!

    ASK ME damnit

    Yup you guessed it.. don't care. My posts are just not meant for you. Keep on fighting everything that comes your way regardless if it is meant to help, guide, or educate. You'll get far!

    While you sit there questioning my numbers,  the fact is, I am right! 

    Besides I just can't take faceless avatars seriously. Sorry.. just can't.

    Cheerios

    P.S. Do me a favor? I have no time to go back and forth with you so safe your breath and just move along. Thank you!

     That wasn't even close to a reasonable rebuttal. Thank you for giving everyone a better peek at the quality of your mind though, so they have that to consider along with what comes out of your flapping mouth. 

    Just an FYI for ya to take into consideration; 

    I would not be so gracious as Jerryll in saying only 90% fail, the data from my experiences are much closer to 98.9%. 

    Now, if you want to say someone is not "in" REI until they have done a deal, fine, but what do we then call everyone who is spending time, money and energy STRIVING to do deal #1? Are they just nothing?

    It IS a fact that most who start down the REI road will never complete deal #1, of those who do most will never complete deal #2, those who do most never survive to year 5. I myself started my first investing back in the collapse, 98% of those who were around then are GONE, I am "the old guard" and that's talking 2009 to now.... WTF. Name 1 other industry as old as real estate where "The Old Guard" has a whopping whole 10+ years in it?! That's due to fail rate being astronomical in REI.

    Personally I believe the sky high fail rate is for exactly as Jerryll mentioned, NOT using their own brain, they learned a "system" from who ever or what ever and that all they did, followed the directions but never understood why or how that worked. Then as the market shifts and changes as it ALWAYS does in real estate, there little a-b-c plan from so and so starts failing, so they spend more, go from 10K on mailers to 30K, 40K, 100K and it's just throwing good money after bad. 

    Myself, I had an advantage, I had a decade of running companies that were sales focused before getting into REI, for me I recognized how to "sell" and what was selling and it was never the damn post card. During the buyers market a post card was a means of informing for contact conveyance, not selling. Today is a seller market, so your contacting saying "hey, you can sell your home", yeah, duh, who doesn't know that genius it's only plastered everywhere 24-7, why not tell them something else new like water is wet or fire is hot....

    As for Jerryll's credentials, when I was talking to a person who is considered the #1 expert of online marketing and digital analysis, who is famously known as is his agency, and we were discussing things he specifically called out Jerryll as THE definition of how it should be done and perfection in performance, the bar by which all others are measured. And here he is, "the" pro of pro's, GIVING AWAY his how-to.... it's Warren Buffet handing out stock tips...... Get a clue and soak it up, that's my suggestion. 

     This has been taken off the tracks ridiculously. I asked where do the stats come from, how was he defining "investors", and how failing is being defined. 

    Stats so far seem to be coming from anecdotal experience, which may not be wildly off base, but they are coming out of his ***, which he freely admits.

    Defining investors is subjective, but has been a mess. Everyone on BP? that's the definition? or yours? everyone spending time and energy looking for deals? 

    Mine is you become an investor when you acquire an asset that has an expectation of revenue generation. Success is if it actually increases your wealth. Failure is if you lose money. By including all the people who do not buy (with many of them having very good reasons for passing) in the fail category, you are not paying attention the second rule of Warren Buffett, who you brought up: "Don't lose money". 

    To sum it up again, and for the last time, because a word to the wise should have been sufficient, and we are well past it by now- I find it very hard to believe that of all the investors that own assets in REI, 98% or even 90% end up losing money, and I'd like to see statistics, rather than someones anecdotal impression.

    Most may never make that first deal, true. I've been criticizing BP for months for glossing over and flat out ********ting the realities of actually finding a viable deal, for the non-professional, retail investor. Not buying may be one of the wisest moves they can make if the alternative is a **** deal just to "get in the game", especially considering opportunity costs, and including them in the fail list involves warped logic. 

    David, if you read what I said you will find we are in agreeance on most points, simply in a different way. 

    Where is the data coming from? From being in REI, doing REI, for any considerable length of time. I do not know anyone who actually works in REI who would ever argue that it most fail out in various stages, manners and degrees, this is rather universally known information.

    I get that you define a REI as a person who actually has acquired a property and is operating it, that is fine and I agree on that line BUT for the information sake here what do we label those who have spent money, sometimes many thousands, setting up a REI business, buying education, purchasing a mentorship, acquiring a library of study material, not to mention hundreds and thousands of hours spent, what are they?

    MARKETING is the item in discussion here and MARKETING SPEND comes BEFORE the investment deal/property, does it not? 

    So say a person spend $25,000.00 on a mentorship REI package from pick-your-name-Guru-U. That Guru says "MAILERS, you MUST do mailers, tens of thousands of mailers!". So that person now spends another $10,000.00 on mailers BECAUSE mailers alone in volume does nothing, Guru-U also said get that phone system up, and pay for a list, and pay for screening, and pay for pay for pay for. Again, what is this person if not a REI?????

    Now that person is $35,000.00+ out of pocket and they get a whopping whole 22 call backs, of those 5 turn into appointments and of those 5 all 5 say "yeah, I got a stack of these things coming in the mail, your nice and all but I want to check with this local company who I looked up on my phone, there listed local, I am gonna meet with them, I saw a bunch of good stuff with them, you should check them out maybe there hiring". 

    Now what do you call that? Is that not a flaming heap of failure? THAT is the system that is promoted, THAT is Jerryll is talking about, THAT is what I am referencing and THAT is what we are trying to help the BP community avoid WHICH the BP community is vastly frequented by, and I would dare say majority of, exactly those people in varying degrees of that stage. 

     Agreed. Thanks for clarifying that.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.